The NSW government has ordered all hospitals to establish two waiting
rooms, one for Blanks and one for Natives.
This apparently is a national policy which like the Qld nurses policy
to ensure that aborigines are aware that white nurses have privilege.
That policy is also national policy.

So an aborigine turns up and the nurse says "I have privilege and don't you forget it !"
So do not go in there, your waiting room is down the corridor.

It is unbelievable that rules like this would be introduced these days.
But there it is right out of the premier's mouth !

//The NSW government has ordered all hospitals to establish two waiting rooms//

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/cultural-emergency-waiting-rooms-for-nsw/news-story/c6694a96129c59c66cf2bc142e920412

"While the document does not mandate separate waiting rooms for Aboriginal patients it calls for a "culturally appropriate space" within each hospital to be identified.

Hospitals may also display Aboriginal artwork as another way of being more inclusive and welcoming."

Reading further than the headline is such a chore, isn't it Bazz?

Basically all that's going happen is that hospitals will hang some Aboriginal art on their waiting room walls, and the health department will presumably cross their fingers and hope that hanging up a few paintings will magically narrow the gap. It's daft, but it's hardly 'arpartheit'.

"A trial on the mid north coast showed a 50 per cent reduction in the number of Aboriginal patients leaving early from emergency departments after cultural awareness training for staff was introduced."

This is an issue even here in my neck of the woods. There is usually a cultural liaison officer on call to try and deal with some of the feelings of fear and mistrust hospitals can induce in some of our indigenous community. This is just a part of our hospitals fulfilling their mandate of care. Only miserly old farts would begrudge it.

As far as I'm aware this is an attempt to make hospitals
more culturally aware of their local communities. To
make them more welcoming and to train their staff
appropriately towards this end. It is not mandatory, nor is
it an attempt at any sort of - "apartheid." And apparently
it is working well. The numbers of our Indigenous People
leaving the Emergency Departments of Hospitals has
decreased. They do not feel as intimated. At least it's
worth trying. Educating hospital staff seems to be the key.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/39707841/nsw-eds-to-have-cultural-waiting-rooms/

Oooops, sorry for my typo.

Arnt they lucky they can get medical attention rather than before settlement. I mean invasion day

There is certainly no apartheid implied by this policy at all.

Foxy you will understand this; When my sister-in-law passed away in the Whangarei hospice last year from cancer. I was impressed by the fact that the establishment provided a large adjoining family room to her room, where the cultural needs of her Maori family were catered for. It basically required a large number of family members, including young children, to be present 24/7, and other visitors, until our sister died. The room provided sleeping and cooking facilities. The hospice was also mindful of the need to complete the necessary paperwork quickly (done within 2 hours) so sister could make her "hikoi" (journey), first to the appropriate undertakers for dressing etc, and then ending at the Marae for a three day tangi before burial at the family urupa (cemetery) in the hills. This is seen as culturally necessary, but not the same as the European practices

Dear Paul,

I certainly do understand it. And whether its a hospital
or funeral directors, or aged care facilities, it is so
important that staff and the facilities themselves are
beginning to recognise what has to be done and that the staff
are trained and are there for people in their hours of need
be it in emergency situations, awaiting deaths, or whatever.
Thank Goodness that times are changing for the better and
that all people hopefully will be treated with the respect and
dignity that they deserve.

Rumours and rumours of rumours. They are all a pain in the bum. With each new one, there comes outrage and then denial. Best to ignore the lot of them.

Yeah, sure Paul, say it over and over, people may believe it.
I wonder if there will be cultural environments for Anglos ?
No ? Why ?

No matter which way you twist it and bend it, it is racial.
The only reason separate rooms will not be available in many hospitals
is because of the layout. Will the hospitals have separate lists of
patients ? It will be hard to manage if they do.
Will the nurses have light meters to measure the aborinallity of those
coming into emergency ? Or will they just take your word for it ?

This is all part of the madness that is being sprayed over us all.

One good thing about it apart from the unnecessary cost, It will probably make the rest of the hospital smell better

Dear Paul,

Don't react.

Best to just walk away.

"While the document does not mandate separate waiting rooms for Aboriginal patients it calls for a "culturally appropriate space" within each hospital to be identified."
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/cultural-emergency-waiting-rooms-for-nsw/news-story/c6694a96129c59c66cf2bc142e920412

Will people of other cultures be allowed to wait in Aboriginal "culturally appropriate space" and if not, why not??

