Public servant (ABC scribbler) Andrew Probyn has popped his cork over a speech made in England by Tony Abbott, describing Abbott as having “... drenched the work of climate scientists with contemptuous spittle”.

Probyn tries to put Abbott down by saying that he is on the fringe, but then nullifies his comment by saying that Abbott's views are “... ruinous to Malcolm Turnbull's ambition to end the climate wars”.

So, not so bad for a fringe dweller?

What Abbott said can be read on 'Quadrant Online' 10/10/17. Do you think that Abbott's comparison of climate activists with “primitive people (who) once killed goats to appease the volcano gods” is germane? Or, at least, not a bad one-liner?

you would need to be as dumbed down as the getup crowd not to see the truth in Abbott's analogy.

runner, there's zero truth in Abbott's analogy. The likening of belief in global warming to religion was a clever ploy by the neocons to fool the most gullible atheists into thinking it's illogical, and to fool the most gullible Christians into thinking it's evil. But in reality it's neither - it's just the result of logical analysis of the evidence.

How long will you let the neocons play you?

Abbott and Trump know their job . drain the swamp , make coal great .
stop the boats , stop the goats .
If "Malcolm" can be fitted into a 3 word mantra , Tony is great.

a good government is one that has priorities and places the social as the most essential to resolve....not cherry pick according to political points and end up with chaos without clarity

runner as a Christian fundo, do you believe the volcano gods have as much validity as does your Christian god. Abbott was out of touch as a PM. and from his latest headline seeking comments he is still out of touch on another major issue of climate change.

What's the fool doing in London again, besides wasting taxpayers money?

nick,

I like your "stop the goats". It's essential to be able to laugh, despite the misery and stupidity.

Paul,

Why do you hate Christians?

ttbn, where did I say I hate Christians? Why do you hate people who do not hate Christians? Just because you believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. and I don't, does not mean I hate you.

You are putting words into my mouth.

Paul,

You know very well you have never said that you hate Christians; you don't have to. OK, 'hate' was a bit over the fence; contempt would have been more accurate. There has never been anything in any of runner's posts to suggest that he is a fundamentalist. In the post you criticised, Christianity was not mentioned: “you would need to be as dumbed down as the getup crowd not to see the truth in Abbott's analogy” was all he said. For the life of me, I can't see why you would feel the need to comment on such a non-religious remark, but for the fact that you just wanted to vent your spleen against Christianity.

Now, I am happy to withdraw the word 'hate'; it was unfair. But, I am comfortable with 'contempt'. Let's face it, Paul, your sector of politics displays very negative attitudes towards Christianity while, suspiciously, giving Islam a free kick at anything, any time.

I would not align you with the truly awful Greens politicians, but you know – lying down, dogs, fleas?

ttbn
" It's essential to be able to laugh".
Agree , it's part of John Howard's Doctrine of Mateship and Menzies Values for Serious Liberals.

" He said the John Howard took it all in good spirits.
"He was just laughing pretty much, just smiling going 'ha ha ha'," he recalled. But the reaction from his friends was anything but laid back: "Do you realise what you've just done? You've hugged the Prime Minister, that's awesome."

and now Turnbull wants to pay people for not using their air conditioners. China has over 900 coal powered stations. Australia has about 30. How so many have allowed the Greens to dumb them down is astounding. You can be sure Turnbull and all the public servants will sit in air conditioned offices and planes while the pensioners work out if they can cool their houses in summer or heat them in winter. The Greens and those who worship their gods are an absolute disgrace. Regessives by nature and regressives by action.

Paying people not to use the air conditioners when they have bought the bloody things to use on hot days! It doesn't get more bizarre than that. Would anyone really be stupid enough to fall for it?

//There has never been anything in any of runner's posts to suggest that he is a fundamentalist.//

There has never been anything in any of runner's posts to suggest that he isn't a fundamentalist.

Fixed.

if believing in Creation, the corruption of man, the divinity of Christ, His death burial and resurrection defines me as a fundamentalist so be it. Could not be nearly as irrational as believing the something from nothing dogma, the idoiotic unscientific evolution fantasy and the denial of what is obvious (design requires a Designer, laws require a Lawmaker, creation demands a Creator). Oh how warped and twisted the fundie atheist makes science. Yep I am a believer by faith but not nearly as much blind faith as the fundie atheist who must have to repeat the mantra their is no god everytime creation appears before their eyes.

