Sam Dastyari has only been told to resign from Labor’s front bench after a tape recording surfaced which revealed his uncomfortably close links to China.

Rightly, Senators have fallen on their swords over dual nationality, but Shorten protects this greasy S.O.B. Both Shorten and this grub should be stepping down. The same as any other politician or public official should be expected to do.

Brick bats too to Malcolm Turnbull for his milk-sop criticism. Travel rorts all over again with pollies appearing to protect their little earners now and in the future when they are also receiving that glorious golden handshake from the taxpayer.

So much for the 'Code of Conduct' for politicians.

The media today is full of suggestions that Dastyari should be removed from our Parliament altogether. The man is a total tool and, perhaps, much worse.

Malcolm Turnbull thinks he should 'get out of the Senate'.

That is agreed.

However, one would have imagined though that in view of the Westminster inheritance there would be outrage from all members that Dastyari has not fallen on his sword and resigned from the Senate and from his Labor membership too.

Shorten is a hypocrite.

Yeah and Barnaby had to join for being partly kiwi while Sam acts as a traitor to Australia and still sits in Parliament.

He has brought the Parliament into disrepute.

Bill Shorten is a cowboy imagining that having Dastyari step down from a couple of trite roles and then restoring him later as he has done before is any solution to this crisis?

What confidence would business have that highly confidential information compulsorily acquired by government is secure? What confidence do any of us have that our personal information held by government is secure?

It is all care and no responsibility. Shorten needs the boot too. Noticeably, he is putting on his wide-eyed, innocent 'who, what?' look again. What rogues.

"Dastardly remains in the Parliament, why?"

- Because nobody dares to poke the dragon's eye.

Labor is a complete joke.

At the first sign of impropriety Liberal ministers resign from parliament, Sam Dastardly, on his second strike goes to the back bench with his fat salary slightly trimmed.

Perhaps the ABC can work its magic and buff Dastardly up again,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-to-quiz-abc-over-australian-story-on-sam-dastyari/news-story/6b5343f96c8a10c4c33d5d140c71d78e

From the link,
'Tasmanian Liberal Senator Eric Abetz said the ABC, as the national broadcaster, had to be seen by the community as “not being biased in anybody’s favour.”

“To do an Australian Story on a deputy whip in the Senate is passing strange because usually the Australian Story is reserved for more prominent individuals — if they are dealing with parliamentarians. And Senator Dastyari’s career thus far has not been exactly exemplary.

“One wonders why, out of all the parliamentarians they could have chosen, they sought to assist a parliamentarian who is launching a book when his only career highlight thus far has been his disgraceful acceptance of donors’ money to pay personal accounts.”

Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson said it looked to many like the ABC had provided Senator Dastyari with “new tyres and an oil change” in a media pit stop on his bumpy road to political redemption.

“The ABC should have protocols in place before giving a sitting politician this sort of soft exposure, especially given it was timed at a moment when Sam was in over-drive promoting his book, and ultimately political career. He has been nick named ‘showman Sam’ for a reason,” he said.'

"Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson said it looked to many like the ABC had provided Senator Dastyari with “new tyres and an oil change” in a media pit stop on his bumpy road to political redemption."

Yes it seems true. The senator for China's problems caused the ABC to interrupt their nightly jihad against Don Burke to spend 24 hours explaining why the Senator wasn't traitorous but was really just a naughty boy.But I'm sure the ABC will get back to criticising Burke for saying bad things to someone 30 years ago.

When David Combe was found to be playing footsie with the Russians back in the early 1980s, Hawke forced him out of all positions of power and the parliament and all aspects of politics. Even people like Mick Young, who was merely peripherally involved in the scandal suffered lasting damage despite being a Hawke confidante.

Compare the actions then to those now and observe how far we have fallen in standards and moral rectitude. Observe and lament.

Dastyari could very well be in breach of section 44 of the Constitution. See "Under any acknowledgement of obedience or adherence to a foreign power". Communist China.

like with all the women abusers the left often protects their own. Imagine it was Abbott. There would be no room in newspapers or the abc for anything else.

David Flint writes in this week's Spectator that communist China is in the process of bringing a range of countries into its sphere of influence.

Dastyari is probably small potatoes compared with a "powerful lobby among our political and other elites supporting an increasing role for Beijing in Australian affairs". This lobby "wants us to go one step further (than the Turnbull government's making us economically dependent on China) send off our allies, the Americans, and go some way towards accepting the suzerainty of Beijing".

"Shanghai Sam Dastyari knows enough about back yards to host a show
........
So for all the silliness surrounding the section 44 controversy, and the claims it is no longer relevant in a multicultural society, the constitutional demand for undivided loyalty is perhaps more imperative than ever. It is just that giving up citizenship is a base requirement rather than a foolproof preventive measure.

Shanghai Sam has taught us that much. By passing on his personal debts, spouting Beijing’s foreign policy lines and warning the Chinese we might be spying on them, he has shown utter ambivalence about his independence, our national interest or which side he is supposed to be on.

Yet Bill Shorten says Dastyari can stay in the Labor Party and in parliament.

This means he would be an active player in a Shorten Labor government. He would play a role in caucus decisions about domestic and foreign policy. Perhaps one day he would sit in cabinet. If so, he might also sit in the national security committee.

How could Shorten leave open this possibility? Do we expect voters would accept having Dastyari travel to Beijing as a senator, committee member or minister and represent Australia’s interests? Could he represent us in meetings with the US?

Perhaps Shorten would appoint Dastyari to parliament’s joint committee on intelligence and security, or to cabinet as defence or foreign minister. Or maybe Labor would send him into retirement as an ambassador to Beijing."

from a reader,
"...Dastyari is an example of all that is broken with the political class in general, and the shameless hypocrisy of the ALP and Shorten.

Once again Shorten and the ALP are given a pass due to incompetence from arguably the most incompetent in name Liberal Prime Minister since the founding of the Liberal Party.

The arrogance of Dastyari in refusing to resign again demonstrates the level of hubris the Opposition now exerts. Thanks to Turnbull and an insipid front bench this ALP Opposition Leader and the same old crew that were Ministers in the Rudd Gillard Governments will soon be back in power."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/shanghai-sam-dastyari-knows-enough-about-back-yards-to-host-a-show/news-story/46d4cbff93a36ed577d2777edd14ba02

Once there was the Peking Man and now there is the Bejing Man.

I still think he could be in breach of section 44 and should be referred to the High Court. He is not a dual citizen, but he has clearly had dealings with, and benefited from, the Chinese communist government via businessmen connected to that government.

While I certainly don't think Dastyari should ever be given any position of influence within any government ever again I don't think there are enough grounds to have him removed from the senate.

When I look at his pretty pathetic indiscretions compared to something like the AWB directly pouring millions of dollars into the coffers of a dictator under UN sanction.

Somehow our then deputy prime minister and foreign minister never set eyes on the over 20 cables from our diplomats and intelligence agencies informing them of the issues with kickbacks.

The Cole Inquiry recommended charges against 12 people yet not one occurred.

Sam is a preschooler compared to Howard and his bunch of nasties.

There is no defence of Dastyari, just another Labor grub. The Chinese billionaire businessman in question, Huang Xiangmo has undoubted links to the Chines government, there would be no such thing as a billionaire businessman in China who has no government links, a fact known to all Australian politicians. The trite indignation over the issue coming out of Turnballs is both hypocritical, and if the matter was not so serious laughable. Mr Xiangmo is very photogenic, having been photographed regularly with top Coalition party members, including Bishop, Abbott and of course Turnbull himself among others, it has also come to light than Andrew Robb was counted as a dear friend by Mr Xiangmo. Labor also have no shame on this with luminaries such as Gillard and Shorten having met, and again being photographed with the very photogenic Mr Xiangmo. Both Labor and the Coalition have received large political donations from Xingmo. The Liberal candidate for Bennelong John Alexander has a close associate of Xiangmo, a Mr Xu, helping him out with his campaign, something voters should "reward" on the 16th December. Xu the close associate was at the meeting between Xiangmo and Dastyari.
The people of Bennelong have a clear choice now, they can vote for Labor or Liberal and get Mr Xiangmo, or they can vote for the Greens, Justin Alick and get fair dinkum Aussie representation.

SR and Paul,

I can see that you are trying desperately hard (and failing miserably) to find some equivalent of the abhorrent behaviour of Sam Dastardly, First taking money directly for personal expenses, and then standing on a platform emblazoned with the insignia of the Aus government and whole heartedly endorsing China annexation of the SCS in direct contravention of the government and Labor policy, then advises the Chinese agent on actions to avoid ASIO surveillance.

