http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jul/19/craig-kelly-apologises-mh17-comments-russia
I haven't had the time to analyse the full story of Flight MH17 so I could be miss informed. My understanding- Malaysian airlines flew a plane over what they knew was a war zone which most or all other airlines were going around. Malaysian airlines is known as a cut price airline and presumably was trying to avoid extra costs. The plane was subsequently shot down by accident by people involved with the Ukrainian conflict. There is apparently a history between the Ukraine and Russia and this is related to a large ethnic Slavic population that they share. In the context of the cold war the US and Russia have conflicted over annexing of eastern block countries under communism- perhaps this is some of the reason for the US interest. The weapon found to be used in shooting down the plane was supplied by the Russians. Presumably part of the global arms trade that most advanced countries contribute. There has been some recent tension between Putin and other world leaders. Trump appears to be currently engaging in friendly diplomacy with Putin to normalize relations. Australia is often considered a close ally that could derail the diplomacy with undiplomatic comments. Craig Kelly comes along and diplomatically suggests that there is a time and a place for objection and he is attacked as being disrespectful not only by the MH17 Families but also by the wider community. My question- why is this reasonable?

Well CM unlike you I absorbed every word about this and still do,at that time Russian was backing an invasion of another country, planes had already been shot down but who knew Russia was to send such a missile, in the hands of its paid butcher to murder, even if that was never the intent, innocent travelers? knowing only that, nothing more need be knowN, Kelly, unloved in his own party, should have known better,,, war crimes are NEVER JUSTIFIED

Hey Canem Malem,
Well this might be fun.
Ukraine is the standard for which I guage whether a media organisation is lying or not.
- And most of them sell narrative and conjecture on this issue.
- Deep State Lies -

It's surprising how many 'independent free press' journalists get this story wrong.
Accidentally or on purpose?

But there's 3 stories to tell.
1. The facts surrounding the war in Ukraine
2. Shooting down of MH17.
3. The facts surrounding Crimea

It wouldn't be fair to address the matter of MH17 without first getting the facts right in regards to Ukraine and Crimea.

[Cont.]
Ok, so who let's see if anyone can get the facts right regards Ukraine and Crimea first.
I'm going to start my argument by stating that anyone who is unable to get the facts right regarding Ukraine and Crimea, probably shouldn't be speculating about MH17.

- It stands to reason that they may just as likely to get the MH17 story wrong as well.

//he is attacked as being disrespectful not only by the MH17 Families but also by the wider community. My question- why is this reasonable?//

"“And if that means some of the things that Russia has gotten away with in the past has to be slightly looked over, well, I am sorry. That is the price we have to pay, sometimes, to have good relations going forward.”

Most Australians don't think it's OK to turn a blind eye to human rights abuses so that we can lick a Russian despot's arsehole.

You might understand that if you were Australian, and not a Russian troll.

I don't know what Craig Kelly actually said, and I am not going to take any notice of an hysterical media. Kelly is one of the very few politicians I would pee on if he caught on fire, so I choose to think well of him.

The families of the victims are unlikely to ever recover. But, the rest if us should get over it. There is nothing to be gained by dragging the incident out. It's done. Over - for anyone not directly affected.

Sorry, made a mistake:

//Most Australians don't think it's OK to turn a blind eye to human rights abuses so that we can lick a Russian despot's arsehole.//

Should have been:

//Most Australians don't think it's OK to turn a blind eye to human rights abuses, war crimes, poisonings, etc. so that we can lick a Russian despot's arsehole.//

My bad.

Thanks to all for their good feedback. I'll read up on the Crimea and Ukraine as Armchair Critic suggested.

I was talking to a Ukrainian military man at one time- he mentioned the Western (proto-Ukranian/ pro-European Union/ pro-West) and Eastern Slavic (proto-Russian/ pro-Russian) make up of the Ukraine as loosely being the cause of the conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

It was interesting wiki mentioned the removal of Crimea's autonomy by Kiev in the build-up to the declaration of Crimea's independence

Hi Canem Malum,
I tried looking for some old videos on the subject but I'm not sure if YouTube has deleted them and the channel I was looking for.

