I believe the rhetoric is coming out to have us buy the American Thaad anti missile system.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/37278109/australia-must-prepare-for-nuclear-war-with-north-korea/

Australia has no choice but to prepare for a missile attack from North Korea, a former Pentagon nuclear weapons official warns.

The former Obama administration defence official also said that warships should be fitted with proper while pointing out that Australia’s radar defences were rather sparse.

"I don't think it's a large number of very expensive interceptors and radars deployed around the periphery of the Australian continent," he said.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/860194/North-Korea-Australia-attack-missile-Malcolm-Turnbull-World-War-3

Former Pentagon official Dr Brad Roberts warned that unhinged Kim Jong-un could follow through on threats to devastate Australia with his arsenal of missiles and nukes.

The idea that NK would attack Australia makes no sense.

Scenario, A country is being threatened by a group of countries with 1 (USA) being the leader and have a proven record of deceit the other countries are just like puppets, only a fool would waste any of the limited number of long range missiles and nukes on the puppets the lot will be unleashed on America, short range ones will go to Japan or Guam

Lets hope Turnbull does not blow the deficit out by Billions more in an arms race, especially after the debacles of the past with warships and the F35 lemon. Not to mention the submarine fiasco

Hey Philip S,
Not just to purchase thaad missile defence, but talk up war rhetoric / make sure allies are all on board.
The bottom line is that if the US in not prepared to accept the North Koreans nuclear status, (which I don't think it is) then it's going to have to pre-emptively strike a nuclear armed country.
All this talk of sanctions is a waste of my time, telling me what they think I want to hear.
The North Koreans don't care about the sanctions, they know only one thing.
That the US will seek to have them give up nuclear programs or chemical weapons so it can invade the country like it did in Iraq, Syria and everywhere else, on false pretexts and backed by false flags.
Personally I want no part of it, and on some level I now actually support the North Koreans in telling America where to go.
I supported Trump and I hoped the US would start acting less imperialistic in its liberal interventionist foreign policies but it has not.
He tried to drain the swamp, but he has instead become the swamp, he never had control over US forign policy and I do not support the US anymore.

It's all talk anyway, because I seriously doubt the effectiveness of thaad against MIRV's travelling at 15,000mph on re-entry anyway.
The best thing we could do is stop supporting US wars, their country is done now anyway.
It's China and India which are set for the next 100yrs of growth and the only thing the US exports is scrapmetal and GMO's.

F-35 ? Don't get me started with 'the flying turds'
The insulation in the fuel talks comes off causing the plane to blow up, onboard cannon doesn't work so they had to fit one under it's belly plus the helmets don't work + 270 odd other defects...
It's almost like microsoft releasing a new edition of windows and expecting consumers to fix all the bugs...
Submarines? How much did we pay 50bln?
India bought 6 Scorpene class diesel electrics from DCNS for 4.16bln?

Dear Philip,

«only a fool would waste any of the limited number of long range missiles and nukes on the puppets the lot will be unleashed on America»

Not according to mathematical game theory.

A rational strategy would include probability, so rather than just pressing a button, a better strategy could be:

"We've instructed a nuclear submarine to roll a dice under water, then sail to a destination accordingly.
In 21 days we will not know where it is, but it will go up somewhere and check online, then unless its order was rescinded by a special code known only to the submarine's captain and dear-leader, there's 5% it will hit New-York, 4% it will hit Washington, 3% it will hit Los-Angeles, 6% it will hit Japan, 2% it will hit Australia and 80% it will do nothing".

Yes, Australia should prepare, but more against short-range attacks by North-Korean submarines, especially as part of a retaliatory second-strike, than against direct missile attacks from North-Korea itself.

Dear Philip,

On the news this morning we were told that North Korea
has accepted to be involved with talks with the United States
mediated by China to discuss the future of North Korean
missile tests.

In my opinion, all North Korea wants is to show the world
that it is capable to be a major military force in its own
defence. It is American President Trump's aggravation of the
situation by trying to bait North Korea that is the cause of
the problems. If Trump were to be removed - the situation
would minimise. Once North Korea satisfied itself that their
experiments are successful.

Unless a military threat against Australia is proven we should
not waste finances on armaments - when there is a greater
need elsewhere - such as investments in energy, water and other
priorities. Australia is not a threat to North Korea.
But Trump is.