Three strikes and you are out Mate.

Dastaryi is a running sore for Labor. Shorten seems to have something smelly in his pilchers too.

Not that Shorten's credibility is worth anything. He is bunging on that that wide-eyed girlie look of innocence, 'Who, me?' look more often. It is his trademark. No need for a lie detector there.

leoj any comment on the fall of Coalition members over section 44. With the HC booting of the non citizen Fiona Nash from parliament. Then their number two pick, Hollie Hughes was found to have stuck her snout in the taxpayer funded trough a bit to early, that seen her flicked. Now the government is refusing to refer its dodgy members to the court. You had lots to say when it was only a couple of Greens, now the boot is well and truly on the other foot. But you have been deafeningly quite on the matter.

Paul1405,

LOL . When you get your own site you can go around hijacking threads and directing posters what to post.

In the interim, here is the thread title and the original post, so go for it!
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8046&page=1

Dear Shadow Minister,

Are you really equating what Sam did compared to shoving hundreds of millions of dollars from Australia into the pockets of Saddam Hussein? A sadistic dictator whose aggression ultimately cost thousands of allied soldiers their lives.

Get real.

SR,

Your faux outrage is amusing, I am not comparing Sam Dastardly's treasonous behaviour with the German invasion of Poland either precisely because it they are both irrelevant to the topic. I know that you desperately trying to deflect from Sam's horrendous behaviour by dredging up ancient history, but no one's buying it.

What do you think of the weasel's 115 pointed questions of the defence department on the behalf of China. I think that the Peking Schmuck should not darken the Senate ever again.

Dear Shadow minister,

Do you believe that illegally putting millions of dollars into the coffers of a dictator with whom we went to war with is treasonous or not?

Actually from a party which boasts Pig Iron Bob I suppose the answer would be no.

Its just that it would most certainly fail any test in any pub in the country.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Chinese businesses are by far the largest
foreign-linked donors to BOTH major parties.
Recent investigative studies show that
between 2013 and 2015 Chinese linked companies
and independent donors have poured more than
$5.5 million into Liberal and Labor coffers.
Analysts say Chinese political donations are one
way Beijing seeks to gain influence in Australia.

As for Sam ? Voters will decide at the next
election. Just as they will with the current
Coalition government and Labor.

SR,

What I believe is that you don't understand the definition of treason, or relevance. Please illuminate the link between the Private company AWB's crimes and an MP acting against his countries interests for money, I believe it is entirely in your fevered imagination.

Foxy,

If you haven't grasped that this issue is way way more than just foreign donations then you have lost the plot. The crimes of Craig Thomson helped bring down Juliar, and Shanghai Sam sitting on the back bench is going to be a rotting albatross around Shorten's neck until the elections in 18 months.

Did someone mention that Liberal fortune cookie Andrew Rodd and his liking for a Chinese takeaway. No sooner had the former Trade Minister Robb cashed in big time with his Aussie taxpayer parliamentary pension. He was then on the payroll of the Chinese big business firm 'Landbridge'. What does Robb have to do to earn his payola of 4,300,000 Chinese Yuan ($A880,000), CONSULT! nothing more than that. so Robb would like us all to believe.

Former NSW Supreme Court judge Anthony Whealy, who examined the terms of a leaked letter from Chinese firm Landbridge to Mr Robb, said that "on the face of it, he is required not to do anything and still get a whacking great fee".

Does anyone think Robb might have been privy to secret government information when Trade Minister, information which could now be very advantageous to Chinese big business. Its time politicians like Robb and others came clean on their secret Chinese business deals.

Shadow, would you agree it looks like Dastyari and Robb are in the back of the rickshaw together on this.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/andrew-robbs-secret-china-contract-money-for-nothing-20171205-gzzaq5.html

I have often wondered why Australia has been so generous when it comes to foreign land grabs in this country, by the likes of the Chinese. Maybe there is a method in the madness, why have they been able to buy the farm at knock down prices, is it a mystery? Its one thing to be able to open up the 'Happy Dragon' restaurant in Dixon Street it an entirely different matter to be able to buy Western Australia for four and sixpence halfpenny, or should I say a couple of yuan! The people should be asking both the Liberal and Labor parties to enlighten us on this oddity, and their connection to it all. Please explain Turnbull and Shorten! Now I sound like Pauline Hanson.

Paul,

As usual your argument is based on innuendo and a lack of logic.

Sam Dastardly is being pilloried for the following:

1 As an MP he gets a very generous salary and is expected not to take money from third parties for his own account which SD did. Whereas A Robb (and Bob Carr etc) as a private consultant gets no independent income and thus has no such limitations.

2 An MP is expected to put the interests of Australia above his own personal interests which SD violated several times on the public record. No one has shown that A Robb has done anything against Australia's interest.

Dear Shadow Minister,

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Every month more examples emerge of Coalition MPs and
officials abusing their power for financial or political
gain. So pointing finers at others really does not give
your side any more credibility especially when Coalition
links with China are so well know. Chinese Mining
Magnate Sally Zou has set up an entity called the "Julie
Bishop Glorious Foundation" to raise money for the Deputy
Leader. Ms Bishop has denied knowledge of this - of course.

There are so many issues of corruption within the party
that should be investigated - from Branch stacking,
to the National Water Plan being subverted, to Barnaby
Joyce's unwillingness to deal with water theft allegations,
to the cash for no criticism - scheme where Ruperr Murdoch
was $30 million handout to Foxtel for no criticism, and the
list goes on - you can read all about it in -

http://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/corruption-rife-in-turnbulls-australia--aided-by-corrupt-mass-media.10540

But of course it's all "Left-Wing" propaganda - isn't it?

Shadow, They is no innuendo, just note where there's smoke, there's fire, In Robb's case who else applied for the job, what advantage could he offer the Chinese as a former Trade Minister, with knowledge of sensitive government information, all in his head. I have no problem with what you say, I only want to put all the vipers into the one pit. Do I have your agreement on that.
Bob Carr, a shining light, do not use him to strengthen your argument, he's in the same class as Sam and Andy.!

Dear Shadow Minister,

My apologies for the earlier link typo - here it
is again:

http://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/corruption-rife-in-turnbulls-australia--aided-by-corrupt-mass-media,10540

Paul,

What utter crap, there is no smoke or fire. All you have shown is that Robb consults to the Chinese no more or less. The rest is no more than nudge nudge wink wink. The reason that the Greens don't consult after parliament is that there is no call to pay for incompetence and outrage.

Foxy,

The Independent Australian is the closest thing to a journalistic sewer where non entities indulge in a fact free whinge against the coalition. And Alan Austin is one of the worst, his allegations of corruption consist almost entirely innuendo, which if anyone actually read this turgid blog would land him in court.

For example, the Murray Darling water plan is an unenforceable agreement between the states negotiated by the incompetent Labor federal government. Joyce doesn't have the authority to intervene and given the morass that is the agreement, shouldn't touch it with a barge poll.

Dear Shadow Minister,

The information presented in the link I cited is
available on the web from other sources. You have
simply chosen to downplay the information because
again it's not from a source that you approve of
which does not make the information inaccurate
as Four Corners and other programs have confirmed.

In any case I again can see that you are one great
stampede of lips directed at the nearest Coalition
derriere.

"The reason that the Greens don't consult after parliament is they do not wish to sell their country out by offering their services to the highest foreign bidder.

Shadow, I offer no defence of Dastyari, politically he is dead meat. I had no regard for the grub, even before the latest blow up.

Robb also needs to explain himself, has he cashed in by selling privy information he obtained as Trade Minister to a business with links to the Chinese government? The taxpayer who placed their trust in Robb, are entitled to know if he is now repaying that trust with disloyalty. it is a fair question.

Foxy,

The point is that the article in the IA is generally fact free and entirely innuendo. For example the idiot tries to claim that Barnaby Joyce is corrupt for not taking action against farms in Queensland taking more water than their allowance. The fact that water rights and enforcement lies entirely with the states. The problem for this moron and his ilk is that the government responsible is Queensland Labor who has all the authority to take action, but as of yet has done sweet F all.

Next this twit relates a rumour of branch stacking by an unnamed person in a unnamed meeting paying unnamed "members" an undisclosed amount.

And then you wonder why I mock your choice of references...

The point is the Peking schmuck was caught taking money in a manner that is strictly forbidden for an MP then openly acting against Australian interests for the individual, and gets caught lying about it. This is not going away and if Shorten wants to avoid another Craig Thomson saga he needs to get rid of Sam.

