Dear Is Mise,

You really want to go there mate? Shooting ranges in the country becoming a choice location for people wanting to end their lives because of loosening of gun laws.

“The widow of a man who committed suicide at a Sydney shooting range has called on the New South Wales Government to tighten gun control laws.
Shirin Molnar has told the ABC her husband, Gabby Molnar, was able to take his own life because of a deal between the previous Labor government and the Shooters and Fishers Party six years ago.
Under the deal, the NSW Firearms Act was amended making it legal for people without a gun licence to fire a gun at an approved range.
All customers need to do is sign a P650 form declaring they do not have a criminal history, a mental illness or any medical condition which could prevent them from firing a weapon safely.
Police are not required to do background checks on applicants before they get access to loaded weapons.
…
Mr Molnar's suicide was not an isolated case. Since 2002, eight people have committed suicide in shooting ranges across Australia; two in South Australia, two in Western Australia, two in Queensland and two in New South Wales.
There has also been a siege and a homicide in NSW, both committed with guns stolen from firing ranges.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-17/widow-calls-for-tighter-gun-laws-after-shooting-range-suicides/6327284

We can make that count at least 10 now.

This one was at the home of the Sporting Shooters association of Australia.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/the-standard/person-found-dead-at-st-marys-shooting-range/news-story/01e58246bc46e87ba0bace0f87006e5b?nk=5fb8903e74da52018378004f72a0035e-1502363429

And

“A 47-year-old man died at the Marksman Indoor Firing Range, on Franklin St, on Tuesday afternoon. Police said there were no suspicious circumstances.
It was the third death at the shooting range in six years, after similar incidents in 2008 and 2009.”
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger/city/debate-over-moving-marksman-indoor-firing-range-after-third-death/news-story/15e3b8d0a48ac787591e4b1a15688bc6?nk=5fb8903e74da52018378004f72a0035e-1502363497

How many deaths of ordinary suffering Australians will it take before you take some bloody responsibility for your sport? How about supporting a retightening of the laws at ranges?

All decent Australian must be appalled by those suicides and other deaths at shooting ranges in this country. I am appalled, are you appalled Issy? The problems is even greater than what I thought, is it greater than what you thought Issy? The only word for it is appalling, do you have another word for it Issy?

SteeleRedux,

Those small numbers prove the very opposite to what you foolishly imply.

Hanging, rope, is by far the most preferred method of suicide with poisoning following. Quite possibly many single vehicle deaths are also suicide, but finding evidence is difficult.

Firearm suicide is uncommon. Further, it is very rare as you have demonstrated for there to be an incident on a range despite the hundreds of competitors and visitors there a week (or a day on some ranges).

To follow your twisted thinking, the train driver and the government railways department should be blamed for a suicide on the tracks. Of course there are some idealists who do demand that all of the thousands of kilometres of railway lines be fenced 2m high and monitored. Others demand that the rivers and ponded water be fenced, the sea too? Greens would ambulance chase and protest anything.

In a previous post you went on about police injuring one another, or a bystander. Once again it didn't seem to cross your mind that the 'n', the number, was very low. So you proved the opposite of what you say you believe.

You leave all wondering how anyone could be so numerically challenged.

There is no doubt whatsoever that our licensed firearms owners and their ranges have enviable records for safety. Also, that excellent record goes back to the year dot in Australia (and NZ too). That has been discussed already with the example of thousands of cadets over many years and the WW2 assault rifle. Some might be left wondering what other sports/recreation might prove a similar claim for safety? Definitely not cycling for one. However, you would be an expert in your own lunchtime on that too, so you would have an entrenched view if anyone might listen.

From day one the primary purpose of the gun was that of a killing weapon. Unlike the gun, a train, a car, a length of rope were never invented or intended for the purpose of taking life.
It is a total absurdity and a very weak argument to try and justify deaths caused by guns, by pointing to deaths by other means. If a person dies from cancer, is is some how lessened because others have died from heart attacks? Ridiculous.
The pro guns like Is Mise and Leoj, have no logic to justify the violence, so they resort to the illogical. It is the selfishness of the minuscule minority that perpetuates the pro gun argument, as they attempt to argue that gun laws should be relaxed or even abolished.

When I was Skydiving regularly in the 60/70's I remember reading a list of the most dangerous sports. Skydiving was #10 & believe it or not Cricket was #1. Shooting was down around #8. I'll have to Google the latest figures now that BASE Jumping & Winged Suits are in.

My list for owning a firearm:

1. A through Psych Test.
2. Three References of Good Conduct.
3. Belong to a Registered Club.
4. A Register of all Members & the Weapons owned.
5. Sign in & out of the Gun Club.
6. Have undergone a Range & Firearm Safety Course.
7. All weapons to be stored in an Armory at the Range.
8. All weapons to be signed out & into the Armory.
9. All Ammunition to be kept in a separate Storage.
10. The number of Rounds checked out & any unused returned to Storage.

Paul1405, 'guns are made to kill people'

Your pub argument is foolish, even to the drunks you probably try it on. It is technological determinism. Meaning that the technology determines the outcome. Technological determinism is an obsolete, disproved, theory that once something made, it can only be used for the singular purpose that item made and nothing else.

However most people with a skerrick of independent thinking ability would realise that social construction, ie use of technology, is what matters. That the use of an object is determined by society, by the person, the user.

Tell me now, how do far leftists such as yourself imagine the world-wide web? No, don't bother, most might guess what the NSW Greens 'Trots' make of the Web.

You say you are here on OLO to represent the views of the NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens, who are cozied up with the imported idealism of 'gun control', that:

- has nothing to do with the effective and efficient regulation of firearms ownership and use and is NOT concerned with deterring and catching criminals either; but,

- is solely directed at total bans and the confiscation of licensed citizens' property by the State and at the point of a gun.

Contrary to its claim that 'gun control' wants to 'strengthen' and 'tighten' firearms law, it is aimed at over-ruling, overturning and replacing the present democratic law, to ban instead. At the behest of foreign interests who have a record of interfering in the domestic affairs of western democracies.

The public really need to wonder about the highly secretive 'gun control' activists and the interests behind them, their fear of disclosure and their implacable refusal to reveal even the very due diligence basic information such as membership, office bearers, sources and use of funds, political links and so on.

That is totalitarianism. It also goes against, trashes, the present firearms laws, and the fundamental individual rights and freedoms that western democracy and the law are based on.