Issy, what methods do you believe could be effective in self defence, if guns are not an option.

//raped and/or murdered when they were not allowed any means of self defence.// What means would you envisage?

Paul,

Walking sticks and umbrellas and some of the currently available non lethal means; these are available in Australia to law enforcement personell and criminals, under John Howard's laws the victims are necessarily unable to defend themselves.
The Greens are fully in accord with the theory of undefended victims, for some sick reason.

//under John Howard's laws the victims are necessarily unable to defend themselves.
The Greens are fully in accord with the theory of undefended victims, for some sick reason.//

//then you whine that those laws are no good if people can't carry guns for their self-defence//

Ah good, I see you're progressing right on schedule there, Captain Predictable.

I note some time ago, an old man was charged with murder in Florida.
He was attacked and eventually saw him on the ground and about to cop a good kicking.
Someone with a phone had the sick sense of recording it.
In this case, lucky he did, because the next thing we see is the old man, now sitting on the ground, move his right hand/arm up in the direction of the bad guy, a couple of bangs, and down the baddy goes.
A great day for humanity and justice and especially for the older and more vulnerable generation.
Even though he was charged, it was later dropped, because in Florida, (which is dominated by retiree's and oldies) it is legal for an oldie to be armed.
And so it should be, here too!
The baddies would think long and hard before they did anything, not knowing if you are 'loaded' or not.
As for the argument that they too will start carrying guns, is a nonsense, there are those past present and future who will carry a gun for evil means, but unless you know the old man is carrying a fortune on him, it isn't worth the pain to pull a gun on him for his phone or small amount of money or credit card.
So our chances, although never one hundred percent perfect, will tilt many fold in our favour if we were allowed to 'carry'.

Nice try at squirming Issy, umbrellas and walking sticks. So you agree with The Greens, and not the Shooters and One Nation, that self defence is not a legitimate reason to own a gun.

Glad you have finally come on board.

Paul,

"Issy, what methods do you believe could be effective in self defence, if guns are not an option."

Nice try, but you ruled guns out as an option, not me.

I gave you an honest answer, based on your question but in typical Greens' fashion you shift the goal posts.

I firmly believe that everyone has the right to the best means of self-defence and that is usually a pistol.