Lee Stranahan had the best overview of the events in Ukraine, but his channel and videos were a target of YouTube deletion policies.

What you firstly need to know about Ukraine and Crimea is this:

1. It wasn't a Civil war
2. Russia didn't annex Crimea

Anytime a news publication tells you otherwise, you can generally assume they are lying and know it, or else are such bad journalists that the article isn't worth reading.

AC- I think I understand you- and agree- but would you mind expanding on your two points.

Ok why wasn't Ukraine a Civil war?

Because Soros, Nuland and the Deputy leader of Ukraine before the Maidan said so.

Soros openly admitted to using his open society groups to effect change in Ukraine.
Nuland openly admitted the US spent 5billion making it happen.
And the Deputy leader of Ukraine openly stated in Parliament before the Maidan that the US was planning civil war and regime change, right out of their embassy in Kiev.

Prior to the events in Ukraine we had Occupy Wall St.
It was during this that protesters were trained to co-ordinate with each other.

The software was called Civil Society 2.0, and the US ran these workshops on Civil Society 2.0 from their embassy in Kiev prior to the Maidan.

George Soros on Ukraine
http://youtu.be/oSAArjOBf_c

Victoria Nuland on Ukraine
http://youtu.be/eaR1_an9CnQ

Speech in Ukraine Parliament
http://youtu.be/y9hOl8TuBUM

Tech Camps in US Embassy Kiev
http://youtu.be/bpIoBUDuL3U

AC-Very interesting. I've heard whispers but... thanks

[Side issue]
Why does our government support the Neo-Nazi government in Ukraine?

So how many might I ask did not know this? -
How many people did not know that regime change by the US was raised in Ukrainian Parliament prior to the Maidan?
More to the point is why did the droves of reporters never mention it?
Accidentally or on purpose?
Do you think protesters in Parliament and accusations of regime change is something journalists ignore?

Or maybe, western journalists specifically omitted this fact because it didn't suit their narrative?
Think about it!
Use your brain.

You want to believe your news believing what they say without question?
Look up CIA paid Amazon/ Bezos 500million towards Washington Post.

It is an extension of Operation Mockingbird.
The deliberate spreading of propaganda by government.

If your news source gets the facts wrong about Ukraine, what else is it not giving you the full story on?

AC- Yes I realise that the implications of what you were saying are pretty overwhelming. I understand now why you said that this "would be fun". You've scared me to the core.

It makes sense now why Trump and the CIA are at odds. The CIA/ US Intelligence by extension appears to be heavily influenced by Hilary Clinton, Victoria Nuland, Robert Kagan, Center for a New American Security, ... Trump probably needs to do a clean of the intelligence corps.

It seems that the democrats have made a respectable recovery since the Bush years. And have learned from some of their tactics.

This area is a little out of my expertise. I would need to do a fair bit of reading to get across this

Hey Canem Malum,
Well, Trump v's the intelligence agencies probably has more to do with Hillary and Co. not winning than it does about Trump himself, or Ukraine.

More to do with wars, (Look to things both parties support) people inside government who profit from overseas operations involving the US Government and the personal enrichment of politicians.

- Didn't take too long to find an article which supports my earlier statement regarding Ukrainian Neo-Nazi leanings, though I've read other articles confirming it, and was aware of the allegations at the time of the Maidan.

http://news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/man-tied-to-pole-and-shamed-live-on-facebook-for-wrecking-war-memorial/news-story/37ee74177acca210c4398461ba443228

Let me give you an example of how full of it the media are; notice that it's not what they tell you, it's what they don't.

