Following the latest terrorism atrocity in Manchester, a counter terrorism 'expert', Dr. Clark Jones is unconvinced that the perpetrators were driven by Islam, but waffled on about 'kids' and 'anti-social' behaviour.

If this bloke is an 'expert' on anti-terrorism he should be sacked from his taxpayer-funded sinecure at ANU. There could be no one supposed to be advising authorities on counter terrorism more useless than this person.

this bloke would not get a job with anu or abc if he was not an Islamic apologist.

Expert: 'X' for the unknown quantity and 'spert' for a drip under pressure.

For anyone wondering what ttbn is actually talking about: http://www.4bc.com.au/podcast/manchester-terror-attack

--

ttbn,

It’s no wonder you never provide links to these articles you tell us about. People might find out just how much you’re exaggerating.

All Dr Jones said was that he wouldn’t want to get too bogged down in the religious side of the attack (wise words, given that there are always other factors as well), and that, while such attacks are framed in religion, there are a lot of underlying issues which drive these kids to do what they do (also true).

The closest Dr Jones came to expressing scepticism over the role of Islam was to say that he didn’t think the number of mosques in the area was the issue, and that it’s probably more to do with larger political issues across Europe at the moment.

Vague stuff, sure, but he made it clear that he was reluctant to comment in too much detail until the police had more information. Which is also wise given how little homegrown terrorists seem to know about Islamic doctrine in most cases, and how non-existent their mosque attendance often is.

You should try a bit of research into radicalisation, ttbn. You might actually learn something. Here, I'll get you started:

http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=radicalisation+and+homegrown+terrorism&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

AJ Philips,

Blow it out your bum! Do you really believe that what you say matters? All you do is rubbish other people. You are the most miserable piece of ordure that I have ever come across. I usually ignore your vicious crap. You are the type of thug that bullies people on Facebook and Twitter, which is where you belong. You can carry on hissing, sneering and whining as long as you like. It will not make a scrap of difference to what I think or say; and, with any luck, you'll choke on your own bile. You are to be pitied, you poor silly thing.

Dear AJ Phillips,

I'm not surprised.

Thank you.

Only if I can back it up with evidence and/or reason, ttbn.

<<Do you really believe that what you say matters?>>

The fact that I might be the one saying it is irrelevant.

<<All you do is rubbish other people.>>

Not at all. I have some rather productive and civil discussions with many others on OLO. You’re just saying this because it makes it easier for you to brush what I say off when I discredit your nonsense.

<<You are the most miserable piece of ordure that I have ever come across.>>

On the contrary, I’m quite happy most of the time. It appears that you are the only one here who is miserable at the moment.

<<I usually ignore your vicious crap.>>

Vicious? I’m not the one carrying on like a pork chop.

The loadedness of your statement aside, though, I certainly hope you do. We did have an agreement, after all. But rest assured, I don’t respond to you for your sake. I do it because I care about the truth, and so I will continue to discredit and debunk your rubbish for so long as you continue to post it.

Until next time...

The most effective terrorists are the media. By reporting this story they bring about more terror than the people who place bombs could ever dream of.

They seek to scare people and they seek attention - the media should not give it to them. To beat terror, such affairs ought to be hushed, never reported, never commented on.

AJ Philips,

Oh, I know you will continue your raving, and I will go back to ignoring you, which is the usual state off affairs. And yes, you do seem to get along with some people who have similar personalities and nasty streaks - steeleredux and Paul 1405: you really are bunch of charmers, hating everybody, including yourselves. I am very pleased that I am nothing like you

Anyway, emotive misinterpretations of what experts say aside, I can understand how the words of experts might frustrate people who don’t know much about radicalisation and need something or someone to blame (and I don’t say that mockingly either, the need to blame someone or something is human nature). Islam provides a simple answer, and many crave simple answers.

I don’t think people like ttbn set out to deliberately twist what experts say. I think they let their anger and emotions interpret what is being said as an attempt to distance Islam from such attacks, because they themselves want to blame it entirely. After all, Islam is imported and we all love to blame immigrants. Especially the funny-looking ones. Politicians know this only too well when they need something to deflect from their own shortcomings.