If I have to go to the local emergency can I expect to have my Celtic heritage respected and my Monarchist beliefs; can I ask for a space with a picture of the Queen on the wall?

Dear Is Mise,

Most hospitals do have Chapels.

I'm sure that your wishes could be accommodated if you
gave the hospital in question enough time - and you could
bring your own picture of the Queen as well as any Celtic
ornaments that you wanted to decorate the Chapel with.
Like a Celtic Cross, for example. Each large hospital
has a Public Relations Department - that can be contacted
to see to your needs and requirements. All you have to do
is ask.

Foxy, you missed the point, if you are in the emergency area you would not go to the chapel.
You would miss your turn.

Then perhaps you could arrange to go to the chapel
after your turn in Emergency - that is if you still
feel up to it - or you feel the need or perhaps
your Minister could visit you in your room to bring
you the comfort and re-assurance that you so obviously
feel you need. I'm sure the hospital staff will do
everything they can (under these new guidelines) to make
you feel welcomed - and not excluded. That is after all
the point of all this - and the reason you're presenting
these arguments as to what's being attempted here - right?
Or are you just again - simply shyte stirring?

Foxy,

If there is a space set aside for one particular section of society and such setting aside is based on race, then that is racism and there is no getting away from it.

Racism, not so pure but definitely simple.

Hi Foxy, you make a good point about the provision of a chapel in public hospitals. As a non believer its not something I would use, but its not something I object to either. The non-denominational chapel in our local public hospital is a small but well appointed room, use by those that seek comfort at a distressing and worrying time.

Paul,

Is the chapel off limits to some because of their race?

This is segregation by another name. In the 70s in the hospitals in the Kimberley there were special toilets for indigenous people, labelled “ native toilet”. Presumably to cater for those remote dwelling people who didn’t know how to use a toilet and insisted on using the floor. Certainly none of the town dwelling part aboriginal people ever used them. Now it seems we are reverting to native only areas again, this time in the name of cultural sensitivity.
However I’m at a total loss to understand why a section of the community, raised in cities, educated in public schools, celebrated as football heroes and totally at home in restaurants, shopping centres and nightclubs would suddenly develop a feeling of fear or discomfort when obliged to wait in an emergency room. Next to all the same people they mingled with at school, footy, Kmart, Centrelink etc.
Or is it because some of them can’t be bothered waiting and this system will see them fast tracked through the system ahead of others?
And with this now happening, can we now do away with the million dollar aboriginal health centres that were specifically built for this purpose?

//Is the chapel off limits to some because of their race?//

Will certain races be prohibited from looking at the Aboriginal artwork?

"Will certain races be prohibited from looking at the Aboriginal artwork?"

Not at all, but many, of all races, may not bother; aboriginal art is akin to Guinness, in that appreciation is an acquired taste.

Big Nana

please go into politics. We need some rational thinking people.

Dear Paul,

The policy does not mandate separate waiting rooms for
Indigenous patients. What it does is - it calls for
a "culturally appropriate space," within each hospital
to be identified (like Chapels, for example). It is
not mandatory - it's simply a sense of thinking about
what is culturally appropriate and what might help the
local community. It need not just be Aboriginal - it
could be any local community, Chinese, Lebanese, Sudanese,
Indian, Italian, Sri Lankan, et cetera. It's about making
their hospital settings more culturally inclusive in ways
that best suit the community.

A trial on the Mid North Coast showed a 50% reduction of
Indigenous patients leaving early from emergency departments
after cultural awareness training for staff was introduced.

Issy, the one at POW is locked and you have to go and get the key. The notice is only in English, (as far as I can remember) so I suppose its off limits to Non-English reading people and illiterates. Since you are always bagging me for my grammar and spelling, I suppose that counts me out as well.

"A trial on the Mid North Coast showed a 50% reduction of
Indigenous patients leaving early from emergency departments
after cultural awareness training for staff was introduced."

I know many Aboriginal people on the coast in that area and they are a switched on mob.
The only ones I've known to leave the Emergency Dept 'early' are the ones that have thought better about explaining how they got hurt or they have sobered up a bit, plus those of all 'cultures' who have simply got sick of waiting.

It's all part of the ultra Left's plan to divide the community. They hate the family - they had a big win via SSM - and their Safe Schools effort is undermining kid's relationships with their parents. Identify politics is working a treat; multiculturalism has provided us with self-centred, competitive tribes, which leaves only aboriginal politics to play with. I believe it's safe to say that most Australians still have a soft spot for blackfellas, despite the Left's hitherto efforts to to isolate them physically and political by throwing our money at them. After all, there's not much more Australian than 40,000 years of blackfellas. They aren't like the multi cultis forced on us: we took an instant dislike to them. So, to get the black fellas really pissing off everyone, the Left brings in genuine apartheid. Guess who gets the blame. It's just another example of the divide and conquer methods the Left uses all over the world.

