From CNN
"A 17-year-old male student shot two other students at Great Mills High School in Maryland on Tuesday morning [of last week] before a school resource officer engaged him and stopped the threat, authorities said.

The incident began in a school hallway at 7:55 a.m., just before classes started. Authorities say Austin Wyatt Rollins, armed with a handgun, shot a female and a male student. The shooter had a prior relationship with the female student, St. Mary's County Sheriff Tim Cameron said.
School resource officer Blaine Gaskill responded to the scene in less than a minute, the sheriff said. Gaskill fired a round at the shooter, and the shooter fired a round simultaneously."
http://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/20/us/great-mills-high-school-shooting/index.html

Last weeks school shooting in Maryland, where the criminal got a swift comeuppance barely made the Australian news, a few TV channels mentioned it briefly and a leading newspaper, the Sydney Morning Herald, buried it on page 17.
Nor has there been any local praise for the School resource officer Blaine Gaskill, who acted with such brave and decisive swiftness.

There were no follow-ups, no interviews, none of the usual 'talking heads' had a word to say, and the Greens and GCA were thunderous in their silence.

Perhaps the body count wasn't high enough to interest the usual anti USA and anti-firearms crowd.

Jaelynn Willey, the first victim, has unfortunately died. Her death also barely rated a mention.

Dear Is Mise,

Really? Why are you doing this on a weekend when the youth of America stood up so powerfully and eloquently against the gun culture which repeatedly threatens them and takes their lives within their own schools? I have been so impressed by their strength and determination to affect change. More strength to their arm.

As to your raising the Maryland shooting as a some kind of validation for your warped views, don't be so bloody inane.

The armed student only fired one round which struck his former girlfriend and another student. He then placed the pistol to his own head. Gaskill came around a corner over a minute later and fired at the youngster but there is not indication his shot even struck him. Indeed there is every indication that the student instead took his own life.

And do we really know how Blaine Gaskill would have reacted if the shooter was spraying rounds from an AR15 rather than standing there with the firearm at his temple? Of course not.

There is not a shred of equivalence here and for you to be attempting to prove otherwise is a sad indictment on yourself. Once again I say Shame!

Issy... I'm anti guns... GUNS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE!

Trust you to be a right wing gun nutter...lmao...

You will notice that the kids have taken over the assylum called the USA, and they will punish all the other nutters like you to correct some absurd laws to better protect American Citizens and children.

Your on the wrong side of history in everything you think Issy - Oh look you are there again...lmao

Good to see the US kids being so grown-up and leaving the adults in their wake!

Rick Santorum a Republican ex-US Senator and Ex Presidential candidate said...

“How about kids instead of looking to someone else to solve their problem, do something about maybe taking CPR classes or trying to deal with situations that when there is a violent shooter that you can actually respond to that,” the Republican said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rick-santorum-students-should-learn-cpr-not-seek-gun-laws/2018/03/25/57cb532c-3070-11e8-b6bd-0084a1666987_story.html?utm_term=.88247a455033

I thought that was what Governments were for Rick baby... There are no kids in the Congress or the Senate of the USA to change the l;aw and the kids were doing something both independently and as a group action to force change!

WHAT A GOOSE!

Are you related to him Issy?...lmao You could be brothers...lmao

You probably have the same backward thinking genes...lmao

Right wing craziness is on it's way out Issy...Time for you to grow a brain or forget how to type!...lmao

It's a waste of time talking to them Is Mise.

A few thousand kids have a rally, the left media play it up way beyond its importance, & our ratbag Greens talk about it as if it was millions.

Meanwhile they pretend the millions who want no part of the anti gun lobby don't exist.

Meanwhile the people of France are getting shot, stabbed & burnt alive by a bunch of religious nut Muslims, who should never have been let into the country, & they decry any sensible people who don't want any more of them let in here.

Useful idiots who will still think they were right, as the sword falls to chop off their head.

Obviously too many adult students in the US, as in Au.

The old addage, "youth is wasted on the youth", is true, but we as a society should not be assisting this truism in ways that we do.

Youth need a sense of their own worth, and a development of self sufficiency; they need in their youth, to contact the reality of survival in the real world.

Obviously this is a missing link when children are kept in an overprotective environment of a school, which now includes, in some cases, periods of years of adulthood. We are breeding generations of disconnected and unempathetic nut cases for the future.

And so the rise in the incidence of mental illness, which thinks sincerely, justice is best achieved at the pointy end of a gun!

Hasbeen...Like you the people who are against change are on the wrong side of history and backward thinking.

A few thousand? You can't even be trusted with statistical information you are that deluded...lmao

Step out of the way..The young are taking back the common sense position in society.

Like in the "Me too" movement people are sick of the garbage that has been accepted by society.

Change is happening Hasbeen stop trying to divert things with your crap.

What is happe3ning in France isn't correct but combining the two simply makes you look irrelevant to any common sense discussion.

OOps! You already were...lmao

There were millions of kids who marched for gun control... Not a few thousand like you are lying to say.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/march-for-our-lives-protest-millions-to-join-american-kids-marching-for-gun-control/news-story/b5b506c80b435aa1e54f0f83eb6e61d4

You are so lacking in principle that lying is nothing to you...

