Now lets remember our manners, it is not my intent to start a war on David.
But in a thread about unions and the lies we are subject to BD called on God and I think offered me my last chance[or Union members?] to be saved from hell!
By turning to God!
David lets review my miss spent post youth years, I was a born again Christian.
Truly thought my place in heaven was assured, hoped in all probability it would Be near the trades hall table.
I no longer believe in any God time and again men of God by their actions showed me they did not either.
But can you truly think the mums and dads, the children not long out of school that are unionists are evil?
If my defection, I prefer deeper understanding, sends me to hell would your lord truly condemn my fellow unionists to come too?
Is there just the slightest chance words such as those you used do more harm to your movement than good?
I can not remember the part in the Bible that condemns those who hold views you dislike to hell.
I assure you some of my members will pray for you.
Dave if only, if only I could believe in God, to know I just had to do as I was told and my place in eternity would be mine.
Well tried it once I must be content with the understand holding myself accountable for my every action is a start to being a better person.

Here,Here!

phewwwww.. at least it's not a WAR on me :)

Belly.. lets set the terms of ref first mate please... would you mind referring me to the particular post which seems to have got you going all hot here ?

I don't recall dangling anyone over the fires of the pit quite like you are saying, but I've been wrong b4.. and am open to your quiet rebuke.

In all honesty B, I can only 'point'... when it comes to individuals, -by that I mean point to Christ Jesus, and hopefully they will take in what they see.

Born again ? please fill me in on what you mean by that. Could you relate it to John 3 if you don't mind?

None of us can do what the bible requires of us 24/7 for the whole of our lives. If we could, we would not need a Saviour. The point of the law is to make us aware of sin, and thereby to realize how far we fall short of Gods standard. But the good news is that He himself has taken our deserved punishment on Himself.
From the point on, it is gratitute and appreciation, which should drive us to honor Him in our daily lives. Not only that, but we experience true deep inner peace when we are at peace with our Lord.

When we do stuff which does not honour Him, we grieve the Holy Spirit, and the drift begins. If we shape up... and turn back.. (at the heart level) that peace is restored along with the relationship.

Can I recommend you do a very quick search for all references to DEMAS in the new testament.

Sounds like you became disillusioned because of either 'unanswered prayer' or.. 'unholy people'.... I can't see why anyone would just 'change' from considering themselves born again to spiritual no_mans_land.

Well.. rest assured, the Lord is looking for you and I believe He is perhaps speaking to ur heart even now.

Its not about 'turn or burn' Belly, its about a Good Shepherd seeking lost sheep.

Belly...one more thing mate... when it comes to faith in Christ, Heaven/Hell...
I can offer nothing to anyone, I can just point. A messenger.. a herald.. and a weak one at that.

I come to you (and others) as a lousy sinner saved by undeserved grace. I claim no particular 'righteousness' of my own, only that which I joyfully claim in Christ alone. His...not mine.

Unionists are not all bad. I don't recall saying that mate. I will speak loudly against those who exist for the sake of some weird 'class struggle' ideology and who don't care about anything else than 'victory' for their class, rather than all round Justice for all, but I totally support any Union or unionist who is seriously addressing festering injustices. One such example I heard about yesterday was the Sugar workers strikes after WWII around 1946-8 where most other workers in QLD had received improvements, but the sugar workers bosses would not even talk to them.
The problem comes not when the injustice is successfully addressed, but when AFTER that, the Unionists (Gallagher, BLF,Mighell and company) then keep on going.. and on, and on...and on... wanting more and more and more... as they realize they have 'power'...then..(Mighell) even BRAGGING about it.

Such things need to have the prophetic voice applied to them with no holding back, in the same way that the Sugar 'bosses' needed that same prophetic word aimed at them in 46-48

blessings.

Dave I just can not see how you find my post heated.
And the thread was the one saying we are unionists not outlaws.
In a great deal of threads I have put my view a difference exists union to union.
In no way is this an attempt to undermine any union, or to fail to understand that difference is not always wrong.
I like you live in todays world, it is time wasting to convict me or unions for actions decades old.
I do not hold you in contempt David for your views, but am troubled that you often in your Gods name, seem to direct others.
May I say my dream for unions is not a right of center well behaved bosses tool.
But I proudly am forecasting a brand new unionism, one winning with honest lets sit down and talk policy's.
And you will not hear me defending idiots who by actions that shame unionism harm my movement.
David lets leave that past that is so often used to flog unions in the past.
Or bring the dreadful past of the worst bosses into the light too, some products of unwed parents did dreadful things to workers then and now.
I will not waste my time quoting your Bible I will not highlight American Christianity in its most often seen form.
And will continue forever to say to each new member I WILL NEVER LET YOU DOWN!
If I do not then I have done what I think is important in my life.
Being a union member is no different than insuring your car, or your house, after all you may not need it but you can not insure your car after you crash it can you?
John Howard's lies and the total lack of understanding of my proud movement will not change the fact unions gave Australia our living standards and life style.
Maybe more often than you think we gave that fair go mate too.

