Dear ALTRAV,

If you're talking about yourself and Jayb in your
last post - then fair enough. You are to be
Congratulated for at last being man enough to
admit some errors that have been made. I admit
that I should not have taken what was being
said so personally.

All that has been asked of both of you from
the very start has been - not to make false
accusations and assumptions. To argue in a logical
manner because sound reasoning will conquer
unreasonable generalisations every time. Women
like men - are different. Not all women are
feminists, not all women want to compete with men,
not all women are interested in taking over "male"
positions and certainly not all women want to serve
in the military. Examples have been given of the
ones that do - merely to illustrate the point that
just like their male colleagues - everyone, male or
female, is worthy of being treated with civility and
respect.

Anyway, I shall take my husband's advice because I
suspect that I am wasting my time talking to you.
But just before I do go - I want to let you know
that my opinions are not set in concrete. I am not
looking to convert anybody. And I certainly do not
think of myself as being superior in any shape or
form. I don't have the answers to the big questions
in life. I'm still on my own road to discovery.
I'm no pundit. I have only my own life experiences
to go on. I have encountered some amazing souls
on my journey through life - and finally, I think
that humans are the most extra-ordinary creatures
and a big part of me still wants to reach an even
greater understanding about who we are.

I wish you well in your future postings.
I bear no ill-will towards you.
May love and not hate rule your heart.

I know i am responding, again, off topic and this really must stop.
I felt it necessary to once more correct a mis-guided commentors response.
Foxy, you are smart enough to know who my comments are leveled at.
I respond so as to ensure the true implications of my comments are not mis-directed as you have clearly attempted to do.
The main reason I have been forced to respond off topic once again is because you insist on not reading my posts, because if you did you would find that I have constantly singled out certain females, not all women, as you suggest and try to twist the facts to suite your agenda. This mindset is obvious throughout your comments.
To your last post.
The beginning is a description of yourself and those of like mind.
The last sentence of the first paragraph is most welcome and is acceptable.
Your second paragraph is a travesty.
I absolutely refute your charges and strongly advise you to read my posts and comments in totality and not cherry pick.
This is typical of how so many women talk.
I will use words and inflections appropriate to the intensity and veracity of the point I am making.
By using words which some people find uncomfortable, good that means I succeeded in getting my point across.
Now if your going to try to get one over me you had better quote me correctly and truthfully, because as soon as you over-reach, as you continually do, your point is lost and your comments rejected.

I'm impressed with the level of knowledge and experience in this discussion. I remember talking with a Naval Clearance Diver said that they used to be bastardized in the 70's to weed out the weak candidates. I questioned him on it and he said "the enemy isn't going to treat you gently". As I understand torture training is standard in special forces. Our special forces are some of the best in the world. It's not an easy thing as I understand to kill another human being or to face imminent death. The SAS train with live rounds. It takes a certain psychology to thrive in such an environment. Yes they have to have discipline but they also need to break out. They already have discipline in situations that would leave most of us curling up and vomiting in a corner. In a boxing ring most people will turn and run away rather than meeting the blow and countering - its instinctive. The purpose of military training is to overcome this conditioning. Even then green troops are weak. Perhaps their symbols (Skulls, etc) are part of this psychology. Warriors and Soldiers throughout history have had a certain reputation. They're somewhat damaged. Sun Tzu said "military action is important to the nation - it is the ground of life and death, the path of survival and destruction". These soldiers often cannot adapt to civilian life. They protect us - maybe we have broken them - but it could be unavoidable. The real world isn't always pretty - hard decisions are necessary.
Sun Tzu also says "When the civilian leadership is ignorant ... (they take) ... away victory by deranging the military. Clausewitz is also instructive. Cheers.

Dear ALTRAV,

I advise you to go back to your own posts and to
my responses to your posts - on pages 26 and 27.

Read the comments
that you made about me - and then my responses
and explanations to correct your false
assumptions.

You were the one -
making personal observations about a fellow contributor
(me) - I merely responded. You were the one going off
topic. And what resulted - you have no one to blame but
yourself. I have now tried to extend an olive branch
to you. Yet you persist in seeing things only from
your own point of view - where you're not guilty of
anything. You accept no responsibility for anything.
And you're not prepared to modify your judgements.

In any case - the art of reasoned, intelligent debate is
a skill not easily acquired. You're very generous in
giving advice to other people and criticising how they
post. However you would do well to take your
own advice in your postings. Because -
if you don't read what other
contributors are actually writing and accept their
explanations - this problem
will persist - and continue to result in the
total break-down of communication as has been the case
thus far.

he wouldn't urinate on some females if they were on fire.
Foxy,
I know plenty such females & even more blokes that actually deserve that but I myself, wouldn't do it but I'd not hesitate to chip in for some fuel to pour onto the fire.

I know this sounds inhumane to many but what else would work on such inhumane beings ? Fight fire with fire still stands up well to such arguments. Have you noticed that lately no western hostages have been taken by ISIS ? Because they learnt their lesson & stopped frequenting these places. See, how simply some problems are solved ?
Our society has well over-stepped the mark on compassion. we now have created a monster that thrives & grows on this misplaced compassion.
Compassion is for victims not for perpetrators.
If our Armed Forces are under the same yoke as this misplaced compassion then the proponents of PC & it's consequences must be prepared to accept the consquences if the soldiers are only supplied with rubber bullets.. We can not tie the hands of soldiers & then blame them for failing to protect us. It's a very similar situation with our Police.

Foxy, now I am annoyed.
I have gone back and read 26 and 27.
My comments are clear and to the point.
No ambiguity.
If you want to know why I slag off at people, well here is a clear example.
I have accused you and others of like mind of certain things.
I have explained why.
You on the other hand are showing your petulant side by attempting to reject what I said by insisting that I am wrong.
This goes to the heart of my point.
If I say that females should not be in the military, I use clear and plain english quoting reasons why.
You, and others, on the other hand believe they should because of some insane reasoning that you have a right to be there.
You did not address any of the points I gave in an attempt to make or win your point.
You merely kept insisting that women were free to make choices today. I have proven unequivocally that your position and the generals is wrong.
You refuse to accept it, so be it, that's your prerogative, but do not berate me because you have no 'real' and viable facts to prove your argument.
This will be the umpteenth time I have explained my case.
Please do not bother to respond.
If your inclined to do so then before you do, go back and read my posts, then read them again and again till you actually allow my words and sentiment to permeate into your mind.
Having done so, please move on to the next topic.
We can joust again about another topic.
This one has been done to death and there is nothing more to say about it.
I believe the 'Nays' have it.