You are a lousy propagandist but fun to laugh at...lmao

I'm laughing loudly - Loser!...lmao

Op2,

Welcome back, your well reasoned and moderate replies are always a pleasure to read and I, and no doubt many others, look forward to your future contributions.

G'day Issy, been on a unpaid sabbatical to the not so sunshine state. Just catching up.

Thought you were onto a winner with this one, yeah right! Steele as per usual has nailed your hide to the barn door. I can't add anything to that, other that to give you this weeks 'Lead Balloon' award, that makes about a zillion such awards for you over the years, right!

A little gem. "Op2... your well reasoned and moderate replies are always a pleasure to read"

Yeah! "WHAT A GOOSE!

Are you related to him Issy? (the goose)...lmao You could be brothers (brother goose's)...lmao

You probably have the same backward thinking genes (goose genes)...lmao

Right wing craziness is on it's way out Issy (goodbye goose)...Time for you to grow a brain (goose brain) or forget how to type!...lmao

How often an arrogant opinion might be correct. I agree often with you on a number of issues, but guns, we just can't see barrel to eye, so to speak.

I was up in Queensland last week, meself; tell me, Paul, what is the glue that holds the Greens together, can't be a natural product?

As for Steele, well, when he starts to give references that back up his observations then we'll all be much better informed.

A bunch of know-nothing school kids taking the chance to have a few days off lessons and/or throwing tantrums about things they really don't understand, aren't going to change anyone's mind. Gun laws won't change any time soon no matter how many whiny kids get on CNN.

But one of the interesting views being expressed on the whole mass-shooting phenomena in the wake of the recent events, is the research showing how the vast majority of these shooters are young men who have been raised without a father figure.

Stephen Baskerville, a professor at Patrick Henry College, says “by far the main predictor of shooting rampages — along with all other criminality and virtually every social pathology among young males — is a home without a father.”

“From shootings at MIT (i.e., the Tsarnaev brothers) to the University of Central Florida to the Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Decatur, Ga., nearly every shooting over the last year in Wikipedia’s ‘list of U.S. school attacks’ involved a young man whose parents divorced or never married in the first place.”

The link between dysfunctional young men and fatherless households has been long observed. But it seems to me that it is being canvassed much more thoroughly recently Cruz fits right into the pattern.

Everyone from the school to the sheriff to the FBI ignored or circumvented the rules and laws in this case to allow Cruz to remain free and able to access guns. Making new laws when the old laws aren't even enforced seems like an exercise in uselessness.

Fixing the disintegration of the family structure is a monumental and multi-generational problem, but it is attacking the problem at its roots.

G'day again Issy,

When we were kids in the bush, the sap from the Wattle made a very good natural glue, organic, sustainable, very Green indeed. I would see you as a bit of a 'Perkins Paste' fella myself.

Issy. the way I read the story, its a case of teenage love gone wrong. Sad, no matter what happened, who shot who, there's no winners. No need to try and score points on this one, by gloating that some gunnie freak who was not even a teacher, came along at the instant the deranged child blew is own brains out. This could happen anywhere, at anytime.

After all the marching is over, what will be achieved?

Will the mental health programs be reviewed?

Will a decent health care policy be put in place?

Will those in the front line, i.e. school staff be allowed to defend themselves?

By the latest accounts, the Resource Officer's shot hit the criminal's gun.

Dear mhaze,

Stephen Baskerville served as the president of the American Coalition of Fathers and Children, hardly an impartial source.

Let's have a look at his and your contention using your logic.

The vast majority of mass shooters are white. The Children in single-parent families rates for non-Hispanic whites is around 25%. But for non-Hispanic Blacks it is 67%.

67% is very close to the 75% figure Baskerville touts for mass shooters who are from fatherless families. But non-Hispanic blacks are far less likely to be involved in a mass shootings compared to their population ratio.

The ultimate conclusion of course is the being white is a primary precursor to the development of a mass shooter, markedly more than the family situation.

Wouldn't you agree?

Dear Is Mise,

Oh just stop. Not a single bloody word from you about stronger gun regulations which are a proven way to reduce the number of mass shootings. Deflect, deflect, deflect. Sure the things you mention may play their part but nothing like controlling assault styled weapons.

As to arming school staff this particular 'resource officer' was a military veteran of 6 years with SWAT training. Should that now be the minimum requirement for being employed at a school?

What a warped world you are trying to create for us.

Will those in the front line, i.e. school staff be allowed to defend themselves?

Tssy, the latest thinking on that score, as championed by Field Marshall Haig. A week of bombardment with heavy cannon should see the enemy completely demoralized. Then we shall send a million men 'over the top' into 'No Mans Land', and within hours the enemies trenchers will be ours!

Seems as sensible a plan as yours!

Steele,

Then, in your opinion, what is the short-term solution?
The solution for the teacher confronted by a killer in the near future?

Controlling "assault type weapons" is going to take a long time and with current trends a lot of dead kids and teachers.