Hi Belly
mate..ur confusing me, I didn't find your post in the least bit heated. I just scanned my last 2 posts, and can't find my suggesting yours was.......

I don't find myself in disagreement with you about the value in some cases of organized labor, but the only reason labor would need to organize, is as a 'reaction' to unfairness. Who are the unfair ? Why its those with the money and power of course.

So, there is no dispute about that.

My position is as follows:

Employers with power can be as bad as unions with power. "Power" corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So, the starting point clearly is 'employers who are unfair', this then breeds 'organized labor' which in turn generates conflict, and sometimes beneficial change.

What I suggest is that we seek an inner renewal of our whole society from the top to the bottom, and embrace values which will exclude the neccessity of organized labor. I.e... fairness and justice and a true fair go.

UNfortunately, one mans' fair go is another mans 'I gave them an inch and they wanted a mile' so in the dynamics of human interaction, seldom do we all agree on what is 'fair' due to greed. (on both sides)

Gday BD in your first reply to my thread you asked what post of yours had got me all hot? did you not?
Unions are not all saints but why is it you can find our worst offenders but question that some on the bosses side are as bad or worse?
Saturday Member rang me, no weekends free for a worth while official.
His boss, working for one of south east Asia's leading civil contractors, had spoke.
Rain has put the job back boss said, under your EBA we are entitled to work you reasonable overtime.
This will include the next three rostered days off!
Workers who go home for that weekend only denied that right!
Workers who work 5 11 hour days told it is not enough.
RDO,s that in the EBA are not movable in one case and can change only by agreement from both sides ordered to be worked .
No David day to day unionism is not picketing factory's, not warfare mate it s defending the right for men up to 500 klm from wife and kids to go home for one weekend of month.

Hi Belly
yep..I saw it (where I said I thought you had become a bit hot :) no biggy. But after all.. you did mention 'not quite war' on me and you made a special post bearing my name, so I figured you had a bit of a bee in your bonnet.

Well.. dialogue sorts all that stuff out as shown here.

Yes..on the day to day things you mentioned, and those specific incidents, I do see your point on the need for a means of redress.
In the RAAF we had a 'form' (we almost had a 'form' to goto the loo) called a PP207 "Redress of Grievance"

On the loss of RDO's I imagine they were paid for the time anyway, but I'd be looking to find a way of working out alternative time off from the boss, I can't imagine he is totally devoid of reason.
I do understand how much pressure there can be on bosses at times, it can be so much that the whole future of the company can depend on pushing the boundaries a bit. For example, if the company will be fined or penalized (MEGAfines) for not making a deadline, then they won't be very sypathetic to a worker they are depending on, and who in turn depends on the on going-ness of the company for his every livelihood.

I didn't question that bosses were guilty of shameful practices, I UNDERlined it..and described how the prophets of the Old Testament spoke most harshly to the 'Boss' classes.

Can I recommend you read the first couple of chapters of Isaiah.. you will find a good friend in him.

Back to your early experience of 'born again'... you didn't elaborate on that, would you ?
cheers

"But in a thread about unions and the lies we are subject to BD called on God and I think offered me my last chance[or Union members?] to be saved from hell!
By turning to God!"

LMFAO That's priceless. Sounds like someone else can't separate religion and politics...and conversation. I'll just become Catholic a week before I die and seek absolution. It's good for them, why not me?. ;o)

Sorry BD no intention of reviewing my miss spent post youth, had more fun in the days before.
And st g hope thats my big red v? not last minute conversions for me.
Now as BDs God is a carpenter he is not covered by my union, but if he needs a hand?
I will try, if its a workplace issue.
Now those RDO,s workers pay for them , each day a hour plus is set aside to pay the RDO.
36 or 38 hour week, so the issue is safety.
Actual time worked on a construction site can be more than the 6 days at 12 hours per.
Those who have one day weekends want time at home.
Sometimes time traveling home is 12 hours each way, trade RDO?
no way weary workers too often become dead workers.

Stg...
a far better option for you would be to enter into the life 'In Christ' which the Bible speaks about, and enjoy the 'riches' of inner peace and healing and joy, which is the fruit of the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

Last minute conversions... won't apply if you plan it.

By the way, I didn't dangle Belly over the pit to scare him.. I simply suggest that for both Unions and Bosses, there is a fundamental problem of greed, and only Christ is the solution to that.
New people..not new laws make for a good society.

Have a peek at Romans 12:1-3 :)
blessings