Paul,

Andrew Robb has been out of politics for nearly 2 years, his encyclopedic knowledge of trade in South East Asia helped seal three free trade deals in the region. It is entirely possible for him to help businesses in the region without harming Australia's interests, and no one has yet come up with a smidgen of evidence to the contrary.

If you want to find out what he is doing, perhaps you should read the link below which gives a lot of detail.

http://www.andrewrobb.com.au/#andrew-robb

Shadow Minister,

I stopped reading your post after the first couple of
words.

But I think that we can both agree that corrupt
politicians make the other ten percent look bad.

Foxy,

I am sorry that you have such a aversion to facts. Corruption is criminal fraud or abuse of power to enrich oneself, and the dim wit Alan Austin has not mentioned one.

Of course Shadow, you are well familiar with that conga line of NSW Liberals which were exposed by the ICAC taking illegal money from property developers.

There is a terrible malaise in Australian politics that the origin of some finance for both sides of politics, is at times suspect. Are these so called donations from dubious sources nothing more than certain quarters buying future favour with government. It does strengthens the argument that only taxpayer money should be the all of political funding, or private donations should be very much limited in the amount, and from whom.

'corrupt politicians make the other ten percent look bad'

No. Few politicians (and few business leaders) are unethical.

What you are seeking to do there is to muddy the waters to conceal the nasty slimy creatures like Dastyari (who must have a lot of dirt on Shorten, who is fearful of him).

More revelations and evidence of the growing divide against ex-union boss Shorten who is shielding Dastardly,

"Sam Dastyari warned Tanya Plibersek to abandon meeting with Hong Kong activist

Embattled Labor senator Sam Dastyari attempted to pressure Deputy Opposition Leader Tanya Plibersek to abandon a meeting with a pro-democracy activist opposed to Beijing's interference in Hong Kong, according to multiple sources who say the 2015 intervention surprised Ms Plibersek.

The incident has prompted concerns about the motive behind Senator Dastyari's decision to approach Ms Plibersek's office, Fairfax Media has been told by three sources familiar with the matter, following other revelations concerning his links to Chinese Communist Party-aligned interests in Australia..."

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sam-dastyari-warned-tanya-plibersek-to-abandon-meeting-with-hong-kong-activist-sources-say-20171210-h01z5o.html

Dear Shadow Minister,

Senator Dastyari has many questions to answer about
the relationship with the Chinese donor. There is
no question about that. However there are also
questions that need to be asked about China's
operations in Australia and about the links of our
politicians to Chinese political donors.

The following links give us more:

http://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2017/chinas-operation-australia/hard-power.html

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/foreign-minister-julie-bishops-links-to-chinese-political-donors-20160823-ggzauy.html

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/political-networking-the-chinese-way-a-sydney-mp-and-his-community-adviser-20170621-gww0k6.html

Paul,

You forget the long conga line of Labor Councillors and MPs before the courts for corrupt behaviour involving developers for which the law was originally written? The labor governments still get all the developer money simply laundered by the unions and activist NGOs such as Getup, with the Greens'snouts deeply in the trough.

The point with Sam Dastardly is that he has not only been caught with his hands in the till, but doing his Chinese masters' will contrary to the interests of Australia

cont'd ...

Dear Shadow Minister,

Amy apologies for the typo in one of my previous links -
here it is again:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/foreign-minister-julie-bishops-links-to-chinese-political-donors-20160823-gqzauy.html

Many politicians on both sides of politics have a great deal to
answer.

Foxy,

The point of donations and voting should be to support the political party that most closely represents your political views and interests. This becomes corruption when the "donations" either are directed to the personal account of the politician involved or are contingent on the recipient party or individual modifying his/its activities or policies to be compliant with the demands of the "donor".

Essentially, the determination of corruption is the direction of the arrow of causality. Do the donations follow the policies, or do the policies follow the donations. That liberal principles give birth to policies focusing on free trade and investment are far more china friendly than Labor's protectionist policies is significant motivation for Chinese donations in a manner that is not corrupt. However, Dastardly's anti Australian/ pro china actions following personal cash donations is as close to direct corruption that can be found.

In short, to make accusations of corruption, you need to show that the corrupt person or party modified their behaviour because of donations, without this the fevered bleating that donations were given is pointless.

Shadow Minister,

The three links given give enough reasons for
questions to be asked of many of our politicians and
their connections with Chinese donors. The
connections as we can see are deeper than just picking
on only select members of opposing parties. Quite a few
politicians have questions that need answering as ASIO
can testify.

Foxy,

These links are tenuous at best. The questions that need to be answered are whether you have anything more than innuendo?

Have these liberals done anything to justify scrutiny other than standing next to a Chinese man?

Dear Shadow Minister,

There are more than millions of dollare of political
donations raising concerns. Also there are case
such as Federal Liberal Party's MP Andrew Robb who
was Minister for Trade and Investment whose
behaviour should have been investigated. It is an
obvious bribe when Andrew Robb gets a big fat donation
off the Chinese the same day he signs a trade deal with
them on behalf of Australia. As someone stated in
The Australian - "In the past we would have hanged him".

Mr Robb stood to gain from the companies. The companies were
linked to the Chinese conglomerate Yuhu - and they mad e
donation to Mr Andrew Robb's fund-raising entity the day
the trade deal was clinched.

Also Mr Robb after serving as trade minister took up an
$800,000 a year job with the Chinese firm - the Landbridge
Group which controls Darwin Port.

You can pass this all off as innuendo - but to me these
political donations do raise concerns. I won't go into
the donations to Julie Bishop's fund-raising entity in
WA and the $500,000 Chinese donations.

If we're going to question one politicians behaviour
and Chinese connections - we rightly should question them
all!

Dear Foxy, looks like he is leaving the Parliament and will not be returning in the new Year.

Deat SteeleRedux,

We can only trust that laws will now be passed in
Parliament to protect our country against the
undue influence of foreign political donations.
However, I won't hold my breath.

Dear Foxy,

As this buzzfeed article illustrates the laws on undue influence will probably include provisions on whistle blowers that may well be detrimental to our democracy.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/paulfarrell/australia-seeks-new-gag-laws-that-could-see-journalists-and?utm_term=.jpoJeAZm7Y#.vywgPmvKWx

Dear SteeleRedux,

Let's hope that the Independent MPs will be watching
this closely and act accordingly. Jacquie Lambie we need
you!

So, Dastardly finally resigned!

What cozy sinecure has he been parachuted into?

When will Shorten be resigning? He let Dastardly off with a slap on the wrist and he also met with the same Chinese person at his house and later changed a policy, didn't he?

When will Plibersek be replacing Shorten and 'invited' by the Caucus to do so? Or are the heavily male weighted union factions determined to block her?

His name is Sam Dastyari.

A political donations crackdown is long overdue.

Senior Coalition figures have long accepted donations
from Chinese companies the difference is that Labor
no longer does while PM Malcolm Turnbull has refused
to make the same guarantee.

The following link explains:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-04/foreign-spies-political-donations-crackdown-long-overdue/9223854

Leoj, you are obviously a political novice. With just the slightest understanding of the basics you would know that Shorten had no power to sack Dastyari from parliament. No more than Turnbull has the power to sack Abbott, no matter how much he might like to do so. Your rantings about Shorten are totally misguided, but you rantings are mostly misguided, if not, down right wrong.

I was happy to see the grub resign, not much else can be done.

Foxy, SR,

The problem is not the existing laws it is the labor party. Labor councils and MPs take personal bribes from developers for favours and their answer is to ban donations from developers. Now that a labor MP has been caught taking personal bribes for favours, now their answer is to ban foreign donations. But that will not stop the likes of Obeid, MacDonald, and other labor crooks.

Any donations, or position of power is possible to abuse, but most MPs obey the rules and the few crooked Labor MPs have paid the price.

Note that Labor is still getting developer and foreign donations, but simply laundering them through the unions or Getup.

Dear Shadow Minister,

That still does not explain why our Prime Minister
did not give a guarantee regarding foreign political
donations whereas Labor did.

The Coalition are the ones in power. It is time to fix
problems not to continue to blame Labor.
Most disappointing.

Foxy,

You have still yet to point out any problems with foreign donations in the Liberal party.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I've already done so.

You just refuse to see it.

Political donations crackdown is long overdue.

