Today in Andrew Bolts blog he mentioned a royal Commission in the NT that did not know anything about aboriginal underage marriages or male genital mutilation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/shooting-the-messenger-on-aboriginal-child-abuse/news-story/6028a8ce6ca422e481368e9ad9a1900f

Below is a story from the Aus in 2014

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/underage-marriage-in-remote-areas-rife/news-story/9e65f90153f73789d7d2480c37cff71c

Below is an article on sub-incision of males.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_subincision

There are other article available for those prepared to google.

The question must be asked is why the RC is not aware of these happenings or are they simply in denial.

Soon there may be a referendum held in which we will be asked to give aboriginals more say in their affairs or even on self government.

If they cover up these type of things and the rate of child abuse generally, it makes me doubt if they are capable of handling any responsibility.

It doesn't say much for Royal Commissions and the people running them, does it? But most things in Australia now seem to operate on knee-jerking and ideology, not on facts or reality.

Changing our Constitution at the behest of these minority ideologues would not help the woman and children being abused, and it would just be another step toward the self-destruction of Australia.

ttbn,
It certainly does not say much for the NT government or the people running the Royal commission.

Here is another article about child abuse written in 2007

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/a-long-tradition-of-abuse/news-story/74a11f05cbffcb09a9f97d9408bb25ce

Makes me wonder what information a computer literate person could come up with on child abuse in the NT.

Banjo,

The links don't open.
First, here is a news article from when the RC was being established,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-12/gillard-launches-royal-commission-into-child-abuse/4367364

Secondly, from Google, is this the issue?
http://www.jimball.com.au/blog/shocking-shooting-messenger-aboriginal-child-abuse-andrew-bolt/

"This Is Shocking — Shooting The Messenger On Aboriginal Child Abuse — Andrew Bolt
by Jim Ball | Jun 29, 2017 | Blog, Child abuse inquiry, Indigenous |
This is shocking.

I heard this exchange on radio yesterday with the snippy, snarling, salivating pit-bull lawyer for the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Association trying to badger and savage John Elferink the former Child Protection Commissioner when he was giving his evidence at the Royal Commission.

They just didn’t want to hear it. They didn’t want to know.

Their misguided protection racket of cultural practices (genital mutilation and child marriage) that we would demonise in Islam or child sexual abuse in the Catholic church, was as blatant as it was ugly. The video of the proceedings are even worse.
It is the stuff of the Spanish Inquisition.

“…It is disgraceful that lawyers for Aboriginal groups and a royal commission yesterday savaged former NT Child Protection Minister John Elferink for warning of the genital mutilation of Aboriginal boys and forced marriages of Aboriginal children.
But he was challenged over his motives for raising the issues, with counsel for the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Association Peggy Dwyer accusing him of trying to demonise Aboriginal communities.
‘You are prepared to make a statement to this Royal Commission that has the effect of demonising an Aboriginal cultural practice, correct?’ she asked…
This is astonishing. Haven’t we just gone through years of attacking Catholic bishops for not believing or heeding warnings of child abuse in their ranks?
Why were they angry when someone tried to protect children from barbaric customs? Shooting The Messenger On Aboriginal Child Abuse"

leoj,
The first link opened for me (twice)
The second link looks like it is protected by a paywall, but it originally opened for me, so I'll try it again

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/a-long-tradition-of-abuse/news-story/74a11f05cbffcb09a9f97d9408bb25ce

Here again is the third link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_subincision

I think either Turnbull or the NT government set up the RC after that tv episode about kids in detention centres.

leoj.
Don't know why the third link is not showing up in red. TRy goog;pmg penile subincision--Wikipedia.

Banjo,

My anti-ads screening was at work. I opened the first and third, thank you. That was enough revulsion for today.

Like you I am constantly surprised and dismayed by the politicians, academics and senior bureaucrats who turn a blind eye and even run spin to counter any disclosure. That is being 'Progressive', apparently.

Nothing there where Triggs was concerned either.

