The politically motivated scheme of the Conservative government, “Work For The Dole” has failed disastrously .
Two years ago today, 18-year-old jobseeker Josh Park-Fing was killed while on a Work For The Dole placement at a showground in Toowoomba, in southern Queensland. Josh died after falling from the tray of a flat-backed trailer being pulled by a tractor which hit a bump.
The Department of Jobs and Small Business claims ‘Jobactve’ providers will ensure participants in the program receive, "workplace inductions and training". nothing of the sort was ever given to young Josh.  The Australian Unemployed Workers' Union said a third of calls to the union's helpline were about Work For The Dole worksite safety issues. Jeremy Paxton from the union said, "We hear that a lot of these workers aren't getting proper training, and that these sites aren't complying with standard workplace health and safety procedures.". In 2016, a Government-funded report suggested 64 per cent of Work For The Dole worksites failed to meet "average" health and safety standards.
Its time this bogus scheme was abandoned, a scheme that is serving no one except a few small businesses that are exploiting government provided cheap labour, and replaced it with a decent jobs training program for our unemployed youth.

Two years ago. At that time, there was no conservative government: Turnbull had already saddled us with a second socialist Labor government. And the unfortunate excuse for a tirade against anything the Greens don't hold with would be with us today if it were not for the work for the dole scheme, would he? If he hadn't been working for the dole, he would be alive today? Still collecting the dole or even earning a living? Who knows? What we do know is that working for the dole had nothing to do with his untimely death!

Is the policy even enforced? How many of the 700,000 unemployed in Australia are actually working for their handouts?

Who finances the unemployed “workers” union? (a good many of them have never actually worked). Is the union staffed by volunteers, or is taxpayers’ money, via the dole, propping it up? But, surely those nice, selfless socialists would not be demanding part of people's dole money to provide (what?) services?

You have a nerve accusing any government of political motivation, Paul, when your post is crawling with political motivation. Nothing wrong with that, of course; don't give a thought to any accusations of hypocrisy

ttbn, This should be right up the alley of the Conservatives. Is this not something the Conservatives in government champion, a forced labour scheme that demonstrates to their supporters and the wider community that they are tough on dole bludgers, even if did cost a poor child his life. Do not the extreme see his death as a bit of collateral damage in the pseudo political war they want waged against the undeserving, and unemployed youth of Australia.

What I want to see for our unemployed youth is properly managed training schemes, programs that deliver real outcomes for young Australians. Not the useless exploitative nonsense we have now, that sees kids used and abused as cheap labor for small business, which in this case resulted in a child's death.

You can ask all the irrelevant questions you like, but the fact is, this rubbish is all the Conservatives in government can come up with when dealing with Australia's unemployed youth. Beat them over the head with a big stick, great.

P1405

How's the greens surrogate campaign to limit the presence of the police in Byron Bay progressing?

Let us not interfere in the passive lifestyle of Greens supporters who wander aimlessly and unemployed around the same streets, with a surfboard under each arm.

God forbid we ask them to contribute to society, through work for the dole schemes!
Let's all support them with a friendly little tag of “back packer”!

Paul,

So, are you suggesting that any participant in a Work for the Dole Scheme should receive workplace inductions and training ? Of course, shouldn't that be automatic ?

Are you suggesting that, if that was done properly, there would be nothing particularly wrong, socially, financially or philosophically, with the Work for the Dole Scheme ? I would support you on that, as usual.

Cheers,

Joe

I'll bet our Paul is looking for a job as executive director of work for the doll training schemes.

Don't need one Paul. All doll receivers should have to report to their local council for 2 days every week, to do what the paid work force never get round to doing. Just making them get out of bed in time to be at work at 8.00AM would be pretty useful training for their chances of future work.

Now listen for the union scream

I don't believe the unemployed should be 'shamed' to work for their Dole per se. Rather it should be a case of identifying their vocational interests (within reason) and formerly train them in exchange for their Dole payment.