As a committed atheist I think Tony Abbott has really let the Genie out of the bottle. Instead of agreeing with the climate nonsense he has called it out as a scam to tax the air we breathe.
Now let's get on with taking all this nonsense down and insist that proof is needed not computer modeling. Also how much are these "Researchers" getting and more importantly what are we getting for our money.
Good on you TA!

"Every year, during the Hindu festival of Yadnya Kasada, people scale the active volcanic crater of Mount Bromo ( Hindu : Brahma) Java Indonesia . To appease the angry mountain, they throw all sorts of things into the fire, even animals . Although this isn’t pleasant for the goats and sheep that tumble into the lava, it could have been a lot worse . The festival’s history can be traced to the 15th Century, when a princess founded the Tengger principality with her husband. Failing to conceive, the pair prayed to the deities who eventually granted them 25 children – the youngest of the children had to be thrown into Mount Bromo as a sacrifice. Fortunately, this doesn’t happen these days."

No children are tormented these days by hell-fire , angry mountains or vulcan conception. But kids are thrown to priests .

'No children are tormented these days by hell-fire , angry mountains or vulcan conception. But kids are thrown to priests '
nicknamenick

only if they get out of the womb before being butchered. Just an inconvenient atheist fact.

//Oh how warped and twisted the fundie atheist makes science.//

But it isn't just the atheists, is it runner? After all, it was a Catholic priest who first proposed the idea of the Big Bang... and we all know that's another left-wing scientific conspiracy to lure people into Satanism, right runner?

'After all, it was a Catholic priest who first proposed the idea of the Big Bang... and we all know that's another left-wing scientific conspiracy to lure people into Satanism, right runner?'

actually Toni any excuse to refuse the Saviour.If its not the big bang I am sure that the god deniers would dream up another fallacy and call it science.

"only if they get out of the womb before being butchered. Just an inconvenient atheist fact."

"24 MARCH 2014
The bodies of thousands of aborted and miscarried babies were incinerated as clinical waste, with some even used to heat hospitals, an investigation has found. Ten NHS trusts have admitted burning foetal remains alongside other rubbish while two others used the bodies in ‘waste-to-energy’ plants which generate power for heat.

Last night the Department of Health issued an instant ban on the practice which health minister Dr Dan Poulter branded ‘totally unacceptable.’One of the country’s leading hospitals, Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge, incinerated 797 babies below 13 weeks gestation at their own ‘waste to energy’ plant."
-
Goat-fuelled power stations . No kidding.

Tony Abbott was correct, while global warming has some merit, it is being pursued with religious zeal, with all the illogicality, dogma and intolerance of other major religions. Of course, the Gangreens are the high priests of this new religion demanding immediate change to unreliable renewable power, demonising nuclear and coal, and proclaiming every storm, flood, fire or drought as portents of the coming apocalypse.

Climate change needs to be dealt with without ruining the economy and it is not the greatest moral challenge of our time, it does not even rank in the top 10.

Scientists have said the asteroid is on course to pass by south Australia. However space agencies test the planet’s space defences a larger, more threatening asteroid was detected heading straight for Earth.

Hi ttbn, some of the best people I know are Christians, do I have contempt for them? No, more the pity with some of their outlandish beliefs. Many Christians believe they have some god given right to impose their form of morality onto the rest of society, I believe they are dogmatic in the extreme, and can be accused of intolerance.
"giving Islam a free kick at anything, any time." Not so, Islam is every bit as dictatorial and dogmatic as any other religion. Wont be joining any time soon.

Its okay if society disappears through climate change, but providing the greedy have their economy there is nothing to worry about. Right Shadow. None so blind as those who will not see.

I saw Abbot on Andrew Bolt earlier today, and was quietly pleased with the guys efforts, both of em..

ttbn writes: "There has never been anything in any of runner's posts to suggest that he is a fundamentalist."

Erm, the fact that he's a creationist automatically qualifies him. I was a fundamentalist Christian, too.

It doesn't sound like you understand what a fundamentalist is, ttbn.

Paul,

Only an idiot believes that the economy is about the rich a strong economy pays the poorest a living wage, pays for education healthcare, roads etc. Society has more chance of disappearing from economic collapse from high power costs than through climate change.

Climate change can easily be resolved with the world's safest energy source nuclear power, but the gangreens would prefer to wreck the economy and climate before taking this sensible measure.

