Matthew Lesh (The Spectator 30/6/18) draws attention to the closed-mindedness of Australian universities and academics. He writes that Macquarie University academics were invited to a presentation on cyber security by an Israeli. Several academics declined to attend for pretty much the same reason: “the Human Rights abuses currently in Gaza”.

The Israeli, Avi Shavit, was INVITED to speak on his area of expertise, cyber security. This was apparently irrelevant to boycotting academics, who chose to “... put his religious and national background foremost in their mind”.

In other words, these academics discriminated against Shavit on nationality and religion. Against a man who might or might not agree with his country's stand on Palestine; a man who identifies as LEFT WING just as those bigoted against him do.

Lesh rightly identifies this incident as a further example of how Australian universities are “.... ostracising and rejecting ideas that do not fit the dominant progressive MONOCULTURE.”

Particularly egregious is that one of the boycotters is one Associate Professor, Noah Bassil, who is supposed to be an “impartial decider” on which projects get funded and which PhD students are accepted: but he has shown “clear bias that raises red flags”. Lesh ponders what would happen if an Israeli or Zionist Jew proposed a project. Would they be “less likely to get funding because of their background or their views”? Given Bassil's administrative position, and the fact that he can willingly boycott a speaker points to a monoculture without “shame”, “second thoughts” or “repercussions”.

The boycott was not “completely unanimous”, and one senior lecturer, declaring his opposition to the boycott pointed out, that it showed a lack of ethical leadership, was “self-indulgent moral posturing which diminishes our University's reputation”. He will be attending the talk on cyber security

Holding opinions is one thing, acting on them is quite another.
Cleansing of political opposition in uni lecture halls, is not educational.
The whole spectrum of education has become narrow minded; but the culmination of this phenomenon is at its most disturbing, when university lecturers can hold sway with personal opinion, aimed at silencing any oppositional rumblings.

Matthew Lesh is a former Director of the Australasian
Union of Jewish Students (AUJS) and does have his own
axe to grind.

The fact remains that Macquarie University did invite
Avi Shavit to speak. And people were free to chose if they
wanted to attend or not.

On the other side of the coin - The University of Sydney's
Student Representative Council (SRC) was attacked by the
Australasian Union of Jewish Students about student
magazine Honi Soit cover of the image of suicide bomber
Hamida al Taher. The Sydney University Student Representative
Council called the image "highly defensible" and labelled
the Australasian Union of Jewish Student's complaint as an
attack on free speech. And stated defenders of the recent
Israeli massacres should be confronted about their bigoted
views.

There's always two sides to every story - in this complex
and emotional controversial conflict. Depending on your own
personal point of view.

Too many only want to hear from those with the same views that they have. One of the good things about olo is that I hear the views of those who disagree with me. I might learn something from them. At least I can get an insight on why they disagree and where they are coming from. The closed mindedness of universities is nothing new.

Irrespective of Matthew Lesh's affiliations, the case of University academics boycotting a presentation by an expert on cybersecurity because of the speaker's race and nationality is petty and more than a little racist.

Similarly, it is more than a little hypocritical of the Sydney University Student Representative Council to feature a mass murderer on the cover of its magazine and then claim the defence of "free speech" when they have been instrumental in shutting down the free speech of others.

Drain the swamp.Start with the abc.

Shadow Minister,

It is important to make room for different views on any subject.

It is also important to know something about the backgrounds
of an author when reading what they are saying. It may give an
indication as to why they think the way that they do. Also
there's always two sides to every story as you have pointed out
many times regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And
trying to see both sides helps us understand things better.

Regarding the Macquarie University incident- the fact remains
that the man was invited. He did speak. The rest I feel simply
got politicised. Each side hoping to score points to their own
advantage.

Nothing new there.

Shadow,

Foxy is like a blowfly with a turd. She is different from other blowflies in that she brings her own turd and dumps it on posters, buzzing around in the mistaken belief that she is the font of all wisdom.

Not that long ago, she accused a conservative poster of 'stalking' her. She also intimated that the poster could be in strife for bullying her.

Little Miss Nasty frightened him off, and he hasn't been heard of since, leaving her doing exactly what she accused him of doing, regularly and boringly. There is nothing to be gained by trying to reason with her.

ttbn,

That is simply not true. The poster that you're referring to
was asked numerous times to stop harassing me. He was relentless
in his not only stalking me, but in his attacks on me. I pleaded
with him many, many times. He was also the reason Belly left.
I finally told him that what he was doing was cyber bullying and
that this was a criminal offence. All he had to do was stop.
He chose to leave. His choice not mine - and what I asked of him
was very simple - stop the bullying. He preferred leaving.

You have no right to accuse others when your own behaviour is
so toxic and nasty. And deserves the responses that you get
and fully deserve.

