I am fully supportive of a Senate containing representatives from minor parties or independents. I feel they are capable of adding perspectives which would otherwise not surface in a strictly two party system.

For instance I have a lot of time for Senator Lamby even though I don't share most of her politics, but this week Pauline Hanson just left me bloody speechless.

http://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/watch-no-senator-australian-pauline-hanson-humbled-navy-admiral-during-hearing

Pump-jet powered submarines only able to stay underwater for 20 minutes?

It was an excruciating display of mind-numbing ignorance delivered with sneering derision that was just awful.

We surely deserve better.

Come off it Steely.

A very large number of our politicians believe CO2 will cause Catastrophic Global Warming, "an excruciating display of mind-numbing ignorance" far in excess of anything Pauline has professed.

Dear Hassie,

Actually that's not true. Pauline's record is one of
being - ill-informed, simplistic and facile.
She ignores the true complexities of any issue.
It would be impolite to call her an utter idiot - but
she's more dangerous than that. She's been elected to
our country's Senate and as Steele points out - we need
to do better than that.

For example just listing some of her actions :

1) Her admiration of Vladimir Putin (SMH Feb.10 2017)
remained undiminished with her shrugging off criticism of
Russia's alleged role in the death of 38 Australians on
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 by commenting that -
"Everyone has done something."
She doubled down on her praise of the Russian President
earlier that week. Senator Hanson also drew a moral
equivalence between the actions of Australian leaders and
those of Mr Putin, whose administration has been linked to
the deaths of journalists and political opponents.

2) Her comments on students with disabilities and children
with autism showed her ignorance on the subject.

3) Then we have her critique of judging a book by its
cover. Australian comedian Sami Shah wrote a book
titled - "The Islamic Republic of Australia," which was
an informative work and not what the title may suggest.
However, off she went on her usual tirades.

I totally agree with Steele. Her latest venture into
submarines proves that we certainly should be able to do
better with who we elect into office.

Or we may end up with another Trump. Oh wait - there's always
Mr Abbott baying in the background. (cringe). Would that
be worse?

Dear Foxy,

Through the years I have been at pains to cut her some slack, even around my friends, primarily because she represents the discontent of a section of Australia whose voices should be heard.

I was always uncomfortable with the derision her “Please explain” question engendered. Even if she wasn't across the meaning of the word xenophobic then it was no reason to hang her out to dry.

But this is orders of magnitude worse for two reasons; common bloody sense would tell even the most belligerent that the navy was not going to be using submarines capable of only staying below water for 20 minutes full stop. But even if she had believed that, rather than ask a question she stated this assertion as fact.

It made her look both clueless and cretinous.

Dear Hasbeen,

As much as your anti GW stance is a political rather than a scientific one, born from you employing an almost cultish degree willful ignorance, I do feel you and your ilk should have a voice as much as your positions infuriates me. Even you lot deserve to have your views articulated by an even moderately capable representative. Hanson has repeated shown to struggle to make the mark but this latest episode has me firmly convinced she is incapable of ever meeting it.

It must be really irksome to have her exhibit such stupidity. Even you deserve better.

Dear Steele,

I agree. I've always been taught to not judge people
too harshly no matter how dubiously you think they
behave until you know all the facts. However with
Senator Hanson - her behaviour and comments are
stretching the limits to the extreme. It's becoming
more and more difficult to not see her for what she is.

cont'd ...

Dear Steele,

I forgot to add that Senator Hanson has secured a
six year Senate term (as has Jacqui Lambie). While
Senator Derryn Hinch has secured a three year Senate
term.

Six years of Pauline Hanson.

Oh joy!

You would think regressives who have stuffed this country with uncontrolled spending, allowing terrorist here under the guise of refugees, ruining our energy supply and lumping us with the nbn would crawl in a hole and hide. Instead they pick a few little faults with a woman who irritates them while ignoring the country wreckers. Drain the swamp you voted for before picking on Pauline I say.

SteeleRedux "struck speechless"? Wouldn't that be nice if it were true!

Foxy For the amount of time she has been in the public eye so to speak you could only come up with three things.

The amount of bias within the MSM who virtually follow her around in the hope she says something that they will be able to misinterpret or lie about, you can do better or can't you.

As runner says the others have by a long short caused damage than Hanson where is your indignation toward them.