So how much can we blame Islam?

For foreign terrorists? A lot. Apologists like Reza Aslan will try to attribute blame to cultural factors alone, but for many countries, the culture and Islam are inextricably linked. For homegrown terrorists, the answer will vary greatly from case to case, which is why this Dr Jones was reluctant to comment in too much detail until the police had more information. But the answer will lie somewhere between ‘not very much’ to ‘a lot’ (and usually closer to the ‘not very much’ end of the spectrum).

If there is anything we can consistently blame Islam for (and I’m genuinely trying to give the more conservative folk a satisfying answer here), it’s that it has provided a deadlier outlet for those feeling disenfranchised, and a more attractive outlet for those who would be inclined to commit massacres and bombings (c.f. the Oklahoma City bombing). I say “more attractive” because it provides a larger community of fellow travellers for those who crave a group to identify with.

For anyone genuinely interested in radicalisation and its causes, there are thousands of scholarly research articles in the link I provided ttbn.

Yuyutsu,

I get your point about the media – they are the cause of many, many problems; but I don't see how they could not report terror attacks. They are pretty hard to ignore.

ttbn,

I’m sorry you interpret reasoned argument as a nasty streak. It’s understandable, though, given that you are unable to counter the arguments of those with whom you disagree with anything other than insults. You sound like a very unhappy person.

By the way, I get along fine with many whom I consistently disagree with too. The trick, for both parties, is to just not be so vicious, bitter, and hateful. Try responding to others with reason argument instead of insults for once in your life. You’ll find it goes a long way and it feels great, too.

the experts(code for leftist who are usually pig headed secularist) mocked and ridiculed Abbott when claiming he could stop the boats. No there were ' push factors' and many other 'complicated' issues. Once they got egg all over their faces instead of showing a little humility they then changed their mocking tone. In comes Triggs with her holier than thou distortians and lies. The last restort that these leftist ' experts' use are tantrums such as we see from the getup clowns and violent demonstrators throwing hissy fits when Trump was elected. Then we have the cry babies who said they would of voted if they knew BREXIT was going to happen. You are right TTBN. Turns out the ' experts' are just bound to a very sick failed narrative whether it be immigration, Islamic terrorism or the global warming joke. They have dumbed down many people in the process. The like of AJ are about as good as they can come up with.

People do get very emotional about certain issues.
Especially issues whose subject matter often involves
issues of deep human and moral concern.

My husband and I had a bit of a disagreement this morning
over the Manchester bombing incident. He wanted me to post
on this discussion the fact that:

"As a result of the Manchester terror attack - governments
should register all potential suspects to carry
identification cards or be instantly deported or imprisoned.
Time has come to act."

My views did not quite agree with his and I tried to explain
to him why I didn't think this would work. He ended up
leaving the room quite upset.

So here I am. People can get upset over something they feel
strongly about. That's the point that I am trying to make.
However, name calling and personal insults only makes things
worse. And, words do hurt as I found out this morning.
We should be mature enough to accept views that don't agree
with our own, especially on a discussion forum of social and
political debate such as this one.

you are half right Foxy. The reality is that holding to a narrative does not save lives. Facing reality does. People getting upset over reality,like the teachings of Islam is a good thing. People frothing at the mouth about fake rubbish like gw is wasted energy and a distraction from saving lives. People can continue to bury their heads in the sand and appear ' nice' but often it is just cowards who helped create a problem and have no guts to address it. It is true that Islamic terrorism can only now be minnimised in countries like Australia because of our extremly dumb immigration program where anyone speaking reality has been demonised over the last 50 years. Many good immigrants who have come from countries where they have suffered due to Islam can't believe our stupidity. Our national broadcasters push on diversity is stuffing this country very quickly.

Dear runner,

We do have laws in this country that we are all
expected to abide by. No exceptions. And those
that break those laws should bear the full force
of the law.