I'll admit there are a small hard core group of legitimate bludgers in our community (not as many as you might think) who'll do everything possible to avoid work including gaol, but these are very much in a small percentage. Moreover I've always found if you remove a persons dignity, you'll have trouble with him in the future.

When it comes to 'most' people receiving unemployment benefits, many would prefer to receive a wage, not handouts from the government. Accordingly they should not be divested of their dignity simply for being unemployed.

The remedy for the intractable, ('dole bludger') unemployed - arbitrarily move them to a government work camp and have them repair furniture for the aged, or grow vegetables for the poor, or similar work given their age and physical ability. Their remuneration, or their salary; full board and lodging, not a 'skerrick' of cash - just full room 'n board. It would help them review their negative attitude toward their expectation of government handouts.

Paul,

There is no conservative government in Australia; has not been one since Mal and the wets stabbed Abbott in the back. You appear not to have caught up with that. No way could the Leftist Turnbull government be called tough on anything.

I'll ask again. How many of those 700,000 are working for the role? How many are subject to your 'forced labour’ nightmare in the Dickensian tradition? I also note that you have downgraded this 18 year old adult to “poor child” status.

I really like the idea of your “properly managed training schemes, programs that deliver real outcomes for young Australians”. But, can you recall a time when the political class managed anything properly? And, what jobs would the training be directed at? What is left of Australian industry doesn't need workers: the ones they have will be around until retirement or death, a long way off mostly, and of little use to the growing number of unemployed. All the jobs Australians couldn't do, or wouldn't do, have been taken by immigrants - immigrants that we would not have needed had the political class stopped regarding the jobs as 'menial’ jobs and paid a little more for Australians to do them. There is no excuse for a developed country to indulge in mass immigration.

It's a pity that you find my questions “irrelevant”. You won't be able to prove your point without the answers; and I am not interested enough to waste time fossicking though the bureaucracy of work for the dole.

Paul, outraged are you? How is your society to revenge yourself on behalf of people killed by Labour green schemes going?
I think a two days a week for the local council will be the real go. Green councils will mobilise the young people into flying pickets and proper councils can get some litter collected. Before anyone sneers, wouldn't it be great to not see plastic rubbish alongside the road?

Dear Paul,

I feel so sorry for the family of that young lad who
was killed and find it rather disturbing that it's
taking so long to get to the bottom of this tragedy.
It should not have happened.

However, I don't agree that with the "Work For The Dole,"
Scheme young people don't learn skills. They do. For a
start they learn to turn up for work on time, (instead of
sitting at home doing nothing - or just mucking around with
their friends). They learn a work routine - how to inter-act
with other people, how to take orders, how to listen, and so
on. Also, they learn how a business functions, and what's
expected of them in order to keep a job. The list goes on.

Their self-esteem goes up as a result, and in quite a few
cases, if they do a good job, they may even be offered a
full-time placement. It has happened. If they want training
or to learn certain skills - there's always TAFE. Perhaps
TAFE could be an incentive - as part of a 'Study for the Dole,"
program? Giving young people a choice.

Paul,

How about the Greens immigration system that killed 1200 people?

I'm sure that bludgers will phone the union for prevention of work to complain about "safety" issues over the years, and that at the first accident the bludgers union will try and shut the system down having completely failed to stop the pink batts debacle which killed 3 kids.

Green with hypocrisy.

Many people have forgotten about the pink batt deaths. That was the fault of the loopy left, not conservatives. Paul&Co might have mentioned when it happened. I don't recall.

You people are asking for it.

There is a contract in society that says we act civilised which includes helping those that are down and out. Break that contract by punishing and disregarding the losers in society and you will reap the consequences in pain and suffering. If there is no contract then what is stopping the descent into urban savagery of the desperate taking what they need to survive? Push people to the brink and expect them to fight back with viciousness and uncaring hatred. After all its what they have been taught right?

This government continually tries to make life miserable for the poorest and weakest in some insane attempt to make them disappear or just give up but the only real effect is to make them sick and angry and not just at the government. They hate you all and they feel like you all hate them.

An utterly idiotic way to run a modern(not for long) society.

