Now lets remember our manners, it is not my intent to start a war on David.
But in a thread about unions and the lies we are subject to BD called on God and I think offered me my last chance[or Union members?] to be saved from hell!
By turning to God!
David lets review my miss spent post youth years, I was a born again Christian.
Truly thought my place in heaven was assured, hoped in all probability it would Be near the trades hall table.
I no longer believe in any God time and again men of God by their actions showed me they did not either.
But can you truly think the mums and dads, the children not long out of school that are unionists are evil?
If my defection, I prefer deeper understanding, sends me to hell would your lord truly condemn my fellow unionists to come too?
Is there just the slightest chance words such as those you used do more harm to your movement than good?
I can not remember the part in the Bible that condemns those who hold views you dislike to hell.
I assure you some of my members will pray for you.
Dave if only, if only I could believe in God, to know I just had to do as I was told and my place in eternity would be mine.
Well tried it once I must be content with the understand holding myself accountable for my every action is a start to being a better person.

Here,Here!

phewwwww.. at least it's not a WAR on me :)

Belly.. lets set the terms of ref first mate please... would you mind referring me to the particular post which seems to have got you going all hot here ?

I don't recall dangling anyone over the fires of the pit quite like you are saying, but I've been wrong b4.. and am open to your quiet rebuke.

In all honesty B, I can only 'point'... when it comes to individuals, -by that I mean point to Christ Jesus, and hopefully they will take in what they see.

Born again ? please fill me in on what you mean by that. Could you relate it to John 3 if you don't mind?

None of us can do what the bible requires of us 24/7 for the whole of our lives. If we could, we would not need a Saviour. The point of the law is to make us aware of sin, and thereby to realize how far we fall short of Gods standard. But the good news is that He himself has taken our deserved punishment on Himself.
From the point on, it is gratitute and appreciation, which should drive us to honor Him in our daily lives. Not only that, but we experience true deep inner peace when we are at peace with our Lord.

When we do stuff which does not honour Him, we grieve the Holy Spirit, and the drift begins. If we shape up... and turn back.. (at the heart level) that peace is restored along with the relationship.

Can I recommend you do a very quick search for all references to DEMAS in the new testament.

Sounds like you became disillusioned because of either 'unanswered prayer' or.. 'unholy people'.... I can't see why anyone would just 'change' from considering themselves born again to spiritual no_mans_land.

Well.. rest assured, the Lord is looking for you and I believe He is perhaps speaking to ur heart even now.

Its not about 'turn or burn' Belly, its about a Good Shepherd seeking lost sheep.

Belly...one more thing mate... when it comes to faith in Christ, Heaven/Hell...
I can offer nothing to anyone, I can just point. A messenger.. a herald.. and a weak one at that.

I come to you (and others) as a lousy sinner saved by undeserved grace. I claim no particular 'righteousness' of my own, only that which I joyfully claim in Christ alone. His...not mine.

Unionists are not all bad. I don't recall saying that mate. I will speak loudly against those who exist for the sake of some weird 'class struggle' ideology and who don't care about anything else than 'victory' for their class, rather than all round Justice for all, but I totally support any Union or unionist who is seriously addressing festering injustices. One such example I heard about yesterday was the Sugar workers strikes after WWII around 1946-8 where most other workers in QLD had received improvements, but the sugar workers bosses would not even talk to them.
The problem comes not when the injustice is successfully addressed, but when AFTER that, the Unionists (Gallagher, BLF,Mighell and company) then keep on going.. and on, and on...and on... wanting more and more and more... as they realize they have 'power'...then..(Mighell) even BRAGGING about it.

Such things need to have the prophetic voice applied to them with no holding back, in the same way that the Sugar 'bosses' needed that same prophetic word aimed at them in 46-48

blessings.

Dave I just can not see how you find my post heated.
And the thread was the one saying we are unionists not outlaws.
In a great deal of threads I have put my view a difference exists union to union.
In no way is this an attempt to undermine any union, or to fail to understand that difference is not always wrong.
I like you live in todays world, it is time wasting to convict me or unions for actions decades old.
I do not hold you in contempt David for your views, but am troubled that you often in your Gods name, seem to direct others.
May I say my dream for unions is not a right of center well behaved bosses tool.
But I proudly am forecasting a brand new unionism, one winning with honest lets sit down and talk policy's.
And you will not hear me defending idiots who by actions that shame unionism harm my movement.
David lets leave that past that is so often used to flog unions in the past.
Or bring the dreadful past of the worst bosses into the light too, some products of unwed parents did dreadful things to workers then and now.
I will not waste my time quoting your Bible I will not highlight American Christianity in its most often seen form.
And will continue forever to say to each new member I WILL NEVER LET YOU DOWN!
If I do not then I have done what I think is important in my life.
Being a union member is no different than insuring your car, or your house, after all you may not need it but you can not insure your car after you crash it can you?
John Howard's lies and the total lack of understanding of my proud movement will not change the fact unions gave Australia our living standards and life style.
Maybe more often than you think we gave that fair go mate too.

Hi Belly
mate..ur confusing me, I didn't find your post in the least bit heated. I just scanned my last 2 posts, and can't find my suggesting yours was.......

I don't find myself in disagreement with you about the value in some cases of organized labor, but the only reason labor would need to organize, is as a 'reaction' to unfairness. Who are the unfair ? Why its those with the money and power of course.

So, there is no dispute about that.

My position is as follows:

Employers with power can be as bad as unions with power. "Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So, the starting point clearly is 'employers who are unfair', this then breeds 'organized labor' which in turn generates conflict, and sometimes beneficial change.

What I suggest is that we seek an inner renewal of our whole society from the top to the bottom, and embrace values which will exclude the neccessity of organized labor. I.e... fairness and justice and a true fair go.

UNfortunately, one mans' fair go is another mans 'I gave them an inch and they wanted a mile' so in the dynamics of human interaction, seldom do we all agree on what is 'fair' due to greed. (on both sides)