A NSW Health spokesperson stated that:

"The policy is flexible, allowing the local health districts
to carry out initiatives in consultation with their local
Aboriginal community to make their hospital settings more
culturally inclusive in ways that best suit the community."

In the state's west, according to The Border Mail, the
Wiradjuri language and imagery has been incorporated into
the Forbes and Parkes hospitals.

Imagine that.

Not turning up for dialysis treatment has certainly shortened the life of a number of Indigeneous. Sometimes they choose the drink before treatment. Teaching some personal responsibility is not pc but would increase life expectancy.

Equality!!

I want the nurses and doctors at our local to be more culturally aware of the divide between the Celts and the English.

I might even have a go at getting some recognition of Brehon Law at the local Court House.

The only reason why the government has relaxed the decision about
separate areas, ie rooms, is because hospitals are pointing out that
new buildings do not have space for separate rooms as the building is complete.
I heard this being discussed at the local hospital by a couple of
nurses while my wife was in there last week.

Dear Is Mise,

I wouldn't worry about making sure that nurses and doctors
or any hospital staff -
know about the Celts and the English. Most people know that
the Celts are the most hospitable people you could hope to
find anywhere. They are welcomed wherever they are.

As for bringing in Brehon Law into your local court house?
Now that would be an ambitious undertaking indeed.
Who would translate the official rendings, of these
laws written in the most archaic forms of the
Gaelic language, and where would
you find an arbitrator, umpire and expounder of the law ?

Here is a question I have not heard asked;
Does a part Phillipino European nurse have to declare her 50% privilege ?

There are lots of them in the San Hospital.
It is a pity that Gilbert & Sullivan have died.

Is it too much to hope that a present day composer could produce a
musical farce of our present society ?
Perhaps he/she would be prosecuted for hate speach

I mean, if you didn't laugh at it all you would have to cry !

Dear Bazz,

Firstly you need to get your facts right about
"White Privilege," Media Watch had quite an
expose on it. I'll look up the link for you.

cont'd ...

Here's the link:

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4821769.htm

Go ahead and cry.

I'll join you, but for different reasons.

Good link, Foxy, that puts a somewhat different slant on things.

Foxy, as usual many people got sucked in by the obfuscations of the ABC. Frequently it’s not what they say, it’s what they omit.
In their fact check of the Nurses and Midwives Code of Conduct, which they quote, they neglected to mention the glossary at the back, the area the quote about white privilege was taken from.
In the glossary, the definition of cultural safety includes the words “acknowledgment of white privilege”
The following is pasted from the Nurses and Midwives Code of Conduct from the glossary at the back. Look in the sentence beginning “ In relation to Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander health “

“ Cultural safety is a philosophy of practice that is about how a health professional does something, not [just] what they do. It is about how people are treated in society, not about their diversity as such, so its focus is on systemic and structural issues and on the social determinants of health. Cultural safety represents a key philosophical shift from providing care regardless of difference, to care that takes account of peoples’ unique needs. It requires nurses and midwives to undertake an ongoing process of self-reflection and cultural self-awareness, and an acknowledgement of how a nurse’s/midwife’s personal culture impacts on care. In relation to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health, cultural safety provides a de-colonising model of practice based on dialogue, communication, power sharing and negotiation, and the acknowledgment of white privilege. These actions are a means to challenge racism at personal and institutional levels, and to establish trust in healthcare encounters (CATSINaM, 2017b, p. 11). In focusing on clinical interactions, particularly power inequity between patient and health professional, cultural safety calls for a genuine partnership where power is shared between the individuals and cultural groups involved in healthcare. Cultural safety is also relevant to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health professionals. Non-Indigenous nurses and midwives must address how they create a culturally safe work environment that is free of racism for their Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander colleagues (CATSINaM, 2017a).

Well Foxy, now that you have read Big Nana's comments you can cry.
Certainly the ABC put a different slant on it but as I heard after the
code was approved and distributed an annex was added, which includes the glossary.
I used to always watch Media Watch, but Q&A has become such a lefty
rant that I generally get into something else by that time.
I am one of those big numbers who have given it up.
I only watch it if it is going to be about electricity generation.
Even then what I hear there annoys me no end as the pollies just do not have a clue.
Must go to bed, good night

I told you all months ago they're teaching Marxism right in the University courses, and what else would you expect from leftist University people?