Talk with country health workers and police and stories of young aboriginal children suffering sexually transmitted diseases, neglect and abuse surface.

I am heartened that you and some others are still fighting the good fight. Sadly you will not be helped by the ABC and SBS who have a vested interest in promoting and furthering the prevailing political correctness, particularly where multiculturalism is concerned.

One wonders how politicians can sleep at night.

"One wonders how politicians can sleep at night"

For most of them there is not a quid in it.

Dear Banjo,

Child protection should be everyone's responsibility.

In the NT children will only be protected when
everyday citizens will take personal responsibility
for child protection. It has to start with the
communities themselves. If no one is concerned about
the children in any of their communities then
nothing is going to change. Communities need to look at
the issues, not look away and pretend it is not happening.
If things are not reported - what can the Royal Commission
actually do? From my understanding they can only act
once a report has been made - and then they can proceed
to gather evidence.

If things are not reported - the problem will continue to
escalate.

cont'd ...

Dear Banjo,

And the problem is a very big one as the following
link shows:

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-sexual-abuse#axzz41ZAhZU61

Foxy,
Yes, I agree entirely. It is absolutely useless trying to ignore the issue and blaming the messenger like what happened the other day. You know when I saw the female barrister accusing the former minister on the video, I could see people in the background nodding in agreement with her. They have a serious problem and it must be acknowledged to start with. Why can't they see that?

Years ago, when Mal Brough introduced the NT Intervention I was hopeful there would be change, but it now appears little has changed. Although sometimes I again get hopeful when Joe tells us about the number of aboriginal young going to Uni. Surely more educated people must help one would think.

I don't have any ideas about what can be done but I am hopeful that Nana and Joe may put forward some comments as they both seem to speak common sense. I believe the blame game must end and the communities themselves have to lead the way in stopping the child abuse. Culture is very hard to change. We cannot even get politicians to act on FGM and underage marriages in some migrant communities down here in the South let alone act on cultural issues in remote areas.

like very unpalatable practices in Islamic culture so much is ignored and a blind eye turned to Indigeneous culture. Many in the industry know the general public would be horrified if it was made public what goes on. The getup clowns are to busy with fake news than real issues.

Banjo, the practise of sub incision seems to have died out a couple of decades ago. I haven't heard of it happening for quite some time now.
But circumcision of boys without anaesthetic in the bush still happens as a part of initiation, although some mothers do request their sons get done in hospital under sterile conditions before the ceremony happens. I'm in two minds about this practise because although it's painful it's not mutilation in the sense that we know it and the end result is no different to millions of men around the world who were circumcised as babies and in the traditional communities initiation is a huge part of a boy's life. He cannot become an elder if he hasn't been initiated.
The only problem I have with it is the risk of infection which has increased due to the use of nonbiodegradable goods in the law ground, things like open tins of food left lying around, which attracts flies. If a boy does get infected he is not allowed to leave the lawground for treatment and if a male doctor can't be induced to travel to that law ground then the infected boy risks permanently distortion and damage to the penis and urethra.
I think if they wish to retain this practise there needs to be health education done by male nurses or doctors to address the infection issue.

The issue of underage wives is something the old men have fought to retain and it's still done, albeit as quietly as possible so as not to attract attention. They get away with it if the girl doesn't become pregnant. If a young teen does present with a pregnancy then child protection is supposed to investigate but there doesn't seem to be many questions if the girl is from a remote community. Suddenly the girl and her family can't speak English properly, the interpreter, who is always from a remote community herself, says what she thinks the authorities want to hear and nothing ever happens to the men.
Sexual abuse is different again. The women are all aware it happens, they don't like and a few do what they can in small ways to protect girls. Things like making young girls wear three layers of clothes below the waist. Underpants, topped by cycle shorts, topped by leggings or other shorts at night.
But they stop short of denouncing men or even discussing the issue. When I lived in the community it was a taboo topic even though a couple of women had put padlocks on their daughters bedroom doors.
Whilst people in the general community can't understand how this is allowed to happen, once you live in these places you learn how difficult it is for the women. If they say anything they are subject to violent payback, families end up with generations of feuding, especially if the man goes to prison.
If the man is from a powerful family then the accusers suffer ongoing disadvantage in the community by being ignored for any jobs, better housing etc.
The alternative is to move to a town, where they have to wait many years for housing, may not have any family support system and living on the fringes or in crowded houses, are still subjecting the girls to a very high risk of abuse from town men.
I don't have many answers. My heart breaks for these girls.