One perfect job is now presenting itself, as a lot of councils are going to stop recycling because it is too expensive.

Work for the dole doing the recycling.

Something needs to be done too many just do not want to work.

'I want to see for our unemployed youth is properly managed training schemes'
You want!...you want!....as long as someone else makes it happen.
Today didn't just occur of what happened the day before...it's been a long time coming...and now you come up with what you want!
Give me a break!

Put them in the Army....you bleat about what you want but I don't see any effort put into a solution. It seems most of you think all you have to do is come up with a wish list of what someone else should do.

Hi o sung wu and Foxy, I generally agree with your comments on this.

"it should be a case of identifying their vocational interests (within reason) and formerly train them in exchange for their Dole payment." Disaffected youth become a costly burden on society both economically and socially, and it does not get any better as they grow older.

Skills training is what it should be all about, along with the intangibles that Foxy mentioned, set to work with a menial task like picking up rubbish on the side of the road is not training, and of little benefit to the young person involved, its demeaning to have a teenager who should have a bright future set to work that belongs to the unskilled and uneducated in society.

Have you ever noticed how the Conservatives always want to put the unemployed to work at the most crappy jobs they can think of, like cleaning the public toilets. Jobs they want done for their benefit, but jobs they would not do themselves, and they want them done on the cheap. There other favorite hobby horse is "put them in the army"! What for, to defend the nice clean public toilets they demand, from those that would dirty them up?

'What for, to defend the nice clean public toilets they demand'....to learn discipline fool...to learn that life is a case of doing what needs to be done and not selective activities to amuse when you run out of leisure time
If nothing else the Army at least would introduce the need for social structure and the benefits of routine.
The last thing we need is big mouth who thinks one just gets out of bed and decides to be a bank manager for the day...always wanting to put labels so as to introduce their positioning in the political scheme of things, grow up!
Hint!....everyone wipes their backside with the same intention, Conservatives or not, so even toilets have their place not withstanding fools who insist on doing it in plastic bags to prove their independence of social norms.
f/wits are self made....congratulations you've succeeded.

Lest we forget - pink batts.

//Lest we forget - pink batts.//

Jumping on the Abdel-Magied bandwagon, eh ttbn? That's not like you.

Now Ed Husic, the man whose religion doesn't hold with democracy, wants to foment the senate into a furore over something that happened two years ago, and nobody had heard of until the last day of so, by demanding Senator Cash release some report. I don't recall such a fuss from the Left following Chairman Rudd's pink batts deaths. Those victims of Left stupidity were young and just starting out in life, too. And they were actually working, not sitting on a moving trailer, which is illegal.

SD, you are straight out of the 1960's. A relic of the cold war, no doubt you were calling for "tough army discipline" for our youth then, and a bit of sacrifice on the front line, stopping the reds, the yellow hoards and all that as well, as you are now. Obviously you were in no mans army, as you can't even put an argument together. You show your level of intelligence by resorting to a tirade of name calling, and attempts at insult. Well done Sunshine, go get your gun and get out onto the parade ground where you belong. You are a crack up.

Hi there SPECIAL DELIVERY...

The Army or the Military forces are not a default answer to unemployment. Long gone are the days when all you need to learn is march, take orders and fire a weapon. Todays military are a highly technical group, who must know and understand tactics and strategies, as well as complex weapon systems, that are not that easy to subjugate

The days of spending hours on the bull ring, doing close order, and rifle drill, though still in existence, are very much a thing of the past. More time is spent in the technical components of mounting a battle strategy, laying an ambush, using a series of remote triggers, that can create all measure of harm if used incorrectly. Tactics are an area of warfare that are taught until they're literally mastered, and can be easily executed at any time of the day or night.

Young people who choose to enter the Armed Forces, do it as a career, and in no way should it be perceived it as being some sort of punishment for being unemployed. It's disrespectful, even deprecatory to even imply the contrary in my view; especially as we're so close to ANZAC Day.