NDIS, NBN, Submarines, F35's Navy landing ships, over 50,000 welfare for lifers, Time does not permit more but I am sure others could add to the list.

One more important fact from so called stupid ideas and mistakes very useful and innovative inventions have come,correct me if anyone thinks that statement is in any way wrong.

Pauline Hanson, fish and chip lady, inarticulate and all the rest of it, has the Left crapping themselves. The more they sneer and whine about her, the tougher she gets. The sanctimonious, totalitarian Left is Hanson's best electoral asset. They probably should be getting an allowance from One Nation for boosting her.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-19/new-subs-fleets-promised-stealth-technology-questioned/9058858

"Questions surround Australia's new submarine fleet's ultra-stealth propulsion technology
By political reporter Tom Iggulden
Updated 19 Oct 2017, 7:21pm


The Navy's new stealth submarines might not be so stealthy after all.

Key points:

"Ultra-quiet pump-jet propulsion technology was a key selling point in the subs' design

It was supposed to help make the subs "the world's most advanced conventionally powered submarine"

Executive director of Naval Group now says propeller technology might be used on the submarines

A top executive at the company building the subs has thrown doubt on whether cutting-edge pump-jet propulsion technology will be used as planned.

The ultra-quiet technology was a key selling point for the French design that won the Government's competitive evaluation process to build the new submarines at a cost of $50 billion..."

Corrected from above.

As runner says the others have by a long shot caused more damage than Hanson where is your indignation toward them.

leoj - I personally do not think the clowns know what they want or for that matter what they are going to get, it appears they keep changing there mind.

It appear there is only ONE dead certain fact, we have wasted $50 Billion dollars.

Oh how easy is it to spend big when it is not coming out of your own pocket.

$50 billion to boost Leftist and chief ally of Leftist Malcolm Turnbull, Christopher Pyne, at the coming election that Turnbull seems determine to lose. Strange people, small l liberals infesting the Coalition. More news to come on Pansy Pyne.

Dear Philip S.,

I only listed a couple of things about
Pauline Hanson due to the word limit.
Plus I did not feel it necessary to go over the top in
my examples - which I felt were unnecessary as most
thinking people can see her for what she is.
Not all of us have a deep-seated cultural insecurity -
"The Fortress Australia" mentality of an insular island
nation.

This thread is very poorly targeted. Here is the problem,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-19/new-subs-fleets-promised-stealth-technology-questioned/9058858

Only very short-sighted without the capacity to think for themselves would be in there missing the forest for a small tree and (to mix metaphors) throwing mud at some Senator who, like ALL Parliamentarians and the public, is trying to come to some understanding of the submarines purchases, but is being patronised and bluffed by the military.

Anyone who has ever dealt with the public bureaucracy, but especially DoD and its military is well aware of the extreme difficulty in getting a look into 'their' territory. That is even where external consultants are contracted by them to help them. Defence are command and control bureaucrats par excellence and experts at 'militarysplaining'(sic) and avoiding the issue, then the hatch slams shut again.

The issue isn't Hanson, it is submarines.

I think that our defence chiefs are far more dangerous than any external enemy Australia might face. We only kept the Japanese out of Australia because the also then - unprepared and inept High Command were all killed in a plane crash at the beginning of WW2.

The only hope of maintaining control of the military is through the Parliamentary scrutiny and control of budgets.

There are so many very important issues apart from submarines that are before the federal Parliament. But for decades the precious sitting time available has been siphoned off on diversions like same sex marriage.

Ex-Labor leader Latham was expressing the exasperation of the public as well as the opinion of the forgotten large rump of traditional Labor members, when he made a plea for commonsense,

"Former Labor leader Mark Latham slams Labor over gay marriage

FORMER Labor leader Mark Latham has slammed his party’s “obsession” with gay marriage saying it should focus on the nation’s “Struggle Streets” instead.
He told 3AW radio Bill Shorten’s private members bill to push for changes to the marriage act to allow same-sex couples to tie the knot, to be introduced into parliament on Monday, was nothing more than a symbolic gesture.

He said the biggest social issue facing Austalia was unemployment, drug use and homelessness in suburbs such as Mt Druitt which was the focus of the SBS documentary, Struggle Street.

