The Forum > General Discussion > ADHD
ADHD
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Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 March 2018 3:23:29 PM
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cont
Kagan: That’s true, but it is primarily due to fuzzy diagnostic practices. Let’s go back 50 years. We have a 7-year-old child who is bored in school and disrupts classes. Back then, he was called lazy. Today, he is said to suffer from ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). That’s why the numbers have soared. SPIEGEL: Experts speak of 5.4 million American children who display the symptoms typical of ADHD. Are you saying that this mental disorder is just an invention? Kagan: That’s correct; it is an invention. Every child who’s not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: “It’s ADHD; here’s Ritalin.” In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don’t have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they’ll make the corresponding diagnosis. Kagan was asked if the ‘mental health crisis’ among children was a ‘bugaboo’ — here is his response: Kagan: We could get philosophical and ask ourselves: “What does mental illness mean?” If you do interviews with children and adolescents aged 12 to 19, then 40 percent can be categorized as anxious or depressed. But if you take a closer look and ask how many of them are seriously impaired by this, the number shrinks to 8 percent. Describing every child who is depressed or anxious as being mentally ill is ridiculous. Adolescents are anxious, that’s normal. They don’t know what college to go to. Their boyfriend or girlfriend just stood them up. Being sad or anxious is just as much a part of life as anger or sexual frustration. SPIEGEL: What does it mean if millions of American children are wrongly being declared mentally ill? Kagan: Well, most of all, it means more money for the pharmaceutical industry and more money for psychiatrists and people doing research. Folks are lining their pockets by diagnosing children as ‘mentally ill’ and shoving medication at them. But what does this mean for these kids that are being diagnosed? Kagan said that it is devastating. Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 March 2018 5:57:15 PM
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Cont
Kagan: For them, it is a sign that something is wrong with them — and that can be debilitating. I’m not the only psychologist to say this. But we’re up against an enormously powerful alliance: pharmaceutical companies that are making billions, and a profession that is self-interested. Kagan even gives his own ‘prescription’ for kids that have been diagnosed as ADHD. SPIEGEL: It’s not entirely harmless either, though. After all, children with this diagnosis [bipolar disorder] are being subjected to a systematic change in their brain chemistry through psychoactive substances. Kagan: I share your unhappiness. But that is the history of humanity: Those in authority believe they’re doing the right thing, and they harm those who have no power. SPIEGEL: That sounds very cynical. Are there any alternatives to giving psychoactive drugs to children with behavioral abnormalities? Kagan: Certainly. Tutoring, for example. Who’s being diagnosed with ADHD? Children who aren’t doing well in school. It never happens to children who are doing well in school. So what about tutoring instead of pills? Source: Spiegel Do you know what else they could try? Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 March 2018 5:58:55 PM
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Cont
An ‘Old School’ remedy. Let your kids be kids! Give them lots of fresh air and a place to run and play outside to burn off their energy instead of plunking them down in front of screens for hours on end. They’ll be happier, and as an added bonus, they’ll probably be able to focus better at school. Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 March 2018 6:01:58 PM
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"Attention deficit" is the healthy response when the object of attention is unwholesome.
Wise and strong children resist the verdict of becoming cogs in the industrial economy. The greatest saints and seers would today be diagnosed with ADHD as they keep their attention on God rather than on the mundane as their ignorant parents and teachers expect them to "succeed" in worldly life. Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 8:12:06 AM
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Most of these modern 'ailments' are faked by people trying to make a fast buck. Most of the 'sufferers' just need a good kick in the backside if anyone can be bothered with them. Simply ignoring them is probably the best way to go.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 9:10:28 AM
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It should be more like HTFU, as most so called sufferers just need is a good old fashion kick up the rear end, without fear of being criticised by nosey onlookers.
Its all part of our softening of society.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:03:03 PM
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I raised two boys with ADHD. One was real bad, the other not so bad but bad enough for the Headmaster at their School to have them, during recess, be on opposite sides of the School with one hand on the railing of the school fence.
