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The Forum > General Discussion > We owe 45 Billion on our Credit Cards?

We owe 45 Billion on our Credit Cards?

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Truly? along with many times that on housing loans? can we as a country surf the wave of an economic bust when it comes, it will come you know, it always has and history confirms that
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 7:14:04 AM
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I don't owe a cent to anyone. I have a debit card, and spend my own money. I wiil let you worry about the problem and the idiots who don't know how to budget, Belly. You are the socialist with all the answers.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 9:34:13 AM
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ttbn, Well typed out a pithy return serve insult, then re thought it? why bother? now this not so Socialist wants to warn every one,my thought bubble while it has been around for some time/my whole life, is powered by this days SMH it tells us over 12 million Australians have credit cards, that 18 percent have trouble paying them off, may never do so, figures come from a newly released report yesterday, add those in very real trouble paying home loans, some are in both categories, at a time of low interest, and it should show every one is at risk if the crash comes, I long ago paid out my card and destroyed it, owe no debt,read the story consider housing debt and think if interest rates on housing loans gets back to normal levels, then tell me we do not have a problem, do not get me started on a bit coin collapse.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 10:44:28 AM
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I fell into the trap when they first came out. then got another to pay the first. That was in the 70's. It took me well into the 90's to finally pay them off. Then I find that you never ever pay them off. Your card is with you for life even if you pay it out completely, cancel it all together & cut it up. It remains active forever.

They even tried to Bill me for fees after I'd cancelled it with a Zero Balance. It took a lot of work to get that stopped. Apparently I was in credit for One Cent.

The Banks don't want to let you go, ever. Now I use a Debit Card only.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:11:13 AM
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I could never understand how people can buy non essentials with money they don’t have.
How could you enjoy a holiday, knowing that when you get home, you have to pay for it?
That large screen tv looks good but if you have to go into debt to buy it, then suddenly it’s not so appealing.
We have become a society of people who want instant gratification and have lost the ability to save for the non essential luxuries we want and it’s going to end in tears for many people.
Posted by Big Nana, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 12:02:25 PM
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Much the same for me JAYB but in truth it will not be us that suffers the most, the desperate need some have for things they can not afford, and to by them with credit they can not service, is going to see many in very real trouble the sub prime mortgage thing we did not see coming may be minor in looking at what may come, we can only hope not, my income will not let me splurge but by going without and saving I can get the things I want, debt free.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 12:03:32 PM
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Could this be the website of the sensible? Same here, no debt, never had a credit card, & won't, money in the bank, & don't have a credit rating. You don't when it is over 25 years since you owed anything to anyone. Pity our damn governments owe so much on my behalf. Where is Howard when you need a sensible leader?

Still don't believe this makes me safe from a future economic catastrophe. When it comes, with "opt in", bank deposits will be converted to share holdings to save the banks, getting at your money if invested could become very restricted, & super balances might become very hard to access, or just disappear.

I suggest one of the few safe policies is a few thousand sovereigns in a tin buried in the back yard as the only insurance policy I can think of. Interest rates are so low, it won't cost you much in earning capacity either.

Anyone else have any suggestions for such insurance measures we can take privately? The way I see it, the man with a hundred gold coins would be richer than a millionaire, if we become the next Greece or Spain.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 12:15:17 PM
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Yes Big Nana.

I used to run a cruise boat operation in the Whitsundays. As part of it I set our office up as a tourist agency, in the main street of Airlie Beach. We sold everything, including all our opposition cruises.

My wife running the place, used to see families come in every day of a holiday, checking the brochures, & asking advice on the dozens of activities on offer, then buying tomorrows tickets. They often paid cash for most of the week, but then moved to the credit card for later purchases.

These purchases were often the more expensive they had been trying to avoid.

I was in 2 minds. No point spending a lot of money on a Great Barrier Reef holiday, & not seeing the real reef. You can only know what it really is if you boat through, swim in, & fly over the thing, but those are the costly trips. She would see a family spend a couple of weeks average pay on credit in the last couple of days of a holiday. I used to wonder if they would have finished paying for this by their next holiday.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 12:41:56 PM
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Belly: I used to run a cruise boat operation in the Whitsundays.

Then you would know my brother Peter & Wendy. He was & still is I think an Independent Skipper for Bare Boat Charters. He's been in the Whitsundays since the 60's.

When I went to buy my first house $4000 back in 1974, I went to the Bank & they wouldn't lend me anything. they said it was because I had paid cash for everything & hadn't got a Credit Rating.
The Guy who owned the House said, "Here's a Bank Book Put the payments into that" I did & we paid the house off in 10 years. We had no idea where the guy was as he went off around Australia. One day their was a knock on the door & a bloke I couldn't recognized walked in an said how's it going. I was taken back a bit but then he said "How's the Bank book going" & the penny dropped. We went into Town & saw the Solicitor & fixed up the Transfer. The Solicitor got angry & said we couldn't make those sorts of arrangements without a Solicitor. The guy said, "Well we have & did, just do the transfer."

