Hasbeen, perhaps, perhaps.

Dear ALTRAV,

There are some here are that toxic I do not even read their posts. They may well have been as bad as you though experience says they were possibly worse. I really wouldn't know or care.

I've chosen to ignore them just as you are about to do to me and that is all to the good. That is the beauty of online interactions.

I will admit to reading runner's posts though. They are so lightweight and bitchy that they are a guilty pleasure.

Yeh. Anyway, BTT: a referendum on a separate chamber of parliament, a voice without any veto powers.

Currently, in almost all State (and of course Federal) parliaments, there are Indigenous members, sometimes ministers. In WA, the treasurer is Indigenous, as is his uncle (also a minister) in the Federal parliament. Last I heard, they all had voices. Of course, one obligation of an MP is that you have to keep up with any proposed legislation. Presumably they all can do that. So ....... ?

Of course, proposed legislation may be extremely abstruse, requiring specialist knowledge. So obviously, any separate overseeing body would need experts, especially lawyers, perhaps many hundreds. While I'm sure that most lawyers are already busy, and would be most reluctant to give up their current duties in order to help out such an overseeing body with their specialist expertise, there may be some who can dedicate themselves to perusing any such proposed legislation.

So clearly, any such separate body would, regardless of its lack of veto power, require adequate staffing, bureaucrats, lawyers, experts, support staff, etc, as well as adequate consultation with 'communities' and the five thousand Indigenous organisations, all out there but without a voice. Thank goodness such a body won't have any veto power, since that would increase their already onerous duties.

Joe

Loudmouth: any such separate body would, regardless of its lack of veto power, require adequate staffing, bureaucrats, lawyers, experts, support staff, etc, as well as adequate consultation with 'communities' and the five thousand Indigenous organisations, all out there

There goes all the money. & The People it's all supposed to help. nyet! Naadda! The more things change the more they stay the same.

Hi Jayb,

" ..... all out there but without a voice."

Sorry, I was being unpardonably facetious. I wonder if there is a single legislative proposal which may NOT have any implications for some aspect of Indigenous rights, society, culture or powers.

It was pointed out recently that no federal government has had control of both houses of parliament for more than twenty years. Currently, the federal government has a hell of a job getting anything through the Senate at all, with a gaggle of cross-benchers horse-trading and obstructing. And that's only two chambers. Hell, they may have trouble in the next few weeks, or at the next election, whichever comes first, with only one.

So, while Shorten and Labor may play to the peanut gallery, if they are elected and pulled on a successful referendum for a third chamber (one, of course, without a veto), they would have to deal with two houses over which they would have no control (one with a veto over any business, the other - of course - without a veto of any sort).

Yes, Labour and Shorten may be utterly opportunist, but they may need to be careful what they bring into being. A third chamber will undoubtedly be an unruly child.

Joe

Still, no one has an answer to my proposition that the schemes are
fundamentally flawed because they make no definition as to who is an
aborigine and how to handle the declining percentage who are aborigines.
If they have to be full bloods then the organisation may have a very
long lifetime but the numbers will decline to very small numbers.
The numbers could be as low as less than 100. Such numbers would tend
to inbreeding and disaster.

However you look at "What is an Aborigine" it will have to be defined
or it will not be possible to count the votes.
If you cannot answer this question the discussion is pointless.

So I ask Who is an Aborigine ?