In Australia, everyone should be able to put food on their table and be home in time to enjoy it with their friends and family.

However, today our economy is not delivering for many Australians. Some corporations are using their money and power to take too much for themselves.

If we had good governments that changed the rules and stood up against powerful corporations, we could all enjoy a better life. We could build better hospitals, schools and public transport, and take better care of our environment.

It’s so important that good governments keep powerful corporations in check and make our economy work for all of us.

It certainly could be said that power companies are ripping us off and the mania for renewable energy is certainly inflating power prices. Recently you were extolling the virtues of costly wind and solar power, which is certainly causing hardship for low-income people.

What rules do you think governments should change, given that governments are not in business, and given that there are watch dogs policing business activities on behalf of consumers. Which corporations, other than electricity providers, do you see as making it hard for people to put food on the table? And how do you suggest governments can keep these corporations “in check”? Presumably you have some ideas that you think are possible.

ttbn, 'tis great to read your interest in this topic. I look forward to your constructive contribution to the discussion. :-)

I would posit that, when corporations are taking in record profits, but there hasn’t been a real increase in income support for a generation, and more and more people can’t make ends meet, our society is out of balance.

One thing that good governments can do is to make sure that corporations pay more tax in order to deliver the things everyday people care about most such as hospitals, schools, train lines, teachers, the education children get, the care
patients receive etc.

In other words, we need good governments that keep powerful corporations in check, and deliver the things everyday people care about most.

GJOESQ,

You can't just keep on taxing business or you will find that there are no businesses to tax: they will have moved off-shore and jobs will have disappeared. The current government still wants to reduce corporate taxation. It has been blocked for the time, but there will certainly be no increase in tax.

These 'poor’ people need to be taught budgeting skills. Most people now don't have a personal budget; they live from hand to mouth, pay to pay, and have no savings. You cannot help people who are not prepared to help themselves and, unfortunately, more and more people expect others to look after them. No matter how much you take from the rich, it will never be enough for the 'poor’.

"given that there are watch dogs policing business activities on behalf of consumers." Yep! ASIC has been doing a fantastic job keeping the banks under control. According to the political conservatives like ttbn, there is no need for a Banking Royal Commission.

"You can't just keep on taxing business" Big tax cuts for big businesses, like banks, right ttbn. Bugger the Battlers, they've got money in the bank. Well they did once until the Conservatives let the banks steal it from them

Paul,

Do you suffer from A.D.D? I recently admitted that opposition to a banking RC was wrong, and you acknowledged that I had. But, here you are, chewing the same bone again: “According to the political conservatives like ttbn, there is no need for a Banking Royal Commission.”

And, I have said more than once that I do NOT approve of Turnbull's tax cuts for big business. But you have decided I didn't really mean it because I'm a conservative and only Greens really care about people.

Ideology has got the better of you. You are really not worth bothering with.

I'm going away for a few days. Out of range of your BS, I'm pleased to say.

Of course you did ttbn, after the brown stuff started hitting the fan. 18 months ago Labor and the Greens were calling for a RC into the banks, where were you then. Systemic problems with the banks were coming to light way back, but the good old conservatives were against a RC. Conservative support now rings hollow with me, Blind Freddy knows now that this inquiry is absolutist necessary.

On the other point of tax cuts, I'll take back what I said about you personally, but the rest of the motley conservative crew support them.

There's another option GJOESQ. It might not reach the big cooperations, but who knows, I've been suprised before that there are cooperations out there willing to contribute for the good instead of for the bottom dollar. That other option is to take a hands on approach. If there is a need that you have the oppurtunity to help with (for instance helping someone have a good meal). Then take the lead to act on that opportunity to help another out. If we can change the culture by doing it ourselves (by enough people doing this), then we won't need to try to have the government come to force us to help through taxation. It might even reach some cooperations to spend their profits on a community project or a community need. Though don't expect this from a cooperation until at least you can also successfully expect this from any given neighbor.