Dearest Foxy,

I don't think it's just a matter of either-or - both NK and US leaders are warmongers, upping each others' rhetoric and leaving no room for more sensible options. Like two big kids at the back of the playground.

Of course, war can't be allowed to occur -as the meat in the sandwich, South Korea would be obliterated in the first days. But of course, China would be immediately involved if the US was stupid enough to invade. Then it would be on. Goodbye, world economy.

Of course, it wouldn't stop at conventional warfare: within minutes, nuclear weapons would be activated, on both sides, and inevitably from China too.

So of course negotiations will have to occur, endless negotiations if necessary, and sweeteners will have to be put on the table.

Another thing: as was perceptively noted above, NK submarines can probably already bring nuclear-tipped missiles far closer to other countries, Australia and the US included. One of the NK's rocket launches looked like a double-ignited submarine-based weapon.

So as Churchill said, it's better to jaw-jaw than war-war, especially in this crucial situation. So what can be offered to NK as sweeteners, not as appeasement but to bring it in from the cold ?

Love,

Joe

Foxy,

I well remember Trump's warmongering that led to North Korea invading South Korea way back in 1950 and all the flying pigs since then.

Dear Joe,

Hopefully something productive will come out of
the anticipated talks and diplomacy with China's
assistance. The concern is that Trump is the
one who's expounding the aggressive rhetoric
(poking the bear), not his advisers who
repeatedly seek a more moderate approach. It's
a pity that the man does not seem capable of
taking advice.

Dear Is Mise,

The 50s were before my time. However I do enjoy
watching the excellent TV series "Mash". And as
for Trump being involved? He was probably still
at school.

Foxy,

"He was probably still
at school."

Do tell!

//"He was probably still
at school."

Do tell!//

Trump was born in 1946 - assuming he started school at age 5, he'd have spent most of the 50's failing to get an decent education despite the best efforts of his teachers.

Foxy,

Because the US has opened communications with NK does not mean that negotiations are anywhere near close.

The single most important thing to waging war is cash. Without it, a large, well-trained, and equipped fighting force is not possible. KJU's obsession with nuclear weapons and missiles has cost the poverty-stricken nation many $bns, and it clearly shows on NK's conventional forces which are stunted and ill-equipped with even light weapons, and its military hardware is many decades old.

China for decades has been happy to sit back and let NK sabre rattle and build up a nuclear arsenal, but it is only recently that China has realised that the corresponding build-up in SK actually threatens China. The installation of the THAAD anti-missile system to knock down NK's missiles can just as easily knock down China's, and the talk of planting US nukes in SK will effectively neutralise China's defences in much the same way as placing missiles in Cuba threatened the US.

Now that the sanctions have been dramatically ramped up against NK, it is now a waiting game much like the more than a decade it took to bring Iran and Lybia to heel. With NK's economy collapsing it will become nearly impossible to keep its standing army let alone complete or maintain a sophisticated missile defence.

A similar tactic was used against Russia by Reagan who ramped up military spending, forcing Russia to compete until Russia's economy collapsed in 1989.

The Royal Australian Navy's new Hobart-class ships have the US Aegis combat system and are capable of being fitted with anti-ballistic missiles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart-class_destroyer

This would be a relatively affordable and feasible, compared to buying a dedicated anti-ballistic missile system. But these ships would have only a limited capability, each at best, each able to protect one city. The SM-6 missiles have a range of only a few hundred km: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-174_Standard_ERAM

Australia already has the JORN over-the-horizon radar, which was designed to detect ships and aircraft, but may be capable of tracking ballistic missiles: http://www.australiandefence.com.au/E7425840-F806-11DD-8DFE0050568C22C9

Australia also has a world leading designer of radars in Canberra, CEA Technologies. CEA is fitting RAN ships with radars capable of detecting ballistic missiles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEA_Technologies

The idiot running North Korea is on a terror watch of his own. He would be frightened of someone in his family or the military suddenly knocking him. It must make you rather fractious to say the least. Trump is well aware of what he is doing and he is surrounded by advisers.
Some of you people really need to temper your views of Trump. It is simple "He Won!" understand? Have a cry and get over it. I hope Trump starts on all the waste in defence spending which helps no one especially the US. This is something that Obama or Clinton did nothing about ditto North Korea.
Personally I would be sending cartoons making fun of the little despot it would do more than any intelligent comments.