That's how I got my first house. No Bank, no Credit Card & no Credit Rating. Da, Dah!...
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 1:05:15 PM
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I had to wait till I was in my 50's before the Bank would lend me enough to get a block of land.
Never having borrowed I had no credit rating which made me ineligible for a loan. I was forced literally, to get a credit card to establish a credit rating. How absurd.
luckily, I always found work & was able to retire without owing a single cent. I only ever bought when I could afford it.
I always wonder how these young people who just travel & have a good time all the time will fare when their time comes to get Superannuation & Pension when they hardly contribute.
They must be the ones known as Socialists I guess.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 1:09:11 PM
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Dear Belly,

Credit cards are best enjoyed by the disciplined who are
aware of their ability to pay the monthly bill (preferably
in full) by the due date.

Of course, many abuse credit cards and end up in debt.

My main reason for using credit cards is their universal
acceptance. You get less hassles and an easier time if you
have a credit card whether its checking into a hotel of
renting a car. Plus a credit card is good for building
up and improving your credit rating. I also like the
frequent flyer miles that you can rack up for every dollar spent.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 1:56:31 PM
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Foxy, you can do most of those things with a debit card. My debit card is MasterCard and hotels etc are quite happy to accept it.
I have never owned a credit card and never will.
Posted by Big Nana, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 2:36:41 PM
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Dear Big Nana,

I pay all of the card bills in full by the due date.
I've never had any financial problems with my cards because
I plan my expenses wisely.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 3:21:54 PM
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I doubt this or any federal government holds the blame for private spending, it is in the DNA of far too many to over spend on credit,my savior came over 40 years ago,I over spent, and knew it,made huge efforts to repay it fast, $600 a fortnight, a lot of money then, in those days you had your bank card swiped and got one of the slips back, unwary I threw mine in the banks rubbish bin! never knew it would cost me $1800! the final three payments, the teller was convicted of thieving from about ten of us, paid it but left one cent over payment in doing so,got balance for ten years but never my cash back,previous lady bank manager told me the bank knew but she could not move them, not nice but? never ever again used other than cash, you can do it too, if you can not afford it you do not need it.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 4:39:58 PM
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Take your credit card on a holiday overseas, then see how much you will get ripped off by bank fees, low money conversion rates, 3.25% visa fee, higher charges for using the card not cash (not all places can you even use a credit or debit card), try enjoying it if the machine swallows your card or you need a replacement (my bank want $175 to replace a card overseas $10 to replace it in Australia).
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 5:06:46 PM
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I went to buy my first house at around twenty.
I was knocked back by the banks and the loan sharks like Custom Credit, because I didn't have a credit history.
This was bizarre to me, as I would explain that I would think that made me more eligible.
Followed by my asking did I have a record of any financial mis-demeanors?
Their response was that because they had nothing on me I was considered a risk.
Well I had had enough of this convoluted BS, and stormed out.
Being a wog, we don't take to kindly to stupidity and we don't wear fools easily.
This policy was both stupid and administered by fools.
I had been told early in my quest for a loan that if I purchased something, anything, 'on the drip', it would give me a credit rating and all would be well.
I was furious.
On my way home I walked past a department store we used to have here in Perth, called Boans.
Upon seeing a very small portable TV for around $100, from memory, went in and bought it 'on the drip'.
I had the bulk of the purchase price of the house in cash.
So the loan was a 'filler', and a lesser amount than the cash I already had.
I turned to a family member for this money, explaining I would repay, with interest, once I had a rating and got the loan.
Well I bought the house, got the loan, repaid the debt and as I had saved/earned enough in the meantime to almost pay the loan out prematurely, I did, only a matter of months after I got the loan.
Sure there were penalties, but nothing compared to the satisfaction I had in telling the pricks to shove their policy up their collective ar$#$.
I still have that little TV.
I hardly used it, well not to watch anyway.
It proved useful to achieve another thing typically stupid in this 'penal colony'.
I thought we lost that tag years ago.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 7:05:27 PM
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Is it just me, or is everyone out there OK with these mongrel banks bragging about their $5 or $6 Billion dollar, HALF YEARLY PROFITS.
I mean.
Really?
Why are we not shutting these thieves down.
We know who's behind it all and has been for centuries, and yet we just sit back and shrug our shoulders.
At least I'm out there bagging the bastards because I can tell you, when this next crash comes, it will be them who will be buying up your assets and houses for a fraction of what it's worth, (remember the US).
One of the commentors have already mentioned the next wave of theft they will bring upon those of us with cash in the bank.
He called it 'opt in'.
The current name for it is 'bail in'.
These words mean that when, yes when, we have another financial crisis or collapse, the banks will essentially take at least part of your cash and there is nothing you can do about it.
I think someone said they will convert your cash to some worthless toilet paper in the form bank bonds or something equally as useless.
Unless you withdraw your cash.
I would love to see a run on the banks.
I have decided to do a multi dwelling development instead of leaving all the cash in the bank.
At least this way, the money is out of reach of their scabby claws and I will receive more than double the return in rents as these bastards will ever pay out.
I strongly advise those of you with at least six or seven figures in the bank to give this serious consideration.
Posted by ALTRAV, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 7:28:53 PM
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ALTRAV also