As stated earlier senior Coalition figures have
regularly met Mr Huang and accepted donations from
his company. The difference is Labor no longer does while
Malcolm Turnbull has refused to make the same guarantee.

http://www.abc.net.au/2017-12-04/foreign-spies-political-donations-crackdown-long-overdue/9223854

ooops -

I hurried and made a mistake.

Here it is again:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-04/foreign-spies-political-donations-crackdown-long-overdue/9223854

No Foxy, you haven't.

You have pointed out the obvious that both parties have got donations from Chinese businessmen. So far only one Labor MP has been shown to have acted corruptly with respect to foreign donations from one country and yet you call for a complete ban on all overseas donations? Just a little bit of an overreaction like banning driving cars after one accident.

As for Shorten his promises are worth nothing. A month ago he was claiming that Labor's vetting procedures were first class, and calling for transparency in the dual citizenship saga, then the moment at least 4 of his MPs failed the test he refused to refer them to the high court.

Finally, we don't need an alcoholic pinhead of an MP such as Jackie Lambie.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I take it then that you don't feel there was anything
suss about the fact - that companies
linked to the Chinese conglomerate Yuhu Group
made a donation to the then trade Minister Andrew
Robb's fundraising entity the day their trade deal
was clinched. You don't feel that this should have
been investigated when Andrew Robb got a big fat
donation off the Chinese the same day he signed a
trade deal on behalf of Australia with China. And
that there's nothing suss about the fact that Mr
Robb after serving as trade Minister took up an
$800,000 a year job with the Chinese firm the
Landbridge Group, which controls Darwin Port.
And the fact that his contract stipulates that he
gets paid that even though he does nothing.

We get it. It's all innuendo right. Andrew Robb is
not a grub. But Sam Dastyari is. So where's Sam today
and where's Andrew Robb?

Who's career is thriving and whose isn't?

cont'd ...

As far as Senator Jacqui Lambie is concerned?

Your reference to her addiction problem which
stemmed from her time in the army while serving
her country and trying
to survive as a single mother which she has
since overcome is really, really low and from
you - unexpected. I had always assumed you were
better than that consider your alias is
"Shadow Minister." Instead I am beginning to
realise that perhaps you do belong in the shadows.

I guess that you
would not criticise the boozers rolling in the
aisles at Liberal functions or for that matter
the ones who sniff women's chairs, have
extra-marital affairs, or act as wrecking balls
against their government's stability. Not to mention
ones who take political donations and bribes and
positions from foreigners.
Those you can overlook

Foxy,

I am staggered by the breadth and depth of your hypocrisy. That Jackie Lambie or any other pollie has a drinking problem, mistresses on the side etc is not my concern as long as they keep it out of parliament. That Lambie is renowned for very liquid lunches and most days sitting in the senate while she is as pissed as a fart is my concern. That she is rumored to dabble in other recreation pharmaceuticals and has the IQ of a squirrel are also problems. If she isn't fit to drive a car then she shouldn't be in the senate.

As for Andrew Robb who pushed through a FTA with China that hugely benefited both Chinese and Australian companies and several other FTAs that Howard started and Labor sat on for 6 years, that Chinese businesses were grateful is not surprising. The point is that AR would have done the same without and donations. The real question is what did Labor do to get the lion's share of the donations after doing bugger all?

AR is legally entitled to do whatever he wants after leaving parliament as long as he does not compromise the interests of Australia. And as you have not a smidgen of evidence that he has ever acted against Australia's interests, all you can do is attempt to smear him. If you have real questions then ask them, until then all you have is sanctimonious finger wagging.

Shadow Minister,

You said that you continue to be staggered by
the breadth and depth of my hypocrisy?

That does not surprise me.

That way you can conveniently forget your own faults
and continue to only see the faults in someone else.

A true hypocrite to the core.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Can you really be that bloody partisan?

Strewth. There is not a single bloody thing that is not on the nose about Andrew Robb's dealings with his Chinese benefactors and for you to sit there and claim all is rosy is an anathema.

Corporate donations to political parties in this country is a cancer. We hold to a tradition of separation of church and state but we desperately need to develop one around the separation of business and the state.

The reason I left the Australian Democrats was due to this very issue. The national executive had decided the party needed to play like the larger parties and then sold seats to corporations at a dinner with the senators. One of them came up to me afterward and said they needed a shower. The moral high ground the party had enjoyed was pissed up against the wall and played a very large part in the reasons for why they are no longer a force.

Andrew Robb however has so dramatically lowered the bar on this that he should be facing a corruption inquiry right now. At the very least his actions would not pass the pub test in and damn pub in the country except possibly the members at the MCG.

Come on mate. You don't have to feel like you need to defend this bloke even if he is from your side of politics.

And if you want to sling off at Lambie by saying she is mostly drunk in parliament you had better come up with some kind of proof because at the moment it reeks of unsubstantiated tripe.

Shadow you try to maka witha de funny ah!

"Labor councils and MP's take personal bribes from developers for favours"

No less than a conga line of 13 Liberals had to front the NSW ICAC for doing exactly what you accuse Labor of.

Everything developers want is approved by the Liberal government. After the mandatory back door donation to the slush fund of course.

The former Liberal primer Mike Baird hit pay dirt 5 weeks after resigning. A top paying job, $2,000,0000 p/a at NAB arranging loans for developers.

Dear SteeleRedux and Paul,

This link has just come up on the web:

http://newmatilda.com/2017/12/13/sam-slammed-but-not-by-a-federal-anti-corruption-watchdog-notably/

It's an interesting read.

SR,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-31/jacqui-lambie-stoush-documents-made-public/8860314

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/jacqui-lambies-former-chiefofstaff-has-accused-her-of-excessive-alcohol-consumption/news-story/ee879192dbb5649d8357efcf2e20a646

SR and Foxy,

I have been crystal clear and consistent. I don't believe that the majority of politicians are corrupt, and while a few bad apples may use their power to enrich themselves most don't, and those that do generally get caught. So I don't think that the age old tradition of companies donating to parties representing their interests should be stopped any more than voters donating money. If you want to stop corporate donations, then you have to stop union donations and union/Getup funded political activity.

As for your pub test, I guess that if the Democrats made policy based on half pissed ignoramuses then there is no doubt why they collapsed.

As for Andrew Robb, other than the left whinge crime making a lot of money as a private consultant in a field that he is a world leading expert, I have yet to see you level one valid claim against him. As an MP he has never taken money personally, he has never done favours for donations, and outside parliament, he has never compromised Australian interests. There is nothing to defend him against. I challenge you again to show any evidence that he has broken any law or even any ministerial conduct.

Paul,

Lying again!!

Corruption is taking money personally in return for granting favours by abusing one's position in power, the labor MPs that faced criminal charges did just that, the liberal MPs that resigned did not.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Those documents come from someone running an unfair dismissal case and who most certainly stands to gain from casting Lambie in the worst possible light.

Indeed most of those statements were withdrawn, probably because they were not able to be properly substantiated. Even the original claims did not say Lambie was under the influence in the chamber nor that she was unable to cast her vote because she was passed out drunk like Abbott.

You are going to have to do a hell of a lot better than that.

As to Robb;

“in a field that he is a world leading expert”. Bull dust. What field would that be? He was an “agricultural economist with the Victorian Department of Agriculture and a tutor in Economics at La Trobe University.” Not a lecturer mind you, just a tutor.

“As an MP he has never taken money personally”. Yes he did. 'Coalition defends Andrew Robb after revelation he started job while an MP'.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jun/06/coalition-defends-andrew-robb-after-revelation-he-started-job-while-an-mp

“he has never done favours for donations”. Really? “Companies linked to Chinese conglomerate Yuhu Group made a donation to then trade minister Andrew Robb's fundraising entity the day the trade deal was clinched.”
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/chinese-interests-play-an-increasing-role-in-australian-and-political-donations-20160517-goxl8b.html

Stinks to high heaven and you know it and yet here you are defending the man.

The Coalition has lost a string of members to
integrity scandals including Minister Stuart
Robert, forced to resign for his lobbying of
business interests in China while on an
official trip.

SR,

I have a lot more against Lambie than you have against AR. She seriously stinks to high heaven.

According to you, AR and the coalition spent nearly a decade formulating a series of trade deals for a couple of grand donation. Now you are just being stupid.

P.S. AR negotiating 4 FTAs and the TPP with nearly a dozen nations gives him a CV that only a handful of people can equal.

As for the contract he signed, NOTE, that he resigned the next day, precisely to prevent a conflict of interest and before he took any money.

So to sum up what have you got against AR -- Sweet FA. I again challenge you again to show any evidence that he has broken any law or even any ministerial conduct.