Below I have put an extract from an notes written by a woman who runs a sex education program in remote communities, funded by an NGO. I met her a couple of years ago and she was horrified by some of the events happening in these communities, as told her by women and children, once she had gained their trust. And technology is aiding the men now. For instance she told of how one man had been discovered using an iPad to groom children by showing them porn.
As you can see from this extract, it's not only aboriginal people covering up

"I attended the police station on the Tuesday morning to train the three officers there� The feedback from the officer in charge was a little disturbing� He informed me that he would never hear about any child abuse in the community� If there was anything going on, the community would deal with it their own way� He went on the say that there was a 13-year-old in the community who had a baby, but that it was OK because she had married the man she was promised to�
I was also disturbed by the attitude of the clinic manager, who was very defensive� He wanted to know whose permission I had to be there, had the program been approved by Aboriginal people? When
I brought up the subject of who was teaching the students about Respectful Relationship and Sex Education, he said it wasn’t their job� One of the doctors said that he had talked about STIs with the young men about three years ago� I also asked “Who is talking with the young adults about how they negotiate what they will and won’t do? For example – performing anal sex� “The clinic manager told me that I needed to understand that many of these girls were promised and that they would do as they were told�
The staff at the high school advised that the students were also not receiving this type of education at school as it was not included in the curriculum�

Big Nana

if you were in a position of power the Indigenous people would be much better off. Jacinta Price seems to be a treasure not afraid to call things as they are. Thank you.

I believe that sites such as the one mentioned earlier here, that seeks to embed a misleading narrative of a wonderful, idyllic, 'natural', 'preserved' Australia (very Disney-like), populated by a 'noble earth-caring people' who were ruthlessly 'invaded' by 'Whites', and that is where all of the problems began, a Paradise contaminated, destroyed and eventually lost, do far more HARM than good.

For starters, it perpetuates the power of those child abusers, men and women, but especially the bullying, child-abusing men who stand to lose most from children being educated and realising their full potential under the FULL protection of Australian law.

Secondly, the black armband narrative DISEMPOWERS Aboriginals.

I cannot even begin to imagine why any would want to put their stake in multiculturalism selfishly ahead of the present and future good of aboriginal infants (or any children for that matter, referring pointedly to Muslim girls).

Those men and the women who might have a stake in foul practices, cultural, traditional or recently invented by asserted as 'secret business' that go against in Australian law and infringe on the liberties of children in particular, MUST NOT be presented with ready-made rationalisations and excuses. They must be held accountable for their own choices and just to add, ignorance is no excuse for a crime.

So many indigenous with legal training from fine sandstone Australian universities and overseas as well. They are so adept and quick at finding a myriad of ways to use available Australian law to advantage themselves and the present indigenous power brokers.

But these clever, wigged 'rights' lawyers are so painfully slow to provide any encouragement and free community legal services or private pro bono, for victims to claim compensation from the indigenous perpetrators and the guardians who were supposed to be looking out for them.

That is what it will take, isn't it? For some victims to do to their indigenous persecutors what the victims of (say) Catholic priests and the RC Church are doing, which is to finally get some justice and improve the lot for children today and those not born yet.

Big Nana,
Thank you for your comments.

I am heartened by your comments about sub incision, I shudder to think about that being done. As for circumcision, I am neutral about its need but, if traditional, it may lead to it being done much earlier by medicos.