Put your money where your mouth is - lead by example.
Then perhaps people's attitudes just may change towards you.
But I suspect - you're not capable of doing anything apart
from attacking, complaining, and carrying on - with posters
whose views don't agree with yours.

So keep on doing what you're doing and you'll keep getting
what you've got.

Foxy,

That a Jew points out antisemitism on campus does not make it any less racist.

Avi Shavit is one of the pre-imminent global experts on cybersecurity and was invited to speak on that subject, not on middle east politics, and was boycotted because he was an Israeli Jew and not because of his views.

That Sydney Uni SRC could lionise a suicide bomber is way beyond inappropriate, and yet another indicator of how antisemitic the left is becoming.

One of the on going theories is that bigotry can be resolved through education. But one problem is who is doing the educating? Will one form of bigotry be traded for another form of bigotry? Colleges and universities have been critized for training the young to accept their form of tolerance and radicalizing the same young against anything else that stands against their progressive, consertive, or otherwise views. (More colleges being more on a progressive stance then a conservative stance).

In my opinion education does wonders on many aspects of a person's training in life, and their reactions in life. Both in work and in general life situtions. But to remove a kind of bigotry entirely I think needs a certian branch of education. History. Expecially history of your own people, your country, and the roots that they came from. With an accurate state of history, people can see the present through the struggles of the past. For this to occur though and not just trade one kind of bigotry for another the history lessons should be in depth enough to see the successes of the past and the crimes. Let your history of your roots (whatever those are) be both something to be proud by, and humble because of it's faults.

Then the issues that come to us day by day won't be colored as easily for or against people based on predjustices. From a class on cyber security, to politics and social beliefs, to a stance on justice and crime, being both proud of your people and humbled by it's history.

There you go. It's always someone else who is wrong, never Foxy. I repeat, there is no point in talking to her (if it is a her).

NNS,
Quite right. Unfortunately, it is the cultural Marxists who now have control of our education system, and the other side is too timid to do anything about it.

Shadow Minister,

We can read into people's actions and motives all
sorts of things that suit our own personal
beliefs. I am wary of accusations of
anti-semitism coming from people who do have an
obvious axe to grind and would use events to suit
their own political agendas. No matter who they are.

Be they former Political Directors of the Australasian
Union of Jewish Students or Editors of Sydney University
Students newspapers.

As I've already stated - the man in question was invited
by the university to speak. The university felt it
important enough that he be heard. Those who chose to
boycott the lecture (I suspect it was a small minority)
were free to do so. Academic freedom is after all a
matter of choice. I'm sure that the lecture went ahead
despite the attempt of trying to make a political furphy
out of it all.

In a university there should be room for different views.
Even ones that chose to boycott someone's lecture - for
whatever reason. The man was not stopped from speaking.
And attending the lecture was up to individual choice.

ttbn,

You were the one who attacked.
Falsely accused me of something I did not do.
I was forced to respond and explain.

But again - you don't care for explanations.

You only want to continue to attack and condemn.

Your posts speak for themselves..

Dear NNS,

Many claim that there's no such thing as "objective history."

In discussing historic events, one camp may call for
uncompromising indictment, while another, if not denying
may call for extenuating circumstances. The historian can
establish that an act took place on a certain day, but this
by historical standards constitutes only chronology. The
moment that a historian begins to look critically at
motivation, circumstances, context, or any other such
considerations, the product becomes unacceptable for one or
another camp of readers.

Many people are usually more interested in condemnation than
in explanation which unfortunately often leads to the
questionable practice of stereotyping people and nations.

Often times people themselves are reluctant to modify their
judgements. And continued stereotyping of any nation can
encourage "counter-stereotyping" and the result is usually
a complete breakdown in communication.

As is clear in the case of - the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

I think having Yasmin share on how good Islam is for women is more appropriate.

Foxy,

Of course my posts speak for themselves. You have made the same brilliant observation before. So do yours. They show you to be a nagging, know-all harpie who just has to put everybody you disagree with 'to rights', including people who are not even addressing you. On several occasions, I have asked another poster a question or made a remark, and you stick your bib in and speak for them. You do the same to other posters to. I recommend the old exhortation 'speak when you are spoken to'. Despite your sense of entitlement and self-importance, the rest of us are not gagging for your opinion on everything. You are a control freak who thinks everyone needs your protection from posters like me. Noone, and I mean noone, is a bigger pain in the backside than you are.

To Foxy.

What do you think would resolve the issues of bigotry, or even swapping one firm of bigotry for another?

For me there are several elements of my heritage that I am proud of. Religous heritage, national heritage and cultural heritage in other areas. But on the same level there are many parts of my heritage that throw my history through the ringer. Crimes and casualties by those I come from, either from my family, my faith, or my country as a whole. It shouldn't take a huge indepth history lesson to get to the details to humble your roots. Without knowing the motivation, or needing to know it, there are abuses made on others by each of our forefathers.