Gold - Under Part IV of the Banking Act 1959, the Governor-General has the power to sign a Proclamation that compels individuals and entities to hand over all gold bullion (except for gold connected to an individual’s profession or trade) above a prescribed weight to the RBA within one month or face criminal prosecution.

The RBA, under section 44 of the Banking Act 1959, will publish the price at which individuals or entities are to be compensated for the gold bullion that is confiscated by the Federal Government.

Basically they can take your gold and set the price in peanuts they will pay you.
Con"t
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:02:55 PM
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Con't
BANK DEPOSITS ARE GUARANTEED BY THE GOVERNMENT - Guess again
the bank deposit guarantee scheme — provides up to $20 billion of deposit insurance to each eligible authorised deposit-taking institution as well as an additional $100 million in administration costs for deposits up to $250,000.

As of December 31, 2017, the scheme provided insurance for up to $890 billion in deposits.

However, the federal government has not made any financial provision to pay money under the scheme if it ever was required to do so, even though it was advised to do so by the International Monetary Fund in 2012.

During an economic recession or even a financial crisis, federal government revenue would be expected to decline substantially, causing the budget to experience a significant fiscal deficit.

Given that gross government debt is expected to peak at $578 billion by 2020-21, it remains a questionable assumption whether, under severe economic conditions, the federal government would be able to finance its existing debt, finance new debt resulting from a larger budget deficit as well as provide billions of dollars under the Financial Claims Scheme, especially if multiple financial institutions require deposit insurance.

Under such conditions, the federal government would not be legally obliged to make insurance payments to depositors if eligible institutions became insolvent, but rather it would retain the legal discretion as to whether or not it wished to activate the scheme.

According to the 2018-19 budget papers, the preferred method of meeting the financial obligations under the Financial Claims Scheme is via a new bank levy. If a new bank levy is imposed, then the deposits under the scheme are ultimately guaranteed by the customers and shareholders of other banks as opposed to the federal government.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 July 2018 11:03:26 PM
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Philip S finally someone who knows what I'm talking about.
Not only are you quite right but because you have a better understanding of this topic and the more relevant details you have refreshed my memory on a couple of issues.
If memory serves, my last memory on the topic of this bank or govt guarantee on depositors bank accounts, was that the feds said they had x amount of billions stashed away to cover our bank accounts, but it was later leaked that this amount was only a fraction of the money really needed to cover the actual amount of consumer deposits.
These bastards are openly lying to us and ultimately will stab us in the back in preference to looking after these bloody banks.
If I had the stones and the where-with-all to shut them all down, preferably 6ft down, I would, but I am not such a person.
But I can dream.
When is this karma supposed to kick in?
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 5 July 2018 12:10:13 AM
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While our story's are worth the read, and some highlight you need to have been in debt to get a good loan history just maybe we are over looking the real problem, that house hold debt is horrific, and a very real danger to the economy, add the housing debt, the prospect of interest rates rises, and the new rules about granting credit we read about, and we stand very close to very real financial pain not seen in our life time news story this morning highlights China is standing on egg shells and this country as a whole will suffer if they do, time to get out of debt but time too to know some never can
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 5 July 2018 6:15:11 AM
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if and it may well be true, as said in this mornings press experts are saying we are in a slow moving credit squeeze right now, this topic will impact harshly soon
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 5 July 2018 12:26:29 PM
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Philip S,
The power of the government to confiscate gold bullion is an anachronism; It was an emergency provision considered necessary in 1959 when the value of our dollar was linked to gold. But nowadays there are no circumstances in which it would be needed, and it's probably only a matter of time before it's repealed.

The government need not put aside even a cent to guarantee bank deposits! It owns the Reserve Bank, so has unlimited credit. There are no circumstances whatsoever in which it would be unable to pay the full amount.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Belly,
If interest rates rise, it will only be by a small amount because the amount of household debt makes the economy very sensitive to interest rate rises.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 5 July 2018 3:04:13 PM
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While people continue thinking that a 'budget' is a small Australian parrot, they will continue to sink deeper and deeper into debt.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 5 July 2018 3:24:45 PM
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Aidan Quote "it's probably only a matter of time before it's repealed."

How much are you willing to bet on that statement?