Perhaps you might also inform us how the magical stronger gun regulation is going to be enforced in the US, how long it will take and the expected compliance rate?

Give us all the benefits of your deep thinking.

The only reason a population is allowed guns is to kill other people. There is very little threat from wildlife. Australia has a successful policy on guns. 1. Restrict the availability of ammunition. 2. Remove the right of any citizen to have guns. 3. Have police and security the only ones allowed to carry loaded fire arms. 4. Secure all schools and search persons entering for guns and knives. It has always been an offense in Australia to enter a school with a knife or weapon. I can remember in the 1950's a boy in high School being expelled and charged for bringing a knife to school. America has moved on from the wild west so their constitution needs to change to represent a civilized society. Then only illegal held by criminals and trained security would be able to carry firearms, and with sniffer dogs identify concealed ammunition.

Josephus,

" It has always been an offense in Australia to enter a school with a knife or weapon".

Where did you get that from?

When I went to school most of the lads had a pocket knife and at the only country school that I attended (1941-1942) it was common for the kids that were running trap lines on the way to and from school, to bring their.22 rifles with them and leave them with the Head Teacher during school hours.
Then there were the School Cadets who had .303 Service rifles and brought them to school on training days.

Just out of curiosity, how would you protect kids and teachers from an attacker, not some time in the distant future, but next week?

"The only reason a population is allowed guns is to kill other people."

Is that so?

Just where is this place?

Here in Australia, people are allowed to have guns for target shooting, clay pigeon shooting, Western Action, IPSC, feral animal control, farm use (putting down sick/injured stock rtc.), hunting feral and game animals and not forgetting historical re-enactments and collecting firearms of thematic or historical value.

There are multiple reasons.

Dear Is mise,

Bloody hell mate you need to give it a rest with your inane question. Every time you receive an answer you dismiss it and roll the thing out again like you are a Tourettes sufferer.

Here is another answer for you, you move your police force buildings into the schools to protect them. And another, you disband all smaller schools that are too expensive to protect and you enforce home schooling on the students who can't attend larger and better protected facilities. And another, you bring back all the military personnel which the US has stationed overseas (something Trump touted anyway) and you set them the task of protecting the schools.

Now go for it.

Steele,

Hardly practical and it doesn't answer the question, because the question is what can be done immediately to give the teachers and the students a chance?

Key word: Immediately.

Dear Is Mise,

Try this. Immediately post all actively non-essential Stateside military personnel to all schools across the country to protect them until troops serving overseas can be brought back to help fill those positions.

If you truly cared for these kids instead of your guns wouldn't you want an overwhelming military response? America has gone to war over fewer deaths of its citizens.

Steele,

So you finally have an immediate solution, good for you, and an immediate solution that involves the use of guns; nice turnaround.

You might find this link interesting, seeing as we are now of like mind.

"Arming teachers may be a "terrible" or even a "ridiculous" idea to critics, but some teachers across the country already bring guns to school.

In the wake of the Florida school shooting, the debate over whether teachers should carry guns in class has intensified. President Donald Trump is proposing bonuses for educators who undergo gun training. State lawmakers are beginning to consider legislation while school officials are pushing for an increase in classroom resources but not guns.
State laws related to guns in schools vary by state and although many only apply to college campuses, some states give teachers with concealed carry permits the ability to have guns on the grounds of K-12 schools, according to the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence."

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/24/us/armed-teachers-states-trnd/index.html

Cut the old boy some slack, Steele... he's just worried about his Todger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKThyMmi7I

Dear Is Mise,

So you want these weapons in the hands of untrained or lightly trained individuals rather than those highly trained in their use in stressful situations?

Why the fetish for arming civilians rather than having the military take these roles?

Because you are one of the older, white, conservative males who fantasise about using a weapon to protect others, especially family, from imagined threat. This usually has a racial tinge to it which certainly fits your perspective.

"Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?"

"Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears"

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

Steele,

"Why the fetish for arming civilians rather than having the military take these roles"

But I agreed with you and was glad that you had finally seen the light and that you now though that people with guns were the solution to the immediate problem.

Are you doing another turn around?

If we allowed the population of Sydney to be armed, the murder rate in Sydney would be astronomical; because anger and frustration is at crisis level. Only the criminals in Sydney have illegal guns; and who do they shoot? mostly other criminals. If the population was armed with guns we would have the same murder problems as the USA. There have been 97 murders by guns alone in USA since 1st January 2018.

Josephus,

What are you on about, or should that be, simply, on?

Issy, Jose and I do not often agree, but on this one I can see his point of view, and it is reasonable.

Unlike a certain gun nutter who shall remain nameless. The GN wants to immediately arm all teachers! No time for vetting or training, just hand out the firearms next Monday morning before Assembly.

I can just imagine the Headmaster on the school PA.

Headmaster; "Mr Smithers, please report to my office and pick up your 'Brengun'."

Headmaster; "The person who left the 'Howitzer' in the corridor please remove it, you are blocking access to the home ed room."