Any government, that does as little to mitigate climate change as our Federal Gov, has no interest in the wellbeing of society.

' Any government, that does as little to mitigate the ozone layer, global cooling, YK2 bug as our Federal Gov, has no interest in the wellbeing of society.'

Come on Tony no one could be so gullible as to not see through the gw scam now. The alarmist have already destroyed the electricity reliability and made the likes of India and China laugh at our stupidity.

Any CC comments, that belittle the work of thousands climate scientists, are of no value or interest

Of course any intelligent comment on the climate change scam is of no interest to people like Tony153. They can't afford to read the truth, in case it penetrates their useful idiots skull, & they have to find a new religion.

The likes of Hasbeen and runner, are lead by the nose on most issues, climate change denial included. The usual scare campaign by vested interests is enough to get these bods frothing at the mouth on anything and everything. It is a pity some people just can't think for themselves and need to be lead blindly on important matters effecting their daily lives. These old cold war warriors are still living with the fear of the "reds under the bed" and all that rubbish, its sad really.

Gentleposters, may I remind you that this discussion is entitled, "Good governments make our economy work for us". Could you please keep your remarks on topic?

In order to get us back on track, I put unto you that we all deserve a fair share of the wealth our work creates. The government should increase wages. They should not give a tax cut to big business. A good government can make Australia fair for everyone.

Thank you all for keeping on topic.

GJOESQ if you believe we deserve a share of the wealth our work creates then obviously bureaucrats are over paid by a factor of about 100, & a huge percentage of the general work force is overpaid by at least a factor of 10.

You may be right that "Good governments make our economy work for us", which would explain why we are doing so badly. We haven't had anything like a good government since Howard, & his was struggling very hard to even come near attaining that label anyway.

If you are right, from what I see as likely government in the next decade or so, we had all better start tightening our belts very quickly. Good government is highly unlikely with the current players.

GJOESQ: You say "The government should increase wages."

Below is a list of countries that have something in common regarding their government* and wages. I'm going to see if you can guess what it is:

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland and until recently Germany.

*(Their government in all cases at top country wide level and in most of these countries at all levels of government)

thinkabit, here's link that explains the tax system Denmark uses: http://www.skm.dk/english/facts-and-figures/progression-in-the-income-tax-system

Could you please elucidate your point about what Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland and until recently Germany, have in common? Thanx. :-)

While you're thinking about that, I posit that some of our biggest and most profitable corporations pay little or no tax at all. If we try to make them play by the same rules as the rest of us, they run political campaigns against governments, and threaten to sack workers or increase prices.

The private sector has left people out in the cold. Just look at the ongoing results of the Banking Royal Commission. Government should do more to make sure everyone in our society is taken care of!

And which bureaucracy are you a member of GJOESQ, state or federal?

GJOESQ: What these countries have in common is their minimum wage, it is ZERO. Yes, you read that correctly- they have NO MANDATORY MINIMUM WAGE!* !

Whey they have instead is a bargaining system where employees by way of their unions with collective bargaining enter into agreements with their employers (most commonly at the nation wide sector level) and the government enforces these agreements. But their governments don't dictate terms!! Governments in these countries stay well clear of interfering with these arrangements.

There are other countries in Europe which basically have no minimum wage: eg, Austria, Finland and others. But by far the most enlightening case study is Liechtenstein, cause not only does it have no minimum wage it also has one of the lowest personal and company tax rates of the first world. And yet it has one of the lowest unemployment rates of the world, the highest GDP per person in both nominal and PPP (depending on which organisation is listing it- but all lists I've seen put it in the top 5), one of the flattest income/or/wealth distributions and one of the highest standard of living. Remarkably it achieves all this while having some of the worst possible geographical features- ie, it is a doubly land-locked, mountainous alpine, cold snowy/rainy cloudy winter and cloudy cool-moderately warm summer climate and bugger-all extractable mineral resources.

