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The Forum > General Discussion > What A Circus!

What A Circus!

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Well AJ Philips,
Your response is as devoid of real answers as is Foxy's.
I have no opinion on the reliability of the polls.
Those who are convinced that the same sex change is favoured by the
majority they should be keen to get it proved and then implemented
as quickly as possible. Then it will all be over.

I suspect that majority is in favour but I do not KNOW it is so.

If they are doubtful that the majority is in favour of same sex
marriage then the last thing they would want is a plebiscite.
They already know that the polies are in favour.

If a postal vote is done there will always be argument that the result
was incorrect by the losing side.

The only real argument that I have seen against the plebiscite is that
there will be vilification against those in favour.
The only vilification I have seen is against those against same sex.

See labour has just forced a further delay into a decision.
The plebiscite is the only way to get a definite indisputable result.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 1:39:35 PM
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How is my response devoid of answers, Bazz?

<<Your response is as devoid of real answers as is Foxy's.>>

I hinted at a preference for a free vote in parliament because of the deleterious effects that a plebiscite would have, and pointed out how and why appeals to democratic ideals are disingenuous.

Please tell me what more there is to address. I’d be happy to comment further if you could.

<<I have no opinion on the reliability of the polls.>>

Of course not, now that it would be foolish to claim that they are all rigged.

One thing that fascinates me about this debate is the fact that the nay-sayers are so gosh-darned determined to insist that they are in the majority (or at least avoid conceding that they are indeed in the minority). On most other issues, people seem happy enough to acknowledge when they are in a minority. Some even revel in it. Not on this issue, though. No, we’re all in the majority on this issue, apparently.

Strange.

<<If they are doubtful that the majority is in favour of same sex marriage then the last thing they would want is a plebiscite.>>

That would be the case, yes. But then, they may also be against a plebiscite because of concerns for the mental health issues that we can know would result from an inevitable and ugly hate campaign preceding the vote.

<<If a postal vote is done there will always be argument that the result was incorrect by the losing side.>>

Agreed. A vote would need to be compulsory to have any validity.

<<The only real argument that I have seen against the plebiscite is that there will be vilification against those in favour.>>

No, I haven’t seen that argument. The concerns I’ve seen raised are with regards to the mental health effects on the gay community. Why would people in favour of marriage equality care about what a few bigots thought of their opinion on the matter?

Or do you actually think that the only people in favour of marriage equality are themselves gay?
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:19:51 PM
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AJP said;
That would be the case, yes. But then, they may also be against a
plebiscite because of concerns for the mental health issues that we can
know would result from an inevitable and ugly hate campaign preceding
the vote.

Oh really, you are offering that as a reason not to have a plebiscite ?
If they are that fragile perhaps they are in the wrong lifestyle or
they should not indulge in the hate campaign.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:59:34 PM
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Yes, Bazz, I am.

<<Oh really, you are offering that as a reason not to have a plebiscite ?>>

So are many others. Where have you been? You make it sound like I just made it up then.

<<If they are that fragile …>>

There is nothing particularly fragile about minority stress. It's a very real phenomenon, and a very normal and predictable response to marginalisation.

<<… perhaps they are in the wrong lifestyle …>>

Homosexuality is not a choice.

<<… or they should not indulge in the hate campaign.>>

They’re not, that I can tell. If people want to be bigots, then that’s their prerogative, but they don’t get to cry, “Hate campaign!”, when others point out their bigotry.

If you don't like the so-called "hate campaign" against those who are against marriage equality, then provide a rational reason against same-sex marriage, because just getting squeamish over the thought of two blokes kissing isn't a rational reason to be opposed to it.
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 4:36:18 PM
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AJP, democracy is more important than someone getting stressed.
If someone feels that way they can shut themselves off until it is over.
I am sure there would be organisations that would provide a filtered
news environment for those at such risk.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 5:04:02 PM
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Certainly, Bazz.

<<democracy is more important than someone getting stressed.>>

But we’re not just talking about one person here. Nor are we necessarily just talking about mere stress.

I see no reason as to why this issue, specifically, needs to go a plebiscite (especially a non-binding one) over any other issue.

We allow politicians to vote on our behalf on a wide range of issues all the time; issues that have far greater repercussions than marriage equality. I have never heard a reasonable argument as to why this issue should be so different.

<<If someone feels that way they can shut themselves off until it is over.>>

That’s an unreasonable expectation, and probably wouldn’t be possible.

It would be more realistic to argue a case for why the deleterious effects of an ugly debate are worth the benefits of holding a plebiscite. If that can’t be done, then a plebiscite should be abandoned.

It is not worth compromising the health of an entire demographic just because some, who cannot even rationally justify their position, want to be able to fruitlessly scrawl a tick in a ‘No’ box.
Posted by AJ Philips, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 5:57:09 PM
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