Headmaster; "A reminder to teachers taking PE classes, please do not leave you loaded AK47's in the locker room, year 7 children are playing with them."

Headmaster; "Those boys who painted Miss Jones's pair of 'Bazooka's" pink, it was not funny, and you will be put on detention!"

Reminder; Stand to attention! General muster is at 0.900 hours, followed by parade. Artillery practice for year 8's will commence at 10 hundred hours in the quadrangle.

Now that's how a school should be run. Right Issy.

Issy, the time here in NSW is 7.05am Eastern Daylight Saving Time. The time on my post is 6.05am Eastern Standard Time. I know you are having great difficulty working out the difference, considering the only method you have of telling the time is a sundial strapped to your wrist. remember, when the big hand is point straight up to the 12, and the little hand is point to the seven, it is 7 o'clock!

Paul,

"Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 March 2018 6:13:36 AM"

That's what OLO tells me was the time of your post above; how do I change it?

//That's what OLO tells me was the time of your post above; how do I change it?//

Well I'd say the problem is one of two things, Is Mise.

1) The little man that lives inside your computer and winds its clock has fallen asleep, and needs waking up. Quite a common problem, and easily fixed. I recommend walking in a circle around your computer, bashing saucepan lids together and shouting 'wake up, little man inside my computer'. If your computer-dwelling little man is a particularly heavy sleeper, it may be advantageous to attempt to wake him in a heavily frequented public place where you can ask helpful passers-by to assist you in your hullabaloo.

If that doesn't work then unfortunately you've probably got the second problem.

2) The clock's mechanism as gone awry, and the little man can't fix it. This one is a bit trickier, but the generally recommended repair method in these situations is percussive appliance repair, performed with a 20lb sledgehammer. The advantage of this method is that even if it doesn't work, I can guarantee that you'll no longer be concerned about the clock being wrong.

Alternatively, you can wait three days for when your computer clock magically re-synchronises with the OLO clock in an Easter miracle. Oh wait, that's right, you think the only solutions that matter are immediate solutions. Didn't patience used to be a virtue?

Guess it'll have to be the sledgehammer then.

Toni,

Leave the wit to Paul, he's better at it.

Didn't you want to discuss Gun Control, I started to talk to you about it but you've gone quiet.
On reflection; the most important aspect and the most difficult is to synchronize breathing, sight and target alignment and trigger release.

That's funny, I could have sworn you wanted to talk about the timestamps on OLO.

//"Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 March 2018 6:13:36 AM"

That's what OLO tells me was the time of your post above; how do I change it?//

Guess I was wrong.

Or have you just decided that changing the subject as rapidly as possible is some sort of cunning rhetorical device? Is this your attempt at a Gish gallop?

//On reflection; the most important aspect and the most difficult is to synchronize breathing, sight and target alignment and trigger release.//

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opT_JGssUVk

Toni,

"Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 29 March 2018 11:04:17 AM"

That's how your post's OLO time comes up on my computer, my computer time is 12:46 PM.

SR,

Please don't say you're "using your[my] logic" when its your 'logic' instead. I'd hate to have others confuse the two.

For example, just because the proportion of black fatherless kids is similar to the proportion of fatherless mass shooters does mean that they are in any way linked. Two similar numbers are often just similar but unrelated numbers. Statistics was never your strong suit, eh?

While you might want to ignore the rather startling prevalence of fatherless boys in the numbers, it really isn't that simple. For example this same relationship exists in other areas, eg the proportion of fatherless boys among convicted rapists is over 60%. Similar data for gang related murders, drug trafficking, domestic violence, violence in general.

Equally, the proportion of fatherless kids in a community is a much better predictor of the level of criminality in that community than other factors such as race or level of poverty.

But its much easier to look for more laws than look to the societal failings over the past two generations. Given that current laws are routinely ignored by both the criminals and the authorities, quite how new laws will make any sort of difference is impossible to see.

As to the discussions about arming teachers, you might ponder that pretty much all mass shootings (however that's defined) occur in so-called gun-free zones. People who are open to shooting unarmed innocents are perhaps less enamoured of taking on people who might fight back

and really, on the efficacy of having armed people handy Australia offers some good examples.

Dear mhaze,

You wrote;

“For example, just because the proportion of black fatherless kids is similar to the proportion of fatherless mass shooters does mean that they are in any way linked. Two similar numbers are often just similar but unrelated numbers. Statistics was never your strong suit, eh?”

Far stronger than yours it seems.

You are trying to make the argument that those from fatherless families are more likely to be involved in mass shootings. My retort was to point out that if this were the case then we would see proportionally more non-Hispanic Blacks involved in mass shootings because of the high rates of fatherless families. This is not the result, in fact the proportional rates are far below those of non-Hispanic whites from fatherless families.

Therefore accounting for fatherless rates whites are vastly more likely to be involved in mass shootings. But not once in your reply did you mention the word white. Why is that?

Of the supposed two predictors, being white is far more indicative than family status.

Dear Is mise,

You wrote;

“But I agreed with you and was glad that you had finally seen the light and that you now though that people with guns were the solution to the immediate problem.”

