Scout: I didn't say you did mention me with regard to the lowest common denominator (you were certainly point scoring and using invective, though not directly at me, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have a problem with the hypocrisy of you complaining about it when you started it!), but it doesn't mean you're not full of it and that I shouldn't bring it to the attention of others in other threads. I'm not misrepresenting you as an elitist bigot or a hypocrite, since you fit the definitions perfectly. In this thread, you're talking about everyone being all tolerant of others, and yet elsewhere you talk of the lowest common denominator (and don't try to argue semantics: you can't claim such a commercial channel is lowest common denominator without claiming those who watch it are also) and claim that your personal tastes in entertainment are somehow for the common good, whilst not recognising the absurdity of trying to claim the subjective as the objective.

I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me, and I could quite possibly be wrong on the whole matter. What I have a problem with is that you're trying to play the good guy and claim you know what's good for people and that you care about them whilst simultaneously looking down your nose at their "pap" and them for being "boringly mainstream" or of "the lowest common denominator". If you want to be elitist or bigoted, that's fine -- there are some people here at OLO whose opinions I really dislike, but at least they're consistent, and at least they're up front about it. I don't have a problem with that in a way -- I'm inclined to a little misanthropy myself (though I also don't claim to be for humanity). It's the denial and the hypocrisy on your part, and then you trying to lecture (me) on morality that get to me. If your starting position is one of intolerance, how can you then claim to be for tolerance?

I read the first thought to raise this discussion for the topic "Is Australia in for its own war?" and thought this should get a few different voices and opinions...
I scrolled and scrolled, drank 2 cups of coffee and finally came to the end and found the topic lost. My personal belief to the original question is while we as human beings from too many cultures and with too many jealousies, resentments, ill conceived righteousness and with the basic flaws of wo/man kind. War will come. It already has. The new age of war is sly, sneaking up on us and ever so slowly making a mark on us one by one to learn to hate as a whole, distrust as a whole and never think of sharing a very small world with an ever increasing population of nearly 7 billion. Do I want to fight for this war? I am irish stock and my family escaped from being imprisoned as IRA terroists and my beliefs are no. Strange that all of our Gods and Men and women who we have respect for in our history didnt create hate..Children dont want to fight want peace and want to end the sadness of the world, we were those children once.

Shorbe

All I am doing is putting forth my OPINION - whether it is right or wrong is entirely moot. You are reading far more into it than was ever intended - you have chosen to take it personally. Now I am not interested in pursuing this line of argument with you. So, please desist.

If you have something to offer on the possibility of Australia erupting in conflict, please go ahead. I have made the point I wanted to make on this topic - now it is over to you.

Australia is a bit more than'grog',otherwise why should so many fight to come here. This is a put down by those who try to make out they are our superiors because they are forbidden to drink alcohol and quite frankly watching their frenzied demonstrations at times, one can see the wisdom in that taboo. It is obvious that some do not have the intelligence or what ever it takes to handle alcohol.
Many young Australians go just as brainless when affected, but if they survive they usually grow out of it. It seems to be used as a rite of passage now unfortunately as all they emphasise is their immaturity.
There is far more to being Australian , look to the volunteers, look to the fire brigades and all those who give their help to society without payment.
If you find a worthier country to call home,do not let us hold you back. We will get along without you very well.

alpha: I think that's a bit simplistic. The god of the Old Testament is/was a violent, hate-filled god. Likewise with that of the Koran. Most religions have that in them, whether they're monotheistic or polytheistic. Whether this is because men were created in God's image, or God was created in man's image, it doesn't matter.

Plenty of people respected from history were also full of hate.

Likewise, children do hate. Children do discriminate and bully and do all sorts of other nasty things. They're not as innocent as made out.

If hate doesn't come from a divine source, nor does it come with human genetics (and the desire to survive and beat enemies/opponents), then where does it come from?

Personally, I don't think there's anything new about the human condition, including hate and conflict. They've always been around and probably always will.

Scout: So, if someone put forth a racist opinion, you wouldn't call him or her on it, or at least think less of him or her if he or she went on to preach tolerance elsewhere? You've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar and now you're having a whinge.

Dear David Boaz,

I am glad that you do not wish to kick me out of Australia, because in my own citizenship-ceremony the mayor offered me a drink (and I refused... kinda part of my private religion).

Obviously some cultures have bad habits that we do not want here (such as honking the car horn to tell people inside that you are waiting for them): I am not talking about that, only about habits that are not harmful, just different.

I need further clarifications:

1. When you wrote, "and if they have religious prohibitions about the way we do things...", is the condition that those be religious prohibitions a substantial one, as opposed to other personal convictions and habits that makes one unwilling to do things in the same way as Aussies do?

2. Should an Australian who no longer wishes to embrace the Australian culture also find a different place to live?

3. Which authority is to decide which parts of the Australian culture are substantial and indispensable and which parts (such as drinking alcohol) can be avoided?

4. Why? what's actually wrong with people doing things in different ways?

---

BTW, safety helmets are not a normal requirement in education or work: you simply don't need to ride a bike (unless you are a postman). I was about to buy a bicycle just before this law was enacted in 1990 (because I cared about the environment and my fitness), but when this law appeared I gave up that idea and continue using my car to this day, sitting and polluting the air, because I consider it immoral and degrading to interfere with personal choice and tell other people what to wear or not to wear (and I have no beard or turban). Instead, the government could simply say: "if you fall off your bike and have no helmet, Medicare will not pay your hospital fees", then I could choose to take a special private insurance against falling off a bike without a helmet. This is actually a case where cultural/religious differences expose the pre-existing unfairness of certain laws.