You can't pass without becoming potilically indoctrinated.

This won't be confined to one course, this will be every course.

//I told you all months ago they're teaching Marxism right in the University courses, and what else would you expect from leftist University people?

You can't pass without becoming potilically indoctrinated.

This won't be confined to one course, this will be every course.//

Really? Every course, huh?

Well, since you obviously know so much about Marxism and how it is taught, do you think you might be able to explain for us simpletons without IQ's of 217 how Marxist theory can be applied to the study of chemistry?

I obviously went to a 2nd-rate uni, because in not one of my lectures did that subject ever come up. So I can't really see what Marxism has to do with chemistry, although I assume the connection must exist (if only in AC's mind).

I imagine that Marxist chemists would rename the noble gases as 'the bourgeois gases' because the snooty buggers don't like sharing. Presumably they'd also be opposed to any covalently bonded molecules with a net dipole moment, which would be a bit of a bugger (H20 would be bourgeois molecule in Marxist chemistry).

Or is it not like that at all, AC?

Toni, they have started it in schools. Home Ed classes, teachers are now saying; "Children, to make a good 'Bolshevik' you are going to need two Stalinist eggs, a cup of Lenin flour and a pinch of Trotsky. One student asked "Teach, where do you get Stalinist eggs?" the sharp reply came back "From RED chickens of course!"

I did Modern History at school, they tough me about Hitler, now I'm a Nazi!

Sieg Heil and I'll catch you later.

AC,

Regarding your comments on what universities teach, a survey completed in 2017 by the IPA revealed that 81 per cent of Australian universities are “actively hostile" to free speech.

Nothing we didn't know or suspect. I find the suggestion that there 19% who are OK with free speech a bit suss, though.

Dear Big Nana,

Kindly go back and read the link that I gave from
Media Watch. It will clarify things for you.

As pointed out in the transcript - "The glossary
is not the code that nurses must adhere to. Nurses
are not required, forced, or even encouraged to announce
their white privilege to patients before treating them,
or indeed at all."

Dear Bazz,

I'll leave the crying entirely up to you.

It may help.

Foxy,

Then why is it in the glossary?

"glossary
ˈɡlɒs(ə)ri/
noun
an alphabetical list of words relating to a specific subject, text, or dialect, with explanations; a brief dictionary."

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=glossary+meaning&rlz=1C1CAFB_enAU718AU718&oq=glossary&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.6487j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Dear Is Mise,

Because a glossary is simply a list of terms that
may be unfamiliar to some readers. Go back and re-read
the Media Watch transcript that I gave earlier. It
explains that it is not the code that nurses must adhere
to.

Foxy,
I do suggest you read Big Nana's post (on page 4).

As usual this poster makes more practical sense than most. Me thinks Big Nana has sorted the real reason they now want separate waiting areas.

Advantage is the word, not culture. Runner has already mentioned about aborigines not turning up for dialysis. That requires personal responsibility.

Dear Banjo,

I've already read Big Nana's post.
I have also responded to it.

Foxy,
Your response was in relation to Big Nana's second post. I was referring to her first post on page 4, where the real reason for aboriginals wanting a separate waiting room is revealed.

Big Nana has a year, or two, working in Darwin hospital, so I guess she may have a little more experience with aboriginal patients than most of us.

Foxy, the glossary gives the definition of cultural safety for the use of nurses and midwives. And no, nurses aren’t asked to state or say anything about their white privilege, however they are asked to acknowledge it. Granted this probably means internal acknowledgment but that is just as offensive to nurses as publicly acknowledging it.
Many nurses come from deprived backgrounds, there are those who have had a more deprived upbringing than some aboriginal people, who have had equal rights in every area apart from census counting for at least half a century.
White privilege hasn’t existed in this country for some time now. Minority groups Including race based groups have access to a greater range of services and facilities than any middle class white person these days.

Dear Banjo,

Big Nana's expertise has been acknowledged many times
on this forum.

Dear Big Nana,

I appreciate your comments.

//teachers are now saying; "Children, to make a good 'Bolshevik' you are going to need two Stalinist eggs, a cup of Lenin flour and a pinch of Trotsky.//

Jesus, what sort of bastardised recipe was she working off? That's nothing like a proper Bolshevik. You should be using a 1:4 flour/dust mix due to wheat shortages, and you're missing the food colouring (or blood, if you want to be really traditional - only one egg and less flour will be needed if using blood) to give it that proper red colouring.