Here's the CIA sponsored article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2018/07/20/whats-really-behind-putins-obsession-with-the-magnitsky-act/

Now learn more from the independent media.
Lee Stranahan the person I mentioned earlier was on Infowars as a guest.
http://youtu.be/nZe7-2mo-zs

They don't call it fake news because it's fake.
(Mind you they actually stole the term from our side, who had long been labelling the corporate media fake news already)

They call it that because they want to create a context to argue that certain media platforms and people with 'controversial' views and opinions should be banned, for the purpose of controlling the news narrative.

CM & AC,

What's this, Heckle and Jeckle trolls ? Get your news from 'Russia Today', do you ?

Crimea: by a 1954 agreement, part of the Ukraine. Post-USSR, Ukrainian sovereignty 'guaranteed' in exchange for removal of all nuclear weapons to Russia. Invaded by Russia in 2014.

There has been no civil war recently in the Ukraine - Russia has sent in troops to seize as much of the east of the country as possible.

A Russian missile brought down that Malaysian plane, killing nearly three hundred innocent people, including nearly forty Australians.

Kelly is a moron.

Joe

AC- I read and watched everything. Not sure I followed everything.

The gist as I understand it is-
Browder lied to senate committee about Magnitsky being a lawyer- he was a tax accountant that helped him avoid tax by claiming veterans worked for him.
The Magnitsky Act is about Browder avoiding extradition to Russia on Tax Avoidance and the list of "human rights abusers" is just personally motivated without review so the US extradition case cannot be held due to witnesses being unable to travel to the US.
The Democrats are trying to protect Browder because he's a large Democrat contributor.
The Democrats still have people in the CIA who paid $500M to Amazon/ AWS- Jeff Bezos owner of the Washington Post.
Many of the US government computer systems are on Amazon/ AWS- Jeff Bezos servers

"Kelly is a moron".

Takes one to know one.

Hi Ttbn,

Sorry, I forgot that Putin is now a good guy, a special friend and handler of Trump. Therefore all his actions are excusable. Pity about that woman in Salisbury and all of those passengers on MH 17. And all those killed by barrel bomb and p[oison gas in Syria. And all those journalists and politicians murdered on the streets of Moscow and in lifts.

So let's put all that behind us and move on. Putin good, Trump good, Ukraine bad, international law bad. So Kelly good. Got it. Us morons are slow learners.

Joe

Loudmouth thanks for your feedback.

Heckle and Jeckle hey...
I used to like that cartoon when I was a little kid.

Why is Loudmouth getting all bent out of shape?
All Ive done is laid out facts that cannot be argued.
Is he trying to take it out on us because he believed the narrative?
Well that's more childish than I was in the days I was watching the above mentioned TV program.

Why do people argue for lies?
Why do we go nuts when our beliefs are challenged?

Well Joe,
No offense but you chimed in a little late and made yourself look silly.
- I already posted the links -
I already established that the Ukraine 'Civil War' was no more a real civil war any more than it was a US sponsored regime change.

How many innocent people lay dead for your US foreign policy Joe?

Anyhow I was going to move onto the next part.

Calling out the lie that 'Russia Annexed Crimea'

Let me tell you my opinion.
I think the main people screaming 'Russia Annexed Crimea', are the parties who were invested in trying to annex Ukraine for themselves.
Maybe the Ukrainians themselves are upset about losing a chunk of their country; but this is what happens when you let foreigners come in and set up shop to undermine the country like Soros did.
I wanted to find a video I watched some time ago where Putin reminds everyone of the facts, but I can't find it.

The bottom line is this, after the new Ukrainian Neo-Nazi government PROCLAIMED THAT SPEAKING RUSSIAN was against the law in the 'New' Ukraine, it was THEN that Crimea voted to leave Ukraine.
In a second separate vote they decided to join the Russian Federation.
The UN has a provision for people having a right to self-determination.

Russia didn't do anything illegal.
The US started it and they are the ones screaming when they screwed it all up, which is something they do fairly regularly.
The US plays checkers, Putin plays chess.