On one hand this can be fuel against me or those like me and spread it's own bigotry. Even have people of the same heritage turn against those abuses and say we are the bad guys and deserve a horrible and swift correction. But to study your own history and know things to be proud of can buffer against this. Know you have faults, and your heritage has faults, but they both have parts to stand by and say your proud to be who you are. Such a view in my opinion should curb bigotry in others because of the knowledge that you're no better. Yet still hold to finding justice to anyone instead of blaming yourselves because there's nothing to be proud of.

I'm certainly not left-wing, but I support the Palestinians struggle for freedom from occupation and the establishment of their own independent state.
I support them on the basis that it's the right position ethically, and not because they are primarily Islamic.
If it was a matter of religion I would not support them because I don't support Islam.
Normally I would oppose an academic boycott of any kind because I think it's pretty and childish; although I do support the right to a financial boycott of Israel or any state as a non-violent form of protest.
I support the democratic right of citizens to choose for themselves how they spend their money, but I do not like the idea of governments using sanctions that result in collective punishment against a nations citizens.

In this case though I don't really care what forms other countries choose to use to boycott Israel, because I believe Israel itself would freely use whatever means necessary to manipulate others nations politics.
If others do to you what you do to others, this is no more unfairness, than it is karma.

Let me give you an example. As you know, I am a Christian. As such I consider much of my heritage in my faith to be in the roots of Israeli and Israelite history within the bible. But by studying the bible I come to a harsh term. Though Israel is God's chosen people, promised great promises through God from Abraham to one of his sons and one of his grandsons; and though there are many great stories of faith and standing by God to be inspired by, there is a harsh reality to see too. These people in their history repeatedly walked away from God and even became a nation so full of sin they are rebuked as murders and thieves. Eventually expelled from their home by God.

These are the chosen people. If they can't be perfect what hope is there for the rest of us? Studying further in church history, and history of kings and my heritage from European heritages, the history has the same muddy water. Things to be proud of and things to be ashamed of. The lesson from the bible turning out to be real in the history recorded later.

In this way I think of history as a great equalizer. Showing strengths and wonders from any population of people, as well as horrible abuses from each of the same people, no matter who they are.

ttbn,

There you go. Now that you've vented your spleen
on me I hope that you feel better.
You've finally got that off your chest.

BTW: For your information.
You can check with the forum administrator -
but seeing as this is a public forum - and not a
private forum or an email site - whatever comments
anybody makes or addresses to anyone else - all people are
entitled to respond to.
Of course you may not like their comments
but you aren't obliged to read them. Just thought
you should know that.
And as you aren't the forum
administrator you can't stop people (me included)
from doing this - much
as you may want to. If you don't like this - you can
always start your own blog on the web - where you'll
be able to control things. You however, don't control
this forum.

Dear NNS,

I will repeat what I've written previously.
I certainly don't have the answers to the big questions in
life. I'm still on my own road to discovery. But everything
is relative, everything has its story, and everyone has
obstacles to overcome. Each of us goes through transitions
and transformations. The important thing is that we
acknowledge them and learn from them. Every relationship is
a gift and what great gifts I've been given by each of the
people I have encountered on my journey through life. How
they've helped shape me into the person I have become and
still hope to be.

Humans are the most extraordinary creatures and a big
part of me still wants to reach an even greater understanding
about who we are. Not because I need to know more necessarily,
but because I am drawn to the process of discovery. Of course
I have met some bad people along the way. But I have also met
some amazing souls and it is their light that fills me

Dear NNS,

Regarding history?

Always bear in mind there is more than one side to every
story. It is not wise to accept any one interpretation of
events as your only source of information. For example,
in TV westerns the Indians are nearly always the "baddies"
who attack the "settlers from Europe who are just trying
to "pioneer" a "new land."

We need to look at the other side of the story. If it were
re-written by an Indian. The whole situation would probably
be reversed and the European settlers would have been the
"baddies," who came and "stole" the Indian's land by settling
on it. It is therefore important to know who said what in
order to be able to detect the bias that the author may
probably have. Therefore it is probably best to go back
to what's called "primary sources", the original documents,
the original documents that historians are supposed to use to
compile a theory about the past.

We should also remember that historians are human beings
Their words are often wise but never "gospel." We need to
question the objectivity of what we study. We need to study
not only what's in the history books, but what's been left
out. For example when I was studying the history of Australia
I would pick up books that started with the European exploration
of the Pacific Ocean. I noticed that a significant group, the
original Australians, the Indigenous People, were overlooked.
Naturally no history book can cover everything that happened in
the past, I found the best thing to do was to pick out what
was worth learning about,and to try to find the source material
that gave the information required.