Shadow Minister,

Perhaps the following link may help clarify things for
you regarding Andrew Robb:

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/12/china-stooge-robb-gets-comeuppance/

cont'd ...

Last October when former trade minister Andrew Robb
took a job with the Landbridge Group who won the
notorious 99 year lease at Darwin Port - the
appointment breached Ministerial standards.

Mr Robb actively took the job a day before he left office.
During his "cooling off" period Mr Robb led a delegation of
Australian Government Trade Officials to China.

Excuses should not be made for this Minister.

Why is Dastardly still on the payroll? He claims to have resigned, but when? Or is that still if?

When will Bill Shorten sack the slippery S.O.B?

leoj, you just can't get it can you, Shorten cannot sack a member of parliament, including Dastyari. I would think Labor's NSW Right have a consolation prize for Keneally, if she gets rolled on Saturday in the Bennelong by-election. Dastardly can resign on Monday and Keneally, having lost, is then eligible to take his place in the Senate.

The biggest opposition to a Federal ICAC is the Coalition and Labor. On this they have an unanimous policy "we don't want one!" Why? like in NSW the ICAC would be a most effective weapon in uncovering corrupt Labor and Liberal politicians.

It is a deceit. Dastaryi hasn't resigned from the Parliament at all has he? He is hanging on, still receiving his Senate pay and a drain on taxpayers.

Shorten is compounding the insult to the public by shielding the manipulative rogue and making excuses, such as that "former Greens leader Christine Milne took 98 days to leave the Parliament after her resignation". Equating Dastaryi's situation to Milne's is a lie. Dastaryi still has a Senator's access to Australia's confidential information, including on highly desirable (to China) secret commercial operations and on private individuals, all here for example.

Paul1405,
How typical of the NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens to neglect the security threat and breaches of trust by Dastaryi and instead, to focus on scoring shabby political points. Your own 'wrecking ball', the awful Lee Rhiannon, should have resigned many times from the Greens and from the Senate too for positions she takes against the interests of Australia. But Rhiannon is protected by the NSW branch, by the 'Watermelon' faction, the Trots.

Of course Shorten has remedies easily to hand for that slimy, greedy little grub Dastaryi and the first he should have taken is to expel him from the Labor Party.

Foxy,

The ministerial handbook requires ministers not to take up employment in an occupation related to their portfolio, which the lease of the port of Darwin was not the purview of the minister of trade. Secondly he is working as a self employed consultant.

The left whingers are desperately trying to make this look illegal or unethical as a distraction from the odious activities of Dastardly, but failing miserably.

Leoj, how pathetic, calling for the resignation of politicians who do not agree with your hard right world view "against the interests of Australia". Do you favour a Senate Committee of one hard right Senator, to flush out "Un-Australian Activity" by those of the not so patriotic left, might even discover rampant communism everywhere. Starting with the Parliamentary Greens, and eventually they would be dragging all sorts of "lefties" before the Peoples Tribunal, a catchy name, for interrogation, then determining their degree of guilt, there would be no findings of innocence, just the guilty. The 'Citizens Militia' could escort them to the re-education camps.
Is that not something right up your alley?

Paul1405,

Cough, gasp, when your smoke clears..

The Greens elite, wealthy privileged types with multimillion dollar homes, farm serially aggrieved and disgruntled 'useful idiots' for votes to keep their expanding behinds on Senate seats.

You have been asked before, but here once again, have either of this pair, Rhiannon or Sh**bridge, ever done anything practical for those 'Struggle Streets'? Or ever invited you to their $million plus homes for a bite and a tipple from their top shelf? Either could buy and sell a Greens protest mob many times over and then some.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hardleft-faction-forms-inside-greens-aiming-to-end-capitalism-20161222-gtghf9.html

Shadow Minister,

Read the link I gave you. It contradicts your
assessment of the situation.

Plus, there are heaps of other sources on the
web that do the same thing. Even Malcolm Turnbull's
ministers (Barnaby Joyce in particular)
have stopped excusing Andrew Robb's
behaviour. I am absolutely gob-smacked at your reactions.

Foxy,

The problem with your link is that it muddles up the time lines, and I know that the concept of evidence is difficult to grasp for most left whingers who use the "pub test" as the gold standard. Here is the time line of events:

-AR resigned from the portfolio of Trade Minister on Feb 10 2016 and at the same time announced that he would not re-contest the next election and as a result his position as MP fell open from May 9 2016 when the election was declared.
-In May 2016 AR led a trade delegation to China as an Envoy.
-In July 2016 1 day before the election AR signed a contract with Landbridge.
-On 10 Aug 2017 (18 months from being a minister) AR's restriction against lobbying Government MPs lapsed.

The 3 charges the left whingers have levelled against AR are:

1 That he acted against the interests of Australia, for which no evidence whatsoever has been presented in any form. (other than earning a large sum of money which left whingers think must be a crime)
2 That he took money from the Chinese whilst still an MP, for which there is no evidence whatsoever.
3 That he lobbied Government MPs for Chinese companies in the 18 months from being a minister again for which there is no evidence since the trip to China occurred before he left parliament and long before he contracted to the Chinese.

So Foxy, if you have actual real evidence then please present it.

Shadow Minister,

No longer interested.

Shadow, a 6% swing against your mob in Bennelong, repeated at a general election and Turnballs is history. KKK proved to be a bad choice for Labor, too much baggage, might be Eddies gal but no one else's. Turnballs hangs on for a while longer.

Happy Holidays in Point Piper.

Our Prime Minister will now be able to have a
relaxed Christmas and so will his family.

Mr Turnbull's 2018 recovery is not certain but
his demise would have been had he lost Bennelong.

Wishing you all the magic of Christmas
And much Happiness in the New Year 2018!

Happy Festive Season to you and your Family, and all the best for the New Year.

I must say KKK who I've had some experience campaigning against in the stare seat of Heffron would not have been my first choice for Labor candidate in Benelong, I found her very shallow on the issues, always working to scrip. Admittedly she was Primer, and did not spend a great deal of time local campaigning, left most of the groundwork to her 'yes men'. Both Keneally and Alexander are 'blow ins' in the seat, The days where Labor and Liberal could rely on a face to win votes is under threat, in my opinion. Had a Melbourne Cup size field of starters, 12 lined up, which never helps the Greens, and the Australian Conservatives vote was a shocker, considering there was no On Nation dude maybe they will do better in Queensland.

Foxy, and Paul,

Best wishes for the Xmas season.

Foxy,

I feel sorry that you struggle to differentiate between opinion and fact.

Paul,

If the 7% swing to the the coalition in New England by election is repeated across the country, Labor will loose about 20 seats.

It was good to see that after all Labor's huge effort, shameless lies and scare campaigns that they only managed a 5% swing against a sitting government MP where the average swing is about 6.5%. It bodes well for the election in 2019.

Dear Paul,

I'm not familiar with KKK - except that I think she's
good-looking and appears to be quite popular.
But then I think Mr Alexander seems to be quite presentable
as well. Malcolm Turnbull has been thrown a life-line with
this election win. He now needs to get the party together,
stop their in-fighting and come up with decent policies
to attract voters. A win at the next election will require
more work on his part.

Dear SM,

I'm sorry you feel that way. But I guess that's to be
expected.

Cheers.

Foxy,

Kristina's initials are KK not KKK as Paul would like to suggest.

However, I am always concerned for the differently abled.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Thanks for that.

However, I've got no opinion on KK - I don't know that
much about her. However I do like Mr Alexander.
And if I lived in Bennelong I'd probably have voted
for him. Instead I live in Melbourne - in the
electorate of Kevin Andrews. (smile).

Kristina Kerscher Keneally, better known to some as the KKK. You don't know much do you Shadow.

Paul,

Enjoy your small victory, as they are very rare.

I guess that calling Kristina KKK is an inside joke at the Greens for the reason that the Ku Klux Klan, is better known as the KKK and anyone that ridicules the greens has to be a fascist.

Shadow Minister,

The same as anything not published by NewsCorp
has to be "Leftist Propaganda?"

Hmmmmm?

Foxy,

I often quote Fairfax and many other sites. However, I stay away from dedicated left whinge sites to which you frequently refer.

Shadow Minister,

I refer to many sources because we gleam
information from a variety of outlets.
And it is always good to hear various
sides of an argument. That's part and parcel
of learning.

Unfortunately some people prefer to ignore
facts that hurt their position. Blame someone
else for their failure and if all else fails
call it all "Leftish Whinge" of "Fake News".