Trump, Putin, whoever the current movers and shakers are, none of them know about little old us and what we think about them, nor do they care. We don't have any influence on our own two-bit politicians, let alone workd leaders.

AC- Very informative analysis. Thanks.

Regarding MH17:

I don't know for certain who shot the plane down.
But I do know there are alternative versions, and that not questioning the alternative versions or shedding light on them just reeks of the same narrative-based reporting this conflict is already known for.

I can't remember all the discussed versions but there's one in particular I do remember, and to me it seemed possible.
- Though I don't know for sure -

The alternative version goes like this:
At the time of the MH17 event, there was also another report that wasn't given much attention.

It was a story about a Ukrainian jet that had taken off fully armed, but returned to base with one of it's air to air missiles missing.

At the same time Putin was known to be returning from Europe in his own Russian marked aircraft.

The Malaysian airlines MH17 had very similar tail markings to Putin's plane; the theory is that Ukrainian jet mistook MH17 for Putin's.

Is it possible based on all the facts?
I don't know.

The argument that Russia did it, is a little bit deceiving on face value. What even Loudmouth himself said was that a 'Russian' missile was reponsible;
If we are assuming the plane was in fact shot down with the BUK system, then it should be known that both sides were in possession of this system (If my memory serves me correct)

The eastern separatists may have shot down MH17 for all I know.
I don't know.

But to speculate that Putin did it on purpose is completely ridiculous.
There's no motive.
And do you think the US has never shot down a full passenger jet full of people before?
It has, in Iran.

Who in the hell sends a passenger jet through a warzone over former Soviet territory anyway?
Did they not think there were not potentially weapons there that were capable of shooting down planes?

Idiots.

Regarding Bill Browder Canem Malum,
Sounds like you have a basic understanding of things.
I haven't gone over everything entirely myself.
- I was just using it as an example of how the corporate media omits things to sell a completely different story -

Lee Stranahan offers a factsheet on his website for more info about Browder.
http://populist.tv/2018/01/20/bill-browder-links-and-resources-to-understand-controversy/
He works for Sputniknews.com however he himself always says to NEVER TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT.
He encourages you to find out the facts for yourself so that you wont say "I heard this from Lee Stranahan" but will instead say "I know these facts"
He runs a 'Citizen Journalism School' on his website and used to work with Andrew Breitbart.

AC- Thanks

AC,

Wow, RT has been busy.

The Crimea was part of the Ukraine. Russia invaded it. End of.

As for maybe, just possibly, gosh who knows, that the Ukrainians may have shot down MH 17 thinking it was Putin's plane - who would fly Putin over the Ukraine ? Idiots ?

Yours and CM's posts are too despicable to comment further on.

Joe

You want to know the dumbest thing Loudmouth?
The corporate media reported on those Crimean elections themselves, then it treat us all like we have fricking dementia.

Then we have those like yourself trying to convince everyone the dementia is real.

The Ukraine's story is one where if they get it wrong you know for absolute fact they cannot be trusted to report honestly.

- And don't think a plane full of Russia military didn't suspiciously blow up flying out of Sevestapol a few years later as well.

RT's alright, but I think Russia Insight on YouTube is just as good if not better.

Neither of which are anywhere near being the main channels I watch.
They are secondary channels, the main channels I watch are hosted by Americans, I've told you all this numerous times.

- But if slag n smear is all you've got, go for it.

You wanna crap on Putin, but Russia took the South African farmers when Turnbull wouldn't. Dutton tried. Turnbull prefers PoC (Africans) and Muslims incompatible with Western culture in line with UN policies the sellout.