Dear Is Mise,

Telling you anything as I've learned is
not easy.

We certainly cannot defend ourselves, given our pathetic spend on defence and the politicalisation/feminisation/gender-bending of our military. We need to listen very carefully to the U.S and act like their best allies. We need them more than they need us, and we need to start appreciating their interest in us.

PS.Anyone calling Trump a war monger is a nitwit, and that includes you, Joe.

Foxy,

"Telling you anything as I've learned is
not easy."

Telling me BS is not easy.

Thanks everyone for comments.

I did not take the submarines into account big mistake just shows that the more heads involved in situations bring out things that may not have been taken into account.
The damage they would cause by comparison to a nuke is negligible.

The subs are old and I believe the missiles they are capable of using would not be GPS capable just like the scud missiles Saddam used fire them in the direction of a target and hope you hit something.
Even if they were GPS capable the US would shut down the satellites like they did in the Gulf war.

The only negotiated outcome is NK give up the nukes, this absolutely will not happen because America has a proven record that if that happened they would be attacked.
Also America and SK are making the situation worse by holding military drill every year right on the border, if the were to stop the situation would be calmer.

Where is the money coming from, also can they shoot down the new hypersonic ones Russia and China have?

Australia’s new warships to have missile defence

PRIME Minister Malcolm Turnbull has made a pointed statement towards North Korea as he unveiled Australia’s new fleet of warships.

AUSTRALIA’S new warships will have the capability to shoot down long-range missiles including those from rogue states such as North Korea.

The Royal Australian Navy will add nine new anti-submarine frigates with anti-missile capabilities to its fleet, complete with the multi-billion dollar technology, with construction planned to begin in 2020.

“Recent events in our region have proven that Australia’s future frigates must be equipped to defend Australia from the threat of medium and long-range missile attacks,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told the Pacific 17 maritime and naval showcase, referencing North Korea.

“We must have the capability to meet and defeat them.”

Also Quote "The government says it hopes America’s Aegis combat management system will protect Australia “in the decades ahead”, according to a statement from the Prime Minister’s office."

The guy is a fool - He HOPES it will protect Australia.

Con't

Three shipbuilders are in the running for the $30 billion Future Frigate program — the UK’s BAE Systems with its Type 26, Fincantieri of Italy with its FREMM and Navantia of Spain with an updated F100.

The winner will be announced in 2018.

They will replace the Anzac frigates from the mid-2020s, in a project that will create more than 2000 jobs.

For $30 Billion 2,000 new jobs that is 15 million dollars per job
Good one Turnbull add that to the $50 Billion for the submarines.

My son was in Seoul last week and said it was all a non event there. No one concerned at all.
Lets all chill out and have a nice cup of tea.
Also let's not spend so much money on mostly ineffectual weaponry.

I think Trump handled Kim Jung, correctly.
Twits like Kim Jung, don't respond to appeasement, only muscle.

If Kim Jung is trying to broker some deal with his threatening behaviour,
then, I don't think we should respond to blackmail.

If he gets what he wants once, he will never let up wanting the next thing and the next thing.

Phillip S, would you please tell me just what the point would be in adding a fleet 9 of new frigates to the Oz navy. For that matter, let's hope we manage to avoid building those subs too.

At this moment the RAN is considering mothballing HMAS Adelaide, the one billion dollar mistake, because they can't man the thing. They are hoping that with the combined crew of Canberra & Adelaide they will actually manage to man Canberra.

Currently they can't even man the landing craft of the things, without calling up reservists to help. It will be interesting to see if one of these is actually operational & available next time we have cyclone victims needing help.

They can never fully man more than 3 of the subs, & often only have 2 with full crew. Fortunately that doesn't matter much, when the things can't get past Broom without a repair job, @ that idiot Turnbull wants to get 12 built by the same incompetent South Australian mob.

I suppose we might be able to find enough stokers to run a couple, if they are any better than this lot.

Unless we start treating our service men a hell of a lot better than we now do, & attract enough people to man even what we have, we are just wasting money getting new ships.

