David

You said:
"BASSAM..as in.. Zawadi? of "Answering Christianity" 'fame' ? :) Hope so. I agree about the need to understand "Islams Doctrines", but not just the sugar coated ones, and also Mohammad must be subjected to honest scrutiny."

I am not to sure why you ask this. The "May Allah Bless His Divinely Immaculate Soul" was sarcasm :-)
I was given the nickname Bassam by a dear Lebonese friend.
I agree, Islam/Muhammed's teachings need to be subject to honest scrutiny.

Pericles

I appreciate your optimism but your comparison would only be valid if Jesus Christ incited hatred and violence towards others, and then made it a pillar of his religion like the doctrine of Jihad in Islam.

On 14 July, Pericles wrote, in puffed-up self-importance, “Ah, but I was there, JSP, actually there at the time of the attempted bombings. Both of them.” Yet on 15 July he wrote “I was not in London on the night of the car bomb incident, but I was there the following day”. So much for credibility. I wonder what other changes and backflips will occur in his posts.

Also, trying to compare the muslim menace with the “IRA "reign of terror” is wrong. The IRA did not want to take over or destroy the West. Their goal was a united Ireland.

No-one who has heard the evil spoutings of the imams in England could dismiss the "global Islamist threat" as being mostly in our heads.

The dismissive “It is not an attempt to take over the world, it is just a number of disaffected youths goaded by a smaller number of more intelligent rabble-rousers” is troubling. Anyone who writes that is either delusional or a fifth-columnist for the Islamic cause. I wonder which it is.

If you'd like some help reading the words, JSP, just let me know and I'll run my finger under the sentences for you.

Let's start with your little dummy-spit. Remember, follow the finger...

>>On 14 July, Pericles wrote, in puffed-up self-importance, “Ah, but I was there, JSP, actually there at the time of the attempted bombings. Both of them.” Yet on 15 July he wrote “I was not in London on the night of the car bomb incident, but I was there the following day”. So much for credibility.<<

Now, here is a complete, sequential segment from my original post.

The finger! Follow the finger.

[quote]>>Pericles, get your head out of the sand... During your time in Europe, you should have crossed over to England to witness Imams preaching hatred and sedition against the government that allows them to live there. I wonder how you would excuse that<<

Ah, but I was there, JSP, actually there at the time of the attempted bombings. Both of them.<<[end quote]

Were you able to connect the dots? E-n-g-l-a-n-d, JSP. I was in E-n-g-l-a-n-d at the time of the attempted bombings.

Now, pay attention, this is the important bit.

London is in England, I was in England. I travelled from a town forty miles north of London, into London, on the day after the bombings.

>>Anyone who writes that is either delusional or a fifth-columnist for the Islamic cause. I wonder which it is.<<

OK, let's assume for the moment one or the other. What are your credentials on the topic, apart from an irrational, all-consuming fear of things you don't like?

Quite why you choose to be so gratuitously rude is beyond me, but in the same spirit, here's the finger that helped you read this lot.

Spin on it.

Pericles, you're so funny. I should run my finger over your latest.. You wrote, "Ah, but I was there, JSP, actually there at the time of the attempted bombings." Only now do you add England as opposed to London. I suppose if you were in California during 9/11, you would be writing that you were "there, actually there" too. Maybe you should review your posts before climbing on your high horse. It looks like you had the dummy spit.

BTW, as you were in E-n-g-l-a-n-d, didn't you come across the imams I mentioned or have you conveniently forgotten? You certainly failed to address that part of my post.

Also, what are your grounds for your accusation of me having an "irrational, all-consuming fear of things you don't like"? Going by your posts, if I met you I probably wouldn't like you, but I would never fear you. For someone so opinionated, you don't like others' opinions do you?

As for being "gratuitously rude", look in the mirror to see the main culprit.

Spin on that

Boaz,

"FH.. Can you give an answer to the issue of 'why' the Muslims who needed Negus help deliberatly chose 'Christian-friendly' quotes but they knew full well that "Anyone who associates partners with Allah is to be condemned" (words to that effect)"

Not sure why is this a ‘debate point’ it makes perfect sense. The verse means that only believers with pure hearts are allowed into the pilgrim (ie Mecca). Non believers with impure hearts do not need to go there. If you tell me “FH, you are a non-believer in my faith and your heart is impure therefore don’t pilgrim into the church of nativity” why would that offend me? If you are not a Muslim why would you want to go in the middle of the desert into the pilgrim area of Mecca anyway?
Am I missing something Boazy?

As for the second part, The Quran clearly states that we are not to judge others and that, for those who deliberately associate partners with God they are alienating him. We just convey the message and everyone chose what makes sense to him/ her.

Peace my friend,

PS: I am in Melbourne next week, I can buy you a coffee if you promise to come unarmed: -)

Come on, JSP, you can do better than that, surely? You're not even trying.

A decent insult should contain at least a scrap of credibility, otherwise it is a complete waste of space. Why not admit that you goofed - my post, in direct response to yours, quite clearly indicated that "England" was where I said I was. I suppose if I had been in London, you would have said "aha, but you weren't in Haymarket or Cockspur Street, so liar liar pants on fire yah boo sucks."

Or something equally incisive.

There were a few items in the newspapers about noisy imams, to be sure. But most English people ignore them, and certainly spend little time actually worrying about them. Just as they did with Gerry Adams in the eighties. You heard the words, but knew they were simply formulaic gibberish designed to please the jackals of the fourth estate.

The conclusion that you must be scared comes from the fact that you have an utterly irrational fear of Muslims. They all have this thing about taking over the world, apparently, after which they subject you to all sorts of indignities. Some quite excruciatingly painful.

So it a perfectly natural reaction to be frightened of them.

If you weren't, you wouldn't spend so much time obsessing over them, would you? And that goes for several other of your fellow-fanatics, who cannot bring themselves to say the word "Islam" without crouching behind the sofa, like when they first saw the Daleks on Dr. Who.

Don't feel ashamed of your fear. Face it, and conquer it. You'll feel better - and braver - once you have done so.

And more able to conduct a civilized discussion.