If this is Islamist inspired, even a 'progressive' feminist would have to admit that the girls and young women of the UK have been copping it for just being normal women and human beings (which Islam expresses doubt about).

Islamists have utter contempt and hatred for what the young women of the UK and the western democracies represent.

Of course the Progressives and feminists must step forward and accept some accountability for their failed idealism and social experimentation. What about the Labour Party too? What about the other disgusting abuses of young women, such as the sex trafficking and drugging of young vulnerable women that has gone on for years and still prevails?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

Foxy,
That spouse story did come across as a deliberately-crafted and outrageous Strawman, especially in the way you used it. Maybe if your spouse could post his own, instead of asking you to do it for him.

I now wonder how many terrorist attacks it will take or how big a bomb it will have to be to get our politicians to take positive action to protect our citizens. 9/11 obviously was not big enough with only 3000 dead. Looks like it will take a terrorist nuke attack to wake the politicians up.

Everyone can see the problem is ISLAM, yet the polys are deaf, dumb, blind and too stupid to see it. The very least that should be done is stop further muslim entry. 20-25% of muslims hold radical views which is far too high for the safety of our citizens. If muslims cannot get the radicals out the we have to get the muslims out.

Looks like there is only one politician in Aus with the practical nouse to see the problem and the guts to act on it. The two major parties are absolutely hopeless. I am getting sick of their platitudes and excuses. Little kids being deliberately blown apart is too much.

I cannot say that all Muslims in my acquaintance are like that.

Maybe immigration has to be much more discriminating in where they take them from. Why has 'diversity' been allowed to be the tail that shakes the immigration policy dog? Who is responsible for that aberration?

It was outrageous for instance that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is an activist for women's advancement and a supporter of the reformation of Islam, was obliged to cancel her visit to NZ and to Australia.

What is most concerning are the 'Progressives' who refuse to support Muslims who are trying to reform Islam from within. The reformers are good people who need every bit of help and encouragement they can get.

leoj,

I'm not surprised that you did not understand the
point that I was trying to make in my story regarding
my husband. However, you have proven the point that
I was trying to make.

As for my husband posting on this forum. He would not
have the patience. I have asked him to contribute
many times in the past but he tells me that he prefers
to keep his blood-pressure down.

Foxy,

To my knowledge, no-one here or in the media has seriously suggested that, "governments should register all potential suspects to carry identification cards or be instantly deported or imprisoned".

That came from you.

It was an outrageous Strawman.

leoj,

I told my husband the same thing.

However, he got very upset about it.

Hence to prove the point that people do get upset
about issues they feel strongly about I decided to
tell this story on this discussion. I thought it
appropriate because of the arguments that arose
between ttbn, and AJ.

I won't be passing on your comments to my husband.
He's upset enough as it is.

cont'd ...

leoj,

Why are you not making any comment on Banjo's suggestions
about totally banning Muslim immigration? Not a peep
out of you. Banjo's suggestion is far more drastic than
anything my husband suggested.

It was and remains, a red herring. Back to the thread.

leoj,

Ducking and weaving yet again.

You accuse others of falsehoods, yet you
can't man up when questioned. Typical
bully and cowardly tactics accordingj to
my husband.

Dear Foxy,

I'm sorry to hear the disagreement with your husband became uncomfortable. It sounds like you both have strong views which stem from a care and empathy for those impacted by this tragedy.

The images and thoughts of children's lifeless bodies are highly emotive and demand in many of us a call to action, something I think is right and proper.

The problem is that in some such a call becomes a desire for revenge and extremist action. There are plenty of images of dead and wounded children from the conflict in Syria circulating on the internet, plenty of fodder for those who would inspire young men to terrible deeds.

For instance another 44 children this month in Syria due to US air strikes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-war-us-air-strikes-civilian-death-toll-deadliest-on-record-isis-donald-trump-a7751911.html

We seem to be in a deadly cycle of violence, one that seems intent on claiming innocent lives.

