I recently came across a book titled ‘Bull*' Jobs’. A bull* job is described as “ …. a form of employment that is so completely pointless ….. that even the employee cannot justify its existence”.

A UK poll showed that only 50% of full time workers were not entirely sure that their jobs made any sort of meaningful contribution to the world; and 37% were quite sure that their their jobs did not.

Would this be applicable to Australia as well? Are the elites thinking up make-work schemes to cover surplus people they are largely guilty encouraging

//A UK poll showed that only 50% of full time workers were not entirely sure that their jobs made any sort of meaningful contribution to the world; and 37% were quite sure that their their jobs did not.

Would this be applicable to Australia as well? Are the elites thinking up make-work schemes to cover surplus people they are largely guilty encouraging//

Yes, I suspect there are probably a lot of Australians who feel that their jobs don't make a meaningful contribution to the world. But I'm not sure it can be blamed on elites or immigration. Most of my working life has been spent in hospitality, which seems to me a mostly pointless industry. Chefs cook food for people too lazy to cook their own; waiters carry food for people too lazy to carry their own; barmen pour beers for people too lazy to pour their own.... definitely no meaningful contributions to the world there.

But as I said, I'm not really sure the elites or immigration can be blamed for it. It's not like the pub is a recent invention, they've been around since long before immigration.

Maybe some jobs are just pointless, and always have been and always will be... but people still need to survive in a market economy.

Here's what the Lowy Institute has to say:

http://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/anti-migrant-sentiment-biggest-threat-openness

We have a society that simply fails to produce enough skilled
workers in select vital fields (esp. medicine) therefore we
desperately need skilled migrants to fill in the large gaps.

"But as I said, I'm not really sure the elites or immigration can be blamed for it. It's not like the pub is a recent invention, they've been around since long before immigration".

It's not particularly about immigration; there are just too many people in the world, and not enough use for them.

There's no shortage of things or people to do, ttbn.
Some of those things are necessary; some are not. But even the things that aren't necessary usually improve quality of life to some degree.

//there are just too many people in the world, and not enough use for them.//

The Romans had pubs... it seems this is not a recent phenomenon. What on earth are we meant to do about it?

People working in the hospitality industry do have an impact, and they do provide a wanted service. They are often unappreciated and under paid. It is when you get into administration you find the really useless jobs.

There's also volunteers in many industries that do
a great job and provide a remarkable service. Be it
at schools, in libraries, local councils, aged care
facilities, and the list goes on. Making many lives
all the better.

There's always something to do. You just have to be
willing to get up off your rear end and look for it.

Agree with you FOXY; volunteering is a superb and satisfying way to fill any excess time a person my have, especially retiree's who've subsequently exhausted their 'bucket list' and are looking for fresh ideas in order to fill in their time.

I've always had a soft spot for the aged or elderly people who're not as well off as we are. So I had a bit of a look about to see what exactly folk in this genre needed. Many were nervous about living alone, due to the loss of a spouse, and the children all grown up, and flying the coop.

So I got together with the people I/C of my local; 'University of the 3rd Age' and we put together an eight week package designed for; 'Living alone, without worrying unnecessarily about Safety'. I reckon I got just as big a kick out of it, as they did. Consequently I was asked to, both lengthen it to ten weeks, and stage it during each of the three terms! I've undertaken lecturing many times before, but none more so fulfilling, than those with the U3A. I thoroughly recommend volunteering, you'll get a great kick out. Elderly folk can be so lovely and gratifying to interact with at any level. And boy, are many of them smart, smart as whips, and wise, far more so then I expected. Wonderful people.

God Bless You -
O Sung Wu!

Dear Ttbn,

Thank you for this discussion.

«It's not particularly about immigration; there are just too many people in the world, and not enough use for them.»

I absolutely agree.

Overpopulation necessitates regimentation and excess technology, both reducing the quality of life. Some may consider those workers who provide this pair to be "useful", but they are not for our good, they are there only to enable this huge number of people to survive.

Yuyutsu,

And thankyou for sticking to the subject.

To Ttbn- I tend to agree with you that there are too many people in the world and in Australia.

Foxy said- "We have a society that simply fails to produce enough skilled workers in select vital fields (esp. medicine) therefore we
desperately need skilled migrants to fill in the large gaps."

Answer- **When there are not enough skilled workers in the nation it indicates a management issue in the system.** There is currently too much politics in hospitals and health care education- patient care is suffering. Generally I find that if you break down a subject there will be a level that everyone will be able to understand- even medicine. Certain universities a few years ago created Medicine courses so that Applied Sciences graduates (such as RN's) could study Medicine. In the 70's employers used to put more effort into going to the universities to get potential employees. Nurses used to do much more on the job training this provided graduates with enough training for self sufficiency. Hospitals used to do their own training. There used to be better job security.

To O Sung Wu- Aged or elderly people are stars. It's disappointing that our culture has become fragmented so that the Aged are separated from their families and the communities where they have lived their earlier lives. In older times people used to spend their lives in one place- the young, adults, and elderly all had integral mutually supporting parts to play in the community. Mass culture is perhaps to blame for the change- once again it comes down to population and fragmentation. But there are different groups in the community for which self sufficient / supporting communities are undesirable.

//People working in the hospitality industry do have an impact, and they do provide a wanted service.//

I didn't say it wasn't wanted... just rather pointless.