*(at the top governmental level- although some do have some lower government set minimum wages in various regions for some economic sectors of their country

thinkabit, yes, you are correct that Lichtenstein has one of the highest standards of living across the globe. However, it’s important to note that this comes with the trade-off of an extremely high cost of living. Also, much of the country’s wealth can be attributed to its status as a tax haven.

Can you please outline how the rather unique situation of Lichtenstein can be equated with an equally unique, if such a concept is valid, Australia and what our governments can do to follow Lichtenstein’s succes and guarantee the same results.

GJOESQ, according to the likes of hasbeen we haven't had good government since they freed the slaves down on the ole' plantation.

Look at this nonsense from the 'Master of Mirh' himself; "bureaucrats are over paid by a factor of about 100, & a huge percentage of the general work force is overpaid by at least a factor of 10."

Hassy, by your own calculations, in your lifetime by what factor were you overpaid?

"Waffle" by Paul, a true bureaucrat.

GJOESQ: You say: "However, it’s important to note that this comes with the trade-off of an extremely high cost of living."

No, it's not really relevant nor important to note this because even though they have an "extremely high cost of living" their wages/salary/incomes more than offset this cost. That is why is specifically I mentioned that they had the highest (according to some) GDP per capita on a PPP basis. The PPP (purchasing power parity) basis accounts for this. See the 2017 CIA compiled GDP/person list, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita , and observe that Lichtenstein according to the CIA is at the top at a whopping 139,000Int$.

You have also mentioned that Lichtenstein's economic circumstances are unique. And with this I fully agree- there certainly are few other countries with a comparable wealthy population. But the question is to ask is why they are this way. And the answer is because they have something that it extremely rare in this world: a government that knows how to and actually does create conditions for business to thrive. Their wealth isn't an accident but is the result of planned far seeing government policy and also from a citizenry that is financial savvy and wise.

A perfect example of why many Australians aren't doing as well as them is from the very of comment you make about it being a tax haven. You say this as though is it a bad thing and that it should be shunned. This sort of short-sighted envious attitude is very common amongst those who complain a lot about how tough life is here and how the system is rigged so that the richer get richer and that government should be doing more for them and not the rich.
However, you will find that the majority of the population of Lichenstein are fully aware of the tax advantages that their country offers to the world's richest but they embraces it as a good thing! The population is willing for it to be so because they know that this contributes to what makes them themselves wealthy!

who does not want to earn, the care of him will not be saved

thinkabit,
You say that as though being a tax haven isn't a bad thing. But tax havens aren't rich because they're where the high value economic activity occurs; they're rich because corporations have chartered accountants to shift money around to make it look as if the high value economic activity occurred there, even though it actually occurred somewhere else.

I think it's your attitude, rather than GJOESQ's, that highlights why Australians aren't doing so well. When people complain about how tough life is for them, you mistake it for envy. And you fail to understand that low taxes are just one of many things that are good for business – and in terms of benefit:cost ratio, cutting taxes ranks very low.

I do share Aidan's point about tax haven's being an ethical issue. Clearly, not every country can be a tax haven. This would cause a glut of tax havens and reduce the viability of most of them, thus causing severe economical stress with those surplus tax havens. It is understandable that Liechtenstein loves being a tax haven because it is a niche market they can serve.

I quote from Wikipedia, "The country's low tax rate, loose incorporation and corporate governance rules, and traditions of strict bank secrecy have contributed significantly to the ability of financial intermediaries in Liechtenstein to attract funds from outside the country's borders. The same factors made the country attractive and vulnerable to money launderers, although late 2009 legislation has strengthened regulatory oversight of illicit funds transfers."

I don't believe that we can equate what has worked for Liechtenstein to what may work for Australia. However, one can say that, leaving the ethics aside, the Liechtenstein government has made its economy work for them! QED :-)

Everyone knows that but nothing can be perfectly good, it must have something to balance. Nothing too much is good.