Having an interest in eliminating FGM, I can readily see the problems in getting convictions for underage marriages and sexual abuse in small communities. The state politicians feel smug about making FGM illegal but do nothing to enforce the laws. Then when a rare case comes along the judiciary hand out token sentences like 'home detention' and 'suspended' jail.

I am afraid that any progress will be a long, long process. We can just keep bringing it to public attention and the girls continue to suffer.

Thank you again for your comments and passing on your knowledge and experiences.

Hi Big Nana,

Thank you for your valuable insights. Those problems don't occur so much in 'southern' settings, but you touch on something which is very pervasive: " ... If the man is from a powerful family then the accusers suffer ongoing disadvantage in the community by being ignored for any jobs, better housing etc..."

Let's be clear: there is (and perhaps always has been) probably no such thing as Aboriginal 'community': there are powerful families, and much less powerful families, and very weak families and individuals. Usually powerful families, the ones who grab all the best jobs, houses, etc., are the most established. In 'communities' they seem to come in pairs, an uneasy and chronically fractious alliance of dominant families marrying into each other, and keeping out and/or down anybody from weaker, smaller or more recent families.

'Community' is an outsider, Utopian view, of blow-ins and people who turn a blind eye to 'community' life. The realities are feuding, back-biting, rumour-mongering, long-held grievances, vendettas, and payback, with the weaker being targeted, often young boys and girls. Can Aboriginal 'communities' ever be genuine communities ? I don't know. I don't think so.

Best wishes,

Joe

I agree with everything that most of you have said herein. We should remember, the terms of reference for any sort of Judicial Inquiry or Royal Commission, comes within the purview of the government, who precisely establishes the actual 'Terms of Reference' of that Commission. Although the presiding Royal Commissioner his/herself can request their terms of reference to be broadened? And we all know how morally corrupt and cunning respective governments can be. There's often a saying; when a RC is called, the presiding government already knows Commission's findings?

3rd time lucky ? Computers, who needs them ? While we're on the subject, the 2016 Census suggested that the Indigenous population rose from 548,000 to around 649,000. This included about 73,000 births since 2011. So not only did nobody pass away but around thirty thousand people came back to life.

OR there has been, as in previous Censuses, massive re-identification. Given the mortality between 2011 and 2016, this could have been as high as 80,000, perhaps more. So re-identification out-paced births. Age-groups aged 5 and over increased in number, by an average of around 11 %.

The point of all this is that conclusions and predictions about indigenous population are utterly useless. One feature however stands out: as in recent Censuses, and adjusting for the emergence of people not counted in previous Censuses, the number of births seems to have declined with each count, by about 1 % p.a.

Also, the greatest population increases have been along the east coast, in the cities. Population seems to be moving from remote settlements to small towns, then to bigger towns, then to cities. The demands arising from the Uluru Statement (what we know of them) seem to assume the reverse: that the Indigenous people want, en masse, to move from the cities to remoter areas. So aspirations and realities seem to be in conflict. In such situations, realities usually win.

Joe

Big Nana and Joe,
A further question if I may.

The initiation of girls? Does the practice of deflowering with a stick and the tearing of the vulva and anus, followed by gang rape still occur, and if so an estimate of occurrance?

If this occurs is medical restoration usually carried out?

I read about this long ago and considered it a practice long past.

Aboriginal communities are seriously disfunctional, but it is politically incorrect to
say so.

They'd rather blame while people for all their bad behaviour.

It's the same with black lives matter, in America, then they have the hide to blame the whites for not stopping the 5,000 murders in black communities every year.
No wonder the police are inclined to shoot first and ask questions later, when they know how bad the gun murders amongst blacks are.

It's about time black people started to own up to their bad behaviour, they are like
children the way they try to blame whites for their bad behaviour. Sure they were badly done by, by whites 150 or more years ago, but the choices they are making today are their own. Nobody else's.
The whites are sick of hearing their excuses.
At first they were given much sympathy, but it has worn very thin as they continue to
act so badly.
The trouble is the more the whites tune out because they are no longer buying the victim excuses any more, the louder they get.
We understand what happened in the past but we don't understand why they are still
being non accountable for their bad behaviour in the present day.