“If you are interested in equality and social justice in Australia then what was the really big event in the month of May,” he said. “We had the Struggle Street documentary which revealed that in the nation’s public housing estate, most notably in Mt Druitt people live in conditions that you wouldn’t wish upon your dogs. Absolute chaos, despair and hopelessness in their lives.
“And surely, you would have expected a serious national response from the party of social justice?
“We didn’t hear anything.
“They’re obsessed, instead, by gay marriage.”

Mr Latham said legalising same-sex marriage would not “improve” anyone’s standard of living, nor would it improve their capacity to “function in society”.
“It’s a legal document,” he said. “It’s a piece of symbolism. It might make some people feel better to have a marriage document but it really is a low order priority.
“On the Richter scale of social justice Struggle Street is a 10, gay marriage is a point one..."

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-marriage/former-labor-leader-mark-latham-slams-labor-over-gay-marriage/news-story/6c89f7077536bf321ee40c25946e6f0f

leoj - SSM is being used as a diversion from the real issues that people would otherwise be concerned about.

Since this hit MSM I have not seen anything about Apex gang crimes, homeless people, very little on drugs, or other issues Latham is right.

Speaking of Mark Latham, are you aware that he has a weekly program, up until last week available free on YouTube, but now only via subscription, on which he continues to break all the PC rules? Go to marklathamsoffsiders.com for a look. Latham is also being sued in the Federal Court by a white-Australian-hating Muslim because he (Latham) remarked on the Muslim's hate speech against Australians. Left wing law firm, Maurice Blackburn acting for the Muslim.

Thanks to Steelreduxe for providing the opportunity to advertise someone he undoubtedly hates.

Anyone who has any understanding of pump engineering and hydropower knows that water forced through a nozzle makes a noise.

Our old "Oberon" class subs were very quiet, but we got rid of them.

Here's a bit of a read on the subs that we had:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/cold-war-exploits-of-australias-secret-submarines/news-story/2b5a9a088125b1873777ec8cc60cd79b

It should not be surprising to see the navy stuff up it's purchasing of ships & weapons.

Perhaps few would know that the most senior navy engineer has the rank of only captain. No admirals, not even a commodore with engineering training. You can imagine how much voice they have in a comity of naval top brass, all seaman trained. This is ridiculous in a world where we stopped using sails a while back, & ship propulsion & weapons systems are rapidly becoming more high tech by the day.

Hell some of the admirals are probably so lacking in science knowledge that they do believe the global warming scam.

I am still wondering about Steely. He is probably stupid enough to believe the scam, but is just possibly simply grabbing on to the scam shirt tales to promote UN dominated one world government. He may not be just stupid, but malevolent.

ttbn - Speaking about Maurice Blackburn.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/26/peter-dutton-to-face-new-class-action-alleging-unlawful-detention

Peter Dutton to face new class action alleging unlawful detention

Lead plaintiff is a four-year-old boy who was born to asylum seeker parents in Darwin and spent 480 days in detention

It’s expected thousands could join the case, lodged on Thursday in the federal court, seeking damages for unlawful detention resulting from a failure of the department to act on complaints cases.

The four-year-old boy, who is the lead plaintiff in the case by the Maurice Blackburn law firm, was born to his asylum seeker parents at Royal Darwin hospital in September 2013, and spent 480 days in detention.

His lawyers said when the department eventually “put their mind” to the case, it took just two days to approve and issue a bridging visa, in January 2015, demonstrating the alleged unnecessary and unlawful lengthy detention.

“For the bulk of the time he was in detention, our claim is there was no proper purpose for him to be in detention,” said lawyer Jennifer Kanis.

The statement of claim cited a October 2014 letter from the department to Maurice Blackburn stating it was “currently not reasonably practicable” to take the family to a regional processing centre on Nauru or Manus.

“He and his family were never going to be removed to Nauru because the policy was that children would not be removed to Nauru,” said Kanis. “The family was effectively detained for no purpose.”

The refugees over 50,000 should be thanking Dudd and Dillard for the windfall payouts.

What is it about Hanson and the water?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=moJ7j86MyWw

Well here's a link I've just come across regarding
Australia's $50 billion submarine investment:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/design/australias-12-new-shortfin-barracuda-submarines-described-as-most-lethal-weapon-the-nation-has/news-story/a1f423bd9b30aef5259da42ba87cf503

Mr Pyne said at a visit to the highly secure base of French company DCNS in Cherbourg.

Quote - “We are a wealthy country" Billions of dollars in debt and he says that. He is delusional.

