You have all missed the point:
The defence forces, air force, navy and land forces will be inoperable
after two weeks, perhaps sooner due to hoarding.
The Federal and State governments will also be inoperable.
Only local government will have any functions.

Perhaps the army will be marching up to Queensland or be on a steam
train, pulled by the reconditioned C3801 and the C36 that are the two
operational steam locomotives in NSW.
Forget about forward defence, that is a fuel dependant operation.
An armed population may well be all that we can manage.
However an invader will quickly run out of fuel also and the invader
and us will have a bigger problem, locating food.

Oh yes the Navy might call for crew with sailing experience to man
HMAS Endeavour.
You think I am joking ?

Bazz,

I agree with you and others do too, that the fuel reserves and production are not there for self sufficiency under threat.

But your argument is first with those who dismiss the need for an acceptable defence capability, or maybe as international socialists or whatever they don't really care. To them, 'national' is a dirty word. And there are those who believe that the US umbrella would be always available and sufficient. Even that Australia should be expecting that, gratis.

It is only through being proactive and other areas of policy are relevant too, that Australia can have any hope of countering the most likely threat, which is an occupation more or less along the lines of the present migrant invasion of Europe.

There are countries nearby who would like to grab Australia's resources to balance their economies. They must see opportunity in the leftists' disruption of initiatives to improve Australia's capacity to defend its borders and at a distance.

However it hurts brains to be thinking, especially independently of spoon-feeding Waleed and others.

Most prefer to be discussing gay this or that. It is one of the diversions they have been given to occupy the dumbed-down and goes well with the take away sugar, fat and salt of their takeaway TV dinners.

Leoj,

Is it possible for you to provide evidence of your claim that;

"There are countries nearby who would like to grab Australia's resources to balance their economies. They must see opportunity in the leftists' disruption of initiatives to improve Australia's capacity to defend its borders and at a distance."

Are you referring to Indonesia? or is it New Zealand? possibly East Timor?

The militarists among us, you included, have used a false premise, presenting it as fact, that a threat to Australia exists to justify intervention in aggressive wars, or at the very least excessive spending on offensive military hardware.

I recognize the reality that Australia does require an appropriate defense capability, but that in itself does not justify excessive spending on 'big boys toys' like submarines.

Paul1405,

Those NSW 'Eastern Bloc' Greens handlers of yours need to give you a red clown's nose to go with the 'Useful Idiot' lapel badge. How did your boasted visit to Melbourne go? Dodge any street cameras while carrying the 'Watermelon' contagion to the willing Adam Bandt?

The Eastern Bloc's Trots threat (and death?) list puts the US and Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, as their top threats. That is to the Greens' goal of 'one world government' where Australians lose control over their destiny and their children, their birthright, particularly their freedom of speech, democratic institutions and Australian law . Add to that the UK, most of Europe and in fact all of the Western democracies, who the Greens maintain are the 'real' invaders and the cause of all of the world's problems.

However most people do as I do which is to accept the assessments of Defence, DoFA and experts including the Lowy Institute. It is a fact easily seen from news reports that the strategic outlook in the Indo-Pacific is more hazardous. Both sides of the federal Parliament have been dragged down by wasted parliamentary pre-occupation with Green's nuisance subjects such as gay marriage and are failing to adequately prepare Australia for a ‘less rosy Asia’.
Australia is highly susceptible to treats to maritime shipping routes and one would definitely add changing Indonesian leadership/s.

Most posters provide support from what they say and I usually do the same out of politeness and respect for others time. But YOU never do, while setting out to be the forum clown and stirrer. What about YOU actually make a contribution to the discussion some time?

Should be, "Australia is highly susceptible to THREATS to maritime shipping routes and one would definitely add changing Indonesian leadership/s."

Paul1405, not being any sort of expert on defence I draw your attention
to China's claims to the Sth China sea down to Indonesia because they
claim in historical times it was under their control.
It is only a extension of that to claim that the Chinese admiral, whose
name I cannot remember, discovered Australia on his way to Africa and
claimed it in the name of his emperor.
When the number of Chinese living in Australia reaches a certain level
it would give the Chinese government a further lever to justification.

Perhaps you have not noticed the Wahhabi influenced moslem activists
in Indonesia. If they get control of the government they may decide
that we are suppressing moslems in Australia and come to "rescue" them.
To consider and prepare for that sort of scenario is the reason we
pay politicians and defence people.

Nuclear submarines are said to be very noisy but they may have a
different attack technique because of their speed.
For the same money we could get fewer submarines but get more sea time.