Putin says Russia is for Russians.
If only our leaders weren't sellouts all as weak as piss.
(Please excuse my terminology)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3556177/Was-MH17-shot-Ukrainian-fighter-jet-BBC-documentary-claims-Boeing-777-targeted-plane.html

Russian Speaking law.
http://www.rt.com/news/minority-language-law-ukraine-035/

The snipers were not Yanukovich's.
They were probably US Assets.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet

I have not watched the documentary.
But I knew about the story at the time it occurred.
One aspect of this story and which could be easily verified, and could give the argument more legitimacy:

- Failure of the new Ukrainian Government to release air traffic control data after the incident.
These are the facts I personally remember at the time of the incident.

There's plenty

I'm curious about Loudmouth 'Trigglypuff' moment.
- And if you don't remember who she is look her up -

I could quote his comment but there's no point, we can all see what he said.

Which part of this story, and I find intriguing why some people go bat-sh-t crazy over simply discussing the facts.

Does anyone still want to say it was a civil war and not a US regime change.

Does anyone question that citizens in the Crimeann region did not recognise the new Government in Kiev, and voted themselves out?

And then also voted to join the Russian Federation?

What facts do you wish to argue with?
And where have I lied, shown bias or not admitted 'I don't know' in regards to the plane?

What reason is there to act crazy and irrational Loudmouth?

'Trigglypuff' interesting word/ picture for a bumper sticker. Or you could put a picture of "Puneet Puneet- "Australian's are racist"". Memes in the real world. Anyway... always very interesting AC.

Hey Canem Malem,
Trigglypuff is the walking talking stereotype of the left.

Why do Antifa and Right Sector both have a relationship to Soros (who was a Nazi Collaborator) and why do both wear the colours red and black?
Or did I just answer that?

Bad Cop & Bad Cop,

That's the George Soros who is Jewish and was only fourteen years old at the end of the War ?

I feel slightly honoured to be associated with there Left in some way, thank you AC. It shows what a bunch of rat-bags that many those on the right have become - not least pro-Russian (or at least pro-Putin ). Weird.

Thanks for nailing your colours so clearly to the mast. Sorry, it's an old English saying, check it out with your handlers.

Joe

Yeah that's him.
http://youtu.be/QSyczwuTQfo
Look at the smirk on his face at 8:52 when remembering with pride and glee when he first learned that with wars he could just take anything he wanted.

I'm still trying to figure out why you are all twisted out of shape Loudmouth, but you've got me stuffed.
I can't figure out a logical reason for it, after all I did was lay out facts which can't be disputed.

Why are you angry at me for telling the truth?
- why did you even respond?
- you haven't argued any facts;
- you say my speech is dispicable;
- which part do you dispute?
- and why exactly are you mad?

- Please explain -

As for Craig Kelly;
Well let's have a discussion about public-shaming.

Why is it that people who simply hold a view different to say the left's accepted social agenda;
And who have effectively not committed any criminal offense whatsoever

- Are publicly shamed into apologising, clarifying the correct accepted agenda and acting like, - well
- a broken down and beaten victim of domestic violence;
- Or a mistreated pet that just pisses itself.

Why?

What do we publicly shame those people?
Instead of say publicly shaming actual criminals?
- Just an observation -

AC- Sounds like it's just a Soc/ Identity (ID) beat up. The Soc Left do what they do because they profit from it. They don't care about the truth. But yes they say that "Truth is the first casualty of war".

"Minorities have always tried to dominate the majority".

Those that "see" and want to protect the interests of Australian's need to stand up and defend them against the "Soc Left Propaganda". Standard "counter intelligence campaign"- but generally the truth suffices. It will become increasingly difficult for the Socs/Ids to "present certain perspectives as evil" when the majority understand the argument and that it's in their own interest.

"A Culture Owning Their Country is the same as a Family Owning Their House- it's not evil."

Reminds me of the scene in "Dr Zhivago" when he gives up his house to the communists.

Heckle & Jeckle,

Interesting: you're obviously playing to the Right wing here in Australia, at the same time that you suck up to Putin and Russian imperialism, its aggressions in Syria (AC) etc. If I could view Russia Today TV, like they can in NZ, I'd probably see where you get your instructions :)

So the Soc Left opposes Russian aggression in the Crimea and the Ukraine ? They've just earnt a sliver of respect from me :)

Joe

Loudmouth-

"Immigration is the biggest threat to the Australian way of life."