One of my few hopes for the Trump administration was that he would take on Wahhabism. The sight of him bowing, scraping and uttering motherhood statements as he signed off on billions of dollars of arms sales just made me depressed. The Saudi role in so much of the Islamic terrorism is beyond dispute and needs to be countered.

In someways I think your husband's reaction was entirely justifiable, the only problem is without action in so many other areas it may only serve to escalate alienation and risk.

We need broad and committed thinkers to be addressing this issue. We do not have any measure of either in Trump.

Foxy,
Your husbands suggestion is far more severe than mine. How would he identify the 'potential suspects'? Is he saying ALL muslims would have to carry an identity card or be deported? I have never said anything about deportation or imprisonment without trial.

My suggestion is that we do not allow entry of any more muslims as immigrants or refugees. They breed you know, that is how we get the 'home grown' radicals.

Someone herein spoke negatively about the media. Yesterday morning while I was in the Doctor's surgery, they have a TV ostensibly to mollify the 'inpatient' patients still waiting well beyond their scheduled appointment?

Thereon were these two 'fetching' young ladies and a follicular challenged fellow, all of whom were apparently presenters, together with this 'expert' telling us all about the Manchester Bombing.

There of course would be many polite interruptions from these two ladies, to render this expert their help, to complete his sentence and add to his opinion(s) for him. Interestingly none of the presenters or their 'expert' had the slightest notion what was going on in Manchester, post this bombing, other than what was being presented on the CNN News.

It was similar to the Lindt Cafe. During the prosecution of that Operation, all the backyard experts were saying how it all should be done, even what weapons and tactics should be employed. And often criticizing the processes and tactical structures used by police to extract and ultimately free the hostages safely.

And what exactly do we expect the Media's role to be? It's to faithfully report the truth. Not to provide opinion and embellish upon that truth, in order to obtain good copy.

Recently I was asked to re-read over two chapters in a non-fiction book which I, and my old squad were solely featured. The two incidences concerned, were undoubtedly faithfully reproduced and true, one of the outcomes (first chapter) was definitely not. Yet that chapter erroneously reflected otherwise?

When I again queried the author for a second time, he stated:- In his, his editor and the Publisher's opinion, it would sell much better, to exercise a bit of imagination and modify the outcome to a more pleasing and favourable conclusion; than what in reality was truthfully our failure, and from that failure, came an avoidable tragedy. I'm afraid the media has an awful lot to answer for. Who knows they might be brought to account one day?

Dear Steele,

Thank you for such a well reasoned response and for
understanding the points I was trying to make.
But you're right. We need to look at the bigger picture
and try to come up with more appropriate solutions to
this complex problem.

Dear Banjo,

My husband did not mention Muslims as such. He was
referring to potential terrorists not just religious
fundamentalists.

Tut,tut,ttbn.

Dear O Sung Wu,

The media has a lot to answer for.
Their focus seems to be more on what's
newsworthy than anything else.

We need broad and committed thinkers to be addressing this issue. We do not have any measure of either in Trump.

Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday,

Talk about pot kettle black. Ideologically driven claptrap, by the Chamberlin's of today.

Come the Muslim takeover it may not be all bad. With the homosexuals, womens libbers, green ratbags, the ABC & the academics all gone very quickly, we might actually prosper.

The more I think about it, the better it gets, where do I sign up?

The funniest thing is, Steely would have to then approve of me. Now that is a good joke.

isn't it amazing how all the celebrities that are anti Trump, pro illegal immigrants, western hating are now showing disgust for the fruit of their stupidity. The young girl singer from America was one of these. I see she has rushed back to the country she contributes to being trashed for safety.

On another tack, an example of experts.

I once took the entire board of the Great Barrier Marine Park Authority, & a bunch of their hangers on & experts, out to the reef off the Whitsundays, on our 29 Metre International cat. Talking to them, & listening to some of the discussions I realised that at least half had never seen the reef up close. Almost 40% had only seen the reef from commercial air flights.

4 had spent some time at Lizard research station, & one at Herron, but the rest were Townsville based academics or researched in onshore fish tanks.