//It is when you get into administration you find the really useless jobs.//

Yeah, I've worked in a few places that suffered from too many chiefs and not enough indians. One in particular stands out - a club, which seemed to have more staff in the office than it ever did out on the floor. I often found myself wondering just what it was that they did all day. For example, they had a full time 'payroll manager'. Except that when I started at that place, payroll software was up to the point where it was largely a data entry job which, given the number of employees, probably amounted to all of half a day's work if you type with one finger and take a few coffee breaks and a long lunch. So what was this person doing for the other 4.5 days that they were being paid for?

By the time I left they had bought this whiz-bang new bundy clock where you had to scan your thumbprint to clock on, except the damn thing never worked so after about the 7th unsuccessful scan you just gave up and punched in a numeric code, which was pretty much what you did before without all the faffing about with a dodgy scanner. Money well spent there - that's the danger of too many staff and not enough work, they run out of things do and start looking for ways to fix what isn't broken. Anyway, as well as not reading thumbprints properly, the new device automatically sent the payroll data straight to the software, cutting out the middle man. So now the payroll officer apparently had nothing to do... and still kept their job. Presumably they were now employed on a full-time basis to think up more hare-brained schemes with which to waste money.

Volunteers, in many cases, save the taxpayer money at the expense of those who need employment.

Even back in 1930, economist Keynes predicted that most people would have to work a mere 15 hours a week. Technology would handle the rest. I'm not sure how he could say this in 1930, but his prediction was correct. Most of the 'menial' jobs have disappeared, and a good many of middle management has ceased to exist. Yet, the 15 hour week never came to be, because so many bulls..t jobs have been created, instead of necessary work being divided up so that everybody contributes but has a decent lifestyle.

Next time you get held up by ‘roadworks’, the person holding up the ‘stop’ sign will be working for a private company. That person and his/her colleagues will have put up the warning signs - and will probably forget them and you will have to crawl along at 25kph on a Sunday when there isn’t a worker in sight. In the past, signs were carried, and traffic controlled, by the gang from the local council or government department already doing the work. Now, the wage bill has increased, and ratepayers and taxpayers have to wear it.

As an ex-public servant, I remember the regular purges of clerical staff when governments wanted to waste money on something else. Big payouts to encourage people to go. Afterwards, the workload did not change, and the staff left behind DID NOT have to work harder. And this happened many times during my working life. Public service employment, in the main, just covers up real unemployment figures. There is simply not enough work for the number of people on the public purse to keep them working for a whole day.

Outsourcing by governments is another make- work scheme. The number of unnecessary jobs invented for the private sector tsars to get rich on at our expense is legion. I believe that people would be stunned if they took the time to sit quietly and think about the paid work that they, or anyone else, would not miss if it didn’t exist.

Indeed TTBN you have a point there. In my own industry, many of the long serving hackneyed old sergeants liked to hide in some meaningless job behind a desk somewhere the last year or two before they retire.

Sadly they manage to obtain these non-tasks because some sympathetic Superintended. who they worked with years ago owe's them. So they create this 'non-job' in their command for their former colleague.

Clearly this is wrong on two levels; (i) the taxpayer demands the best bang they can get for their hard earned; and (ii) it's a wicked waste of resources to allow these non-jobs to flourish, especially in the Publish Service. Moreover they hold down a Position Number' that would be better used, by a younger, better Officer.

As an addendum: I often wondered if certain occupations should have a 20 year ceiling on retirement? All police in the US have it, as does the FBI, DEA ATF etc. It doesn't mean that can't continue beyond their 20 years, if they are mentally and physically fit enough, but they have the option of retiring at a relatively young age if they join up, in their twenties even thirties. The Australian Defence Forces have just such a scheme I believe?

The most egregious make-work scheme has been in the electricity industry. Where governments once produced electricity, and performed every task from generation, maintenance and receiving payment, we now have many private companies doing nothing but collect money. Done in the name of 'competition' which is supposed to reduce prices, this 'competition' has seen power prices skyrocket ever since (quite apart from the wind and sun fiasco).

o sung wu,

Yes. Out with the old and in with the new. The Marxists seem to believe that when it comes values and morals; not so keen when it comes to their cushy, taxpayer-funded sinecures. I also believe that politicians should be restricted to two terms, then put out into the real world. But that isn't likely to occur either.

Would this be applicable to Australia as well?
ttbn,
I have worked alongside such people for many years & it is demoralising to say the least. Here in Qld, the present Govt has signed up some 28.000 new public servants I was told.
The only apparent usefulness from them was that they voted for the Govt that employed them.
One of our EO's spent $210,000 to shift loads of beach sand because quote"we had to be seen to do something" end quote.
All you need to do is to go to Pubs where workers congregate & you'll get some real horror stories regarding bureaucrats. The scariest part is that these incompetents are fully protected by the Govt that signs them up in return for votes. Much neede infrastructure gets put on hold because these people use up most of the funding for literally nothing in return to the taxpayer.

Public service is certainly out of control, and it covers up the real unemployment figures, and mass immigration grinds on - and grinds Australia down.

Very good thing

Public service is certainly out of control, and it covers up the real unemployment figures,
ttbn,
The signing up of people to do nothing of value for very handsome remuneration will bite us in the butt way more severely than it has thus far. Directing massive sums of public funding towards public servants who literally achieve nothing could actually be considered as Govt fraud.
The unemployed who do just as little get a mere fraction in comparison. So, how do Governments justify this massive inequality ?
Shouldn't all be treated equally ? After all, isn't that the catch-cry ?