//I did Modern History at school, they tough me about Hitler, now I'm a Nazi!//

You poor bastard, they taught me about the space race and now I'm an astronaut.

But when I got to Uni, my science and math lectures were sadly deficient on the subject of Marxism. It wasn't even covered in the philosophy electives I chose.

I feel I've been gypped. Why did my lecturers not teach me about Marxism when apparently they do at every other University in the land? What the hell is the use of a physics course that doesn't teach you about Marxwell's Laws of Electromagnetism?

Although I suppose it doesn't matter too much when you're an astronaut. Rocket science isn't Marxist, it's Nazi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio

//I was referring to her first post on page 4, where the real reason for aboriginals wanting a separate waiting room is revealed.//

This bit?

//Or is it because some of them can’t be bothered waiting and this system will see them fast tracked through the system ahead of others?//

I'm going to assume it was that bit. Because that's what it's all about for some of you cranky old Tories, isn't it? You assume that any initiative intended to benefit the lives of Aboriginal people must necessarily involve a disadvantage to anyone who's non-Indigenous, and in particular yourself.

I've seen nothing in any of the reports I've read on this subject to suggest that the nurses and doctors in emergency rooms will be basing their decisions on anything other than well-established triage practices. Frankly, I think it is a disgusting insult to the professional integrity of these hardworking men and women to suggest they would base decisions about triage on racist, rather than medical, principles.

But hey, if that's what's bothering you so much, you know what they say: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Want to skip the queue next time you go to emergency? All you have to do is go sit with all the blackfellas in their special blackfella waiting room, where government officials come along every half hour to give out free money so you can gamble to keep you amused while you wait.

Anybody can sit in the blackfella waiting room - in a lot of cases it will just be a bit of the proper waiting room, but with some of those dot paintings they like and some special chairs with the international symbol for a blackfella (it's like the little man on toilet doors, but he's black and he holds a spear) to show who the seats are reserved for.

But here's the trick: nobody will be checking your blackfella ID card. All the nurses are too busy to bother about who's really Aborginal and who's not. So, lifehack, just hold your nose and sit with all the stinky blackfellas and you can have your gout seen to way ahead of that bloke with half his arm hanging off in the white waiting room. If you think you've been waiting too long, all you have to do is scream at the nurses that your people were here first so you should be first in the queue and call them racist [expletive deleted]'s for good measure, and they'll just go ahead and bump you up the queue regardless of whatever else is happening.

So there you go Bazz & co, just give that a try next time you have to go to hospital. You shouldn't get angry at the system, you should learn to make it work for you. I give you an iron-clad guarantee that if you take my advice on your next visit to a hospital, it will yield unexpected and fortuitous results.

I have to disagree with the premise that aboriginal people don’t wait around in emergency because they feel uncomfortable or threatened. Perhaps this is so in the city, but up north, where aboriginal health truly is appalling at times, the waiting room is far more likely to be intimidating to white people because the majority of the patients are black.
And in hospitals across the north aboriginal paintings are strung everywhere, hell the children’s ward in The Royal Darwin has a huge rainbow serpent slithering along one wall.
No, the reason they don’t wait is because they can’t be bothered and because good health isn’t a priority for them, until it becomes urgent and they come by ambulance.
The majority of patients, black and white, are waiting to be seen for conditions they should have gone to see a gp about, and so, they are made to wait for long periods whilst staff attend the actual urgent ones.
The proportion of aboriginal patients who don’t wait is actually quite small up here. Most have become accustomed to the system and realise whether they use the public hospital or the Aboriginal Health Service, they will still have to wait.
Those who refuse to wait need to accept the consequences of their own actions. The churches were condemned for years for their paternalistic treatment of aboriginal people , now it seems the government is bent on taking on that role.

The facts as taken from the link given below are as
follows:

"Indigenous Australians currently experience significantly poorer
health status than non-Indigenous Australians. Their life
expectancy at birth is 10.6 years less for males and 9.5 years
less for females and Indigenous Australians are twice as likely
to rate their health as "fair" or "poor" compared with non-
Indigenous Australians.

While the causes and injury for any community operate within
broad environmental, social and personal factors, the health system
CAN assist with prevention through population health programs,
provide an immediate response to acute illness and injury and
protect good health through screening, early intervention and
treatment.