Banjo: Surely more educated people must help one would think.

The Educated Aboriginals are indoctrinated with hate the Whiteman & push for more money for themselves.

Foxy: what can the Royal Commission actually do? From my understanding they can only act once a report has been made - and then they can proceed to gather evidence.
&
OSW: We should remember, the terms of reference for any sort of Judicial Inquiry or Royal Commission, comes within the purview of the government, who precisely establishes the actual 'Terms of Reference' of that Commission.

Terms of Reference = What you can & cannot ask. Dates, before & after questions aren’t allowed to be asked. Direct questions & a raft of others.
The reason for this is so Justice is seemed to be Served & nothing is achieved.

Cherful: Aboriginal communities are seriously dysfunctional, but it is politically incorrect to say so. They'd rather blame while people for all their bad behaviour.

Exactly the aim of the Educated Aboriginals.

In any dysfunctional system ALL are deriving some benefit, even obvious victims, and ALL have a vested interest in retaining it as it is and push back against change.

It follows that independent external intervention is necessary, although the request for it, direct or indirect, may come from within the system.

In this case there is the smaller system which is 'indigenous' (PC that some Aborigines object to), make that aboriginal and the larger system, which is all of Australia. But problems have gone on for so long that the issues and politics have become very murky.

Murky too because of the prevailing political correctness which while originally well intended, got off the rails decades ago.

It is poisonous for politicians, who stay well clear. Or say what the ABC and others want to hear. All have a vested interest in stereotyping. But would (say) the ABC and SBS with a stake in victimhood to justify its allocations, be wanting to change mounts now and return to its former independent stance even where it realises it was too superficial, naive or wrong in its secondary editorial policy that drives shows like Q&A?

The only way out of the mess as I (as a lay person) see it, is for Aboriginal women to realise that they must put their fear and embarrassment to one side, find support with one another and challenge the 'system'. Their struggle is much the same as that facing Muslim women who seek a reformation of Islam, but both are limiting themselves and should cast off and start anew.

To add, it is the lot of victims to feel the acute embarrassment and humiliation at the state they find themselves in. They must realise their common suffering and that can help. It must be a grassroots movement and practical. They will enjoy the support of mainstream Australia.

Obviously the feminists have no interest and are the wrong'uns anyhow for this task, with their nasty politics and stake in continuing and extending victimhood.

So a grassroots movement by women, but not excluding men, and facilitated and supported by champions from outside (external).

A tough job considering how many might stand to lose their seats on the gravy train for a much better life but with a real work to do. Including the fleas on fleas, including professionals and academics, don't forget them either.

Tough too for the media and politicians who might be obliged to be frank with the public they habitually label and treat dismissively as 'punters'.

Hi there JAYB...

You are absolutely correct my friend, the 'terms of reference' are established by government, although the Royal Commissioner himself (through 'Counsel assisting' the R.C.)can ask if they can be broadened, in order he can better adduce evidence that may have an important bearing on the Commissioner's findings. Again, that's up to the government?

Banjo, in all these years I have heard nothing about initiation of girls apart from our local tribes custom of knocking out the girls two top front teeth when her brother went through initiation. And even that hasn't been happening for decades.
I also have seen accounts of genital mutilation but cannot vouch for any veracity. It may well be that, like cannabalism and infanticide,the negative reaction from whites was so extreme they abandoned the practise in order to escape punishment or rejection from missions.
I do know that cannabalism existed because apart from documentation I've spoken to people who engaged in it in the early 1900s. But it didn't last long after white settlement. Likewise, infanticide did exist but after settlement seems to have moved more into passive abandonment of a new baby rather than the deliberate murder. Perhaps they felt that was a more acceptable way to retain the custom. Certainly hundreds of abandoned babies were rescued and adopted out, the last one I know about was about 15 years ago in the NT.