As I stated earlier - I'm still learning - and have a long way
to go.

Give me a natural bigot any day over a university produced one.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“Irrespective of Matthew Lesh's affiliations, the case of University academics boycotting a presentation by an expert on cybersecurity because of the speaker's race and nationality is petty and more than a little racist.”

Hogwash.

We boycotted white South African rugby players not because we were racist but because of the racism and brutality of their government and it bloody worked. For you to go the race card on this just reeks of you and your party's unethical, unedifying and unconscionable behaviour.

Stop it.

SR,

I can always rely on you to get it cocked up.

For starters, the SA rugby team represented their country which Avi Shavit was not. I also recall Aus being very keen on bringing in SA engineers and businessmen during this time.

This just reeks of your antisemitism and your party's unethical, unedifying and unconscionable behaviour.

Stop it.

Shadow Minister,

Why all this fuss?

Wasn't Avi Shavit invited by the University to speak and
didn't he do so? Just because a minority did not
attend his lecture - why do you continue to beat the
drum of anti-Semitism?

Foxy,

People are perfectly entitled to be bigots and not to attend the lecture because the lecturer is Jewish or black etc. However, when they broadcast their bigotry they become open to criticism.

The university's Marxist bigots and anti-Semites are certainly entilted to decline the invitation. What else would such people do. It is how their attitude affects their work with students - who gets a fair go, and who else do they discriminate against. Not to mention the senior academic mentioned who could make devistating decisions against students not cut from the same cloth as he is.

There is also their lack of interest in cyber security (the only reason for the prescence of the hated Jew), which might change now that somone has got into their emails and made them public.

Shadow Minister,

I am rather wary of Matthew Lesh, former political Director
of the Australasian Union of Jewish Students and what seems
more like a personal vendetta with an axe to grind. You
gave his article from the "Spectator" in your opening post,
but he also wrote articles on the same subject for the
Institute of Public Affairs and the Australian Jewish News,
to name just a few. That to me indicates that he's not looking
at things objectively. There does not appear to be a balance
in his reporting.

Anyway, I'm not buying it.

cont'd ...

Shadow Minister,

Please excuse my error - I should have said that ttbn
gave the article in "The Spectator" in his opening
post not you. My mistake. I'm a bit tired today.

Foxy,

I have no doubt that ML's reporting has a Jewish slant, but I have not tried to reference his opinion, only to offer my opinion based on the FACTS.

What is not in dispute is:
1 A global expert in Cybersecurity gave a lecture at Macquarie University.
2 Several academics boycotted the lecture stating the reason was that the speaker was an Israeli and they were protesting Israeli actions in Gaza.

My opinion is that as the speaker was at no point purporting to represent Israel, the boycott was predicated on him being an Israeli Jew, which is thus based on race and nationality with all that implies.

Shadow Minister,

Fair enough.

Bit tired today, Foxy. Not too tired to fossick out a Jewish connection so that you could slip in your vile ant-Semitism.

ttbn,

anti-Semitism - how so?
I have always been a fierce fighter against any
kind of bigotry and prejudice. I have always
opposed it and my posting record on this forum
speaks for itself.

And - another thing -

I have on this forum always looked into an author's
background. It's an occupational habit. All people
have prejudices but learning more about an author's
background helps us to understand them and their
possible motives for what they're writing and why.
I'm sure that you do the same when quoting from
your sources. I'm sure that you wouldn't dream of
using any AltRight sources and authors. You would
investigate them.

Criticising someone that you suspected had an axe to
grind - and pointing out their background -
does not translate to anti-Semitism.
And what influenced me was the fact that Matthew
Lesh wrote the same sort of defamatory article not just
once but at least three separate times.

Anyway, I can assure you not to concern yourself about
either my tiredness today, (I actually did the research
some time ago) or what you call my anti-Semitism.
I can't possibly be ant-Semitic. I follow the teachings
of Jesus Christ - a Jew. So I couldn't possibly go
against my beliefs.

I trust you will understand.

Dear Foxy,

You wrote:

Anyway, I can assure you not to concern yourself about
either my tiredness today, (I actually did the research
some time ago) or what you call my anti-Semitism.
I can't possibly be ant-Semitic. I follow the teachings
of Jesus Christ - a Jew. So I couldn't possibly go
against my beliefs.

The fact is that Christians have had a tradition of anti-Semitism. The Holocaust was carried on by a Christian country. I don't believe you are anti-Semitic, but the fact that Jesus was a Jew has not prevented many Christians from being anti-Semitic. In fact many Christians blame Jews for not abandoning their religion and becoming Christians since Jesus was a Jew.

"I follow the teachings
of Jesus Christ - a Jew. So I couldn't possibly go
against my beliefs".