Evidence from Australia, the United States, and New Zealand
indicate that health care can contribute to closing the gap
in life expectancy between Indigenous and non-Indigenous
populations. Inequalities in health care access and use may
act to further exacerbate inequalities in health status.
Access to health care when needed is therefore essential in
closing the gap to life expectancy."

Therefore policies such as those being discussed here,
that make hospitals more
inclusive with their local communities are so important.

http://www.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/indigenous/Health-Performance-Framework-2014/tier-3-health-system-performance/314-access-services-compared-need.html

Foxy, you seemed to miss the line where it says access to health care is important!
The access is there, in fact there are more health services for indigenous people than anyone else, it’s personal responsibility that is missing and quite frankly these current day policies of treating aboriginal people like children have led to worse outcomes than in the past.
Do you realise that school attendance in rural and remote areas is lower than 40 years ago? That unemployment is higher than 40 years ago?
And did you ever ask yourself why?
Why has this happened when today’s aboriginal people don’t face anywhere near the hurdles, discrimination and disadvantages their grandparents faced?
And certainly health and education services have improved immensely in these areas but still some are doing worse than ever.
Why?

'The access is there, in fact there are more health services for indigenous people than anyone else' some people love to live in denial Big Nana.

When is somebody going to explain to us why, after all the money that has been the thrown at the 'problem', there are kids in remote areas who are illiterate when the same kid's grandparents were able to read and write? Perhaps the 'progressives' could try explaining the total lack of progress or, more correctly, the absolute regression that has occurred?.

The poor state of Indigenous people today needs to be seen in the
historic context of broader attitudes and policies about Aborigines
and Torres Strait Islander people enacted by state and territory
governments.

The Commonwealth has only had the power
to act in Indigenous affairs since 1967,
and only recently has it generally been accepted that
Indigenous people should have control over their own lives and
enjoy the same rights as other Australians.

The reason why the health of Indigenous people is worse than for
non-Indigenous people are complex, but represent a combination of
general factors (like education, employment, income, and socio
economic status) and health sector factors (like NOT having
access to culturally appropriate services or support). Cutting
funding and closing centres does not help the situation.

Within the health sector, there is according to various reports
a need for:

1) More health advancement programs.
2) Better identification of health conditions before they become
serious.
3) More primary health care services that are accessible to
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.
4) Greater cultural competence of service providers.

Making and combining these changes are important to the long
term future of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people
and for strengthening strategies to improve health outcomes.

Health improvements for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
population will require commitment by all Australian governments.
A greater focus on the lessons learned from strengths based
indicators and practices, collaboration and culturally respectful
policy and program development will make a strong and long
lasting contribution to positive health outcomes for
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the years to
come.

Is that you plagiarising government propaganda, Foxy?

Dear ttbn,

It's called doing research on the topic.

I highly recommend it.

Foxy, that reads like it was cut and pasted from some indigenous government site.
You didn’t address my question, which was why some aboriginal people are now doing worse than their grandparents and great grandparents.
You can’t bring up the old arguments about disadvantage, discrimination etc because the past two generations haven’t suffered that. Their ancestors did, yet somehow some were more literate and more employed than today’s generation.
You also failed to address the glaring fact that the very worst health and educational outcomes are from people who are living on their own land, speaking their own language and free to practise their own culture whenever they wish. They have health clinics staffed by Aboriginal Health Workers and live in communities where the population is 99% aboriginal at least and the whole place is managed by an elected aboriginal council.
They have the perfect environment for cultural safety yet look at the outcomes.

Hi Foxy,

It's polite to use quotation marks when copying 'research'. Some people get upset when people pinch their work, although, judging by the stilted formality of the piece, it was written by a bureaucrat, not a real human; so probably nothing to worry about.

Dear ttbn,

The information that I gave earlier came from more than one
site on the web - plus my own opinions as well. Hence
I did not choose to use quotation marks. Although
I always usually do as a rule.

In any case - when
you give quotation marks yourself, as well as
your sources for
any of your postings - then you may be in a position to
criticize me.

Dear Big Nana,

I'm not here to argue with you. Your opinions on
our Indigenous people's problems are well known on
this forum. And of course you are entitled to them.
I prefer to research a variety of sources - and check
and see how they relate to each other. All of them seem
to be saying the same thing.