It's amazing how the pseudo intellectuals always jump to conclusions without any logic.
The Army is there, if nothing else it represents organisation, it represents discipline, it allows the individual time out from the social confusion when faced with lack of direction and whether by design or accident it teaches youth how to live together and get the most out of any association.
And to Paul 1405, I've never seen flatulence in human form but I'd say you would be a close proximity.
I don't have to compete with a babbler and my only wish for you is that you have the youth, you claim to represent, look after you in old age.
Now that would be a hoot!
Shall we give him his enema now or after we have a joint?

Sadly SPECIAL DELIVERY you know very little about the Army or service life. It's primary function is not some community punishment institution, for wayward youth, rather it's role is to defend our nation, no more nor less. Me, a 'pseudo intellectual', well thanks for that, it's made my day!

Why is it necessary to insult people when you don't agree with their opinion? Is it you feel threatened or challenged in some way? Or you simply can't get on with people? So you attack rather than reason; or insult rather than encourage. Just curious is all?

o sung wu,

Right with you; in my day the switched on soldier had to be as smart as his Sargent and a lot smarter than a 2Lt, today's soldier has to be as smart as our Captains were and that's being more than fair to Captains of yore.

As far as putting those that don't want to be soldiers in the Army, it's a recipe for disaster, I had to put up with enough of them in the 1960s; not that I blamed them, many had been pulled out of good jobs and were now working antiquated machines that they'd only read about and for far less money.

Generally, conscripts don't work well until they are being shot at.
There have been some magnificent exceptions, however.

Thanks o sung wu and Is Mise for the informative account of the actual reality of what the modern Australian defence forces are about. The notion that the army should be loaded up with unskilled sloggers as SD thinks, is ridiculous in the extreme.

SD you are so out of touch with reality that its laughable. Do you have any other harebrained ideas for the unemployed youth of Australia?

Obviously the intense desire to view the Army as an untouchable group of specialists upon which no one must intrude so as to maintain the status quo is rather myopic however for the sake of this myopic and intransigent stance another organization can be created, specific to the purpose of providing guidance and discipline to the unemployed youth.
For this to occur, with half a chance of success ex servicemen would be needed to form the nucleus as instructors and teachers and to serve as transient role models because only they would have a uniform set of disciplinary skills, and without public servants.
So rather than bleat about what cannot be touched for reasons of the past I'd like to see the pseudo intellectuals and seat polishers come up with a workable way forward in resolving the situation rather than protest about what cannot be changed.
It is what it is...and claiming it to be otherwise is an act of foolishness but then that shouldn't be surprising to some.
Claiming you want the best for youth....at your convenience, is not going to achieve anything other than underscore ineptitude.

SD,

"So rather than bleat about what cannot be touched for reasons of the past I'd like to..."

You miss the point, today's Army, and other services, is far more complex than in days of yore.

As but one small example, thermal imaging did not exist and one could crawl around in the dark, confident that if one was quiet and stayed below the skyline one was fairly safe.
Smokers were a problem because they stank to high heavens in Chinese noses, but that could be overcome by not taking smokers on sneak patrols.
Today even daylight is fraught with danger, a satellite photo can be relayed to the enemy in real time, so today's soldier has to be a lot more aware than in the past.

He has to be more motivated, more alert and much better trained.

I talk with blokes, at the range, that have been to Afghanistan and other places and the level of tension under which they operated makes my experiences seem almost like training exercises.

Special Delivery, what colour shirts do you want this private army of yours to wear, you can't have black or brown they have been taken, how about blue, as in true blue. You can call them the Special Defence, SD for short, if you like.

Probably when posters here mention the armed forces for unemployed people, they don't intend for unskilled and untrained blokes to be sent to Afghanistan or Iraq after a couple of weeks - they mean some form of National Service ? i.e. people marching up and down, saluting, shining their boots, etc. as well as getting some compulsory trade training ? Would that be so terrible ?