Quote "The government need not put aside even a cent to guarantee bank deposits! It owns the Reserve Bank, so has unlimited credit. There are no circumstances whatsoever in which it would be unable to pay the full amount."

If no other country accepts your currency at a reasonable conversion rate "unlimited credit" buys you NOTHING.

example Zimbabwe
On 1 August 2008, the Zimbabwe dollar was redenominated by removing 10 zeroes and ZWD 10 billion became 1 dollar after the redenomination. On 16 January 2009, Zimbabwe issued a ZWD100 trillion bill (100,000,000,000,000 ZWD). A roll of toilet paper in Zimbabwe costs $145,750, which is about 69 American cents.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 5 July 2018 4:34:11 PM
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Well my thoughts are not just a late comer on this issue, can we agree personal debt has nothing to do with the government? and can we say without much doubt if China catches a cold our country will get the flue? America post sub prime, took measures to start, seeing it could not take place again, then reversed them,world trade is under some level of threat, should it plunge much goes with it,housing, China has taken steps that result in our city housing prices dropping, by about 4 percent this year, in a tightening credit market that drop could become double figures, we, surely, understand some of those in difficulty paying off their credit cards are the same people exposed to any housing loan interest rate rise?we need to stop thinking it will be ok and if we can get our personal debt down
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 5 July 2018 4:44:28 PM
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Philip S,
Considering the "probably" and the unlimited timeframe, any amount - though I doubt anyone would be willing to bet against me in those circumstances!

Australia only guarantees bank deposits that are in Australian dollars. Unlimited credit buys you as much of your own currency as you need, whether or not others are willing to accept it. But as the value of the Australian dollar is set by the market, others will always be willing to accept it.

Contrast this with Zimbabwe where the currency value was set by the government not the market. The government tried to hold the currency value way above the market value but didn't have the resources to keep doing so and it collapsed. The same thing has since happened in Venezuela.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 5 July 2018 5:07:47 PM
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Aiden Most things in Australia are sourced and produced in other countries, good luck trying to purchase those things in Australia with a currency that could be potentially worth less or worthless depending on how much monopoly money the Government produces.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 5 July 2018 6:21:11 PM
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I come from a historical direction.
And that is, the govt will not help the consumer.
It can own anything it wants, but as long as they are puppets to the Biderberg Group, Mr Turncoat will not hesitate to favour the banks when the crunch comes.
We will get some pathetic snake oil story that the banks will sell us some rubbish bonds and that should keep us or our money safe and secure.
If you believe a word of what these thieves tell us, you must have been asleep at the wheel for the last 100 years.
Remember, Glass-Steagall is an absolute 'must have', to stop the banks from stealing our money.
When the excrement hits the fan, and it will, we will be the losers.
Not those in debt.
The banks don't want debt, they want cash.
It will be just like the school bullies.
Whilst two bullies restrain you the third is rifling through your pockets for your lunch money.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 5 July 2018 7:15:55 PM
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We can't complain about our bank.

They provided us with so much help over the years.
First with the mortgage on our house, then more
recently with my mother's deceased estate. Things
went so smoothly and quickly and professionally.
Plus no bank charges. Maybe we've been lucky -
but I have to be honest. They have been (and are)
great people to do business with.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 5 July 2018 7:57:25 PM
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Foxy, you see, I want to love you, but when you say things like praising a bank, I don't know how to disseminate that.
Nearly everyone has had a bad experience with banks.
I will take you at your word because it has been your experience and that being said, good for you.
One can only look on with envy and wonder how you did it.
I am not so crass as to enquire because it is none of my business and I prefer it that way.
But kudos to you and being one of the very few lucky ones to have had the experience.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 5 July 2018 8:26:54 PM
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Foxy If banks are so good why do you think they are having a Royal commission into banks?

Yours may have been good to you but look at what they have done to others.

If a thief robs your neighbors but leaves you alone does that mean the thief is good?
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 5 July 2018 10:24:42 PM
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Philip S, it is possible that someone actually was happy with their bank, but this fact in no way dilutes your concerns and that of millions of Aussies.
I get very angry when the bastards brag about having made a half year profit of 5-6 BILLION dollars.
All that money for doing what?
I have hated the Rothschilds for decades and it's no wonder when you hear this kind of theft.
They actually control countries like UK and US.
Don't believe me?
Look it up.
I wish everyone would get out of dept.
That would be a great day, to watch the banks collapse.
AH well, I can dream.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 5 July 2018 10:45:27 PM
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I think to an extent they control Australia, bet not 1 banker boss gets jailed after the Commission tables its findings.

Simply the banks only have to threaten to cut the money supply to have Governments cave in.

There have been hundreds of cases worldwide of crimes by Banks but they make billions of profit from different criminal acts but get fined only millions of $"s.