You spoke about Indigenous websites? Well here's one that
sums things up rather well:

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/hospitals-doctors-health-aboriginal-people

Foxy, it’s not my opinion that says indigenous people in remote areas have the worst outcomes in health, it’s government data. And no, I don’t get my information from non official web sites like Creative Spirits.
A government study of indigenous/non indigenous health outcomes in all areas, urban, regional, remote, very remote shows that very remote indigenous people have the worst outcomes and that despite all the extra aboriginal health workers, clinics in communities, living on their own land with language and culture etc. indigenous people in very remote areas do worse than non indigenous. Even though they have far more services!
Here is the closing paragraph

“ The results of an additional statistical analysis by AIHW showed that the odds that a hospitalisation was potentially preventable was 1.5 times as high for Indigenous Australians compared with non-Indigenous Australians (even after controlling for the age, sex, and remoteness of the person who was hospitalised). Indigenous status therefore appears to have a larger effect than remoteness on whether a hospitalisation was for a potentially preventable condition.”

Here is the study.
https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/3fae0eb7-b2be-4ffc-9903-a414388af557/7_7-indigenous-health-remoteness.pdf.aspx

Big Nana,

When you post a link, remove the 's' from 'https' and the link will be reachable by a simple click.

I really appreciate your posts.

Foxy,

I always quote if I'm passing on information from other people, and thereby identify them. However, as most of the things I post are my own opinions, I am the source. I'm aware that you and some others allow 'experts' to dictate your opinions; I do not. OLO is an organ where ordinary people like me can express our opinions freely. If I, or anyone else, 'thinks' something, well, that's what we think, and we don't have to justify our thoughts to anyone; nor do we have to carry on about, or refer to, anyone else to justify our opinions. And, of course, we do not have abide by your guidelines as to when we can criticise. As you clearly don't take kindly to criticism, I'm quite happy to cease and desist, as they say. But, I would just like to make one last comment. You don't have to take notice of anything I say about anything at all. But, on this subject, In think you will find that Big Nana has personal knowledge and understanding, and your continual back chat to her is not really all that smart. A bit goose-like.

Dear Big Nana,

You seem to have missed the point that I have been
making all along in this discussion - and that is
that Indigenous people have the worst outcomes in
health. I have been quoting from government data
and other sources about remote areas. Including
sites like Creative Spirits (that don't have an
agenda, and are used by schools, teachers, students,
universities - covering one of the most neglected
topics in this country - that of Aboriginal culture,
and providing lists of books, teaching ideas, infographics,
et cetera). The last Creative Spirits site that I gave
helps explain - as to - WHY - this problem exists
among the Indigenous people.
A pity that you brushed it aside.

Cheers.

Dear ttbn,

Your posting record speaks for itself.
Nothing more needs to be said.

Foxy, I read the Creative Spirits link and especially the section on how to make hospitals work for aboriginal people. I have read such garbage in my life!
Some of the suggestions:
Speak to the patient in their own language! Well, not sure how that would work, because in 2018 you would be struggling to find any aboriginal person who spoke no English. Even 50 years ago we could communicate with the very remote people using Kriol. These days of Foxtel, Netflix, dvds etc which are all in English and all available in communities ensures everyone can make their needs known.
Give books and diaries printed in a culturally appropriate way! I can’t even uunderstand what that means. Dots running around the pages? Rainbow serpent slithering across the cover? Written in Kriol which is not only an insult to educated aboriginal people but is only spoken by a few remote people these days.
Aboriginal people from the Stolen generation distrust white medical staff! Considering
that most removed children were raised and educated with white people and many of the girls went on to become nurses or nursing assistants I find that statement ridiculous.
And from personal experience with full blood patients, they far prefer white staff to African staff or Asian staff. And as someone with 30 years nursing remote aboriginal children I can say that dislike or distrust was never an issue. The mothers of the children I cared for were friendly, even affectionate at times and certainly once the really bush ones had overcome their initial shyness they had no hesitation in leaving their babies with us for the day whilst they took off shopping or playing cards. Hardly a sign of distrust eh?
(Cont)