On the way out the chairperson asked me what the boats like ours would do when there was no more reef to see. They assured me that the Crown of Thorns was already decimating the area, & would be down to Lady Musgrave in less than a year.

When I assured them, a history professor by the way, that I had dive instructors running escorted dives 4 times a week from this boat, & they had found only three crown of thorns in the last 6 months, I was told my divers obviously didn’t know what one looked like. The last thing they wanted was truthful information to disrupt their story.

This is just so typical of the academic expert the ABC so love to give air time.

I see our logie winning Waleed has been awarded a phd for his views on Islam. It would be no different having a Catholic priest doing a thesis on paedophile although I doubt whether he would get the gong. Different rules apply to academics that tell what the narrative demands.

Gawd! Another one of Hasbeen’s trusty anecdotal testimonials. Fully controlled for potential bias, naturally.

Why bother telling us your stories, Hasbeen? How about you use them to earn yourself a Nobel Prize instead?

News is on holidays. Abbott had a great expert on his side when he was elected. I thought Hasbeen would be all for expurts, after that exabition of scumbagery.

Hi there FOXY...

I hope you and yours are all well. I recall when I was just out of my teens people would tell me that journalism was a truly noble profession, and a guardian of literary morality. To become a journalist, one required high marks in all components of English, together with strong attributes in History, economics and even basic law (jurisprudence).

It's funny, when I was in the Army, a girl I was keeping company with was very keen to study the necessary subjects best suited for pursuing a career in Journalism. Here we are now nearly sixty years from those times; I often wonder whether she realised her ambition and became a media hack? I most certainly hope not, she was far too nice and too poised to become a mendacious 'b.tch'? Though far better than becoming a policewoman I suppose?

AJ Philips, how typical of the academic.

Fingers jammed hard into their ears, to avoid hearing any of those nasty facts.

You clowns are going to wonder where it came from when the great unwashed have finally had enough & lower the boom.

I’m not an academic, Hasbeen, if that’s what you’re saying. But thanks for the compliment.

<<Fingers jammed hard into their ears, to avoid hearing any of those nasty facts.>>

Who? Me? Now that is the pot calling the kettle black, given your frequent appeals to conspiracy every time the evidence contradicts your dearly-held beliefs.

Sorry, but you haven’t provided any facts. Just a questionable recollection of events that actually attempts to suggest that some dude driving a boat on the reef is going to know more about it than a marine biologist.

Dear AJ Phillips,

Don't get to fussed about our good old Hasbeen. It is his thing to trot out this guff and when properly challenged on it will say 'all I'm doing is stirring them up' and 'I don't really mean it'. Though it serves as a cloak to allow him to spew his ignorant shallow posturing while maintaining a get out clause.

I used to find it endearing but now more sad.

Anyway I made a comment on another forum about Indonesia going hardline Islamic and made the point that;

Part of this is what you get when you let Saudi money go unanswered. Gillard attempted to mitigate their influence by providing funding to bring hardline schools into the mainstream Indonesia education system. That funding was cut by Abbott. Those who call for no action to be taken in this area may well rue the day.

This was a reply I received;

You're dead right … Steele. I actually reckon it's most of it, the only part of this that is not Saudi money is Indonesian politicians not doing enough to counter or just stop its influence. It's ironic, in the late-80s, early 90s I was a naval officer and as part of my training at the RAN College, I had to work up tactical and strategic appreciations. One of the ones I did was Indonesia. I argued at the time that we may not be able to rely on 1. Pro-western dictators; and, 2. Indonesia remaining dominated by a relatively pluralistic, moderate Islam, in the long term. While I acknowledged that Christianity, Hinduism and even Buddhism has its extremists, I argued at the time that as Indonesia has a Muslim population there is at least the risk of radicalisation

Dear Hasbeen,

It is a little cheeky you accusing anyone of having their “Fingers jammed hard into their ears, to avoid hearing any of those nasty facts” when you have your head so far up your proverbial. You may well have cheered the sight of Trump doing a sword dance but the Saudis most of thinking people recognise them as the head of the snake and are deeply concerned about Wahabbi money putting so many in danger from terrorism. Well I suppose you get to be smug about the price of the petrol you're putting in your tank, which would indeed be higher if we properly boycotted them as we should.