Oh sure! You don't know that other followers of Jesus Christ, Catholics, only recently apologised for their historic anti-Semitism? That Christians have always featured in anti-Semitism. Just ask a Jew.

What's your next defence? "Some of my best friends are Jews"? That one is popular with people trying to hide their anti-Semitism. The Nazis used it quite often after the war.

After posting, I read David F's conformation of Christian anti-Semitism. I'll bet you won't argue with him because of his cringing denial of your anti-Semitism. Prefering to be honest, I remain firmly convinced that you are anti-Semitic.

Dear David F.,

Of course I am fully aware of the horror of our
human history and the atrocities that humans are
capable of committing.

But what we're talking about here
is the accusation made towards me by ttbn which I was
trying to explain to him in language that I thought he
would understand. I very much doubt if I succeeded -
but it was worth a try.

I grew up with Jewish families side by side. My father's
closest friend was a Rabbi - who used to visit our home
often. He and my father would argue endlessly about all
sorts of topics. I used to sit , listen and absorb.
It gave my father so much pleasure in these talks.

Living in Los Angeles, after I left my work at the
University - to have my
two sons, (both born at the Cedars-Sinai). I was
offered to manage the Apartment block in which we lived.
The owners of the block were Jewish and became
our friends. Their daighter babysat our
boys. We still keep in touch to this day.

Dear Foxy,

As far as I know the four Abrahamic religions are Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i. Some Jews hate Christians and Muslims. Some Christians hate Jews and Muslims. Some Muslims hate Jews and Christians.

http://www.bahai.com/Bahaullah/religions.htm

Apparently Baha'is believe that Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and Muslims will find fulfillment in becoming Baha'is. Somehow I feel hatred would be more honest.

Dear David F.,

Thank You for that.

There's so much hatred in the world.

If we can cultivate compassion for those who have
hurt us, we have the possibility of over-coming our
anger, pain and fear. Compassion is a great medicine.

When my children were growing up I relied on the books
of Dr Haim Ginott, Reading them was an intellectual
pleasure and an emotional delight. The books were rich
in anecdotes, stories, dialogue, and short but sharp
scenarios. I found them very useful, as a then young
inexperienced mother. In an Epilogue of one of his
books Dr Ginott told the story of - the first day of
the new school year when all of the teachers in one
private school received the following note from their
principal:

Dear teacher,

I am a survivor of a concentration camp. My eyes saw what
no man should witness:

Gas chambers built by "learned" engineers.
Children poisoned by "educated" physicians.
Infants killed by "trained" nurses.
Women and babies shot and burned by "high school"
and "college" graduates.
So, I am suspicious of education.

My request is: Help your students become human.
Your efforts must never produce learned monsters,
skilled psychopaths, educated Eichmanns.

Reading, writing, arithmetic are important only if
they serve to make our children more humane.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Lol.

And I can always rely on you to cock up an accusation of a cock up.

Avi Shavit is the Strategic Advisor in Cyber Security for the Israeli Innovation Authority which was called the Office of the Chief Scientist in Israel’s Ministry of Economy.

The rugby players may have represented their country but they weren't part of their government like this bloke is. A government that has imposed brutal blockades, illegal settlements, illegal house demolitions and conducted regular massacres of Palestinians.

Too bloody right he should have been boycotted and for you to try and whitewash this speaks to a depraved racism against Palestinians exhibiting as you falling over yourself to be an unpaid shill for the Israeli government.

Shame.

Dear Foxy,

The problem is that Eichmann was not a monster. He was an ordinary man who did not question authority. When put into a position where he was expected to act as a monster he acted as a monster. Children must be encouraged to question.

In my way of thinking evil lies with the Baha'i. They have the illusion that if all thought the way they do there would be peace and harmony. There is a chance for peace and harmony if people would try to live with other people who do not think the way they do and learn to accept that other people do not think the way they do.

Foxy,

There you go. The stereotypical anti-Semitic, right down to the Jewish ‘friends’

Shadow,

If you get the chance, you might like to read read “What’s Happened To The University? - A Sociological Exploration Of Its Infantilisation”, by Frank Furedi.

You will learn just how dangerous modern universities are, and wonder how they get time to teach or learn amid all the political brain washing and bullshite.

Much more enlightening and satisfying than arguing with OLO ‘s entrenched Marxists and anti-Semites.

ttbn,

Whatever is eating you must be suffering dreadfully.

Dear David F.,

I always enjoy reading your posts.

And learning from them.

Thank You.

Foxy,

I can see right through you and your BS, and I am definitely not suffering; so don't worry about me. You have enough problems of your own trying to maintain and defend your imaginery stories and persona.

To Foxy.

Be careful about a twisted philosophy that comes from either a well spoken source, or kind words with seeds of hate in their undertones.