Foxy,

I look forward to you posting your first link from a site that is not left of centre.

Shadow, you can't take a trick. "I guess that calling Kristina KKK is an inside joke at the Greens" Nah, got that from a Labor bloke, some years back.The Liberals call her Eddies Gal, a reference to her elevation to the loft position of NSW Premier with the blessing of Eddie Obeid, something that will haunt her for the rest of her political days.

BTW; when can we expect that "immanent" arrests you were crowing about in the Beat Up Bolt case?

Paul1405,

What do you know about the 'Beat Up Bolt case'?

Paul,

You can't stop lying. The word immanent was yours not mine.

Shadow, you know I respect your legal opinion, you being widely read at law, as you claim. having read every 'Dick Tracy' comic ever produced, that would qualify you as a legal expert in anyone's book. I do recall you being up front in the peanut gallery at the time, claiming an arrest of some fringe dwellers of the left was imminent in the Beat Up Bolt case. Do you not recall?

A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Paul,

Why do you keep lying? I have checked this and called you out on this many times. I never said that.

If I make a mistake, I acknowledge it and move on. You should try it.

Shadow Minister,

I look forward to the day that you don't:

1) Ignore facts that hurt your position.

2) Blame someone else for your failure.

3) Call sources that don't agree with your
viewpoint - "Leftist propaganda".

Anything not acting as a propaganda arm for the
arch conservatives is considered Leftist it seems.

Foxy,

"I look forward to the day that you don't:

1) Ignore facts that hurt your position."

Pull the other one, it whistles!!

Dear Is Mise,

One killer exercise that's really great
is pull-ups with your legs out level.
That's my favourite. It's such functional
core-strength.

I'd like to see things from your perspective
though but I can't get my head that far up my
butt.

Foxy,

You would do well to follow your own advice.

SM,

I always do!

cont'd ...

It has taken me a long time to be able to be
secure and unafraid of speaking my own mind.
Yes, there are moments when I feel that -
Gee, I shouldn't have said that, or maybe I
should have said it differently. Perhaps I
should work on my presentation - it is
important to be conscious and compassionate
and act with civility but that should not
mean to forsake your own wisdom.

What's more important losing face, or losing
your integrity?

Foxy,

Then someone else must be posting for you.

Shadow Minister,

Oh dear.

You can never see a belt without
hitting below it.

How to stick the knife in without leaving
a telling gash - do it with words.
The scar will be that much deeper.

:(

Foxy,

While I wish you a merry Xmas and happy new year, I feel I need to make myself clear:

Journalistic sites are those that assemble all the facts and draw conclusions based on those facts, such as Fairfax and Newscorp. The left leaning Fairfax might focus more on stories that interest the left, and Newscorp might focus more on stories that interest the right.

A propaganda site is one that has a preconceived set of values and opinions and writes articles that assemble facts from other sources to support their values and ignore those that don't and inevitably come to the same conclusions time after time. Good examples of such disreputable sites are Independent Australia and New Matilda.

There are plenty of right wing blogs with polemics that show the same lack of journalistic tendencies as NM and IA, but I never post from them or link to them, as I would then deserve the scorn of other OLO members, so don't be surprised when I call you out.

Shadow, do you think that pair of Coalition fools, Barnyard Joyce and Booby Alexander will ever repay the millions their stupidity cost the taxpayer for by-elections to get their jobs back. What do you think?

Paul,

Sure soon as Scott Dumdum and Pissy Waters Pay back their salaries staff costs and entitlements for the past decade for their moronic stupidity.

But Shadow, we got those Greens excellent input to the Parliament over all those years, that's worth millions. What did we got for our million of dollars with those by-elections? We got the two booby's back! That's like paying the local council to take your garbage away on Tuesday, only to have them bring it back on Wednesday at your cost!

Well,wel, well you may say. Barney hasn't been totally preoccupied with his citizenship has he. And such a holier-than-thou Christian he be. The hypocrite opposed SSM, but what does he think of polygamy I wonder?

Paul,

On the bright side we did get rid of the trash in Scott Dumdum and Pissy Waters

Is Larissa Waters already receiving that golden superannuation? It is not as though Greens are ever concerned about spending taxpayers' money on themselves. Larissa Waters' self-indulgence will never be forgotten,

"Queensland Greens Senator Larissa Waters spent $414,000 on fitout for Paddington office

GREENS Senator Larissa Waters spent a whopping $414,000 to fit out her trendy Paddington office – more than any of her Queensland political colleagues at the time.
The office, on the top floor of a pristine-condition, split-level building on Given Tce, includes a rooftop patio with timber outdoor furniture and artificial turf..."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/queensland-greens-senator-larissa-waters-spent-414000-on-fitout-for-paddington-office/news-story/5c14c0a7fd00d406168494ea43c57c18

Yup,

The Greens have their snouts in the taxpayer trough as deep or deeper than anyone else.

Pound the table and yell like hell!

Shadow, how about that conga line of NSW Liberals with their snouts in Developers pockets, all brought before the ICAC before being dispatched in disgrace. And all those Liberals kicked out of office because of the ICAC, two Primers no less, Whiner Greiner followed by Boozy Barry. They should be checking out Baird and Berejiklian, a slippery pair of customers indeed!

Leoj you lie, Larissa Waters, never approved or spent a penny of taxpayers money. Not like your gal Hanson, how much did she cost the taxpayer to keep her in jail?

Paul 1405,

It wasn't something I was saying. As you are perfectly aware it was a news report. I have never been a member of any political party and nor will I ever be.

Then again your comments give you away.

You put your name to lies; that makes you a liar in my book. You endorsed these comments.

"GREENS Senator Larissa Waters spent a whopping $414,000 to fit out her trendy Paddington office"

She personally spent nothing. That is a blatant lie.

Paul,

You forget your fuhrer paying his baby sitter $4/hr, the greens council candidate who got done for child porn and other offenses, and the record expense claims by several of the Greens MPs.

In Calling Leoj a liar, that is what you have become again. The figures he quoted are in the public record and have been reported in several newspapers from different publishing houses.

The total expenses claimed by Waters for the 1st 6 months of 2013 are nearly $550 000 incl the lavish office redecorating.

There are many more figures for that particular
year on public record. Strange though that
only selective ones are quoted by the usual people.

As an example - the following facts were overlooked:

1) Federal politicians claimed almost $50 million
to cover their travel, office and telephone expenses
in the first 6 months of that year. And it was South
Australian Liberal Senator Anne Ruston who splurged
$650,000 in expenses. She had the biggest bill.

But, hey who's counting. If we started to tally up
the score for all - it would be quite revealing.

Foxy,

The point is that it is the greens that are holier than thou and the primary finger waggers, yet the Greens MPs with no government portfolios are some of the worst offenders with regards liberal spending of taxpayers money.

Also if you had read further down the article Anne Ruston's expenses were due to the move to a regional area that she represented, and the entire cost of this would save more than the entire rebuild by reduced rents in less than one year.

Shadow Minister,

The point is that there is no "holier than thou"
attitude for many politicians. And claiming
anything else is simply BS.

I did read the entire article about Liberal
Senator Anne Ruston. Her bill was quite substantially
more than that of Larissa Waters. For whom by the
way - it was a one-of expense for establishing a new
office for a first-time Senator. And I won't go into
the details of George Brandis's infamous custom-made
book case for his office and the costs involved.

Nor the politicians generous perks - including tag-along
overseas trips for spouses, business class airfares
for kids, chauffeur driven cars, and much much more.

The costs involved are in the millions - while pensioners
were asked to "tighten their belts" by Mr Hockey to pay
back the debt.

Nice.

Foxy,

Yes let's focus on a single $30 000 bookshelf and ignore a $400 000 office redecoration.

Again it is the pub test measurement. That Brandis as a barrister and AG has a vast collection of law books accumulated over decades worth over $100 000, and still his total office revamp still cost less.

Shadow Minister,

We should focus on all of the perks and
spending of the MPs - not only on a
select few as has been the case here.
I am merely pointing out that none deserve
to have a "holier than thou" attitude and
fingers should not be pointed at only certain
members of parliament whilst ignoring others.

Poor show old chap!

Poor show!

"Greens that are holier than thou"; Shadow, I can understand all your anguish, given the Greens exceptionally clean record in public office. Unlike the corrupt Coalition, with their regular visits, and subsequent penalises imposed by the ICAC, Just as the Greens don't have an Obeid or a Macdonald, they don't have a Greiner or O'Farrell either.