But isn't it fun to distort what people might mean into something ridiculous ? Here's one such suggestion about how stupid such an idea might be - is SD demanding that, in their second week, unemployed people drafted into the army, be parachuted into war zones ? Gosh, isn't that ridiculous ? What a stupid idea. Drop it entirely. SD is obviously an idiot.

Boy, that felt good.

Joe

I understand o sung wu's position that the military isn't for everyone. However, we can never be completely sure who will succeed in there until we give a few a go. I know some ex-service people who become complete ratbags in any other context. Some straight A students don't make it through basic training. Going back to the poor boy who died, I find some if the complaints being made unreasonable. He wasn't cheap labour for a business, he was emptying bins at a showground. That job should require a five minute induction. He complained of a back problem. However, those schemes can't make it too easy for scammers to get out of work. I doubt they were working too hard. He was getting $450 per fortnight. I think that is a fairly reasonable amount.

The huge US military is effectively a training/unemployment scheme. A huge percentage of their tradesmen & women have been trained in the defence force. It offers the opportunity to many from the rust belt of the US to get the training that is no longer available in their shrinking home towns.

Without it the US would be a much more unhappy place. We would do well to do something similar, but with training only offered to those with the ability & education to handle the knowledge training required.

For those not able to handle trade training, a land army, used to clear the huge areas of invasive noxious weeds, & feral animals that our national parks have become, would at least get them used to getting out of bed in the morning, & doing something useful.

Paul,

Work for the dole can also be considered an internship which gives the intern work experience to hone his skills, a chance to determine what he would really like to do, and something to put on his CV that will give him a head start on other applicants.

With respect SPECIAL DELIVERY; not wanting to sound rude but what precisely do you want to do, given the limited amount or resources this already debt laden country has? Create an analogous organisation similar to the Army, heavy on the discipline and personal responsibility etc. And have suitable ex-service personnel, teach them, these important values in life, while instilling them with personal discipline?

They tried a similar programme in the UK. Both directing staff (all ex soldiers of varying ranks) and participants, were all attired in Army style uniforms and their ace in the hole was, if anyone chose to buck the system, they were ordered to leave, and were consequently met at the main gate by police. There only departure to your proposal SD, each of the participants were convicted youths, and recidivists. And it was the UK Court who mandated they either attend this 'quasi Army Camp' or alternatively, go to Gaol or Borstal, depending on their age. But Dole bludgers - threaten to cut-off their dole I guess?

Paul105, I belong to a volunteer group that gathers one Sunday afternoon a month and collects rubbish from the sides of roads, drinking camps and a local aboriginal town camp.
We do it because we hate the sight of all that rubbish destroying the pristine beauty of the Kimberley.
Our dignity is not diminished, we don’t feel demeaned, we dont feel like second class citizens.
And the most glaring piece of Information about the group is that not one unemployed person belongs to it! Despite numerous, well publicised requests for more members, the only people who turn up are small business owners, well paid employees or retired people like myself.
Quite frankly I think many unemployed would benefit from having to work for their income.
As for destroying a persons dignity by making them work for the dole, I would think the opposite is true. There is nothing more soul destroying than being given money for nothing.

I'm retired now, but the thought that I'd not be able to find work of any kind, would cause me to enter a deep depression. For me at least, work was like a kind of therapy, whenever someone in my private life got me down, it was the fact that I needed to 'buck-up' and go off to work, was therapy in itself. Then again, no matter how much skin 'n bark I might've lost from my Inspector during the previous shift - without the ability of attending work, would be utterly devastating for me.

There was something quite satisfying for me at least, that I was always secure in the knowledge that I had a good job to go to, on a regular basis. The very thought of being made unemployed, was a complete anathema to me, as it would be for many other folk too I would imagine.

It's for this reason, I feel quite sorry for those who are out of work and are trying hard in seeking meaningful employment. Even those who deliberately elude work, in order they can lay around content, to subsist on the dole cheque; for the latter, they don't know what they're missing by avoiding work altogether?

No work. No money. End of story.

ttbn, the 1.9 million on an a 'Aged Pension', "No work. No money. End of story." terrible idea.