No all I was doing was seeking what it would take to have you finally see an alternative to arming school teachers. I don't agree with stationing fully armed military personnel at every school but you readily did.

By your logic all police in the UK would be armed, but they are not. Why do you think that is?

This is what your thinking brings.

A 13-year-old girl in Mississippi has died after being shot by her nine-year-old brother during a fight over video games, police say.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/boy-9-shoots-13-year-old-sister-in-fight-over-video-game-controller-20180320-p4z55x.html

"By your logic all police in the UK would be armed, but they are not. Why do you think that is?"

Because the Poms are bloody stupid, one of the worst things tat they ever did was disarming their police.

However, the stupidity doesn't extend to all of the UK because some police are routinely armed.

"This is what your thinking brings.

A 13-year-old girl in Mississippi has died after being shot by her nine-year-old brother during a fight over video games, police say."

That's not what my thinking brings at all, because I'm a staunch advocate of firearms security, all my arms are under lock and key and I'm the only one, apart from my equally licenced son, who knows where the keys are kept.

Steele, a particularly gruesome story, shocking in the extreme. In the past when I have posted similar horrific accounts of gun deaths. Issy and his then dopey forum sidekick on the issue Leoj would berate me for doing so, as they said; unlike them pair of sensitive coyotes I had no respect for the dead, and out of a sense of common decency for the deceased, they would not be commenting on the matter at all.
ex dixit.

SR,

"You are trying to make the argument that those from fatherless families are more likely to be involved in mass shootings. "

Actually, no. I was pointing out that shooters were highly likely to be fatherless at rates far in excess of their representation in the general community.

I suspect you won't get the difference....hence my comment about your understanding of the stats.

In terms of trying to understand the nature of those who resort to mass shooting (always remembering that that term is highly ill-defined) many factors need to be considered. Fatherlessness is one such factor which has been, but is no longer, under appreciated.

//"Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 29 March 2018 11:04:17 AM"

That's how your post's OLO time comes up on my computer, my computer time is 12:46 PM.//

Yeah, it's because of daylight savings. It's an annual event... is this the first time you've noticed it? On 1/4/18 daylight savings ends in NSW, and our clocks will re-synchronise with OLO's. Then on 7/10/18 they'll jump ahead by an hour again, and stay that way until 7/4/19. If it bothers you I suppose you can manually readjust your computer's time to match OLO's, but then your computer will be an hour behind all the other clocks in NSW. Or you can just resign yourself to the fact that banana-benders have backwards views on the subject of daylight savings, and put up with it.

There you go, mystery solved.

So now that we've got that little conundrum cleared up: hilarious puns aside, what's wrong with gun control? We seem to be in agreement - at least I think we're in agreement - that civilians should not be permitted to possess certain types of arms. We simply disagree on the extent to which their access to arms should be limited. You don't want people to be forbidden from having guns but you're quite happy for them to be forbidden from having white phosphorous grenades, right?

Well that sounds like a violation of 2nd Amendment rights if ever I heard one. The Founding Fathers, in their eternal wisdom, never specified which types of arms. The 2nd Amendment is quite clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; it says nothing to the effect of 'except for the following list of arms for which it's totally fine to infringe the people's right to keep and bear them, I mean c'mon, have you seen the people? You can't trust half of those mouth-breathers with overly sharp scissors, for heaven's sake'. That bit was cut from the first draft. But they still won't let you have a rocket-propelled grenade. Rotten spoilsports, Is Mise, or sensible and prudent policy makers?

If it is OK to bend the 2nd Amendment in principle to prevent civilians getting their hands on the really fun toys... why isn't it OK to bend it in an effort to save kids lives?

"Firearms-related injuries are America's third leading cause of death for children aged one to 17, according to a 2017 report in the medical journal Pediatrics. An average of 1297 children died each year from 2012 to 2014 from a firearms-related injury.

Analysing data from the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention and the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, The Washington Post found that "on average, 23 children were shot each day in the United States in 2015. Of the approximately 8400 shootings, 1458 were fatal, a death toll that exceeds the entire number of US military fatalities in Afghanistan this decade."

23 children a day. And yet I'm sure Is Mise will still try to find a way to weasel out of discussing gun control. He seems to think it's a taboo subject.

Toni,

I'm willing to discuss gun control, as I've told you, why don't you start a thread on it?

I've also said that I'm in favour of strict storage, 99% of children incidents could possibly be avoided by proper storage.

Paul,

"In the past when I have posted similar horrific accounts of gun deaths. Issy and his then dopey forum sidekick on the issue Leoj would berate me for doing so, as they said; unlike them pair of sensitive coyotes I had no respect for the dead, and out of a sense of common decency for the deceased, they would not be commenting on the matter at all. "

That is not quite correct, what we said was that people ought to, at the least, wait until the 'blood had dried'
before leaping on the bandwagon (as the Greens do) and making a comment simply to score a point.

Dear mhaze,

You wrote; “I was pointing out that shooters were highly likely to be fatherless at rates far in excess of their representation in the general community.”