Here's what I mean. Your and Davidf's dialogue show a respect for eachother with a courtesy and thankyous. But the direction might be an example of how universities can build their own form of bigotry. The well informed guide that places their view of hate within their other lessons, and with the other lessons the side lessons to be against a certian people gets ingrained in the teachings.

What I mean is look at the tone towards Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Baha'i. From the beginning David poses that hatred is more honest, and since then continues with a slippery slope against all 4 religions bit focusing on Baha'i. The one that so far has maintained it's own preface towards other beliefs. If you find a Baha'i your self you can test this observation I have over the critism Davidf has. I've never met a Baha'i that was unwilling to consider another point of view. Not to make everyone believe what they think is right, but to teach and to learn is a characteristic I see from this group of people as a dominanite quality.

Therefore know the counter critism and know from a different source. Or like you've said. Consider going to the source of information instead of some outside study of it.

I don't believe in Baha'i faith because of a few issues I see. But they are for the most part genuinely loving and accepting. Not fake love where hatred would be more honest.

Just be careful that a person's well said approach doesn't mean they are correct in their words. Just a heads up.

SR,

What bollocks, AS is a consultant to the government, not an employee. He has also been the CEO of a software company and CTO of a hedge fund, but this work he does for the government is just a thin veneer for you to cover depraved racism against Jews.

What next? a boycott of Israeli bus drivers?

I bet that the pinhead racists that boycotted his lecture, probably wouldn't have understood it anyway.

ttbn,

Where do I start. You again accuse me of being an anti-Semite
with stereotypical Jewish friends. (That doesn't make
sense). And, by the way - you're talking about people
I grew up with who are family to me.

You tell me that
you can see through me? That's not possible when your blinkers
narrow your vision and your mindset is so badly affected.

What came as a surprise is - you consistently rant and try to
demean people on this forum that you see to be -
Socialists, Leftists, Marxists, Progressives,
anyone whose views don't agree with yours. And then there's much
much more - but I'll leave it for now.

Then we have an "Ooops" moment when
you refer a book on universities
to Shadow Minister by Frank Furedi. This was totally
mind-blowing.

Furedi - was involved in Left-wing
politics in Britain in 1970s. In particular as a member of the
International Socialists. He was a founder and leader of the
Revolutionary Communist Party. His wife Ann Furedi is the
Chief Executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service.
UK's independent abortion provider.

Dear NNS,

Thank You for your advice and your concern.
But there's no need for it. I have learned so much
from David F., over the years that I've been on
the forum. He's taught me to question everything .
And that we can learn something from everybody.
Including what not to do.

Shadow Minister,

If you look up Avi Shavit on Linkedin you will see
that not only is he the Strategic Advisor in Cyber
Security for the Israeli Innovation Authority but he's
also the Head of the Cyber and Homeland Security
Sector and Director of 50 million dollar programs since
November 2004. He works for the Israeli government and has
been since 2004 in the Chief Scientist's Office.

Foxy,

If you look on the Linkedin he is a consultant. I worked as a consultant for a few years and in doing so headed up portions of multi $m projects for clients, often working solely for them for a year or more. I was also not directly employed by them.

Bus drivers are directly employed by the government, so using SR's logic they should be boycotted, Expats consult for the Israeli government, but they are not boycotted. AS is an Israeli Jew, thus he is boycotted.

Shadow Minister,

My husband was self-employed and worked as a consultant
for many architectural firms. (he's an architect).

So I am well aware that a consultant advises people who are
in charge but they don't make the final decisions.
They also don't become Heads of Cyber and Homeland
Security Sections nor are given positions as Directors in
Chief Scientist's offices. They are also not in charge of
those 50 million dollar programs. They consult and are paid
a fee not a salary. And they don't usually hold their
positions for more than 14 years. As Mr Avi Shavit has done.

Besides forget the bus driver analogy - Mr Shavit's was not
nor is a bus driver. But he is an employee of the Israeli
government. But on the other hand you can believe whatever
you want.

Just a thought - if Mr Shavit was a "consultant" for the
Teliban or ISIS would you defend him as well?