Shadow, I don't know how you determine the chances. The scientific evidence that climate change is real is overwhelming, and can not be deputed. When the link between smoking and lung cancer was well established with irrefutable evidence, there were vested interests, tobacco companies with something to gain, tried, and for many years were successful, in denigrating both the facts and those involved in establishing those facts.
The argument on climate change has gone down the very same path as the smoking debated did in the 50's and 60's. Just as there were useful idiots in society then, who were blinded by the spurious nonsense put out by big tobacco, there is a new generation of the same ilk, being lead by the nose by big oil and big coal on climate change.
I once thought Tony Abbott was reasonably intelligent, and was simply philosophically driven to espouse the rubbish he does. Now I believe he is a well educated moron, not fit to run a Sunday school picnic.

"Climate change can easily be resolved with the world's safest energy source nuclear power, but the gangreens would prefer to wreck the economy and climate before taking this sensible measure."
Shadow that is open to debate as well, nuclear is not all up side as you would like to present it as.

Shadow, I believe in social justice, and the economy, and how it operates is an important part of determining a fair outcome for all, but it is not the one and only consideration.

For gods sake Paul, stop the waffle, you are worse than Turnbull.

If you have any proof, any evidence at all, that CO2 causes global warming for gods sake spit it out. Billions have been wasted trying to prove CO2 is a bogyman, & not a single shred of evidence has been found. Make a hero of yourself, & give us your proof, rather than waffle.

I know small children, & the not too bright have to follow the leader, but some time you have to grow up & start to think for your self. You have to stop mouthing authority & grow up, or for ever remain a fool. Give it a go, you might actually see the light.

Paul,

I have never claimed that climate change isn't occurring, rather that:
1-it's occurring slower than originally predicted, (which has recently been confirmed by the IPCC,
2-That unreliable renewable supply needs to be backed up with baseload generation in the form of coal gas or nuclear which the AEMO has confirmed,
3-That given Australia's 1.3% of global emissions, the actions taken here that ruin the economy are largely irrelevant.

Australia's energy and GHG emissions could be largely solved by building 10-20 1500 MW reactors at existing coal-fired plants such as Hazelwood, Lindel etc and then Aus would exceed its Paris commitments and provide a cheap reliable source of power for the next 3 generations at least.

Paul, I just turned seventy years old and for all that time some crook has been trying to tell me I am going to die. It is true but hopefully not yet. You can go back one hundred years or even one thousand years and charlatans have been espousing nonsense about the ozone layer hole and Y2K bugs. We are still here!
Let me put it simply to you - joke. Bloke is rolling balls of cut grass down main street. Another bloke comes up and says "What are you doing?" First bloke says "Keeping the elephants away". Second bloke says "There are no elephants around here" First bloke says "Yes it is working a treat, isnt it?"
Check out slippery Al Gore, lectures us from his mansions and private jets about conservation? Come on he is having a laugh at you!

Hasbeen, WTF is it that you regard as unproven?
Is it...
...that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?
...that increasing greenhouse gas levels cause temperatures to increase?
...that temperatures have been increasing?
...that there hasn't been some other combination of unknown factors preventing increased CO2 from warming the planet, yet warming the planet by some other means?

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Shadow,
1. What do you regard as the original prediction of the rate of climate change?
2. Some sort of backup is certainly needed, but the idea that any of it has to come from dedicated baseload generators is so ludicrous that I'm still struggling to comprehend how anyone can take it seriously.
3. Firstly, considering we only have 0.3% of the global population, 1.3% of emissions is way above average, so it's not an excuse for inaction.
Secondly, our inaction is used by much bigger countries as an excuse to do nothing.
Thirdly, switching to renewables can be done without ruining our economy.
Fourthly, I find your concern for our economy rather hypocritical, as you support actions that ruin our economy when they're driven by an irrational fear of government debt!

We should certainly consider nuclear power. But it is an expensive option, particularly with the smaller reactors. Australia has such abundant solar energy that exploiting it is likely to work out cheaper than nuclear soon, if it isn't already.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

JBowyer, the ozone hole was a very serious problem. Had we not taken action to fix it, it would be an even more serious problem now.

Aiden the holes in the ozone layer are still there. The Southern one is larger because it gets less winter sun than the Northern one. This has been naturally occurring forever, check it out.
While you are at it check who still makes the ozone depleating gases (India and China) and how much they make. Then you will find it is still all being done despite dopey UN "Sanctions" and it was all a scam.

Do you REALLY believe that stuff Aidan, or are you trying to use it to force some thing like world government into being. If so you are almost as naïve as Steely.

Just for you Aiden, from a German scientific site.