This next one implies it is more about appeasing the Americans.
"according to Defence Industry Minister Christopher Pyne who said the addition of 12 Shortfin Barracuda submarines to Australia’s arsenal will reassure President-elect Donald Trump the country is not shirking its military duties by being “strategic bludgers”."

So a $50 Billion dollar brown nose, just what the economy needs.

Dear Phillip S,

My post was purely about Hanson's stupidity. It was there, displayed in all its magnificent glory for all to see, unless of course one was determined not to. Whatever diversionary tactic you want to employ to deflect from her pompous ignorance can not take away the fact that the woman may well have rat cunning but displays nary a drop of basic intelligence.

Which would be find if she was running the local chook raffle but she isn't is she. Instead the Coalition crawl toward her genuflecting in order to curry favour whilst being forced to progress some inane attack on Aunty. When they cough up she rewards them by not running a One Nation candidate against Barnaby Joyce, though I suspect that particular favour is yet to be fully repaid.

What an utter bloody embarrassment that women is.

Dear Hasbeen,

Here you are an ex-navy man and yet you seem overjoyed a civilian can blunder about with pig-ignorant claims about military capabilities and all you seem to want to do is defend her, then slander the officer who had to sit through being lectured by this fool.

How on earth does your mind work? Is your ideology that toxic that you are incapable of sticking up for service? My father was a navy man and I'm bloody sure he would have had more than a few choice words for her antics.

Our only saving grace is that puffed up little court jester Roberts has been given his marching orders, yet even in bidding him farewell our Pauline couldn't even get his name right.

Time to cut her loose mate.

Dear Philip S.,

So you think Australia's spending $50 billion over
30 years on 12 new subs to upgrade our ageing fleet
is not a good idea?

Well, the move has been described as critical to
make the country "regionally superior" in terms of
its maritime ability and signal President Trump that
Australia is no "strategic bludger" when it comes to
its defence commitments.

It may interest you to know that the Australian Defence
Force argues that subs are critical for a country like
Australia with such a vast coastline and strategic interests
in preserving the "rules based International Order" in the
region.

99% of Australia's exports are by sea and maintaining clear
passage is an economic necessity for the country.

BTW: -

Dear Philip S.,

According to a list compiled by "Global Firepower"
Australia ranks 17th when it comes to a list of subs by
country.

We're told that the United States is no 1 with 75,
North Korea - 70, China has approx. 68, Russia - 60,
and Iran 33. Japan - 17, while South Korea - 15,
India 14, Turkey 13, and 11 each for Greece and
Columbia, while 10 each for France and the UK.

At present Australia has 6 of the "Collins Class"
subs. The new additions will come over 30 years.

Dear Steele,

The following link explains why the government made
the choices it did regarding the subs. Interesting
read:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/shortfin-barracuda-deal-best-submarine-at-the-best-price-but-a-local-build-is-also-best-politics-20160426-gof1km.html

cont'd ...

Dear Steele,

You realise that we could be dreadfully wrong.
Pauline Hanson may not be stupid at all,
she just may have bad luck when thinking. (smile).

SteeleRedux - You jumped on the wrong one If you look at the post directly before mine it was from Foxy giving a link to the submarine contract that is what my comment is about.

It has absolutely nothing to do with anything you have said.

Foxy
Lets see what the future holds with them.

Years ago Oh how wonderful the purchase of the F35's will be. NOW LEMON's

I find you at least as pig ignorant as our Pauline Steely, but your arrogance makes it just so much more painful.

If ever you manage to find out which way is up, let us know, & perhaps we will try to struggle through more of your vicious posts.

No one can hate a woman like another woman: viz, Foxy.

ttbn,

Wrong again.

I don't hate anyone, not even you - hard as
you try to make that happen.
Normal people can't hate people they don't know.

What a person can do is criticise the behaviour
of others though - especially if they behave badly.
And in Pauline's case - are Senators in our Parliament.

BTW - in your case -
Why is it acceptable for you to behave badly but not
for me to point it out?
See what I mean?

Yep, she did herself a disservice and made herself look silly alright.

Dear AC,

Thank You.