I think Iceland is the only country to jail some bankers for a little while.
Posted by Philip S, Thursday, 5 July 2018 10:55:28 PM
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Philip S,
It's not monopoly money; it's fiat money. Its value is set by supply and demand, and the government creates a demand for it by requiring it to be used to pay taxes. So it can never become worthless. Speculators ensure that at any time it can become worth less or worth more, but in the long term its value is self correcting: if it falls, our exports become cheaper and imports more expensive. If it rises our exports become more expensive and imports cheaper. Either way the value stabilises.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 5 July 2018 10:57:05 PM
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I don't have a credit card. I've always found that my debit card has been accepted everywhere I wish to shop, including online shopping, so it's never been an issue.

Why are people so keen to get up to their necks in debt with credit cards? Are mortgages not expensive enough for them?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 5 July 2018 10:58:20 PM
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I didn't say that all banks are great.

All I said is that we can't complain about our bank.
And the dealings we have had.

I can only speak about our personal experience.
I can't speak for anybody else.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 5 July 2018 11:03:28 PM
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Bless you, Toni ("I don't have a credit card"), neither have I, ever.

All that can be said about the original topic was already said long ago:

"Give us this day our daily bread... and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 6 July 2018 12:45:25 AM
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Are we over looking some thing? if it is true, and surely it is, banks are about to tighten credit, then they must think those in real trouble may have been let borrow too much?as with the sub prime event banks then will be in trouble when they can not get the money they lent back if a crisis comes? housing can not be different surely? while we say we owe nothing others do, a GFC will impact us all,banks included
Posted by Belly, Friday, 6 July 2018 7:27:54 AM
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It seems clear I took a different path in this thread, we have all but agreed we do not use cards and spend within our means, as we had no part to play in Americas sub Prime event that bought about the GFC, however we all felt that, less here than is some EU country's that have not yet recovered. long long ago we spoke of a housing bubble here, it did not, or has not yet, come, but it will history shows us it will, we will revisit this theme hopefully untouched by it, but it is time in my view to do any thing in your power to get debt down
Posted by Belly, Friday, 6 July 2018 4:38:43 PM
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Belly, Another reason I dislike Australia, is as you have pointed out and I think everyone knows, the elephant in the room, is another crash.
In the US, the housing finance terms of reference is basically, if you can't afford to repay your housing loan, you can choose to hand back the title and opt out of the loan.
I don't know of any penalty other than you walk away without any further commitment to that loan, but the bank or loan company now owns the house and whatever money you have sunk into it up until that day. In Aus, we do it differently because we have remnants of the convicts which is inbred in all generations since colonisation.
And that is, when an Aussie can't afford the house repayments and decides to hand the title over to the bank, because they're going to foreclose on him anyway, The bank says OK we will sell/auction your house off and you will still have to pay off the difference between what you owe and what we get for your house.
Now I don't know if these two scenarios are still current practices but that's what it was like.
Making the US, a much better, fairer and honest place to live by any stretch.
Aussies still had a noose around their necks.
Granted less than before but still a noose.
The other unbelievable thing about the US was that when the GFC hit and all these house titles ended up with the banks.
The Shires still wanted their rates and services paid for.
The banks found themselves in all kinds of bother, so they ended up handing over the title to these houses to the Shires.
The Shires realising they were not getting any more revenue from these houses, put them up for sale for what they owed them in rates.
People I know bought 20, 30, even 40 odd houses.
The prices ranged from say a few hundred (7-800) dollars to a few thousand (2-3000).
The new owners refurbished some and rented them out and just sat on the rest.
Posted by ALTRAV, Friday, 6 July 2018 6:49:34 PM
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Aidan - Maybe you are wrong I did a search for Monopoly and got some pictures of money, but when I did a search for Fiat all I got was hundreds of pictures of cars.

Are you sure you have your information correct?
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 6 July 2018 6:58:16 PM
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Philip S,
Yes I'm sure. The fact that Fiat is a large Italian manufacturer that makes a lot of cars doesn't alter the fact that fiat money is the type of money most widely used today.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Belly,
It's unlikely the banks will tighten credit to existing customers any time soon, but don't be surprised if they're lending less to new customers.