Foxy has thrown in the matter of ID cards. I say, yes, we should all have ID cards. Yes, they can be forged, but so can every other card we have be forged -e.g Australian Medicare cards can be bought online from China. The more ID we have to have, the more likely it is that the shonks will slip up

This thread has moved along rather quickly, I read the first few posts, and realized the terrorists were achieving one of their objective with some of our 'Usual Suspects' on OLO, ranting and raving about the wrong people. Our lads jumped straight in attacking the likes of Dr Clark Jones, instead of the real culprits, the perpetrators of these heinous crimes. Fear tends to divide society and make it weak, something these terrorists need to achieve, if they are to win this war. What we need to do is remain strong and united, comitted to the struggle against terrorism, and not play into the hands of the real enemy.

Hi Foxy, your husband said "As a result of the Manchester terror attack governments should register all potential suspects to carry
identification cards or be instantly deported or imprisoned.
Time has come to act."

Not really a thought out reaction, but is to be expected as people try to counter the fear that this type of atrocity engenders, giving them the realization it can also happen to us, just as it happened in Manchester. As a civil libertarian I cannot agree with the government registering all potential suspects, a rather loose term in itself, who determines who are the potential suspects, the government of course, could mean all who disagree with the government are potential suspects. If registering in not enough, then locking up potential suspects is naturally the next course of action in the fight against, whatever the government sees fit to fight against, could it be you and me?

Is it time to bring in the Army that has fought in the Middle East to seek out ISIS supporters and imprison or deport non citizens?

As Paul1405 says, " What we need to do is remain strong and united, committed to the struggle against terrorism, and not play into the hands of the real enemy".

Is it time to treat them as they would treat us

Is it not also time to require all citizens to shew their faces when in public?

No one should be allowed to be masked in public, unless for approved medical reasons.

I'm totally confused about the registration cards.
My husband thinks I'm an idiot for not agreeing
with him. Maybe I am. Anyway, Paul's right when
he says that when an event such as the one in
Manchester happens and you've got family living
in the UK it does hit home very strongly.

So far, the only thing that terrorises me is the auto-immune response as seen on these pages.

Oh the ' religion of peace'. It has made it much harder to travel, divided communities and now has Foxy and her husband argueing. The sadddest part is that it has created a very hard future for my grandchildren. Thanks to all the multi culturalist for bringing such harmony. Funny enough we have many Buddhist, many Hindus, many Catholics and by and large these have all intergrated or at least been peaceful. Gutless politicians (mainly Christ hating ones) continue on with their mantras unable to cope with the fact that they were totally wrong.

I think all returning fighters or those designated as home grown extremists should wear ankle bracelets with location and recording devices.

can't discriminate SM. Everyone will lose their freedoms to accomodate diversity. Unless of course you are a catholic priest.

runner,

There's nothing wrong with discriminating against people who have demonstrated themselves to be an unacceptable risk to society. That's why we have people in prison as well.

The methods may be debated, but your mockery targets a caricature straw man.

Ideally, no home-grown extremists should be allowed to return. They can't legally be stopped? Top them on their way back. This is a war we are fighting.

' There's nothing wrong with discriminating against people who have demonstrated themselves to be an unacceptable risk to society. '

tell that to the abc or getup clowns AJ. They have evenb been closed to debate as to what is an unacceptable risk to society.

Really, runner? You're rather short on detail there. Care to expand? Links would be appreciated.

' Really, runner? You're rather short on detail there. Care to expand? Links would be appreciated'

just read 95% of Foxy's links AJ and you will get the drift. Then again for someone who denies reason and the obvious I doubt it.

So in other words, runner, you just made it up. I thought so.