So what was the cause. ADD & ADHD was just starting to become a thing. Not yet fully integrated into Society at that stage. Early 70's. However I did read a article on Red & Yellow Dye & that Hinze Tomato Sauce had loads of the stuff in it. I looked at the Label & the Label of Red Cordial & they were loaded. I talked my then wife into cutting out the two. The kids were rank. It took about three weeks & there was a noticeable difference in their behaviour. In two months these were normal kids. No Tantrums, no fighting or screaming or bad behaviour, it was a miracle. My wife said, as they were well behaved no that they could have a table spoon of Tomato sauce. We didn't finish the meal. One of the boys reached over the table & grabbed the other by the throat so hard that his wind pipe collapsed. I don't know how I did it but I shoved my finger down his throat & pushed it out again. We took him to the Hospital & the Nurse called the police. We were in the throes of being Charge with when I asked the Policeman to call the headmaster at the kids School. He did, he put down the phone, closed his book & walked out & never said a word to us. The kids went off all artificial food stuff from that day. The whole thing did cause a marriage breakdown along with a previous wife who couldn't bear to see me married again. My wife went back to live with her mother & they allowed them to have Artificial Food Stuffs. The eldest boy end up being placed in a home. Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 6:22:06 PM
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cont.
So, I would say there is a Case for ADHD in some instances caused by reactions to Artificial Foodstuffs. Some of the problem is caused by Drug affected mothers who carried the child. I believe, going on an article I read in the previous weeks Courier Mail, that this is starting to be recognised as a cause of many ailments in children. Other reasons are over accommodating Parents who never discipline their children. Then, of course there are undisciplined Parents themselves, Bogans. We are seeing more & more of them unfortunately. Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 6:23:26 PM
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A couple of Grumpy Old Men, cynical in the extreme, what else can you expect. "just need a good kick in the backside", the answer to everything, a kick up the backside. The blind ignorant living in their own personal Dark Ages full of misery. If ttbn had his way, we would return to the good old days when doctors used leeches and bleeding to "cure" illness. Butch, your absolutely correct, society is just too soft these day. You're not going to believe this, but we haven't had a decent public flogging here in Sydney in over a month! And, I can hardy remember the last public hanging, it must be more than a year now. Its all down to those soft cocks who think its a good idea to be concerned about their fellow man, shameless fools, one and all!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 7:19:12 AM
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//A couple of Grumpy Old Men, cynical in the extreme, what else can you expect. "just need a good kick in the backside", the answer to everything, a kick up the backside. The blind ignorant living in their own personal Dark Ages full of misery.//
Paul, shoosh. Disparaging the boot is a bootable offence. It's one of our proudest traditions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt4mwy9OBNA Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 7:47:19 AM
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Play the victim, pay the victim.
Statistics say: The earlier the diagnosis, the greater the chances of an extended life of ease and lack of responsibility on welfare payments, as an adult. Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 11:17:11 AM
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I was a paediatric nurse for 30 years, and part of that time I worked in a clinic that saw a large number of kids with behavioural disorders, from autism to adhd to ocd.
It’s true that the majority of kids wouldn’t need Ritalin if they came from normal, well structured homes. Most of our adhd kids came from single mother, dysfunctional homes and their response to that dysfunction was to act out, both at school and home. It didn’t help that their mothers fed them on coke and junk food. As has been said already, artificial colours, flavours and preservatives affect some kids badly. In defence of the doctors who order Ritalin, as one explained to me, it was the only way to keep the child in school and the only way to prevent the mother hitting the child. The Paediatrician couldn’t change the home environment, all he could change was the child, via medication. . At a guess I would say that the increase in behavioural problems is on a par with the increase in single parent families. Posted by Big Nana, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 2:09:35 PM
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//It’s true that the majority of kids wouldn’t need Ritalin if they came from normal, well structured homes. Most of our adhd kids came from single mother, dysfunctional homes and their response to that dysfunction was to act out, both at school and home.//
Methylphenidate is not some magic drugs that will turn little sh!ts into cherubs. It's a stimulant; my mum is prescribed methylphenidate for narcolepsy precisely because it is a stimulant. If you give stimulants to little sh!ts who don't actually have ADHD and are just regular or garden variety little sh!ts, they get worse. It is a pharmaceutical compound prescribed for specific medical conditions, not a substitute for discipline or good parenting. Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 15 March 2018 3:51:27 AM
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Toni, have you tried giving your Mum a kick up the backside? Telling her to stop faking it, because the nice Mr Turnballs will not be coming around with a sack of cash like she expects. If you are unable to administer the treatment yourself then Dr ttbn, and Dr Butch can pop round and do the medical stuff for you, aka kicking backside. Twice a day, morning and night, everyday for a month usually cures most cases. In the most severe instances a good old fashioned flogging with a leather belt is what's needed. Remember what the two good doctors believe, you have to be cruel to be kind, and stop the fakers!