Hey you two,
My friend and next-door neighbour where I live passed away this evening so I'm a little humbled right now, not all that keen on seeing you pair arguing.
Life's too short, that's how I feel right now.
- Poor bloke was fine just a few months ago.

ttbn,
When I'm not just saying my 2 cents, I like to often add to the discussion in a way that others don't, look at the pro's and con's and put a different perspective on the topic, but of course I get put in the 'conspiracy theorist' type category, (which I don't mind) but I tend to defend the points I make if challenged, because what I'm really defending is that I had a valid basis to make the point I did.
"You are probably less cynical than I am. Not a bad thing."
I dunno, maybe. Only because I believe the right ideas and policies could change things around, but maybe I'm delusional to think things will ever change. I certainly do acknowledge a lot of the bad things going around that others dismiss.

Hey Foxy
"But how boring would it be if we all agreed - and the forum became simply an echo chamber of our own views."
Exactly. I do appreciate others opinions, even the ones I disagree with because it broadens my knowledge; I still learn something.
- But if I think someones talking rubbish I'll say so, and more often than not I'll explain why.

- Whoops - above post - wrong thread -
I meant to put it on the 'Back to the Future' thread.

One might be forgiven for thinking that SteeleRedux was being just a tad biased by picking on Hanson for her hiccup.

But to be fair SteeleRedux is consistent in this regard.

We all know that SteeleRedux has always considered the Obamessiah to be mind-numbingly ignorant for his 57 state idiocy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

And SR has been down on Shorten ever since his "excruciating display" about believing whatever she believes ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFELLK8htKM

Pollies have every utterance recorded and scrutinised for error, every day. In the end something's gunna be unearthed because, appearances to the contrary, they are human.

Only the petty partisan picks out these minor errors to make a general assertion.

Petty partisans and/or hypocrites.

Perhaps Steelredux is one of the girls, tool. Very catty.

Dear Foxy,

'Capacity over strategic' seems to be exactly the path we should be taking so good on the Navy chiefs for sticking to what was best for our own serving personnel.

Dear Phillip S,

I was speaking to this remark of yours; “As runner says the others have by a long short caused damage than Hanson where is your indignation toward them.”

Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote;

“If ever you manage to find out which way is up, let us know, & perhaps we will try to struggle through more of your vicious posts.”

Lol. Sorry mate but as far as constant bleating viciousness goes I am not even close to your pay grade. I do try on occasion to return like for like but you are the master. What is sad is that it is basically all you have going. You don't do any research, it is always your way or the highway and badgering or belittling is about the sum of your reason for being here. There's more to life.

Dear mhaze,

Banging on about vaccines causing autism, or claiming men are the 'real victims' of domestic violence, doesn't count?

Even if we leave her patent stupidity aside she is so obviously in this to shore up her and her party's fortunes rather than do her job as a Senator.

She completely missed every Senate Estimates hearing in October last year, every single one in February this year and when this story was published in May she still hadn't made even one;

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/please-explain-pauline-hanson-misses-senate-estimates-for-a-third-time-20170523-gwb9wl.html

In the same time Nick Xenophon had attended over 45 and Darren Hinch over 30.

We taxpayers front up for this person's wages and in the few instances when she turns up to do her job she is so obviously unprepared it is infuriating.

She's lost the right to speak for those Australians who have concerns, however legitimate or otherwise, for things like government over-reach and immigration levels. Perhaps Cory might be a better bet for you lot rather than this fatuous red head who loves to skive off.

I meant 'too', not 'tool', which would be totally inappropriate in the context of the post.

Dear Armchair Critic,

I have no control over the behaviour of others on
this forum only of my own. I usually do try to
avoid confrontations but sometimes a reply becomes
necessary especially when you're being called a
"Left-wing ideologue who cannot think before she
sprays" and much more.

I am so sorry to hear about your neighbour's death.
Sudden death makes us realise just how fragile life is.
One of my closest friends went shopping for groceries
(as usual) one Saturday and when she came home she
started to unpack them when she fainted in her kitchen.
She was rushed to hospital. They found she had bleeding
on the brain. They tried desperately to stop the
bleeding but they failed and she died that week-end at
the age of 52.

Even today I still find it hard to believe she's gone.

Foxy,

"At present Australia has 6 of the "Collins Class"
subs. The new additions will come over 30 years".

and the new subs will be outdated before we get the first one; already there is talk of building them with propellers instead of water jets.
After we get the first one the modifications start in earnest.

Got it, SR,

If someone you don't like or don't support says something incorrect or something you don't like, that's proof that they've " lost the right to speak for those [concerned] Australians."