And I was pointing out that shooters were highly likely to be whites at rates far in excess of their representation in the general community.

Where is the quibble?

I also argued that race appeared to be a greater factor than family status. Of course I am indulging in causal inference but not unreasonably I would have thought.

Dear Is Mise,

You wrote;

“I've also said that I'm in favour of strict storage, 99% of children incidents could possibly be avoided by proper storage.”

So what type of strict storage would allow a teacher to have immediate access to their firearm in the event of in your words; “a teacher who is suddenly threatened by an armed murderer in a schoolroom”?

Or is it to be kept in a holster on their person at all times?

This is what you want for us.

Steele,

Clutching at straws now?

There is a vast difference between strict storage to keep guns out of unauthorised hands and arming those most likely to be the immediate targets of an armed criminal in a school.

Still, if you want to see teachers and students left at the mercy of murderers then that's your problem.

Proper storage is ineffective if you are walking down the street confronted by a criminal unless you are also carting a firearm not stored, or in a public meeting place, theatre or school. To attempt to open a secured storage in these places would immediately attract the attention of the armed criminal. In the case of a house invasion the response would be likewise. Criminals do not wait until you also are armed from your storage cabinet. I incidentally made several triple locked gun cabinets with separate ammunition storage for clients out of 2mm hardened steel.

Josephus,

What you say is very true, fortunately, I neither need nor want to carry a firearm, I have my trusty walking stick.

In NSW 6mm steel is the minimum size for a pistol safe, but Category 'A' and 'B' long arms can be stored in appropriate locked and secured hardwood cupboards/chests/lockers.

Issy, that is not quite correct, when I raised similar gun deaths with you on previous occasions, you found them so confronting, they simply overwhelmed you. Rather than debate the issue further, or offer counter argument, you would simply close the argument down. The alternative is for you to go onto some nitpicking exercise, and like 'Polly the Parrot', continue to ask the same inane question, over and over! "Polly want a cracker", does that sound familiar to anyone?

The other Issy ploy is to act like the domineering school master, should you make a spelling mistake, or use the wrong word in a post (as Issy often does himself), offering fruitloop advice of; get a spellchecker etc.
An example of Issem would be something like, should I post; "Issy your are a goat!" Issy would be quick to correct me with "I am not a goat Paul, I am a DOPE, get it right Paul "I am a DOPE!" Dope Dope Dope.

Paul,

Do get a spellchecker or try Grammarly, there's a good chap.

Issy, Issy, Issy, with you being one of the phytoplankton of intelligence on the evolutionary ladder, I think I will leave it for a few billion more years before I start taking your advice.

Your choice, Paul, be mediocre.

Dear Is Mise,

How about just answering the question ya flog. The only way your wet dream can be achieved is for teachers to have weapons on their persons in a holstered position ready for immediate access. Is that correct or not?

Steele,

Of course, the teachers would have their pistols holstered on their persons, that's the whole idea, ready and immediate access when needed, just as the Special Constables at Parramatta had holstered pistols when Mr Cheng was brutally murdered.

Had the SCs not been armed it is possible that more people would have been murdered, the murderer had at least another five shots in hand.

Maybe you think that the SCs should not have been armed and that for one of them to shoot the coward dead was a bit over the top?

Dear Is Mise,

Yet in over 80% of shooting incidents in schools in the US a teacher was not initially present to stop it.

If you were really thinking about the kids instead of your fetish why shouldn't they be armed in order to protect themselves?

Steele,

"Yet in over 80% of shooting incidents in schools in the US a teacher was not initially present to stop it."

I do wish that you would give a reference for statements.

Arming the students is not an option as most of them are too young to legally own a gun.

But, once again, what is your solution for a teacher faced by an armed murderer?

Bet that you've never been on the wrong end of a gun and had but a split second to fire first

Dear Is Mise

“A 17-year-old student was charged with attempted murder and other crimes after bringing a gun to West Liberty-Salem High School and firing two shots at 17-year-old student in a bathroom with a shotgun. The victim was injured.”

“An 18-year-old King City High School student was shot outside the school's auditorium. The gunman ran across the school's campus and baseball field, and fled the area.”

“Police say the two teens ages 14 and 16 were involved in a confrontation on the far north end of Union Middle School. The boys got into an argument. The argument lead to a shooting. The 14 year old shot the 16 year old twice. He was sent to the hospital in critical but stable condition.”

“A 16-year-old male student fired at a 15-year-old female classmate that he had briefly dated in the cafeteria of Italy High School. The gunman left the school immediately after opening fire and was arrested.”

“As students were gathering in an open area prior to the start of classes, a 15-year-old student opened fire with a handgun, killing one 15-year-old at the scene, and wounding another who died at a nearby hospital. Eighteen other people were injured, fourteen by bullets and three critically.”

These were all in the last 18 months.

You can go through them here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2015_to_present

You can do the sums. How many do you see happening in the classroom with a teacher present?

And yes I have been on the wrong end of a firearm, a sawn off shotgun actually, directed under my chin. There is one thing for certain, if I had of tried for a weapon I would be missing my head.