Overall I think the Left and Right are problematic to the interests of the Australian people and they should vote "independents against immigration in the senate" so neither of the major parties have the ability to push immigration even higher.

The left is a bigger threat than the industrialists in some ways because of "extreme left ethno-rationalism". The industrialists don't care about politics as long as they can monopolize profit from the consumption of the populations.

But the thread was about MH17.

'...its aggressions in Syria'

What in helping destroy ISIS? Lol

- I suppose you're gonna try and argue that Syria is a Civil War too, right?

You really don't want to go opening another can of worms Loudmouth;
- Not when you've got plenty left on your Ukrainian plate already that you haven't even touched yet.

Behind the Sudden Death of a $1 Billion Secret C.I.A. War in Syria
http://nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/middleeast/cia-syria-rebel-arm-train-trump.amp.html

Syrian Emergency Task Force
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Emergency_Task_Force
http://www.syriantaskforce.org

Looks like a charity right?
- Charity for war?

When are you people going to realise that you are victims of propaganda?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-15/weapons-went-cia-isis-less-two-months-new-study-reveals

The US program was Operation Inherent Resolve
The CIA program was Timber Sycamore
The Australian Government program was Operation Okra

Maybe you need to learn this Loudmouth:
UN Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of collective or individual self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

Don't go digging your whole deeper mate.
You've already dug it so deep that you can't bloody climb out.

It's a strange phenomenon.

Like telling someone their partner is betraying or cheating on them; and they then instead blame you rather the ones who lie and betray them.

I don't know what messed up mental problems you people create for yourselves believing the news without checking the facts, but don't blame me for it.

I'm finished here.

AC- You've given food for thought. Thanks. What's the deal with Soros?

Heckle (ofr is it Jeckle ?),

I've never suggested, as you seem to imply, that " "Immigration is the biggest threat to the Australian way of life." " I don't see immigration as any sort of major threat. Australia's shortfall in infrastructure is hardly the fault of immigrants, since they would be particularly prone to suffer from it. I welcome immigrants from all corners of the world, they have made magnificent contributions to our common way of life and standard of living.

Although I do suspect that overseas governments carefully select their best-looking women to come here - for which I'm particularly grateful. My $ 16.50 glasses from National Pharmacies pay for themselves every day.

Joe

AC- What's your take on the Rebecca Sommer - Rzeczy interview? It's interesting that a journalist can interview a person. Then later the person could deny their comments. Presumably most journos tape the interview. I don't think Rebecca Sommer is denying anything except that she is going to move to Poland. The story may have evolved since I last looked at it.

Immigration is the biggest threat to the Australian way of life.

Beware of Extreme Left Ethno-Rationalism- Your family has been chosen for deletion!

The Lowy Institute disagrees:

http://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/anti-migrant-sentiment-biggest-threat-openness

' Immigration is the biggest threat to the Australian way of life.'

no its not. The swamp that fills the unis and political elite brainwashing kids with marxism is far more dangerous. You turn out journalist like those on the abc who constantly denigrade the normal family, our rich British history while promoting barbaric cultures that match their own inward corruption. It is this mob who are dishonest and corrupt enough to pretend all cultures are equal, fathers are optional and that all religions are equal. No wonder they have adopted the gw religion in order to somehow show they have some sort of conscience. Meanwhile the average Aussie is oblivious.

Dearest Foxy,

Yes, I think there's a grotesque alliance developing between the pro-Russian imperialism lobby and many strands of the extreme Right, not just here but in many countries. Of course, Russia has always been imperialist, perhaps more so during the Soviet days, as you could attest to. But this weird coming-together of Right-wing extremists and pro-Putin lobbyists, with their shared ideologies attacking migrants appals me.