And if someone you do like or do support says something ridiculous or stupid, then that should be ignored because....reasons.

Dear mhaze,

As usual my friend you don't 'got' anything.

This isn't about her saying something I don't like, Lamby and Bernardi do it all the time but I have said I support a diverse set of views in our Senate. This isn't that much about her being incorrect either because Lamby is prone to gaffs as well.

And I am defending the right of those people in Australia who are worried about government policy to have those views articulated.

The Senate sits only 15 weeks of the year. Much of the remaining time at PH is committee work. Hanson has shown little appetite for what we are paying her to do. Senates estimates are a forum for directly challenging the government and its agencies but you have to be prepared to attend and have your head across the issue, hanson obviously doesn't. The fact the Lamby not only manages to do this work as an independent without the extra resources that a party like One Nation enjoys, but is reasonably targeted and effective.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-10/jacqui-lambie-accused-of-verbally-abusing-defence-chiefs/7156538

Not saying she doesn't have her moments;
http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/defence-chiefs-slam-senator-jacqui-lambies-suggestion-that-australia-form-an-alliance-with-russia-in-fight-against-islamic-state/news-story/9aea4f27ebe94021024f116eed4ce9fb

Now I grant you that part of Hanson's seeming display of idiocy may well be down to the fact she has not done the preparation required. But it then begs the question why on earth are you defending a politician who doesn't front up to do the work we pay them for? You would normally be all over this. Why the reticence now?

mhaze,

Put it up him, mate, even though he's not worth wasting too much time on. Steelredux is from the same mould as a couple of other Left loons, whom I wont mention for fear of a huge dummy spit from them. Know-all, know-nothing types, completely ignorant of anything outside their own dunghill.

Yeah SR I guess you don't get it.

Was this an error from her? Probably.

But given that the discussion was around spending $50b on questionable hardware in order to save 1804 jobs, it was an error so minute as to be of zero consequence. But those who consider her to be both a threat and their intellectual inferior beat it up into an issue so as to puff up their own sense of superiority.

If we were truly concerned about who ought to have "lost the right to speak for those [concerned] Australians" perhaps we ought to be looking at those who gave us this monumental waste of funds. Or those who gave us the $80b NBN white elephant. Or those who managed to destroy our energy comparative advantage.

But no. Let's concentrate on some inconsequential throw-away remark to enhance our partisan prejudices.

Hanson isn't the smartest cookie but she does speak for many who aren't blinded by the need to puff up their own self-esteem. It was said of Trump that his opponents took him literally but not seriously while his supporters took him seriously but not literally.

Her supporters don't care that she makes these minor errors. But when she talks about immigration or lost culture, then they cheer.

And her oh-so-much-smarter opponents sneer at her (and her constituency's) lack of nuance and seek to shut her down.

Dear mhaze,

Yup, you will absolutely blind yourself not only to her stupidity, but also to the fact that she is a slacker, sucking off the public teat for all she is worth, only turning up when it suits her. All the while you are cheering her on like she is a people's champion because she has managed to speak to your prejudices.

Anybody else and you would have been rightly calling them a parasite.

Your adulation of Trump is very much in the same vein isn't it. What an absolute train wreak this bloke has become yet because he engages in a bit of good old fashioned migrant bashing you think the sun shines out of his proverbial.

You do realise such sycophantic behaviour is cultish, sheeplike, and juvenile. You only care for your narrow self interests much as we would expect from a child. As long as there is milk, rightwing propaganda in this case, coming out the teat you are happy for the rest of the world to go jump. Of course Pauline/mummy has to be the best mummy in the whole damn world doesn't she. Why? Because she is your mummy isn't she, and no one is allowed to say a word against her else you are going to get really, really cross.

To use a Trumpism it's sad, really sad. Time to grow up my friend.

Well SR, when all else fails, throw a tantrum eh?

As usual, in your black/white world, since I don't support your attacks in Hanson I must be a supporter of her.

Alas, not true. Never voted One Nation. Primarily I find their economic policies unacceptable.

But I do feel she and her supporters are given a hard time by those who see themselves as their intellectual superiors and I do fret that the fascists of the left (but I repeat myself) seek to shut her down. That she, in the face of this unrelenting ridicule and misrepresentation, continues to garner (increasing?) support is testament to how she does speak for a large number of forgotten groups and is testament to the good graces and common sense of the plebs to see past the media hype.