___________________________________________________________________________________

ALTRAV,
AIUI yes, those scenarios arrested common practice. The way they do things here, there's less risk to the banks...
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 6 July 2018 11:07:11 PM
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Aidan, Less risk to the banks?
Really?
Why would anyone give a shite about the whether a bank or banks collapse.
People don't realise it but the woes of the world are directly linked to and as a result of the banks.
More specifically, the Rothschilds.
They once threatened the US with starting and financing a war against them if they did not renew some age old lease about something to do with money.
They financed the poms and the French in the Napoleonic war with England.
They conned Britain into believing they had lost the war.
The markets crashed over night.
They swooped in bought 'England' for a penny in the pound.
Soon after the news came that England had won.
They sold back all the companies they had just bought for their real value.
They still run 'The City of London' (or England)today.
They are filth and through their brainchild, the Bilderberg Group, are working towards a 'new world order'.
Look it up.
Sounds fanciful, I know, but completely possible.
The first RC once said give him control of the countries money/finance and he did not care who the politicians were, or that was the theme anyway.
It seems to me the RC headed group have changed their mind about that one over the years as they have sponsored most POTUS since way back.
Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 7 July 2018 4:09:08 AM
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Aiden it was my point, banks are reducing credit to new borrowers, but are we standing on the beach waiting for a tsunami to arrive so we can say we saw it? the increasing understanding of debt, personal, not including our country's massive debt,surely warns us? a walk in the pages of our better financial news papers should be enough to concern any one knowing 18 percent are having trouble paying their credit card, and that some of them are even eating by using that debt, is confronting to me.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 7 July 2018 7:36:01 AM
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ALTRAV,
Firstly, apologies for the typo. It should have been "those scenarios are still common practice".

Secondly, a failing bank can't function properly, so it is sensible to try to minimise risk.

There's plenty of conspiracy theories about the Rothschilds. However the truth is quite different. For instance, they intended to finance a long military campaign against Napoleon, but when the British unexpectedly won early, they did buy up government bonds. Though they got the news first, they didn't con the British into believing they'd lost. But they did sink their money into British bonds as a medium term investment, on the correct assumption that peace would make fewer of them available, driving up prices.

The Bilderberg group was the brainchild of Józef Hieronim Retinger (NOT a Rothschild) - though as Bankers have always been involved, I expect there were always Rothschilds in attendance. The aim was originally closer transatlantc cooperation, and later promotion of free market capitalism -I suppose you could consider that a "new world order" as the phrase that so panics people like Runner is really broad enough to be meaningless.

There are still some Rothschilds in banking, but they certainly don't control everything.
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 7 July 2018 12:14:45 PM
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The runners of this world seem to have fallen for a very real conspiracy, such as Trump, here Hanson, and other right of common sense people use as fuel, such people and in the end deliver only more pain to them
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 7 July 2018 1:22:08 PM
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Aidan, I may not get the micro details right but over time I have forgotten the micro stuff and condensed it into a more precis or macro form, making it easier to remember.
For the most part that was also a waste of time.
The older I get the less the details.
And so it comes down to a sense or feeling of a particular situation or matter.
I may not be up with this vial families current abuses but I can say that their history has been one of the most egregiously, disgustingly greedy mind sets in the history of mankind.
They have been responsible for the death of millions of people over the life of this vial family of interbreeding vermin.
Knowing what I know about them I for one will never treat them with anything but the most disdain and contempt.
They have been responsible for wars, and many other atrocities.
You will not find an open book with direct quotes and accusations because they use their puppets to do their dirty work.
The jury came home a long time ago on 9/11.
Even the gassing of the Jews by Hitler, who some historians have traced him to be an illegitimate child of a RC.
The gassing was of the 'lower cast' Jews, in an attempt or opportunity to 'cleanse' and rid the Jews of the undesirables.
As I said, you won't find any first hand evidence of any malfeasance by this name anywhere these days.
You have to go back in time and try to garner books and info which was readily available back then.
People would be shocked if they were faced with the real truth about this scum family.
The worst being the original patriarch.
Such sway he held over govt's that he apparently stated once that they must never be audited, and that they must never marry outside their own family(interbreeding).
I would like to hear from others who have also discovered the dirt on this family.
Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 7 July 2018 3:15:21 PM
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ALTRAV,
Yes, the Nazi propaganda is so much more memorable than the truth!
But it is the latter you should be asking after.

The Rothschilds became very rich by being good at what they do.
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 7 July 2018 9:03:48 PM
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Aidan,you have to be more descriptive and impart more information, than merely suggesting they 'became rich at being good at what they did'.
As I have researched them for some years, when the opportunity arose, I found that you are right.
They were good at scheming, cheating, lying, stealing and even murder.
Mass murder, to such proportions that would have them on the gallows should they have been outed, but for their wealth and control over people.
They are not astute businessmen they are opportunistic, evil scum, and history will out them.
But as is typical in life today, people refuse to believe that their are bad people out there, because they don't know how to manage them.
And so it is that it is easier to deny something by calling it a conspiracy by some jealous or otherwise emotionally misdirected people, than to imagine for just one moment that there might be some truth in what is said.
Posted by ALTRAV, Saturday, 7 July 2018 11:59:56 PM
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ALTRAV,
Your years of looking at conspiracy theory websites hardly counts as research!

They were merchant bankers, and made their fortune by beer very good at it.