Irrespective of Furedi's politics, which I am well aware of, having read him for years, he wrote what he wrote in the book, and I agree with him. There is no "oops" involved, you silly woman.

ttbn, don't worry about it.
People who have to keep referring to books or seek proof, read a lot.
They absorb and sometimes morph into a particular character or view they find appealing.
Unfortunately they, like actors, are devoid of what used to be their own persona and the open mindedness that went with it.
So now having absorbed these views find it difficult to accept that there are many other views and opinions.
A lot of what is written is based on opinions or fiction.
Even history is for the most part embellished for some personal or beneficial agenda to the subject matter in question.
Just think back to Mr Howard when he attempted to change some historical details about some past event.
If not for the outcry by certain people, we would have had a false or incorrect entry or record of our history.
I wish I could remember the incident and what it was about.
Imagine in the future someone quotes from that book, but I lived through it and clearly remember the true story.
Can you imagine the vitriol, the abuse just because I dared to tell it like it was?
Well I do.
But no, the book says differently, and because it's a book, it must be true.
So don't take any of their comments as being typical of the 'real' population, they are clearly their own opinions.
Fortunately they form a very, very small number, thereby rendering them, at best, a voice amongst themselves, and more to the point, irrelevant.

ttbn,

I'm not a silly woman as you called me in your post.
Just a curious one and trying to make sense of things.

For as long as you've been on this forum you have been
anti - Socialists, Leftists, Marxists, Progressives,
et al. Now you claim to have read the works of
Frank Furedi for years - a Socialist a Left-Winger
and a founder and leader of the Revolutionary Communist
Party in the UK. You said that his politics don't
interest you. Really? Since when?

And you being such an avid anti-Socialist, anti -
Marxist?

Seeing as you recommended his book to Shadow
Minister on universities - I have one question. Have you
read the book? Because, in it Furedi asks why universities
which in the 1960s nurtured radicalism and intellectual
experimentation have now become conformist?

Furedi feels that now universities need to go back to
the "good old days" and "re-appropriate" their
academic freedom.

Perhaps you'd better actually read what he writes.

That's why I mentioned the "Ooooops." I firmly believe that
you're not fully aware of who the man is - and what he believes
in. But of course I could be wrong. Perhaps what you've
presented to us on this forum has been a facade all along.
And perhaps instead of being anti - all the things you claim
you've been - you've actually been pro - those things.
Or maybe you're a troll - just playing with us?

cont'd ...

ttbn,

Don't get me wrong. I think Frank Furedi writes
beautifully and makes a great deal of sense.
I'm just flabbergasted that you would agree.
That does come as a huge surprise. A pleasant one.

Eichmann was not a monster.
david f,
I remember as a kid when I was listening to the older fellows talking about the war but honestly can't recall them ever referring to Nazis & especially the jewish ones as being nice officers.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you for the extra information on Mr Avi Shavit.

It is likely that Shadow Minister knew this all along but was trying to divert and obfuscate in order to draw attention from what appears to be a high ranking figure in the Israeli apparatus. 'Bus driver' indeed.

One has to wonder the thought processes which leads someone like SM to tout for Israel in such a duplicitous manner.

The only answer seems to be in him having a deep and abiding hatred for Palestinians. To wish more harm and misery on them. To see them cowered and prepared to give up the very land they live on because in his eyes he sees them as not worthy of a homeland, not worthy of a decent life free from a brutal occupation, indeed not worthy of life at all.

And to that end he is prepared to endlessly, thoughtlessly, and with deep malice label any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic. He has shown a preparedness to debase the use very the word which was derived from the horrors of the Holocaust, yet to him it is but a plaything, something to be flung at the slightest imagined slur against Israel and its venal and corrupt government.

It is a pitiful thing to watch.

ALTRAV,

Just out of curiousity. What is your background?

Could you tell us something about yourself?

What level of education did you complete?

What jobs have you had? Just something to give us a
clearer picture of who you are.

You call yourself "a wog," why?

What does that mean?

Dear individual,

I never claimed that Eichmann was a nice officer. I wrote that he was not a monster but acted like one. How does that make him nice?

Dear Steele,

I've got to admit that for me this topic has now run
its course. It's time to move on. I was taught to
question everything. Thank You for your support.

Dear Foxy,

Perfectly understandable.

And my apologies, I should not have addressed that last post to you as this isn't your fight.

I will admit to a measure of belligerence about Shadow Minister labeling us as anti-Semitic. There was a time I would just wear things like that but not now. None of should have to. Now when he rolls it out I go out on my way to show him up for the racist he is. Since he seems pretty set on continuing with this discredited and lowly form of attack this may go on for a while.

With ALTRAV it is more about making sure he never feels his perspective on women is either normal or funny. It is neither.

Please know I do admire your efforts at engagement and I think most people on OLO recognise it comes from a good place. More strength to your arm.

The likes of Abbott and Trump and lately those like Leyonhjelm have emboldened many with notably less capacity to think of others. Fighting fire with fire is not the most edifying pursuit but it does wonders for easing the chagrin at the prolific natural of their supporters.

Anti-Semitic?
I transcended and nullified that word several weeks ago.
It no longer holds any power over me.
I beat it on merit.

I merely pointed out the facts, that it can mean two things, hatred towards Israel or Jews for no reason; or criticism of Israel or Jews for good reason.