No, Paul, but the Greens do have proven liars among their MPs.

Name one politician who has never
lied.

George Washington never lied, so they say, he even admitted he chopped down the cherry tree.

I do not take the cynical view of politicians, having met a few in my lifetime, from all political persuasions, I say the majority are decent people. MP's are not inherently bad people, most enter parliament with a desire to achieve good things for society, but often the reality is somewhat more mundane. I know one poly particularly well, and her working day is long, often leaving home at 7am and not returning until after 8pm. The day is taken up with such 'office work' as committee meetings, a lot of correspondence, all sorts of meetings etc. The actual sitting in parliament is only a small part of her workday. Most would be surprised as to how much work an MP has to do. I would say Malcolm Turnbull and those before him, had a very hard and long working day, 7 days a week, it would be very stressful at times.

Sorry Issy, on the other hand, I can't speak for that pair of lying scum buckets, the Two Bobs, Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Even Dummer from the Shooters and Hooters Party. The reality is they probably work a hard day as well.

George Washington did tell a lie:

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/george-washington-tells-a-lie/

But it was for a good cause.

Paul,

just as many greens have been declared corrupt by ICAC as Liberals.

Because the greens accept huge donations that are laundered by the criminal CFMEU means that the greens are far dirtier than the liberals.

Shadow, a New Years resolution for you. "In 2018 I am going to tell the truth." No Greens have been before the ICAC, and not likely to, not like that conga line of disgraced Liberals, who had their snouts well and truly in the pockets of developers in NSW. Name Names! I will.

Chris Hartcher, Darren Webber, Chris Spence, Marie Ficarra, Mike Gallacher, Andrew Cornwell, Tim Owen, Garry Edwards, Bart Bassett and Craig Baumann!

Standing room only in the ICAC dock, the day the above nest of Liberal vipers appeared. They are now all members of the "Friends of Eddie Club" along with Greiner and O'Farrell.

p/s, I await YOUR LIST of Greens! make sure its written on recycled paper as we are champions for the Environment and not the cronies of Developers.

Paul,

You have yet to provide a list of Liberals that have been declared corrupt in spite of your claims.

I have provided the name of a former greens candidate convicted of child sex offences.

Foxy,

Robert Brown, Robert Borsak, Philip Donato all SFF's Party MsP in the NSW Parliament.
Never lied to Parliament and never lied in the media.

Very few other Parties can make such a claim.

Police confirmed that an investigation into upper house MP Robert Borsak, which began in 2013, was completed late last year and handed to prosecutors for consideration.

A detective was assigned to investigate Mr Borsak after a Supreme Court judge, Robert McDougall, said he and an associate had given “knowingly untrue” evidence during a 2011 civil court matter.

Issy, how could you lie like that about a known political liar. The Elephant eating Borsak!

Shadow, you also lie about "greens candidate convicted of child sex offences." As far as I am aware no conviction was recorded against such a candidate. As a friend of the Catholic clergy you should say three 'Hail Marys' and a 'Glory Be To The Greens' as penance for your untruthfulness.

Happy New Year to you both, and remember your New Years resolution "I will stop telling porkies on the forum, I will be truthful like Paul 1405 and all those virtuous Greens are."

Okay Shadow if you are going to be perdantic here it is in list form, just for you;

Greiner and O'Farrell (Top of the list).
Chris Hartcher, (a biggie)
Darren Webber,
Chris Spence,
Marie Ficarra,
Mike Gallacher, (another biggie)
Andrew Cornwell,
Tim Owen,
Garry Edwards,
Bart Bassett
Craig Baumann!

Paul,

You really need to stop lying. Karel was convicted in 2016 and sentenced in 2017, and none of the liberals were found to be guilty of corruption. Note that corruption is the use of public office for personal benefit. A person is not lying if you are ignorant about the facts.

To refresh your memory:

"A FORMER Greens candidate has been charged with grooming a child for sex and having child pornography material after police carried out an online sting.

Karel Solomon, a Greens member who contested the 2012 Marrickville local council election, was arrested on Tuesday afternoon in an undercover police operation.

Police allege Solomon, 61, made sexually explicit comments to a police officer posing as a 13-year-old girl online during the operation last month.

He then planned to meet the girl at a Parramatta restaurant but was instead confronted by detectives.

Karel was once a member of the Greens Petersham/Newtown Branch and was part of the “Green Team” in the 2012 Marrickville election."

And:

"Greens member Karel Solomon, a candidate in the 2012 Marrickville local council election who will be sentenced next year."
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/online-grooming-strike-force-trawler-undercover-police-expose-a-dark-world-20161215-gtc6oo.html

Shadow, since you are up with the case what sentence did this Karel Solomon receive?

And since you couldn't find anything about this Solomon character, other than a bit of vagary, you thought the next best thing is to post something about some bloke named Patrick Foley Wilson who featured in the link provided. Is this Wilson person a member of a political party, as I don't see the relevance.

Well, like others Solomon got trapped by the coppers, gets what he deserves. Reminds me of how the coppers in England trapped that well known Liberal Alan Jones. Shameful underhanded action by the coppers would you not say. In the Jones episode, not any other.

Paul,

I guess that is the closest you will ever get to an apology. If you want to find out what happened to your comrade, feel free to look it up. It will give you practise so that you don't make yourself a liar by falsely accuse people of being liars.

Shadow, the reality is all you can come up with to throw dirt at the Greens, is something, some years later, about a bloke who in 2012 was a would be if he could be, but failed in the attempt, at some local council election. PATHETIC!

Maybe like Jones, this Solomon character received a profuse apology from the judge for copper entrapment, can you show otherwise? And there is no compulsion for me to look it up.
The fact is you have no idea what happened to this Solomon fool. He may well have scored a "Jones" you don't have the foggiest because in 5 minutes it lost its news worthiness, even for your Murdoch gutter press.

Issy, you certainly shot yourself in the foot by trying to put Blowhard Bob Borsak from your Shooters and Hooters Party on the "Goodie Two Shoe List" Again PATHETIC!

Paul,

I can believe that you are defending a convicted Pedophile just because he was a member of the greens just after demanding that a driver be convicted of murder on no evidence.

Similarly, perhaps you could show where any one of those libs you lying called corrupt ever were convicted of anything.

Here's more for you to chew on:

"Sitting Greens MP Tammy Franks found guilty on tax charges"

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/greens-mp-an-unimpressive-witness-in-tax-case-magistrate/news-story/c55cd38659f665052fa61d80db75a194?sv=eb813e5f6cd6ecac170b2338ddf641f3

Shadow, for one who claims to be so learned at the law. Didn't you get some sort of law degree out of the Cornflakes packet or something, you can't tell the difference between criminal and corrupt behaviour.

What the named Liberals did by setting up a slush fund for illegal money to come their way from developers was corrupt. What these others did was criminal. The payback to developers has been a 98% approval of their development applications by the Coalition State Government.

"I can believe that you are defending a convicted Pedophile" you can believe what you like, I asked did he use the "Jones" defence. It worked for Jones in England, maybe it worked for this fool in Australia. You tell me what was the outcome. You can't because you don't know.

Paul,

For someone that is pig ignorant of the law, a person is only given a date for sentencing once found guilty, and given that others caught in the sting got 8 months jail time for less, the chances are the greens member got a slap on the wrist is bugger all. I am calling you a liar unless you can show otherwise.

Secondly corruption is a serious criminal offense of which none of the individuals you have named have been implicated by ICAC or as far as I can see even charged with a misdemeanor.

Shadow, I see you are more befuddled than usual on this matter. What the topic is about is how politicians are corrupted in public office. Matters which concern the ICAC that second "C" stands for "CORRUPTION". Something your conga line of Liberals would be well familiar with, having being exposed as they were by that vary useful body.
A Federal ICAC is something that the Greens very much favour, but surprise, surprise, both Liberal and Labor are not supportive of, I wonder why.

p/s Where is that list of Liberal skunks theses days, not in the parliament I see. Admittedly your boys and girls are not in the same league as Eddie and Ian from Labor, but give them time.

Paul, I see that your delusion has deepened.

It is worth noting that ICAC did not declare any of these Libs as corrupt, and as far as I can see no charges have been pressed against them, unlike a Greens member Karel Solomon, Who was charged and convicted for a range of pedophilia related charges, and sitting greens MP Tammy Franks was convicted for tax crimes.

Not to mention the acceptance of proceeds of crime by the greens to buy their votes.

The Greens MPs are getting close to Eddie Obeid and his mates.