(Cont)
No, there are legitimate reasons for aboriginal people not wanting to be in hospital and it might surprise you to know that those reasons are similar to those of white people. Women worry about who will care for their children whilst away, especially if their husband is a heavy drinker. Both men and women are very jealous and possessive about their partners and worry the partner will play up whilst they are gone. Grandmothers worry about the grandchildren in their care. Bush people don’t like the city and are lonely because they don’t know anyone there . Etc etc.
Absolutely nothing to dot painting on walls or the colour of the doctors skin.
And I havent missed your point at all. I acknowledged that aboriginal people have worse health outcomes. But what I tried to show you was, not just from my own experience, but from the study that was done, was looking at the reasons why.
What that study showed is that very remote people were 1.5 times more likely to need hospitalisation for a preventable disorder even though those people were living in their own land, with their own culture and language and their health needs attended by aboriginal health workers in a clinic with walls covered with aboriginal painting situated within easy access of their houses.
Compare that to white people in very remote areas who don’t have any clinics on their pastoral leases or pearl farms or plantations and have to be content with visiting nurses and doctors from Air medical services or drive to the closest aboriginal community and use the same facilities as the aboriginal people.
Yet aboriginal people in those areas are far more likely to be admitted to hospital. Why? Some of the reasons are non compliance with medication, refusal to change lifestyle, very poor personal and domestic hygiene, neglecting medical appointments.
All of these issues require personal responsibility, not more cultural safety.

Dear Big Nana,

See you on another discussion.

This one for me has run its course.

Cheers.

Foxy,

“Dear ttbn,

Your posting record speaks for itself.
Nothing more needs to be said.”

Well, I should jolly well hope so: that's what it's all about. What a strange thing to say. What does your posting record speak for? The ABC, Fairfax, Google – all things to the Left?

I must say that I'm glad that its always a woman, Big Nana in the this case, who talks you to a standstill. No accusations of misogyny or bullying possible.

“This one for me has run its course”, as you always say when your run out of hot air.

Dear ttbn,

Once again you can't help being offensive.
You have to stoop to personal insults.
I haven't run out of "hot air" as you so
eloquently put it. Rather I usually walk
away because I don't want to say things
that may offend. So I bow out.

However, for your information and those of
others - here is a link that gives a
good perspective to this discussion. Its
by Professor Jon Altman. He's been visiting
Aboriginal Communities in remote Australia for
over 40 years and in the last decade he writes
about what he's observed.
It's worth a read:

http://newmatilda.com/2018/03/26/gap-widened-refresh-policy-approach-remote-indigenous-australia/

Foxy,

It is indeed worth a read, but the gist of the article seems to be more money,

He talks of high food prices but how can this be?

Don't those in remote communities grow crops?
Have the kangaroos died out?
The price of ammunition is not high, especially if the hunters in the communities reload; no one expects them to use spears these days.

Where there are waterways in much of Northern Australia there are fish, other marine creatures and crocodiles and croc meat is very good.
Water also means buffalo, again good meat and it is not difficult to get a large supply of meat from these pests.
In the dryer country there are camels for the taking as well as donkeys and horses.

There are an estimated 750,000 camels, 400,000 wild horse and some 5,000,000 donkeys.

Lots of tucker.

Dear Is Mise,

It's always good to read from various perspectives
isn't it? My point in this discussion was to
try to present various viewpoints so that those of
us who don't live in remote communities and have no
or little dealings with our Indigenous people can
try to grasp the enormity and complexity of the
problems involved. Anyway, as I stated to ttbn,
I'm not comfortable with continuing this discussion
any further when I see that things are veering
towards not what I had intended. I certainly don't want
to find myself saying things that may offend someone.
So I'll bow out.
Thanks for understanding.

Another 'link' Foxy! Even after you say "I usually walk
away because I don't want to say things
that may offend". This one from the extreme Left New Matilda.

You will never walk away, Foxy, because you must have the last say, no matter how daft your arguments are, or how naive it is to keep putting up barrages of links that will obviously come up with the same stuff you do.

As for my being offensive well, there will always be someone offended by what someone else says. Nothing would ever be said if we had to worry about someone being offended. If I took offence at everything said to me - including the stuff you come up with - I wouldn't get out of bed in the mornings. Being offended is a weakness, not a protection against something you don't wish to hear. If you truly believe that I am offensive to you, you might be happier not bothering with my posts - you have threatened me with 'excommunication' in the past. You might like to try threating me like you did poor old 'leoj', but I assure I will not disappear as he did.

Offence has nothing to do with your opinions being disagreed with. OLO is part of the real world, not your kitchen table, where I'm sure you reign supreme.

Dear ttbn,

For your information - I reigned supreme not only at the
kitchen table, but in the dining-room, nursery, bedroom,
and every other part of my home. Then there's - special
libaries, Regional public libraries, university libraries,
and -
university lecture theatres, Storytime Sessions for kids,
Book Clubs, and lately entertaining the elderly. And that's
just listing a few.

I've now got to run - can't talk anymore - I'm too busy
being fabulous!

Have a nice day!