Seriously, I had a young cousin, who was prone to fits of some kind. As a child, Gary would from time to time become totally uncontrollable, throwing himself down, crying, screaming. So much of it went un-diagnosed, simply put down to temper tantrums. The poor bloke lived a tormented life, eventually killing himself when he was about 25. His two brothers were normal. I am glad that in these more enlightened times, better diagnosis, and better treatment, is available for the mentally ill. Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 15 March 2018 6:00:54 AM
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//Toni, have you tried giving your Mum a kick up the backside?//
Sorry, a correction: it's not narcolepsy mum suffers from, it's 'idiopathic hypersomnia', which is a related a sleep disorder. And yes, I'm sure that kicking somebody with IH would be an effective way to wake them up if they nodded off. It does seem unnecessary though. What's wrong with just shaking them? Posted by Toni Lavis, Thursday, 15 March 2018 6:51:31 AM
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Toni, by your leave! "just shaking them". Now, that's what's wrong with this country, this kind of namby-pamby attitude towards the weak, frail and infirmed. Nothing but nothing, substitutes for a good old fashioned kicking, except perhaps a good old fashioned flogging.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 15 March 2018 7:15:10 AM
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Toni, I am well aware that stimulants are used for kids with behavioural problems but obviously you don’t understand either the dosage or the mechanism by which these drugs work in children.
Do you honestly think doctors would keep describing these drugs if they didn’t work? We would get calls from teachers complaining that they could swiftly tell the difference when a child didn’t get their medication and demand the doctor keep instructing the mother of the importance of giving the medication before school. Stimulants given in very small doses dont stimulate children, they simply allow them to block out excess stimulus which in turns helps with their concentration. As I previously said, the majority of adhd kids would benefit more from a stable home environment but I didn’t say stimulants don’t work for kids with behavioural problems. And never forget, some kids actually do need them, especially kids with high functioning autism and kids with true adhd. Posted by Big Nana, Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:27:59 AM
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Big Nanna: Do you honestly think doctors would keep describing these drugs if they didn’t work?
Depends on how much the Drug Distributor is handing out. Big Nanna: they could swiftly tell the difference when a child didn’t get their medication. Can they also tell how much "V" or other Hypo Drinks they've had before School? Posted by Jayb, Friday, 16 March 2018 4:51:02 PM
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Jayb, you obviously don’t understand how the public hospital system works. Paediatricians don’t have drawers full of drugs to hand out. It’s rare any drug rep gets to even see a public hospital doctor. Our clinics contained no drugs whatsoever, all medications were by prescription only at whichever chemist the patient preferred.
As for the teachers, well, it’s a strange coincidence that they immediately could recognise which days the drug hadn’t been given before school isn’t it? As I have already stated, most of these kids could manage without drugs if they had stable, structured homes to live in, but they don’t, so drugs are the only solution. If we could find a way to stop single women having multiple children they can’t afford or care for properly, then this problem would be greatly reduced, as the majority of these kids come from poor, single mother homes with no positive male role model. Posted by Big Nana, Friday, 16 March 2018 5:39:43 PM
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Big Nanna: Paediatricians don’t have drawers full of drugs to hand out.
But Private Doctors do, & they do & They get a quite little Kick Back along with the Chemist. Big Nanna: it’s a strange coincidence that they immediately could recognise which days the drug hadn’t been given before school isn’t it? All the Ritalin in the World won't help them if they've downed 6 cans of "V" just before School. Big Nanna: As I have already stated, most of these kids could manage without drugs if they had stable, structured homes to live in, Agreed. Big Nanna: but they don’t, so drugs are the only solution. Or take them off all Artificial Flavouring & ban Energy Drinks from the known ones. Although they've tried that & it failed. There was a restriction of "One per Man," But that didn't work because they'd turn up with a gang & get everyone to buy them one can. That way they could get high before School. So how is the Teacher going to tell if the child hasn't had their Medicine or is loaded with Energy Drinks? Quandary? You betcha. Big Nanna: If we could find a way to stop single women having multiple children they can’t afford or care for properly, I can say I couldn't count on both my hands the amount of Girls who have got pregnant so they don't have to work & get paid. A couple around here just recently. "I don't want a job." Posted by Jayb, Friday, 16 March 2018 7:27:12 PM
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//As I have already stated, most of these kids could manage without drugs if they had stable, structured homes to live in, but they don’t, so drugs are the only solution.