I suspect none of that will make sense to you.

When One Nation is responsible for moronic policies such as the NBN or the RET, then we can start talking about how unfit for government they are.

As to Trump, things are going along very nicely although you'd need to read past the headlines to know that. Nonetheless, its still possible that the deep state will get their man and overturn the election.

I know nothing about subs., pump-jet or otherwise. If Australia must have a fleet of subs, only nuclear should be considered, anything else is redundant even before they're off the drawing board. But no matter, we are no longer the 'lucky' country, we're the 'silly' country, by spending 'squllions' on already out of date submarines even before they're built? Gee that's clever eh?

Apropos Ms HANSON and her 'Admiral' counterpart - what make him the authority on Subs, any more so than Ms Hansen. Sure she's a little bereft in some areas of Naval warfare, but she does know plenty about sailors, scram... 'fish 'n chips'. Can this Admiral claim the same? Just how many sea-going Submarines does the gentleman command, and how many can he put to sea, in order to negate a potential attack?

The problem is nuke subs have lots more power on demandie
But diesel may not be avaiable.

o sung wu,

I've had a lot to do with submarines (even been down in one!) and nuclear subs are noisy because, mainly, the nuclear reactor boils the water in the boilers for the noisy steam turbines.
The steam rushing through the pipework is a prime source of underwater noise.

"The stealth technology weakness of nuclear submarines is the need to cool the reactor even when the submarine is not moving; about 70% of the reactor output heat is dissipated into the sea water. This leaves a "thermal wake", a plume of warm water of lower density which ascends to the sea surface and creates a "thermal scar" that is observable by thermal imaging systems, e.g., FLIR.[16] Another problem is that the reactor is always running, creating steam noise, which can be heard on SONAR, and the reactor pump (used to circulate reactor coolant), also creates noise, as opposed to a conventional submarine, which can move about on almost silent electric motors."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_submarine#Technology

Dear mhaze,

Tantrum? Hardly. I was just mirroring the tone of your previous post and the general wailings of the right.

And by the way I'm not buying a scrap of that rubbish I'm afraid.

The way that your lot went after Julia Gillard means your words are hollow at best and blatantly hypocritical.

So please tell me why the notion of a submarine only being able to stay underwater for 20 minutes should not invite derision and further why pointing out her seriously flawed attendance record at her work site is inappropriate?

My position here is only that those Australians she says she represents deserve better.

Dear o sung wu,

Very droll my friend but indeed, how dare this trumped up sailor question Ms Hanson's expertise in these matters. Down right rude in my book!

Dear Bazz,

I know you would like us to have bigger, shinier toys but here is the question. Would you like nuclear powered submarines even given the entirely likelihood it would drive Indonesia down its own nuclear armament route?

o sung wu,
Must agree with you in respect of subs. Nuclear with Nuclear warheads is the only way to go,
even if we have to buy them second hand of the US France or GB.
A couple of Nuclear carriers and we have a complete protection, defense and attack capability.
I and my cronies will all be voting for Pauline up here in North Queensland.
She will probably hold the balance of power and may even be Premier with that balance.

Steel the real auestion are diesal subs possible in aus?

SR,

"The way that your lot went after Julia Gillard means your words are hollow at best and blatantly hypocritical."

Well since I don't have a "lot" your assertion is baseless. I did criticise Gillard but for her abysmal policies not her minor errors.

Not for me ridiculing her for thinking the Afghan rebels were the Tali Band, or that exaggeration was hyperbowl. It would be cruel and petty to make fun of such ignorance. But if someone else (eg Pauline) made such errors then those of a certain ilk (no names mind you but their initials are SteeleRedux !) would be ridiculing ad nauseam and declaring her unfit for office. But since someone of the left made these petty errors, they get the Winston Smith treatment.

Dear Bazz,

No the question raised is whether Hanson has the intelligence needed to ask the questions that will give this project adequate scrutiny. My contention is not only that she doesn't but that her stupidity makes it more difficult to do so as it has made a mockery of the process.

Dear mhaze,

So you don't have a 'lot' but it seems you were at pains to paint me as someone who does?

“And her oh-so-much-smarter opponents sneer at her (and her constituency's) lack of nuance and seek to shut her down.”

What I did in my post was link 'your' lot's particular mindset directly to you after you attempted the same to me through implication.