Perhaps they're all wedded to the notion of the 'end of days', in their own cock-eyed ways - some Right-anarchists, (even (?!)Right-Gramscians), some extreme-Right Christians, some who believe that Russia and the US can divide up the world between them (again), some with even more crack-pot ideas.

Don't worry, we'll survive all of them :)

Lover,

Joe

The Socialist- Ethno-centric-rationalist policy is similar to Sophocles Oedipus. They kill the old and take their wife. It's a common theme in history. Freud studied this sickness in human nature. Jung tried to focus on healthy people in order to understand the parameters of healthy minds. Perhaps the same should be done with societies. Study healthy societies so we can see what works. Then our societies can be more resilient against those that seek to subvert them. Under the political structures rests "the power of the people"- whatever the socialist left say Australian's make the final decision on "what is to be the right". Many countries have been subverted by undemocratic forces within and outside- and they have become enslaved. Australian's will need to make choices- whether they choose to believe the media, the universities, the politicians, the businesses, the do gooders, the "lovers". Remember what people do and say is important. There are many twists and turns.

Certain university academics (Professors Kevin Dunn, Yin Paradies and Andrew Jakubowicz), artists (Peter Drew) and others (Mark Kenny) have promoted anti-racism (those that believe in white Australia are racist nazis- interestingly Nazi's were anti-communists) and extreme feminist positions (all men are rapists- Rose McGowen) on TV that attempt to attack what they say/ believe is an inherent evil in Australian people (tail wagging the dog). The state and commonwealth governments have been buying into this dialogue which indicates the power of the Socialist/ Globalist lobby within bureaucracy.

I believe that "the Australian people are not evil"

I believe that on any issue there are various perspectives but those with power try to influence policy in preferred directions. There are fair and foul ways of doing this- but in cultural war- might is right- currently the Socialist (Communist) Justice Warriors have the power- but remember Socrates warning in The Republic. In our democracy "the people have a right to their view" and they have the right to discuss it with others but certain views have been labelled as "racist" there fore those that are "branded as racist" are attacked in public, they lose their jobs- Social Justice Warriors are religious extremists that are willing to die for their cause- they call this a philosophy of love- love and hate have always been close allies. The Art Of War teaches us that force must be met with overwhelming force- holding back only leads to defeat- to protect our identities, our genders, our families, our culture, our countries from "chaos" we must protect the "order".

We must manage our societies and correct against influences that corrupt ourselves, our families, our society.

The Socialists have a powerful army- they influence politics and universities- they have good finances- they have the support of the police and the military- but they don't have the interests of the people.

Many of the ideas of the socialists "feel good" but do they work "do they think good?"

Feel Good vs Think Good -

Heart and Mind -

Love and Law.

Globalist vs Localist.

Balance-

Sun Tzu says- Defense is for times of unsufficiency, attack is for times of surplus.
Those skilled in defense hide in the deepest depths of the earth, those skilled in attack maneuver in the highest heights of the sky. Therefore they can preserve themselves and achieve complete victory.
To perceive victory when it is known to all is not really skillful. Everyone calls victory in battle good, but it is not really good.
It does not take much strength to lift a hair, it does not take sharp eyes to see the sun and moon, it does not take sharp ears to hear a thunderclap. In ancient times those known as good warriors prevailed when it was easy to prevail. Therefore the victories of good warriors are not noted for cleverness or bravery. Therefore their victories in battle are not flukes. Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost. So it is that good warriors take their stand on ground where they cannot lose, and do not overlook conditions that make an opponent prone to defeat. Therefore a victorious army first wins and then seeks battle; a defeated army first battles and then seeks victory. Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules. Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt.
___

Currently it appears that the Socialists/ Globalists can fly in the sky while the people hide in the caves. It's a sad fact that throughout history that the mass of the people have often been hidden. What is sadder is that "Socialists/ Globalists do this in the name of the people".