We could give the admirals some rubber duckies to play with in the bath. For all the use our navy really is, this would be about as effective.

Don't know what all the hoo-ha is about if anyone wants to invade Australia all they have to do is pick an appropriate weekend....usually a long one.
Now if someone, say NK, were to waste munitions on Australia we should be extremely flattered 'cos what a waste of resources that would be.
Now NK may be what it is, but stupid isn't one of them.
This is between NK and the US with NK showing SK that in the end the US will throw SK to the wolves.
My perception is that NK wants unification but without US presence....and it will happen, sooner or later.
Why Australia needs to be seen as taking sides is beyond me but there you have it...our 'merican efwits ask Australia to show solidarity in postulation and Australia can't wait to accept the role of water boy.
First in the decimation of Iraq and on from there.
I wanted to believe Australia would, one day, stand on it's own hind legs and seek it's own determination but given the calibre of political leadership and the inclination of the masses I think the indigenous could do a better job

Want us to stand on our own hind legs ilmessaggio, then we'll have to increase our defence budget to at least 8% of GDP, & find a way of making the defence force a more pleasant place to work.

That would cut about half our welfare & health care government spending.
No government could survive such a change, so don't hold your breath waiting for us to become independent any time soon.

I said 'I wanted'....I'm much older now and although I have no intention of being a lapdog I can accept that others need to be.

Hasbeen's post indicates that few people wish to join the navy. Don't suppose that would have anything to do with the current gender-bending and feminisation of the the services, would it?

They can get them to join ttbn, they just can't get them to stay after they are trained. The useless deadheads do stay, but those with the ability to make things work disappear very quickly, when they find how little they are valued.

When you have our 2 major ships recently being followed by large ocean going tugs, it says a lot about the condition of our ships, & the standard of the maintenance.

Oz is due south of Guam and Japan which have the right of first shot at a missile . However the Law says you can't shoot down an innocent missile.
"Malcolm, Anderson Base in Guam speaking. We think our mutual friend just sent one down under . Let us know how you get on".
...( chat chat)..
"Anderson , we just lost Gunnagetmuddy buffalo farm near Darwin . I'm extremely cross and so is Julie. Very cross . We're resolved to do something serious".
" OK Malcolm. Tweeting Trump now"

Hasbeen,

But I see that they have now given the Collins the A OK, just before it's due to be decommissioned. I can't see why we are not buying off the shelf, proven vessels rather than making work for SA to keep the "mincing poodle" in parliament. Our defence should have nothing to do job creation; it's far too important.

A country that cannot make it's own weapons to defend itself has to ask itself whether it is just a hole in the ground with it's only purpose being to provide industrialized nations with raw materials, in which case let the industrialized nations defend 'the hole'. Individually Australians are hard working, collectively they have no idea of either entity or self determination, save for amassing 'friends' on Facebook and acquainting themselves with the latest iphone features.
A country where 'free money' is there for the asking and with no idea as to what to do when it runs out....and it will run out given it's propensity for buying and not making it's own.
I've said it before... a nation that surrenders it's manufacturing surrenders it's right to self determination.
With the free loaders we have in govt being paid on the forever ever plan, with the blessing of the voters, the voters are entitled to everything coming their way.

The Defense Department reported that the overall cost of the Vietnam war was $173 billion (equivalent to $770 billion in 2003 dollars). Veteran's benefits and interest would add another $250 billion ($1 Trillion in 2003 dollars)= about 2 trillion today.
Population was 45 million 1970, say 30 million communists , 6 million men. Give each man his share of 2 trillion : $300 ,000 and he becomes capitalist. US today is selling weapons to Vietnam. United Korea will probably become a Chinese-capitalist ally of US with Kim and Trump arm-wrestling in the White House.

Hasbeen quote "would you please tell me just what the point would be in adding a fleet 9 of new frigates to the Oz navy"

If you can't pick out the answer here is a quote from my comment
"For $30 Billion 2,000 new jobs that is 15 million dollars per job
Good one Turnbull add that to the $50 Billion for the submarines."

Quote "When you have our 2 major ships recently being followed by large ocean going tugs, it says a lot about the condition of our ships, & the standard of the maintenance."
I would say it is more appropriate to blame public servants who drew up the specifications for the ships and possible corruption in tendering and checking on the job.