Hi thereDAVID F...

You've again bowled me out, 'first ball' with your rational and scholastic argument. But if I stand by my default position of; 'live and let live', generally speaking I don't incur too much trouble. They say you should never enter an argument over religion and politics. Stupidly I do stick my head up on some political discussions, and generally have it well and truly shot off. I guess I don't know too much about either topic, to even win a round or two? Ah well, them's the breaks I guess.

I'm really pleased to see you still take an active interest in our Forum DAVID F.! Without your input, I'm sure the quality of what's written would invariably decline, so thank you very much indeed, for adding to the literary content of the Forum.

To Cossomby.

[If you or I saw someone suffering we would run to their aid. We see helping those who suffer as one of the highest goods we can do.]

I agree. But it's also true that we send people to those suffering, even to set up shop to try and help them whike living in the same conditions as them. It's not just churches that do this kind of missionary work. Sending someone to danger or hardship in order to save another is exactly what I meant that God has done to those who are in this broken world. It's not just a message to convert people. It's a calling to care for people.

To Toni Lavis. If your analogy was accurate, then that would be great. But unfortunately it's not. Everyone needs saving. Including you. Including me. I can't save you. I can try, but much of what we need saving from we don't know about it until it's too late. I couldn't save my friend from a failing marriage, though I tried to be there for him through it. I couldn't save a cousin from suicide. Didn't even know there was an issue till I heard he had taken his life.as much as it breaks my heart, I can't even save my wife from growing anxiety that I'm finally getting a fuller picture of how bad it is. I have seen in my life where God has rescued me. And that's what I know can be there for you too. For both this life and the next we all need saving.

I haven't heard of a Vinnies, but we have Goodwill. Looks similar to the Google search of Vinnies. We also have a few programs for homelessness.

From David f and AJ Philips we have not heard the basis of their life just the negative attacks in an endeavour to push their beliefs onto others. Quote from D f: "He does not believe in “Let's live and let live”. He wants to push his belief system on others. There is too much of this in our world." It is a pity they cannot see themselves. Their belief system is negative "We don't believe", and not a foundation for a healthy society. A positive world view and a healthy view of the true character [God] and living a life in blessing others, rather than cursing, creates a good society.

To David f.

Looking at Christianity is one thing. Looking for God is another. Perhaps you've never been in a place where you thought you needed Him. On the one hand if that's the case, I'm glad you've had such a good life. On the other hand, if that's the case I'm sorry you missed finding God because you never needed to look for Him. It's a great loss.

To o sung wu. You seem smart to me. Better then that though , you also sound kind and experienced that you can challenge or refute some things people say.Reading these comments, I'm now wondering if people search but for whatever reason don't find God. In that case, I wonder why those that do find Him, do find Him. In most things in life I see myself as the bottom of the barrel. "If I can do it so can you" kind of attitude. I still think that, but I'll have to consider a few on here. If I can't help, then live and let live is a second best choice I guess.

To AJ Philips.

[Despite the fact that I have said nothing to suggest anything of the sort, I can understand how you would get that impression. This is the type of arrogant and offensive assumption Christians make of former Christians: that they couldn’t REALLY have found Jesus, otherwise disbelief would supposedly be impossible. I’d know, I used to make the same silly assumption.]

If you had mentioned a tragic loss, I might have considered it. But instead you only seemed to be stuck on thinking about it too much. If you had found God you wouldn't be trying to explain Him away. It was philosophical thinking that seemed to turn you away. That in my opinion is not enough. I can see theology and philosophy butting heads and coming out the way you did. I can't see philosophical arguments and logic issues actually convincing me that God did not comfort me when I was needing it. Any other experience could possibly be argued to a stalemate where no one can prove or disprove. (Still unlikely with most of them). But that experience is more then enough to tip any scale to the point that God can be verified, because there's no other explanation.

Don't double standardize me with your view of Christian arrogance though, you seem pretty prone to try and speak for my views or say you know them, because you were there before. If you must know, after talking to you I hoped I could help others in the Christian communities I am in, to avoid the problems you had. Still need to find a way to apply it in my church, but on an online community I asked for anyone's testimonies of God answering their prayers. Hopefully to be an encouragement to anyone who's facing doubts. http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/on-the-subject-of-prayer.70639/

Dear Josephus,

I have mentioned three ancient philosophies Epicureanism, Stoicism and Cynicism. I believe any of the three is superior to the Christian superstition. Apparently you sound off without reading my posts.

Dear Not_Now.Soon,

I used to believe in God. After reflection I concluded I believed in an entity that existed only in the human mind and not elsewhere. I wrote an article to that effect.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10065 points to my article “God is a human invention”. God or the idea of God is not even necessary in religion. Buddhism is such a religion. There is no notion of God or soul in Buddhism.