Hi Paul,

Gosh, that's clever, it must have put Ttbn right back in his place. Equating pensioners with able-bodied unemployed - a master-stroke !

Perhaps to clarify, it's possible that when anybody talks about the unemployed, particularly those who have been unemployed for ten or twenty years, or longer, and are still more or less able-bodied, they may be suggesting, like Lenin did, that "He who does not work, neither shall he eat." Even Lenin probably meant 'able-bodied' people who didn't want to work, not pensioners.

I'm certainly not suggesting that our government should apply the same remedies to unemployment as Lenin did, something much more gentle than execution may also work, such as compulsory training (i.e. you get paid if you're doing a training course) or some form of National Service. As I understand it, most Marxist/socialist systems require people to work and deliver rather stern punishments for skivers and malingerers, as class enemies. That seems to be going a bit far, I'm sure you'd agree.

But clearly, there have to be pathways for unemployed to re-join society through the dignity of labour; at least the remnant-Marxist in me seems to say so. It's not necessarily right-wing to expect people to work: after all, one complaint against the upper classes is that they loaf around, live off their assets and exploit brutally the labour of others. I don't think anybody (except of course pensioners, the disabled, mothers, etc.) should live off the labour of others. We should all contribute to our livelihoods if and while we can.

Cheers,

Joe

Paul, sorry for the late reply, but many work for the dole recipients struggle to get out of bed and when they do go where placed are often next to useless. I guess thats one reason they are not working hey.

You would think that for the additional $200 per week they receive, just to turn up, they could at least do that.

On that note ive employed four of them. Three duds and one with real promise, if not for the dole bludging partner that just cant get her head around why he has to go to work. Go figure.

Hasbeen still has the best idea thus far, a tent and three cans of beans a day. They will find work then.

Work for the Dole was never intended as a magical gateway to employment and has been a failure.

It was a politically motivated punitive scheme designed to sate the "righteous anger" of taxpaying voters who hate to see somebody getting something they are not entitled to. (That's what we call the Tall Poppy Syndrome but it works at every level in Australian society - from the rich to the struggling poor, we all hate free handouts).

University Studies have shown that as well as not providing employment advantages, it can actually disadvantage people because it can prevent them from seeking employment while involved in the scheme.

Examples such as painting rocks on the side of the road or being told to unravel a large bundle of cable simply don't add to your skill level or employability.

There must be better ways of spending the $646 million it costs to run the scheme.

Butch, given your general attitude you display towards workers on this forum I am not surprised you as a small time member of the employer class would have problems with workers. Them being nothing more than a necessary evil in your eyes. Go figure.

rache, $646 million, Money Bags Malcolm could direct that towards his mates at the Big Banks so they can put up a better defence at the Banking RC, they're not doing too well down there at the moment.

Rache,

Of course there are better ways to involve long-term unemployed people, TAFE or uni study for example. And there are usually more sensible projects in every community for people to work on than painting rocks. But so often, it seems, the clientele 'captures' the organiser and, between them, they dumb down any initiatives.

On one Aboriginal community, back in the days of the CDEP scheme, people were paid their two days' pay for maintaining their homes, or mowing their own lawns. Meanwhile, much of their twelve thousand acres of good land, unlimited water licence and millions of dollars of equipment, went minimally utilised. But then again, Aboriginal organisations and communities have a genius for turning every promising initiative into yet another useless welfare-oriented perk.

Cheers,

Joe

My son was given work for the Dole position, it was in the cemetery, near where his two half brothers are buried and grandparents. He was pushed by some of the other dolers and nearly broke his arm. Being a Type 1 diabetic, it wasn't the best place to send him. Anyway he was placed on a disabled pension later.

Hi there BUSH BUNNY...

I'm very sorry to hear that, placing a young bloke with Type 1 Diabetes which usually requires several injections in a 24 hour period in a cemetery, sounds a bit nonsensical to me. Especially if he sufferers from hypo's., and noneone around him, understands what first-aid is necessary for type 1's? Sounds like an omission of 'duty of care' by Centrelink to me at least?