Foxy
Sorry I am a little late
For the first time you actually make sense
Id Cards for everyone, pinned to your shirt whenever you are in
a public place.
No card brings instant lockup
It would bring out all the illegal immigrants to start with.
If you have nothing to hide why not an Id Card?
Millions of people already have them.
Every time I enter the government building where I work
as a consultant I have to not only were my photo Id but
have it processed for update.

Dear Chris,

Thank you so much. I'll pass it onto my husband.
It was his idea and he'll be so pleased that
someone else sees the sense in what he's suggesting.

Of course no one will be surprised to see our lefties attacking the messenger, when they have no answer to the facts.

Give over for a while fellers, the format is getting a bit passé

Very amusing, Hasbeen, coming from someone who's responses rarely extend beyond calling someone an academic.

What do you think it is that ttbn and runner do, by the way? Because they certainly never address the arguments of others.

I trust you plan on getting around to admonishing them, too, at some point very soon.

Dear Foxy,

When my kids were younger we had a visit from some German relatives on my wife's side. They had lived in East Germany before unification. There was an interesting exchange that occurred after they happened to show their passports and a funny remark was made about the photographs inside. They asked to see the kid's passports and when they told my children hadn't got them yet they asked to see their domestic papers.

We had to explain that here in Australia there was no requirement to have a photographic ID unless you were driving a vehicle.

They were genuinely shocked and asked amongst other things weren't we afraid of them disappearing.

It was a freedom I had taken for granted but it made me pause and think of just how lucky we are to live in this country. I was both grateful and proud to be an Australian.

People talk about ISIS 'attacking our freedoms' but isn't this is an obvious example. Giving in to fear and forcing mandatory display of Ids in public places means we run the risk of handing them another win, of rewarding terror and I for one don't want to be party to it.

Dear Steele,

Thank You.

I used a very similar argument along your lines with
my husband.

I consider myself very lucky that we live in
this country. We lived in Los Angeles for close to ten
years and had to decide whether to return to Australia
or stay in the US. I've never regretted our choice of
coming home.

My daughter-in-law is German. She and my son plus my two
grandchildren are planning a trip to Europe in July. They
visit Germany every couple of years.

It seems that some members here are thrilled to have Muslim terror since it gives them a pretext to forward their agenda of controlling the population of Australia.

I hardly believe that anyone is truly terrorised by these sporadic bombing events: it's still much more likely to be killed on the road hitting a stray red kangaroo than by a terrorist's actions.

I'm only an old soldier who spent his formative years in "Counter Terrorism" during the heady 1980's when what is now doctrine for both the ADF and state police within Australia was being developed. My 'specialist role' was the repair, handling and training in small arms systems.

As a qualified 'sniper' it is likewise that I know absolutely nothing compared to the eminent experts on the matter of tactics employed. Goliath was killed by a slingshot wielding sniper called David...just as dead as any Taliban killed at 2,500 metres with a Barrett .50

The university "experts" and media buffoons make me absolutely cringe when they articulate their views, opinions and subject matter knowledge (with the benefit) of: the whole electronic whorehouse in full chorus to sing their current Top 40 View on Everything We Need To Know.

In 2003, during the Charles Darwin University Symposium, it took 3 whole days for the assembled 'experts' to come up with the definition of a "terrorist" per se...these were people from all over the world and yet none of them could agree on what a terrorist was. Today it looks no different, perhaps even more muddied are the definitions - why ? Why, because their heads are buried in the sands of political correctness, each and every one too scared to point at the elephant in the room and call it an elephant ! Too busy pandering to this interest group, or that special needs organisation, too concerned that their funding will get cut off if they actually do something and research and publish something of actual worth other than what tune the piper is playing funded by his/her masters.

It isn't Islam, it isn't any other religion, it is mankind's indifference and history unfolding before us.

My "opinion"...it is simply a matter of time before we have a Manchester. We are not prepared, or alert and we are way too complacent here in Australia...."it will never happen here, we're too far away from all that stuff.." kind of thing.

Wake Up Australia !

Dear Albie,

It would be interesting to hear who you think are terrorists.

For instance are the Taliban terrorists?

