HI AJ,

Coming from an atheist and communist family, I never learnt much about Catholicism, but one thing I was told was that many Christians, and I assumed Catholics especially for some reason, were taught that salvation-through-faith was the way to go, and that salvation-through-deeds was vastly inferior, probably a Protestant perversion of god's divine existence and the servile self-abnegation of genuine believers, in their craving for eternal life. It made me feel much more partial towards Protestants.

Reading up on some of the journals of early missionaries here, I was very impressed with their empathy and humanity, even the Catholic ones, like in the Kimberley. Were they bible-bashers ? Of course, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered: bible-bashing sort of goes with the territory. And I do believe that they made huge and positive differences: at the Mission where my wife was born, the original missionary worked himself to death at 47, and without him, much of the culture and language would have disappeared, like it did in other groups who never had any missionaries or missions. Give credit where credit is due :)

Actually, I've never met a missionary who I didn't admire, even love, for their innate goodness and THEIR genuine love of Aboriginal people. And I'm still, and always will be, an atheist.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi AJ,

I went through the Catholic education system in the 50's-60's. A system that relied on unquestioning conformity from both students and
teachers. There was no room for individuality, or freedom of expression. Harsh discipline in the form of corporal punishment was the norm, not only to obtain highly prized academic results, but also to maintain the regimented order of the institution. Most children simply accepted the situation as it existed, and progressed through the system relatively unscathed and without any major problems. I was not such a student, academically well placed, but somewhat rebellious,

//So, if I looked at everything I buy in a supermarket, if it has the 'halal' symbol on it, I'll be paying more for that product ?//

Buggered if I know, Joe. Write to each individual company and ask them direct, or just avoid certified products.

//I didn't know that there were kosher butchers in every abattoirs alongside the halal ones//

I don't think there are halal butchers in every abattoir, Joe. I've met a few abattoir workers - one might politely describe them as 'real salt of the earth characters'. Frankly, I think a Muslim working alongside the sort of abattoir workers I've met would want to go in with bodyguards. Not a safe working environment for Muslims at all.

I'd like some evidence of this claim that there are halal butchers in every abattoir in Australia, because claims require proof and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And this claim sounds like the sort of claim that the likes of Jacqui Lambie or our Pauline would pull out of their arse - and you've just decided to click the 'I believe' button because it sounded good.

//With respect, I beg to ask if you have any evidence that they charge any more than Muslims, or "a lot more than Muslims". Your assertion that they do so, "because they're Jews", may need some clarification also.//

Well, we're all entitled to our own little nasty, possibly false views about folk wot ain't like us. I haven't got any hard evidence that Jews are greedy, money-grubbing little bastards. But when did evidence matter, when we're talking beliefs*? I'm entitled to believe that Jews are tighter than Scotsmen because South Park told me it's true and Matt & Trey would never lie to me; you're entitled to believe that there is actually an imam in every abattoir in Oz because some bogan told you it's true and they would never lie to you. It's the post-truth era, Joe: we no longer need facts to support intolerant views. But then, I suppose we never did...

Maths is great because it's harder to lie with numbers than it is with words. Can you show me figures on how much companies pay for certification, and how much we end up paying as a result? Have you even seen these figures yourself, or did you just take somebody's word for it that a) they exist, b) they're astronomical and c) they're nearly universal?

* Which may or may not be sincerely held.

'There was no room for individuality, or freedom of expression' went through the same system Paul. Only today matched by secular uni's who are totally intolerant of diverse views that don't fit their often failed narratives.

Hi runner,
To give you an example of the regimental conformity demanded in Catholic schools at that time. In my 2nd year of High School I refused to "volunteer" for the School Cadet Unit, one of only two boys to do so. Well that had dire consequences. A day or two later I was in a corridor when the Cadet Nazi Brother, a rather big man, was coming the other way, he shoved me up against the wall with his forearm to my throat demanding to know if I was a "fancy boy", that's a poofter in his view, my reply was "what if am!" he snarled and walked off. I'm not gay, but I would not give him the satisfaction of knowing if I was or not. The bloke who also doubled as the schools 'Master of Discipline' tried with some success to make my life hell for the next few years. The irony was the same grub was exposed later as a pedophile, just one of a number who operated with impunity. They never got hold of this little black duck, because they tented to prey upon the meek who were the more vulnerable.