Shadow if you want to throw in red herrings try these LIBERAL criminals:

"A former West Australian federal LIBERAL PARTY MP has been sentenced to 14 months jail for fraud.
The former member for Tangney, Peter Shack, was found guilty of stealing $100,000 from his former wife's family trust."

Its catching; they even steal from their own.

Disgraced former Victorian LIBERAL PARTY director Damien Mantach has been sentenced to five years' jail for stealing more than $1.5 million from state party coffers.

Other LIBERAL PARTY luminaries to cop criminal charges in recent times;

Tony Packard
Barry Morris
Ray O;Connor
Wayde Smith

I wont even bother to list Liberal cronies from the National Party and their criminal acts.

Shadow, when it comes to the law, and criminality, Liberal and Labor out do the Greens any day.

Shadow, your attempt to smear The Greens is PATHETIC.
Again its game, set and match, for me with this debate. You couldn't back a winner in a one horse race.

The Score; Paul1405 100 v Shadow Minister zilch!

Paul,

So far you have been caught lying several times, and in spite of all your efforts to prove that green farts don't stink including going back nearly 3 decades have failed miserably, and with respect to the size of the greens vs Libs, the level of dishonesty is no better.

You have also completely failed to show any charges for corruption against any liberal. If you call this a win, you can never lose.

Shadow, its not always necessary for charges to be laid. In the cases of Kermit the Frog, Fatty O'Barrel and others the disgrace of being unceremoniously booted from office is enough.

Come come my good man, Liberal fraudster, Shack 2013, Liberal thief, Mantach 2016.

The new defence for the rampant criminality in the Liberal party, "Well there are a lot of members, therefore there are a lot of potential criminals."

Those two Labor maggots, Obeid and Macdonald, should have had you as their defence council. "Well your honour, there are a lot of party members, my clients are but a small percentage."

Paul,

What is your defense for the rampant criminality in the Greens? With one convicted pedophile and a tax cheat plus a plethora of other small offenses it would appear that a criminal record is a bonus for a greens member.

Note that finger wagging by a greenie is not confirmation of guilt. Similarly none of the NSW MPs have been implicated in corruption, nor were they booted out of office, but chose to resign unlike the criminal Greens MP>

Shadow, why would you "choose to resign" if you have done nothing wrong. After lying, or pretending to have no recollection, these Liberals were exposed, and had to go.

Paul,

The real question is why greens MPs won't resign when they have done something wrong.

Shadow, I would agree, if any Green parliamentarian was a wrong do doer, then like that vipers nest of corrupt Liberals they should resign. But since the only corruption in The Greens exists in you fertile imagination, there is no need for any to resign, now is there. Unlike my goodself, you have failed to put up even one Green name who has been shown to be corrupt. We don't have any Eddies, Ian's, Nick's or Barry's in our party.

I assume your old buddy Tony Packard, the used car salesman (how appropriate), come Liberal MP, come criminal, was sorely missed by you and other Liberals. when the poor Packard, was packed off to prison. How did you feel at the time, did you shed a tear as you waved him goodbye as he made the demoralizing trip in the black mariah to his new home at Long Bay.

Paul,

I think that a greens pedophile trumps anything on the libs.

Also you have yet to show a single lib that has been indicated to be corrupt, and the acceptance of the proceeds of crimes from the CFMEU is ethically bankrupt.

Telling a porky Shadow, "the proceeds of crimes from the CFMEU" What proceeds, from what crime? Evidence please, I think you are making it up.

"I think that a greens pedophile trumps anything on the libs" This so called Green, how many children did he actually molest. should have used the Jones defence as used by Jones in England who got off on the defence of police entrapment. Did this bloke use the same defence?
The fact is when charged the bloke in question, was not a financial member of the Greens. unlike my list of all party members.

Paul,

Your ignorance knows no bounds. Try reading the news.

"CFMEU rocked by claims of corrupt dealing with crime figures in exchange for construction contracts"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-28/union-accused-of-ties-to-crime-figures,-kickbacks-for-jobs/5221234

"Latest penalty takes CFMEU fines past $10m mark"

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/crime-and-justice/cfmeu-and-cepu-fined-more-than-400000-for-unlawful-action/news-story/6fdf822907bb87d006659a5bce7ab01a

"An investigation by Fairfax Media and the ABC’s 7.30 program has identified several influential Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union officials, organisers and shop stewards in NSW and Victoria who have been given bribes and other inducements by the companies. The union figures in return use their influence to ensure the companies get the CFMEU’s backing, including specific enterprise bargaining agreements, to win contracts on parts of big private and government projects, among them Victoria’s desalination plant and Sydney’s Barangaroo development."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/bribery-dirty-deals-rife-in-building-industry-20140127-31j0a.html

"The Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union has fallen under the control of “criminal elements” who are using black bans to send a message to the sector that they are in charge and the law doesn’t apply to them"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/boral-cfmeu-criminals-using-black-bans-to-show-they-are-above-law/news-story/4b1ebf2b7098d4308aa63d77bd26892c

Also the newspapers claimed that Karel Solomon was a member of the greens at the time of his pedophilic activity. So unless you can show otherwise I will take their word over your ignorance.

Shadow, its not unknown for criminals to deposit money into banks. So if you borrow money from that bank, then it goes without question, you are borrowing money from criminals. I don't think so!

Shadow, once again you have shot yourself in the foot!

"Key Liberal fundraising body took Mafia money for access"

"Mafia figures donated tens of thousands of dollars to the discredited NSW Liberal Party fundraising vehicle, the Millennium Forum, as part of an ultimately successful campaign to allow a known criminal to stay in Australia."

Not only was The Liberal Party taking cash from the proceeds of crime. They were also actively helping their Mafia mates stay in Australia;

"NSW Liberal Party, also helped criminal Frank Madafferi's lawyer meet then immigration minister Philip Ruddock on the visa issue."

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Score Paul1405 101 Shadow zilch!

Paul,

I wholeheartedly concur with your comparison between the CFMEU and the Mafia especially given the connections between the CFMEU and organised crime and I look forward to your explanation for the greens continuing to take $ms from them in order for parliamentary protection.

Bit of an own goal there Paul, takes your score negative.

No, no, Shadow, no comparison at all is being made. The CFMEU is a legitimate worker organisation, which has a stream of perfectly legal funds from bonafide members. A small donation, I believe $50k, (small change to your Mafia types) was made to The Greens, to help in the fight for the rights of the oppressed and downtrodden, including underpaid CFMEU members (lollypop persons included).

On the other hand we have your hero's, the totally illegal Al Capone types, pouring millions of dollars, which were obtained from every illegal activity, from the numbers racket, to bootlegging into The Liberal Party slush fund. Not only that, the Mafia crime bosses were given unprecedented access to Liberal luminaries through their legal represenative. Something you fail to deny!

Shadow, have you joined the campaign 'Brian Parker for President' yet? Just in case, so you wont miss out, I'll give you your membership in advance. In numerical order, You are member number 24,972,863.

Paul,

You can't stop lying can you.

Just for a start given that this does not cover 2016 or 2017 or the donations to Getup which is a greens labor mouthpiece:

"the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union handed $125,000 to the Greens in 2015"

"The CFMEU ACT Branch gave the ACT Greens a single donation of $50,000 for federal election campaigning.

"Total union donations to the Greens reached almost $600,000 in 2013-14"

And considering the $10m in fines and mobster links that the CFMEU has, while the CFMEU has a legal status (much like most of the Mafia businesses) most of its income is not from dues but from money extorted from business.

You second thumping great lie is "On the other hand we have your hero's, the totally illegal Al Capone types, pouring millions of dollars, which were obtained from every illegal activity, from the numbers racket, to bootlegging into The Liberal Party slush fund."

You are an outrageous liar, and I challenge you to substantiate these $ms.

Good one Shadow.

"A Liberal insider conspired to funnel donations from an alleged Mafia boss and his three relatives into party coffers after a lobster dinner involving the men and Victorian Opposition Leader Matthew Guy, secret phone records have revealed."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-09/liberal-insiders-plot-to-deliver-donations-to-matthew-guy/8787118

Shadow does a photo of Al Capone hold pride of place next to 'Pig iron' Bob's, at your house? If not, why not, it should.

Paul,

Given the CFMEU's mob connections, a portrait of Al Capone should be hanging with the portrait of Brown eye Bob.

I see that the Greens shadow portfolio manager for finance SHY has been continually in trouble for being incapable of managing her own accounts and trying to rip off the taxpayer.