Steele, a terrorist is anyone with an (opinion, view, philosophy, cause, ideal, moral, 'religion'...whatever) that disagrees with your own and is prepared to articulate that & take it to the next level e.g. self harm, harming another - for that mindset.
Anyone, your next door neighbour, the cat down the road, the postman, each and every one of us could be considered a "terrorist" given the right environment - whatever that may entail individually. Mushrooms thrive in the dark, but only with the right humidity and nutrients, air flow etc.

We all know the phrase: " One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist." Osama Bin Laden was trained, funded and fostered by the US government of the day, look how that went for them ultimately.

No doubt there are many more Bin Ladens out there in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, so it is only a matter of time before these people turn against the US and its allies. Most of these are known quantities. It is the lone wolf attacks which are the most difficult to monitor & collect intelligence on.

In the words of Felix Frankenfurter: "It is not only under Nazi rule that police excesses are inimical to freedom. It is easy to make light of insistence on scrupulous regard for the safeguards of civil liberties when invoked on behalf of the unworthy. It is too easy. History bears testimony that by such disregard are the rights of liberty extinguished, heedlessly at first, then stealthily, and brazenly in the end."

The War on Terror, the War on Drugs...all are another excuse to bring in disharmony under the ruse of totalitarian New World Order government. Perhaps it is the Brexit being considered by the May government which has visited the horror of Manchester upon the UK ?

Steele, don't even think about getting me started on the issue of Indonesian "possibilities". 50 yrs ago, as a sprog sitting on my Dad's knee at various HMAS establishments I would listen to the crusty old CPO's warning about it. That we now host "exchange exercises" with Kopassus and the like makes my blood chill !

Albie Manton in Darwin,
I think you will find it was a CheyTac M200 rather than a Barrett .50
that picked up the new record the other day.
The yanks use the 'intervention' model I believe.
Back when I was playing soldier I used a standard Bren .303 for anything up to a 1000 yards.
This new stuff is shockingly dangerous.

Chris...do these links below help?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-04/world-record-holding-british-sniper-haunted-by-bosnia-war,-ptsd/6522676

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/sas-sniper-kills-isis-terrorist-24km-away-using-worlds-most-powerful-rifle/news-story/2fc227ff89367b4527529769c03150a0

http://newatlas.com/worlds-longest-sniper-kill-247km/14992/

In the right hands a Bren in .303 was used quite effectively as a sniper weapon, but when converted to 7.62 it became what it was designed for, a section weapon, nowhere near as accurate though.

Going back to the thread... experts, I have to laugh and cry at the same time when journo's put their infinite knowledge of everything into print, & nothing so entertaining as reading about the deadly 'Armalite Rifle',"... capable of tearing a human body apart with one shot..." or the "high powered .22"."

Yes, most firearms manufactured today can kill in the wrong hands, even the majority of .177 air rifles, but to misrepresent the facts for a good story? Do we see anti knife rallies down Macquarie Street or demonstrations outside Parliament House because the last death from domestic violence was committed by an ex lover with a Wiltshire 'Stay Sharp'...? Do we read about Mazda MX8's being banned because a drunk driver ran over a mother and her baby in a pram..? Do we see Border Farce & TRG breaking down the front door of a Hindu family in Bexley at 3.00 AM in the morning - because they have a couple of pounds of finely ground flour and a piezo-electric bbq starter, which could quite feasibly be used as an "explosive device"...?

May be that is the only best way he could addressed the issue,who knows?

@Yuyutsu i think the media have their own parts to play too and i think they are doing their best for now. If they did broadcast it how can we know?

@ Foxy thte issue is now is that those in power are trying to proof that they are the law.

Dear Rollyczar,

We don't need to know - why should we?

So we become scared?
So we convert to Islam in an attempt to save ourselves and our families?

Unless there is something concrete that we should do to avert an imminent danger, such as to hide under the table or to take axes with us whenever we go to a concert or similar public events, we better never know about such distressing, yet sporadic, events. It's not only unhelpful - it's damaging.

If you personally cannot prevent it, then leave the work of prevention to the security forces.