Good article in the Courier mail last week from an ex Islamic Jihadist. He wrote regarding the reasons for terroist acts.

'And though many British extremists are angered by the deaths of fellow Muslim across the world, what drove me and many others to plot acts of extreme terror within Britain and abroad was a sense that we were fighting for the creation of a revolutionary worldwide Islamic state that would dispense Islamic justice.' This guys name is HASSAN BUTT
and he was a friend of those respinsible for the London bombings. Those that want to pretend Islam is a peaceful religion will go on dreaming and blame Bush, Blair and Howard for every evil in the world.

Peace to the 'Mosque-teers',

Too bored to talk about the same crap again Boaz.

Since the topic of Muslim Christian relations, watch Deedat on the importance of Jesus (pbuh) to Muslims:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqFluSiXSkM&mode=related&search=

Boaz,

Muslims recognise Jesus as miracle prophet and honours Christians as the 'people of the book'.
What do you teach followers of your faith about Islam and Muslims?

Except for the marketing propaganda, we are a lot more tolerant : -)

Peace,

4 JSP1488,

I am not avocating we return to polytheism, rather I was saying that polythiesm is civil in that it allows syncretion of the divinities, as with the Upper & Lower Eyptian Kingdoms and Greek & Roman dieties. Polytheism has less potential for conflict than monotheism. I wasn't addressing blood sacrifices, but would tend think that sacafice would be kernel rites, of tribal clans [Hebrew} and tribal empires [Anztecs].

The Eygptians would take servants to serve them in the after-life, but this characteristic is independent of theocrasaic synthesis, i.e., whether the deity is Ra or Amon-Ra, the sacrafice would occur. Another non-tribal example of sacrafice, would the ancient Chinese, people were sacrificed and placed at strategic points of significant buildings: the bodies laid in doorways and under pillars.

Nicaea seems to have borrowed from the Serapis godhead and Roman Mystery cults. Comprises were made, to grow the new Christian religion... away from the Jesus cults/assemblies towards a broader audience.

The Hebrew/Jewish-Jesus cult-Christian-Islam thread have common origins to Abraham. However, melding Christianity and Islam would require huge doctrinal compromise. Something like the Pope saying Jesus was a mere prophet or that Jesus is of the same substance as Allah. Doubtful. Monotheistic conflict is more likely.

Religion has provided some organisational benefits and provided some good templates for science [design]. Hoping in 200-300 years, it will achieved its used by date.

Well...I see this has become a lively thread over the weekend.

Some useful pieces of information have also been presented.
Pericles.. your personal insights are always welcome, but I do find myself a little confused by your first hand accounts of 'near and present danger' yet your on going denial of the reality we face.

JSP said "Only religion can make good men to evil".. which is quite a provocative challenge, and worthy of being explored a bit further.
I hope others will pick on the philosophical presuppositions in that quote and scrutinize them. Key words "good" "evil" "Make"...
Actually, I think the problem is deeper than 'religion' it is our basic survival instinct which comes into play, and it also depends on what the religion actually teaches. I cannot for the life of me find any verse in the New Testament (or old) which 'commands us' to fight against 'people of their book' (Muslims) until they are subdued and humiliated, but that is exactly what the Quran says about us. (9:29)

FH. please be reminded that this thread was simply an examination of a chunk of history, and the same lessons could be applicable to any movement, even political Christianity. Nothing personal as always.

BASSAM..as in.. Zawadi? of "Answering Christianity" 'fame' ? :) Hope so. I agree about the need to understand "Islams Doctrines", but not just the sugar coated ones, and also Mohammad must be subjected to honest scrutiny.

Aside from it all, love is the answer, -Pericles, stop choking!
But lets be informed about the challenges to our freedom to love without compulsion.

FH.. can you give an answer to the issue of 'why' the Muslims who needed Negus help deliberatly chose 'Christian-friendly' quotes but they knew full well that "Anyone who associates partners with Allah is to be condemned" (words to that effect) ...I would explain it in simple 'desperation' terms. Say what you have to at the time to survive, but in terms of honesty.. this was outright deception.

It was to illuminate the concept of denial, Boaz, that I provided the first-hand report.

It is you who are in denial, in that the reaction of people suffering real damage - as opposed to experiencing a day's nuisance from a small band of beach hooligans - still differs from your own knee-jerk "whack-a-mozzie" response.

I was not in London on the night of the car bomb incident, but I was there the following day, and met a number of old friends - eighteen in all - who were happy to share their views with me.

In the same spirit, I would like to point out that back in the seventies and eighties I was working in London, through the hottest part of the IRA bombing campaign. In fact I missed one of their Christmas forays by almost exactly 24 hours. It is almost appropriate to add that I frequently drove to and from work through Brixton, in more riotous times.

All of which encourages me to believe that this is simply another phase we are going through. Annoying to many, deadly to a few, but destined to run its course over time.

It is not an attempt to take over the world, it is just a number of disaffected youths goaded by a smaller number of more intelligent rabble-rousers. Your attempts to open a second front against this illusory enemy can only serve to recruit a few more to their ranks, under the impression that they should react to your goadings.

It may seem strange to you, and difficult to understand from this safe distance, but the predominant reaction in London was in fact to make fun of the hapless failures. The jokes came and went too quickly for me to remember any specific ones I'm afraid - just think of your favourite stupidity story and substitute Muslim for Irishman/Polack/Newfie etc. and you'll get the idea.

One vaguely related goes as follows:

"Police towed away a suspect vehicle from the kerbside in front of Liverpool Airport yesterday.

It was taxed, insured, and still had its radio installed"

And while I am here, can I just point out the following:

>>I cannot for the life of me find any verse in the New Testament (or old) which 'commands us' to fight against 'people of their book' (Muslims) until they are subdued and humiliated<<

While this may be absolutely and perfectly true (I'm not even going to look), it doesn't explain the Crusades, does it?

According to most of the accounts I have read, the Christian protagonists believed themselves to be "in the right" in this particular set of disputes, and the cited authority was, apparently, Jesus and the Gospels.

He obviously didn't get his message across too well, did he?

In the same vein, I hope you won't take offence if I suggest that the words ascribed to him in the New Testament, while very pretty, are hardly what you would categorize as verbatim accounts, are they?

It is like someone recalling events that happened fifty years ago, claiming to remember exactly the words that were spoken. You'd have your lawyer shoot that one down in flames in an instant, wouldn't you?

So it is just words placed there by some folk with an agenda. Hardly surprising they later got taken selectively and metaphorically, rather than as a whole and literally, don't you think?

Incidentally, given your fundamental disagreement with the interpretation of so many hundreds of millions of Christians who subscribe to one particular church or another, I'm a little surprised that you continue to associate with them.

Even if only in name, as opposed to a common belief system.

So tell, how should we describe you, if the term "Christian" has been usurped by a bunch of organized religions?

That question is also open to others. Might be an interesting exercise.