If we could find a way to stop single women having multiple children they can’t afford or care for properly, then this problem would be greatly reduced, as the majority of these kids come from poor, single mother homes with no positive male role model.// No, that is bollocks. If a person as ADHD, they will benefit from methylphenidate regardless of what their home life is like. But if they don't have any medical conditions for which methylphenidate is indicated, there's no reason to prescribe it. If they have behavioural issues because their folks are deadbeat housos but no ADHD, methylphenidate won't help. But it might cause harm because no drug is without side effects. Which is why in cases where the behavioural issues are due to lousy home life rather than ADHD, methylpehnidate is contraindicated. Giving children drugs for conditions they don't have is pointless, expensive, unethical and potentially dangerous. Any physician doing so is committing malpractice. http://www.adhdaustralia.org.au/about-adhd/what-is-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/ Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 17 March 2018 8:09:59 AM
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Isn't it amazing how ADHD has only come to our attention since schools were forced to stop punishment of troublesome kids.
I have no idea which natural chemical cure was released from a kids brain, or elsewhere, when standing in front of the headmasters office, waiting for that punishment, six of the best by his cane, but whatever it was it worked. There were of course in my day, dumb kids who didn't want to be at school, & who were unlikely to be profiting from school, just like today. However the thought of that six of the best had at least as much calming effect as any modern drug. Give schools back the power of punishment for bad behaviour, & you can scrap most of these drugs. The world will be a better place too, as young adults will have learnt to control their impulses, while standing in front of the heads office. Perhaps this was the best leason schools ever gave. Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 17 March 2018 10:01:55 AM
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@has been
Almost 100 years ago, Will Rogers famously said "schools ain't what they ued to be and they never were". There has been a change in the way students view teachers and authority in general. However, there never was a golden age of well-behaved children There always has been some kids who struggle to sit and work in a classroom. As Big Nana says, without the drugs, these kids are unable to function in the classroom. Giving kids drugs might make us uncomfortable, but it allows them to get an education. Posted by benk, Monday, 19 March 2018 7:48:29 PM
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https://clashamerica.com/harvard-prof-adhd-largely-fraud-heres-411/
Some of us have been saying this for a long time. But this guy is recognized as a world-leading expert in the field. Check it out.
As women continue to scream about ‘toxic masculinity’, the debunked ‘gender pay gap’, and demanding even more equality without explaining which rights they don’t have that men do have — men are being sidelined.
They are sidelined in the workplace with quotas, they are sidelined when someone wears a ‘The Future is Female’ shirt, they are sidelined in lower university acceptance rates, and they are sidelined in the classrooms early where teaching styles tilt heavily towards girl-friendly learning — sitting still, collaborative learning, and consensus rather than activity, individual achievement, and competition.
There is a war against masculinity, and boys are in the crosshairs.
As a mother of boys this concerns me greatly.
Jerome Kagan is one of the world’s leading experts in child psychology. He has been a researcher into developmental psychology at Harvard University for his entire professional career. He is the Daniel and Amy Starch Research Professor of Psychology, Emeritus at Harvard University, and co-faculty at the New England Complex Systems Institute, as well as a key pioneer in developmental psychology.
When you say ‘well-respected’ with regard to Kagan, you ain’t kidding.
He’s ranked higher than some of the superstars in the field.
A ranking of the 100 most eminent psychologists of the 20th century published by a group of US academics in 2002 put Kagan in 22nd place, even above Carl Jung (23rd), the founder of analytical psychology, and Ivan Pavlov (24th), who discovered the reflex bearing his name.
Kagan was interviewed by Spiegle and right off the bat spoke about ADHD:
SPIEGEL: … you could also say skyrocketed. In the 1960s, mental disorders were virtually unknown among children. Today, official sources claim that one child in eight in the United States is mentally ill.