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The Forum > General Discussion > And So The Climate Change Ripoff Continues

And So The Climate Change Ripoff Continues

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Gawd ! You are all still arguing about global warming !
It is an irrelevant argument.
With the fall in the economics of oil and coal production as displayed
by energy return on energy invested over the last 80 years or so the
end of their use will precede any global warming effects whether such
effects are true or not.

Our current argument about coal fired power stations can only be a
fill in while we build a nuclear power industry.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 20 June 2018 11:16:50 PM
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The whole concept of humans affecting the state of the Earth, is a little bit of a stretch, in my view.
Unfortunately, people are flawed, and because of this and history, remember the Y2000 bug, and other so called disasters, we must never accept things at face value.
One of the reasons the CC thing is not taken seriously by some, is because there is not consensus on the issue.
If something is black, it's black.
Here we are debating something which has a lot of 'facts' but no resolutions.
Yes it gets hot, try living here in WA, you'll think summer is the result of GW.
The 'truth' is, the Earth has been cycling since it's creation.
The cyclic effect is obvious all around us from the day/night, to hot/cold of a daily cycle.
Then there are the seasonal cycles.
And so it is that we get the one hundred year cycles, and such things as the 'El NINO' effect.
I am not surprised the Earth is probably going through it's normal cycle, whether it's warming or cooling, we don't know.
What I am confident about is, man's contribution to CC is negligeable, as scientist once said in a radio interview.
'How arrogant is mankind to think they can affect the state of the Earth'.
So history and a large portion of skepticism has taught me not to believe everything you read, hear or see.
I do believe that we would need a major event to affect something the size of the Earth.
I do not believe that localised and concentrated CO2 emissions such as highlighted in major cities, to be the cause.
Or even narrower still, that mankind has been the major cause of it.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 21 June 2018 10:01:12 AM
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ALTRAV,
>The whole concept of humans affecting the state of the Earth, is a little bit of a stretch, in my view.
Then you need to educate yourself; humans have had (and are still having) an enormous impact.

>Unfortunately, people are flawed... remember the Y2000 bug, and other so called disasters, we must never accept things at face value.
Remember the scientists weren't the ones predicting the millennium bug would be a disaster. I agree we shouldn't just accept things at face value, but you seem to be accepting the absence of a problem at face value.

>One of the reasons the CC thing is not taken seriously by some, is because there is not consensus on the issue.
There is overwhelming consensus on the issue from those that have studied it. Those who disagree on anything more than minor details have rarely examined it in depth.

>If something is black, it's black.
And yet to many, that dress looked white and gold!
Even for something that isn't shiny, there's disagreement as to how much of the light it must absorb to be considered black. And things have often been perceived as black on a grey TV screen.

>Here we are debating something which has a lot of 'facts' but no resolutions.
'Tis hard to reach resolutions when powerful people deny facts because they dislike them.

>not surprised the Earth is probably going through it's normal cycle, whether it's warming or cooling, we don't know.
We do know ithat the changes in temperature exceed what the cycles can explain. And that over the past few decades, a breakdown was observed between the climate and the solar activity cycle.

We also know:
The greenhouse effect is real.
An increased atmospheric concentration of CO2 and other 'greenhouse gases' absorbs and reradiates infrared (emitted by the ground after sunlight's heated it) which has a warming effect.
Homans have altered the composition of the atmosphere, increasing its CO2 concentration by 30% over preindustrial levels.
The planet has warmed substantially in the past few decades.

And yet some people continue to baselessly claim it's coincidence...
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 21 June 2018 6:29:26 PM
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ALTRAV (continued)
Your confidence that "man's contribution to CC is negligeable" is misplaced. You are far more arrogant, thinking whatever we do will have a negligible effect, than anyone who recognises that human actions can have major consequences.

Bazz,
As we're already seeing the global warming effects, your claim is intrinsically wrong. But it also makes two technical errors: firstly EROEI is very rarely the limiting factor. As long as net energy is positive, what counts is the financial return on investment. Secondly, although EROEI has dropped substantially for oil, the same can not be said for coal.
Posted by Aidan, Thursday, 21 June 2018 6:36:11 PM
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Aidan, you have brushed over or dismissed many of my comments.
I am not one to scare easily, because I look into the veracity of certain claims.
I won't attempt to quote even some of the comments from those involved in the research.
I heard this one recently.
A scientific team sent up a satellite to update the information of CO2 levels in cities.
They were shocked to find that the levels in the cities were not the problem and in fact the word 'negligible' was used.
What they found instead shocked them because the jungles and highly vegetated ares were in fact 30% higher than previously recorded.
I'm not sure when they take CO2 readings in cities, but I tell you for a fact and from experience, I have witnessed several cities with high levels of CO2 of an evening, and next morning, clear blue skies and fresh air. The CO2 went in two directions, out to sea and down on the ground. CO2 in it's first state, being hot is lighter than air.
Being hot, it rises.
In rising it slowly cools down, especially as nightfall approaches. This would happen quicker in winter.
In cooling it will stop rising and in fact begin to fall, because now it is heavier than air.
So it either falls or is dispersed by wind/breeze due to change in temperature from day to night.
Posted by ALTRAV, Thursday, 21 June 2018 7:36:17 PM
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Dear ALTRAV,

Wow. Someone who can actually see CO2 in the air. Impressive.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 21 June 2018 8:04:29 PM
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