For example, after they'd informed the British government that Napoleon had been defeated, they correctly predicted the way the market was heading and bought up huge amounts of British government bonds and sold them two years later for a 40% profit.
Posted by Aidan, Sunday, 8 July 2018 2:52:43 AM
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Aidan, I'm sorry but you are welcome to take from history, what YOU see.
I prefer to broaden my terms of reference and take in ALL comments and reports historically or otherwise.
As for your take on the reference to the British Parliament.
I think you are being too kind.
As I have found, the true story is that because the Rothschilds had financed 'both' the British and the French war effort, (that in itself speaks of an evil mindset) they had to know how the war was going, so they had 'inside information' that they could exploit.
They had observers with carrier pidgeons reporting back to them constantly.
As it became obvious that the British were winning, and because RC was looked upon as the one to watch for financial guidance, he set about the rumour that the British had lost.
In doing so causing exactly what he intended.
The financial collapse of the country.
Then when news came of the British victory he sold his ill-gotten gains back at an enormous profit.
To this day they still hold sway in the 'City of London'.
So Aidan, if you think this is the actions of an 'astute' businessman, I think not.
Far from it.
It is well documented and realised many years ago that this is the actions of a devious and aggressive predator.
My research is no different nor less relevant than yours.
I am disappointed that you have taken the moral high ground in that your information is the truth and mine is conspiracy theories.
What you have demonstrated is that you have a pre-conceived stance on this family and it's disgusting irrelevance to humankind and the irrelevance and contempt they hold towards us, for the sole purpose and betterment of themselves financially.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 8 July 2018 11:45:12 AM
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The mere mention of banks is enough to crinkle the noses
and furrow the brows of many people. The thought of these
fat cats conjures up an image of corporate types with cash
swinging in their hands. They're often portrayed as greedy,
money grubbers who puppeteer the system, siphoning money
off the public with interest rates and the like.

Some people view them as the cause of many, if not all,
financial disasters. A few bad apples seemed to have spoiled
the reputations of the rest of the bunch. Scandal has almost
certainly become expected of these institutions.

To learn where it all began? Reading books on the Rothschild
Dynasty would be a good place to start. The more one learns
about a subject - the fairer one's perspective should become.
The key lies in getting all the facts - and only then making
judgements.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 July 2018 12:14:32 PM
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Reading books are too time consuming and contain too much irrelevant information.
I am a 'doing' kind of guy.
My preferred option has in fact been to listen to reviews and comments from those who have read any material I am interested in.
This way, I find that I do not have a personal opinion, but over time, a picture forms as to the subject matter.
I prefer things in precis form.
It is quicker, cleaner and just plain more efficient.
And so it is that my information is garnered in this fashion.
Not all, but over time I have found it to be the better option because with time the spurious information is set aside in favour of the 'meat'.
Eventually I begin to form an opinion, which I cannot prove as I do not care to prove anything.
The information I have learned only answers to me and nobody else.
The 'buck' stops here.
It is important for people to understand that, just because I can't quote links, (heck I don't even know how to do one) doesn't mean my information is flawed.
One thing I learned many years ago, (possibly why I went off reading) was that for every book written promoting something, there were ten written against it.
This was and still is the practice today.
So when I hear 'global warming', no they got that wrong, so then I hear, climate change.
Well again it appears that there are people out there who believe that this idea is also wrong.
I am not a mind reader and neither is anyone else, not on this planet anyway, so no-one, yes no-one is in a position to tell anyone what will or won't happen, especially when it has to do with something as immense and complex as the Earth.
And that includes scientists.
All they specialise in are theories!
Some times they get it right.
But how many times have they got it wrong.
More wrong than right is my guess.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 8 July 2018 4:55:29 PM
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I read any thing and am well aware of the two families behind world banking, and too the one percent who between them own more that the rest of us,banks contributed to this threads problem by lending too much to people not able to service the debt Foxy has it right emotions run free on this subject, but should my fears come true, and in my view only when is in doubt,many will be hurt
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 8 July 2018 5:11:10 PM
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Belly, I do not shy away from the fact that the awful place that Aussies as well as the rest of the world, are in is due directly and only to the people themselves.
The 'must have it now' brigade make up the majority of these new age types who seem to have grown up with an attitude of entitlement.
This generation have been told that they can have and do whatever they want, and they are milking it for all it's worth.
As you can guess, I won't be losing any sleep over them because they live in a welfare based country and 'no man shall be left behind'.
So they'll sell off or get their toys and homes 'repo'ed' and then get the hand-outs.
Did they learn anything from it all?
I don't think so.
So that's why I don't care.
It was all brought about by themselves, and now they will have to pay the piper.
Having condemned the public I now turn to the real scum.
The public are immature and childlike in their thinking, but I expect better from big companies like banks.
They are bad people and I mean bad.
They are worse than loan sharks, they are predators, basically they are amongst some the worst of humanity, if not the worst.
Credit card interest is so high it is totally unjustified.
And because govt's and more so ministers are getting kick-backs from the banks, (and others) they're not about to force their hand.
Many years ago, the US was not going to renew a banking lease or similar, to the Rothschilds.
They told the govt if they did not they would force them into a war against them which they would finance.
They later flipped and renewed their lease.
And this is only one of the many filthy strong-arm and blackmail tactics they have used to get their way.
Their are so many more things and deaths, they are responsible for.
9/11 had nothing to do with Al-qaeda.
I wont say who because there are some who refuse to accept certain uncomfortable truths.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 8 July 2018 5:44:36 PM
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ALTRAV yes much truth in what you say,this morning, well any morning, ress is telling the story of another family under extreme stress, because of over using credit cards ,while it remains my view they need to change and live within their means the coming storm will hurt others too, humanity lets it self drift away from reality and that reality is that we are in charge of our spending wanting some thing is different than not being able to afford it
Posted by Belly, Monday, 9 July 2018 6:50:09 AM
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ALTRAV
"9/11 had nothing to do with Al-qaeda."
Considering their means, motive, opportunity and confession, I think that statement completely destroys your credibility.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and ISTM you lack even ordinary evidence.