Central Europe Mean September Temperature Shows No Significant Rise Over Past 70 Years!

By P Gosselin on 11. October 2017

Germany Temperatures Baffle: September Mean Shows Hardly Any Warming In 70 Years

By Josef Kowatsch and Dr. Sebastian Lüning
(Translated and edited by P Gosselin)

Of course I believe it, Hasbeen. I'm not one for larping, and I certainly wouldn't do so using my own name.

It's not at all naïve to go with the evidence. What's naïve is to think that a bit of cherry picked evidence (like Germany's September mean temperature) is somehow more significant than the great bulk of evidence.

So how about you answer my question: what exactly is it that you regard as unproven?

____________________________________________________________________________________

JBowyer,
Yes, the ozone holes are still there, but they are gradually getting smaller, whereas if we'd done nothing about it they'd be much bigger by now. And I am aware of the problems of compliance and of leaky equipment.

Hassy, given your admitted history on the Great Barrier Reef, you have never been an "environmentalists" have you. Denying climate change is real now, would sit well with your own small past contribution to the destruction of the planet. Nothing can be said, and no amount of evidence is ever going to change your opinion.

Aiden, mate you are being played. There was no problem it was all made up and the same crooks then invent a cure. I thought my joke explained this nonsense? Never mind you just go ahead and worry yourself sick mate!
Watch the Abbott ripple turn into a tsunami that will sweep away the nonsense we have been subjected to for the last umpteen years.
Here is a little project for you Aiden. Youtube and look for "Doomwatch". It was a BBC TV series that had a different end of the world scenario each episode.
Like my old Mum would say "it is only being so miserable that keeps you going" lol.

//There was no problem it was all made up//

Chemistry is all made up? Well I must say that's a new one.

There is absolutely no doubt that Cl radicals are produced from the action of ultraviolet radiation on CFC's & HCFCS or that they catalyse the destruction of ozone. You are living in a fantasy land.

No Toni, you prove your own dishonesty! It is the lack of sun that produces the hole. The sun that is not there in winter that opens up the hole. More in the Southern hemisphere because of the particular tilt of the earth.
An Australian scientist explained all this at the time but there is more copy in making up doom stories and so many more dollars in research available. And all that research asks for more dollars for more research!
It is a scam and we should be shutting down all monies to these shills. Let them go out and get a real job rather than trying to scare vulnerable people like Aiden.

JBowyeer,
The lack of sun is certainly a factor in the production of the ozone hole, as sunlight is necessary for the natural formation of ozone. But without the chlorine monoxide to catalyse the destruction of ozone, there would still be some up there even at the end of winter.

It's not those who know what's going on who are being played, it's those who are so convinced one small aspect of the phenomenon makes everything OK that they ignore all the evidence to the contrary.

Aidan,

1-
"It was widely seen as impossible because analysis at the time indicated it required carbon emissions to fall to zero within seven years, a speed deemed “incompatible with democracy” by one climate economist. However, an updated analysis using the latest data shows the global carbon emissions budget that meets the 1.5C goal is significantly bigger than thought, equivalent to 20 years of current annual emissions."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/18/ambitious-15c-paris-climate-target-is-still-possible-new-analysis-shows

"The worst impacts of climate change can still be avoided, senior scientists have said after revising their previous predictions. The world has warmed more slowly than had been forecast by computer models, which were “on the hot side” and overstated the impact of emissions, a new study has found. Its projections suggest that the world has a better chance than previously claimed of meeting the goal set by the Paris agreement on climate change to limit warming to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels. The study, published in the journal Nature Geoscience, makes clear that rapid reductions in emissions will still be required but suggests that the world has more time to make the changes."

2-
Firstly I never said dedicated baseload generation, as there is no such thing as all generators can vary supply to match generation to some extent, just as no standby generators can come online instantly.

I'm sorry that you don't have the mental horsepower to grasp the concepts, so I suggest you read the latest AEMO reports.

3-
Also, I never said that there should be inaction, rather judicious action that does cause power prices to rocket, the system to become unstable, and industries to shut down and/ or move to cheaper environments instead of hurtling headlong into a South Australian like disaster.

Similarly, like most of the world's economists, I don't agree with your lunatic fringe infinite debt version of economics. Debt has to be paid back with interest.

Small reactors are more expensive per unit of power, and the most cost-effective are large modern multi-reactor power stations with 2 or more 1500MW reactors. 5 of these for around $35bn would reduce our emissions by nearly 50%.