Then I pointed out that use of the world 'Anti-Semitic' is 'hate speech', based on the fact only non-Jews can be labelled 'Anti-Semite' (Jews considered Anti-Semitic are labelled something else - 'Self-hating Jews'), which means use of the word Anti-Semitic is reserved only to denigrate non-Jews and is hate-speech; like saying use of the 'n' word is reserved only for use by white people.

And what do you know?
Not a peep out of them.
I'd silenced the silencers.

Mind you Israel had created a public relations nightmare for itself anyway.

Don't worry about the word 'Anti-Semitic', or others attempts to force you to self-censor, just focus on 18d that's the law of the land.
(Not that it worked in Bolt's case.)

I never really wanted to abuse or denigrate anyone in the first place, but to simply speak my mind, and my beliefs and call out stupid wherever I see it.

Foxy, I am humbled by your asking about me, well.
Italian parents arriving Perth 49'.
I was born 50', boarding at convent from age 4'.
More catholic boarding school till 1st yr high.
Public schools till 3rd yr high.
Uni Mech Eng for 4yrs. then full time in the family Eng business.
Started my own Auto Design/Eng business in 80'.
Involved with many cultures and countries all my life.
I have been in joint ventures with the Malaysian Govt befriended people like Dr Mahathir, the PM of Malaysia at the time.
Created vehicles for Dr M and the Sultan of Brunei, Hindustan Motors of India.
I have created and supplied vehicles Nationally and Internationally.
I have lived abroad.
My life has been, 'I live to work'.
I have always loved what I do and I can proudly say 'I have never worked a day in my life'.
I have seen and experienced some of the worst and not much of the best of people.
I call myself a wog because as I have spoken of in previous posts, if your parents are both of the same nationality, it matters not where you are born you're of your parents blood.
Therefore in my case, as the international newspapers have labelled me, I am an 'Australian born, Italian Designer'.
Those with mixed parents, have a different formula to describe them.
So by any definition other than the political one, I am a WOG.
I grew up with this kind of language and it does not bother me, so it should not bother anyone else.
What people have to understand is that as a boy growing up in a country that saw us as the enemy, even as a child I felt sorry for those who lost friends and family in WWII.
I came to dis-like Australia and it's negativity and regressive policies, nothing to do with racism.
My angst surfaced as a young man with new ideas and even having won international recognition and awards in the automotive design field, I found it impossible to introduce new designs and products in Australia.

continued...........

Foxy, I hope this is what you mean.
Of course there is more and in much more detail, but I don't think many will find it worth reading but I'm happy to oblige if it means I am better understood.
'Thank you.

Dear Steele,

I value your insights, your comments, and your
contributions to this forum. To me you are a very
special man. One who makes me smile on a regular
basis. I'm so glad that you're here and such a
valued part of our OLO forum.

Dear ALTRAV,

Thank You for replying to my request and for telling
me so much about yourself. It helps to know something
about a person in trying to understand them and where
they're coming from. My own background is also European.
Again, Thanks for replying.

SR,

Yet another racist outburst from you. Obviously, you have such a deep and virulent hatred of the Holocaust survivors that you mendaciously support the murderous Hamas and Fatah movements.

You should be ashamed of your inhumanity and stick to pulling the wings off flies.

Shadow Minister,

You need to work on your posts. Lately they've not
been up to par.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Pulling the wings off flies?

Lol.

I do hope it registers with you the absurd levels these tit for tats exchanges of ours ultimately end up going to. We can bang on like this every time and while it may be enjoyable in the fast food sense there is no substance just a good old sugar high.

Perhaps it might be better to refrain from using the anti-Semite label with the gay abandon you normally exhibit, although admittedly you did hold off until the 10th post of the thread before diving in this time. One gets the sense that it has become a bit of a crutch for you when your other arguments get shown to be hollow.

On my behalf I full accept that having the slur anti-Semite directed at me and others brings out a degree of pettiness.

Wouldn't it be marvelous if we could try and have some robust but decent discussions like we use to in the past.

SR,

If you don't want an exchange as we have had on this thread then starting the thread with an ad hominem as below is fighting talk:

"For you to go the race card on this just reeks of you and your party's unethical, unedifying and unconscionable behaviour."

Secondly, I am not a member of any party but generally vote liberal, because of the odious nature of the alternatives.

Thirdly, I don't hate the Palestinians and believe that they have genuine grievances, however, I don't believe that their brutal unelected representatives have any interest in a peace settlement and that their unrelenting savage attacks on Israeli civilians (they did not even take a break after the Oslo peace accord) has largely justified Israel's response albeit overly heavy-handed.

Finally, the links with overt anti-semitism and the far left intelligentsia are well documented. For example:

https://theconversation.com/how-antisemitism-slips-beneath-the-radar-on-left-wing-social-media-95608

I will avoid personal attacks in the future.