If you want to continue this conversation, you can identify the sources for your claim that the Rothschilds fooled the British into thinking they'd lost the war. Otherwise there's really no point in continuing.
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 9 July 2018 10:59:49 AM
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Aiden, everyday more and more is being debunked.
You might not be privy to this information, I am.
Without getting too technical, just look up the stories on google and you tube, just for some light referencing, before you get deeper and follow the links and leads they have on offer.
There is a tonne of technical info, debunking the 'experts' of the day.
There is too much material to ignore out of hand as it appears you want everyone to do, because you want to believe these are conspiracy theories.
Well look at them for yourself in the quiet of your own home and then tell me what you think.
Give me some questions and I'm sure I will have the answers.
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 9 July 2018 5:45:09 PM
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ALTRAV, I' well aware of the 911 conspiracy theories, but those "debunking the experts of the day" have themselves been debunked.

But I didn't ask you about 911, I asked you about the source of your claim that the Rothschilds fooled the British into thinking they'd lost the Battle of Waterloo.
Put up or shut up!
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 9 July 2018 6:15:11 PM
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Aidan, You know full well that the information you seek is on google.
I do not as a rule keep a record of the source of the information because it all starts and propagates with google.
So before you start bagging the veracity of google and it's information, stop and think.
If you are not satisfied with google then YOU can put up or shut up.
Neither of us have a license to better and more valued information than the other.
So because google IS a major source of education for millions of people around the world, I think even someone with your IQ can read the info on google.
So when you have read a few entries about this scum, filth of a family, then you can come back and acknowledge my comments.
So to be fair, and so that we are on equal ground, just punch into google, and go from there.
There I gave you my source, carry on.
Thank you.
Posted by ALTRAV, Monday, 9 July 2018 10:30:17 PM
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>Aidan, You know full well that the information you seek is on google.
ALTRAV, Google can not tell me what your source was.

But I see you don't know how to use Google properly! Just finding a claim on Google doesn't mean it's true; there's a huge amount of misinformation out there.

Check the reputability of your sources - after all, anyone can write a web page. Where contradictory claims are made, see what the claimants say about each other's claims. And try looking at the sources of your sources' information - Wikipedia is a good place to start for this technique.

I've read (and seen on TV) enough about the Rothschilds to know your accusations are groundless. Of course they're bankers not angels, but they're not the evil scum you portray them as.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 10 July 2018 3:17:53 AM
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Aidan, you believe what you want. I believe what I have read/researched, all of it, the good, the bad and the ugly.
I think I have enough intelligence to be able to sort through the rubbish on the net.
When I find something which has traction I go with it unless/until I find otherwise.
Let me make it quite clear.
This is a sick family with completely selfish ideals of the kind never seen before.
They are of a breed which makes Scrooge seem like an angel by comparison.
Today's interbred sick lot are a product of their very secular views and lifestyle.
They are not what you think they are.
I quite easily accept and believe that they, through the auspices of the Bilderberg Group, are responsible for all of the major world events.
And yes even 9/11.
If you don't believe me and don't want to look it up for fear of finding it's true, well I can't help you.
If on the other hand you want to know the truth, look it up or I will help where I can.
Posted by ALTRAV, Tuesday, 10 July 2018 4:14:05 AM
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we have left the subject, we do that well, and branched off in another direction,my thought process remains the same, bit coin, trade war in debt in housing and personal [card] a fall/crash is coming it may change our world, big money has big influence what they want they get, and a whole new system may be imposed on us if the crash is huge.
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 10 July 2018 11:31:17 AM
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This mornings news included one saying over a million house hunters are in trouble buying a house because of tighter financial measures,further if a rise, of just 15 points was to come another million would be in trouble paying theirs, from little things big things grow.
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 2:58:05 PM
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