JayB,

There re currently around 44,000 Indigenous university graduates across Australia. The majority have studied mainstream courses: only a very small minority currently study Indigenous-focussed courses. The Indigenous Industry can soak up only so many, usually unqualified family and friends.

Those graduate numbers will double by 2030. Get used to it.

Joe

Loudmouth: only a very small minority currently study Indigenous-focussed courses.

Yes & do they cause trouble. I have a young fella comes here every so often after he's been to (Sunday School) Not really but it's the local Aboriginal Centre for teaching young impressionable kids about the horrors the "Whites" did to the Aboriginal People. His Grandmother plays cards with my wife so he comes here after he's been to Aboriginal Class. He is always wound right up & full of "Hate the Whities" after he's been brainwashed by these fellars who have done the Uni Indigenous Course.

Now for something on a slightly happier note.

I watched "Australian Story" on the ABC on Monday evening.
Being NAIDOC (National Aboriginal and Islander Day
Observance Committee) week - (first Sunday in July until
the following Sunday) "Australian Story" featured the work
of the remarkable - Uncle Ossie Cruse - the quiet leader
for Indigenous Rights. He's led an amazing life and is
still hard at work with young people today. The following
link explains and is well worth a read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-03/uncle-ossie-cruse-the-quiet-leader-for-indigenous-rights/8653236

JayB,

I have my own issues with Indigenous Studies, mainly that it has to rely so much on unsupported assertions and mistruths to maintain its Narrative. It's very depressing that its beneficiaries, spokespeople and academics and Industry functionaries, seem to be totally uninterested in truth and evidence.

So, yes, it is having a very negative influence on some Indigenous people (and of course, gullible whites, who usually keep a distance from 'real' Indigenous people), but the great majority of Indigenous graduates are struggling to make it in the real world of opportunity. And it certainly isn't easy for them, substantially due to the incompetence of the Industry. How's that work ?

Well, for a start, there are supposed to be Indigenous quotas - but not so fast ! The 2 or 3 % set aside means that, in effect, Indigenous applicants are shut out from the other 97 or 98 % of possible jobs. Many of the jobs that they CAN apply for are in the Industry, like it or not, and these are available only to Indigenous people who have been vetted for family and clique reliability. If an applicant is not 'reliable', then they can walk the streets.

As well, in some fields, more manipulable and unqualified ('real Blackfellas') are preferred over graduates. I know of one qualified conservationist who had to pretend he was unqualified to get a job.

That's how it goes for most 'Educated Aboriginals'.

Joe

To get back to topic:

Could it be that the Royal Commission is not so ‘unaware’, that it has quickly come up against the brutal realisation that – as in all traditional societies – Aboriginal traditional society is riven with violence, patriarchy, conservatism and anti-democracy ? And that the people in remote settlements honestly, if naively, believe that the outside world will ‘demand-share’ all its bounty with them, forever ? Including child-minding and -feeding ? Has the RC realised the truth of Bill Leak’s cartoon ?

Do people in remote settlements understand the world they have decided to be in ? Are people so individualist that, if the dreadful pathologies are happening to them, they don't notice them or their effects on whole 'community' ? Do traditionally-oriented people have a concept of 'community' at all, or just 'family' ?

Or do they think that the 'Government' should solve all their self-made problems ? Except of course, for their ownership of their children - do they think of children as property, and not as obligation, responsibility and human and family duty ? Hence the outrage when grossly-neglected children have to be taken into care, by State agencies as 'parent of last resort' ?

Bill Leak, we need you now more than ever :(

Joe

the royal commission is a massive con
no one charged, no one locked up
Pell is back why not question him in person?
The RC refused to pursue inquiries into the abuse into govt run child welfare institutions like Tamworth and other hell holes.
The RC refused to pursue inquiries into sexual abuse in mental hospitals
The royal commission is a con

chrisgaff: The royal commission is a con

Of course it is. They all are. Just going on the way the Questions are asked & answered. The questions are never direct & the answers are always deflections. It's all deliberately planned that way so nothing ever gets done & no-one get in the s#it.