Steele,

Thanks for the reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2015_to_present

if you take the 's' off 'https', thus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2015_to_present

it comes up as an automatic reference, this had me fooled until, I think, Toni mentioned it.

Granted a teacher was not present in those cases but in the other 20% they were and a lot of teachers have died without the chance to defend themselves.

Not a nice experience being on the wrong end, imagine how the teachers must have felt in the instants before they were murdered.

The mainstream media isn't there to inform you, it's job is to subtly manipulate you into thinking a certain way about a certain issue.
The reason you don't hear about this is because it doesn't fit the anti-gun narrative.
You also won't hear about how many of these shooters were on prescription drugs and not in their right mind.
You won't hear that 1.5 million crimes in the US are thwarted by guns, whilst police only arrive after crimes are committed.
They won't tell you that most of the crimes are gang related, in Democrat controlled cities which already have anti-gun laws or that most gun crimes happens in conjuction with the war on drugs.
If one was to read between the lines and remember Democrats were the ones who were supportive of KKK and opposed abolition of slavery one might see a larger more disturbing picture.
They use immigrants to shore up voting block and stay in power, trick blacks into supporting them while they remain oppressed and entrenched in ghettos and profiteer off them by drugs sold to them; acquired within overseas US military operations; a situation designed for profit and to create statistics for an anti-gun anti-constitutional globalist corporate agenda; with big pharma doing their part by making sure everyone medicated with SSRI's and their known side effects of making people go crazy.

In the bigger picture, the US's greatest export is 'death', how many innocent people will be killed by its arms sales to Saudi Arabia and others?

//On 1/4/18 daylight savings ends in NSW, and our clocks will re-synchronise with OLO's.//

See Is Mise, I told you so.

Now, were we on gun control?

//I've also said that I'm in favour of strict storage//

Well that's a good start I suppose, although I wonder if you've really thought this one through. When one of the drug crazed psychos that you're convinced lurks on every street corner bursts through your door with a machete, do you really think he's going to wait politely while you unlock your gun safe before he tries to hack you to death?

It's just that you're always going on about how important it is to let people have guns for their own self-protection against drug crazed psychos, mass shooters, terrorists, Greens voters et. al. - and when you're banging that drum you don't seem to give a fig for proper storage. It sounds like you're trying to eat your cake and have it too. So which are you really in favour of: having guns ready and instantly available in case of sudden home/school/theatre/wherever invasion, or keeping them properly secured where they can't fall into the wrong hands?

//If one was to read between the lines and remember Democrats were the ones who were supportive of KKK and opposed abolition of slavery one might see a larger more disturbing picture.
They use immigrants to shore up voting block and stay in power, trick blacks into supporting them while they remain oppressed and entrenched in ghettos and profiteer off them by drugs sold to them; acquired within overseas US military operations; a situation designed for profit and to create statistics for an anti-gun anti-constitutional globalist corporate agenda; with big pharma doing their part by making sure everyone medicated with SSRI's and their known side effects of making people go crazy.//

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytVXev5GVHM

Thanks for that Toni.
I knew how my comment sounded when I wrote it, so I'll accept your response as reasonable.
I don't think you're aware of many things that go on regards US though.

So I never noticed that OLO was out of time with the rest of NSW, mea culpa.

Toni,

"It's just that you're always going on about how important it is to let people have guns for their own self-protection"

When and where have I ever said that?

Toni,

"When one of the drug crazed psychos that you're convinced lurks on every street corner [where did I say that?] bursts through your door with a machete"

Well, I'll meet him and disable him with my tightly furled umbrella, for preference, but if the brolly isn't in reach then I'll use my walking stick.

Dear Is Mise,

So you want each teacher armed with an easily acceptable weapon?

Given that the vast majority of school shooters are white, male, and mentally immature teenagers who attend the school what is to stop a physically large lad snapping then disarming a teacher, particularly a small diminutive one and using the weapon to settle an imagined or otherwise grievance?

How spectacularly idiotic this is.

You want to continue to foster a gun culture in this country and this is the future you would have for us.

Shame.

Steele,

"Given that the vast majority of school shooters are white, male, and mentally immature teenagers who attend the school what is to stop a physically large lad snapping then disarming a teacher, particularly a small diminutive one and using the weapon to settle an imagined or otherwise grievance?"

Stand in the corner, you obviously didn't take on the lesson about "Smart Guns".
http://www.thetrace.org/2017/03/new-armatix-smart-gun-law-enforcement/
http://www.publichealthlawwatch.org/blog/2017/10/11/smart-gun-technology-and-the-potential-to-save-lives

How spectacularly idiotic was that?.

Smart guns have been around for decades.

Dear Is Mise,

Oh good lord, you really are a gift that keeps giving my friend. You really should read your links.

“But developers faced vehement opposition, not from anti-gun activists pursuing a once-vocal push for individual disarmament but from very loud and very angry gun rights activists. Technology development withered.  Both Colt and Smith & Wesson abandoned federal grants for such projects after suffering a “revenue-crushing boycott” from their customers because of the research. Of course, the mere fact that the federal government administered such grants led some to question whether the money for public safety technology improvement was really “a smoke screen to eventually take all handguns that are not smart guns out of the hands of law-abiding U.S. Citizens...”