This was despite the fact I had stated I felt her supporters deserved to be heard but that they deserved better representation, primarily from someone who wasn't clueless, either by accident or design, and who was prepared to put the work in to advance their concerns.

You wrote; “It would be cruel and petty to make fun of such ignorance.”

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. I made the point earlier;

“I was always uncomfortable with the derision her “Please explain” question engendered. Even if she wasn't across the meaning of the word xenophobic then it was no reason to hang her out to dry.”

The difference now is that she has the backing of parliamentary resources which include researchers and other support staff. There is no excusing the ignorance now and if she hadn't properly availed herself of those resources then it confirms her stupidity since they do not come without cost. To have her ask ignorant and idiotic questions is just a waste of both those resources and committee time.

By trying to deflect any criticism of her with charges of elitism aren't you just enabling substandard representation for those that support lower immigration rates and other linked policies?

G'day there CHRISGAFF1000...

Good to hear from you mate! I know squat about Maritime Warfare, but Nuclear seems the way to go, to me at least? Still a number of contributors herein have corrected me by saying they're too noisy, whereas the quieter diesel vessels are more appropriate for Aussies needs? And Chris, who am I to argue with them, because I just don't know?

I'm with you on Pauline HANSEN. Sure she's no Rhodes Scholar, merely an ordinary small business owner, many might even aver she's the 'salt of the earth' sort of person, who (tries) really hard to articulate her point. And in a Place filled with; quivering, corrupt, mendacious bully boys, many of whom are former lousy lawyers, and other miserable sycophants. A few I'd like to 'P..ch' in the face, such is the intensity of my anger with them!

Thanks IS MISE...

I've just finished answering another person herein, also telling him I really know nothing about Submarines. That said, we went aboard a WWll Sub. permanently berthed near Fisherman's Wharf, in San Fransisco. And my first impression was how a bunch of human beings can possibly live in such cramped, difficult conditions while being Depth Charged, I'm buggered if I know.

Our guide urged us to remain quite and off he went. A minute or so later we heard this 'tap, tap, tap', sound. We, our small group, were located where the Torpedoes are launched, and when our guide returned, he told us he had gone all the way to the back (aft?) of the Sub and tapped his plastic biro against something metallic near the hull. The aim of this little demo was to show how far even a faint sound can travel inside a Submarine, even more so when submerged? Quite a learning experience I can tell you IS MISE.

o sung wu,

Noise is something that the movies get right about submarines.

You should hear tapes of US nuclear submarines in close proximity to one of our old subs (of over thirty years ago), the Yanks had no idea that our sub was anywhere near them.
On one famous occasion, one of our subs carried out a mock attack on the USS "Enterprise", got right through the destroyer and sub screen and surfaced after passing under her; signaled " You're sunk" and the "Enterprise" blossomed with white uniformed figures, staring in amazement at the Aussie sub.

I got the above from a number of the subs crew.

"(Commander) Pitt began a video that grabbed Hawke's attention and immediately transformed his mood. The PM appeared transfixed as he watched dramatic and brilliantly clear footage taken by HMAS Orion as it slipped in behind and beneath a surfaced Soviet Charlie-class nuclear submarine heading into the Vietnamese port.

The video began with distant pictures of the Soviet submarine motoring towards the harbour, well outside the 12-nautical mile (22.2km) Vietnamese territorial limit. The video was shot through a camera in Orion's periscope as the submarine loitered, barely submerged in the choppy sea.

Then Pitt took the Orion deep, ran in close behind the Soviet boat, and came up to periscope depth again. Now the video showed the Soviet submarine's wake boiling and bubbling on the surface. Hawke watched, startled, as a clear image of the turning propeller appeared on the screen just above and ahead of Orion.

Pitt ran beneath the Soviet submarine, filming sonar and other fittings mounted along its hull. The remarkably clear pictures exposed the underwater secrets of Charlie-class technology. The only other way to get them would be for a western spy to penetrate dry-docks in the Soviet Union.

Pitt positioned Orion ahead of and beneath the Soviet submarine, slowed almost to a stop, and then allowed the Soviet boat to pass him while he filmed the other side of its hull."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/cold-war-exploits-of-australias-secret-submarines/news-story/2b5a9a088125b1873777ec8cc60cd79b

Dear Is Mise,

Thanks for that. Bloody good read.

Dear Is Mise,

I second that.

Great read - Thank You.