And what about this?
“A Maryland gun shop owner has dropped his plan to be the first in the United States to sell a so-called “smart gun” after a backlash that included death threats.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-maryland-smartgun/maryland-gun-store-drops-plans-to-sell-smart-guns-after-threats-idUSBREA410SD20140502

So what kind of smart gun are you advocating; fingerprints, watch, grip sequence?

Arming 3.6 million teachers with $1300 weapons is around 4.5 billion dollars. Add to that the required training and it could be doubled. So 9 billion dollars and take a long time to to roll out where as my suggestion could be done in weeks. Why do you want to put these kids at risk?

You are widening your knowledge base, Steele, and that's all to the good.
Now read about the schools that have armed teachers, there's plenty on Google.

You haven't given your opinion yet on the arming of special constables in NSW, such as those at Parramatta who probably saved a few lives by killing Mr Cheng's murderer.

Can you, or anyone else, guarantee that Islamic terrorists will not attack a school?

Dear Is Mise,

Once again I say answer the bloody question you flog. You are the one who wants to put a loaded weapon in every classroom.

"So what kind of smart gun are you advocating; fingerprints, watch, grip sequence?"

Steele,

"You are the one who wants to put a loaded weapon in every classroom."

Did I say that or is it just more of your clairvoyant suppositions?

I don't advocate smart guns at all, but they are out there and overcome your objection that the gun could be taken off the teacher,
no one has ever suggested that all teachers be armed and in the schools that have armed teachers most people don't know who they are.
That's part of the deterrence.
Have you worked out yet how a teacher could stop an armed murderer?

Contemplate this,
"Dec 15, 2014 - At least 132 students and nine staff members were killed on Tuesday when Taliban gunmen broke into a school in the Pakistani city of Peshawar and opened fire".
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=132+school+students+shot+in+afghanistan&rlz=1C1CAFB_enAU718AU718&oq=132+school+students+shot+in+afghanistan&aqs=chrome..69i57.35379j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

and remember that it was mainly by their own incompetence that our local terrorists have been caught.

//That's part of the deterrence.//

The deterrence? Come off it, Is Mise. Surely you have more sense than to just parrot daft NRA propaganda like that without thinking about it first?

Mass shootings end in one three ways: the perpetrator kills himself, the perpetrator is killed by the police, or the perpetrator is arrested, tried and given a life or death sentence depending on their state.

Now to normal, rational people these seem like obvious and significant deterrents. But the type of people who shoot up schools are clearly not normal or rational... and they don't seem to be deterred in the slightest by the fact that there is a high probability that their rampage will end with them being shot by police.

If they've never been deterred by the prospect of being shot in the past, what makes you think these nutters will suddenly start being deterred by the prospect of being shot just because teachers might be packing heat?

Toni,

"If they've never been deterred by the prospect of being shot in the past, what makes you think these nutters will suddenly start being deterred by the prospect of being shot just because teachers might be packing heat?"

Because an armed teacher would be a threat not only to them but to their intended purpose, the killing of innocent people.
The police, and being caught are not a threat because the police will not be there but an armed teacher could be.

Have you thought of a way that a teacher could immediately protect self and students in an attack?

This should not be beyond your mental capacity, or don't you believe that a teacher should be given a chance at defending themselves?

SR,

"And I was pointing out that shooters were highly likely to be whites at rates far in excess of their representation in the general community.

Where is the quibble?"

The quibble is that there isn't any real data to support your claim. I know for some, the lack of data is a mere detail. But I rather think its important.

As to arming teachers, it ought to be noted that almost all mass shootings take place in so-called gun-free zones. For some reason the bad guys are drawn to such locations..can't imagine why.

When the bad guys decide to work outside gun-free zones, things don't work out too well for them....http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/draw-muhammad-shooting-who-was-behind-cartoon-contest-n353081

As to banning guns, why don't the left in the USA just get on with it. If, as they claim, they represent majority opinion, then start the process to repeal the 2nd amendment. They don't because they know they can't. Even when they controlled the house, Senate and Presidency, they wimped it. Their current outrage isn't about solving the problem but about stirring up their left wing base. But just watch how they'll dodge the issue in the mid-terms.

Gun control and gun rights are so heated and divided in the US, that no action is going to be taken nation wide. And that is the issue with either solution proposed for gun violence. Since it can't be agreed on as a culture to have more guns and be a deterrent, or have no guns and end the access of mass shootings. Without full support nation wide on either solution, the areas that are "gun free zones" are not protected from guns coming in. Therefore gun free means nothing and doesn't help anyone.

Because of this, I think something still needs to be done. Arming teachers seems like a good choice. Better then the current choice of squabble, get nothing done, pander gun or anti-gun philosophy to voters and gain their support, and watch murders and mass shooting continually increase.

Personally I am soundly against the "sit on our hand and watch the world go to hell" aproach.