NathanJ, (original post), "This politically correct drive is in my view a gross violation of basic individual rights"

Thanks for an interesting thread NathanJ. You are right. The school kids are definitely targets of Leftist revisionism.

Hi Paul,

Haere mai :)

Your interesting post criticised " ..... hard right , bigoted racists with a "How dare they!" attitude to any issues concerning indigenous people."

And there I was, thinking I was still somehow on the Left. But no, if I think an injustice has been done to Indigenous people, and declare "How dare they !" now I'm a bigoted racist. No, I assert that the Indigenous Cause is just, apart from the odd scams, lies, misuse of statistics, etc., and I will always say that it is regardless. Once you're in, you're in for life.

You have a srong point here, I think:

"If the bases of this story is the Australians involving horrific ordeals, or acts of heroism, particularly during times of war, also be questioned, rather than simply be taken on face value as many often are."

Yes, that's true, and usually deeds of heroism CAN be validated by many eye-witness accounts, reports, body parts, etc., the more the better. If there are none for a particular incident, then of course its veracity has to be held in abeyance until there is some sort of validation. The famous photograph of a Spanish Civil War guerilla being shot is a lesson: was it Frank Capra who got the bloke to pose half a dozen times, and selected the most truthful-looking one ? By jeez though, it looked authentic.

Yes, working out the actual truth can be tricky. Literally.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Apology, I don't consider you a "hard right, bigoted racists with a "How dare they!" attitude to any issues concerning indigenous people." That was a general observation of some you find crying in their beer down at the RSL, or on a forum like this, although not so many these days, as time catches up. You put a lot into the issues and that is commendable in no small measure.

I accept there is some truth in the RPF story, I said that from the start, I don't accept the movie is 100% fact with every word uttered being gospel, I believe there is no reason for those involved to lie outright, but did they embellish their story, did the movie makers embellish the story with poetic licence, probably true on both counts.

Anyway off to NZ in the morning to catch up.

G'day Paul,

I'll say it again, and again and and again if you like, that no, I don't think anybody was lying. Memory is fallible. We remember what makes sense at the time that we're remembering, we drop things out that don't seem important, we add things that we think should be there, if they help to make our memory more sensible at that time when we're remembering.

So in remembering again and again, the story changes slightly again and again. Nobody's lying. Contexts change, our understanding of the world changes, so our memory of something from the distant past slightly, ever so slightly, changes, each time we remember.

Have you ever played 'Chinese Whispers' ? In that chain off communication, bits of the original story get dropped out each time, new bits get added, so after a dozen or so interactions, with the 'original story' being passed on through a dozen different people, the 'final story' can be quite different.

So, in real life, how do you know which was the original 'original story' ? You have to find other ways of corroborating it, and SOME evidence is not a bad start. We can 'believe' 'til the cows come home, and no get one millimetre closer to the 'real story'.

So I'll wait until somebody has checked the Moore River School Roll, Failing that, if it's been destroyed (as so many Aboriginal records have been, usually by pure, dumb accident), then I'll be happy to rely on some other evidence, any other record of presence (or otherwise) at Moore River: dormitory records if such exist, hospital records, 'boob' records, anything. Or letters between Neville, Neal, and the Police, the Minister, Hansard, perhaps even the Premier, newspaper reports, etc.

But I'll never, never just believe such an amazing story on its own.

Sorry.

Joe

Paul1405,

You are no different then, exactly the same, as the ideologues and religious fundamentalists who similarly start with a given, pre-set belief, scripture verse, doctrine, alternative "fact" or conclusion and then search for any reasonable-sounding argument to justify and defend it.

As another poster is trying to educate you, indigenous suffered quite enough harm even from the generally peaceful settlement. It was enormous change. For some the change is still happening. That is the big issue. But there were wrongs too by some on both sides.

Therefore, indigenous have no need for the patronising lies of cynical political interests and power-hungry activists who are serving their own needs exclusively, political and personal, under the guise of being 'do gooders' and 'progressives'.

If I was a indigenous leader the very last thing I would be seeking is the continuation of the victimhood that is doing so much damage to indigenous youth. It is playing out in anti-social, risky behaviour for instance and more domestic violence. What I would be promoting instead are the success stories and the empowerment and futures that go with it. Loudmouth's stats on university attendance are highly relevant.

Discussion time here would be better spent finding ways to publciise those achievements of individuals and many thousands of them as it turns out. Not something that gets any attention, much less positive mention, on the ABC, particularly entertainment shows like Q&A that sensationalise and stir to get an audience.

Dear Paul,

Have a lovely time in New Zealand.

And when you get back if you can get hold of the
book, "The Other Side of the Frontier," it
certainly is worth a read. The author has painted
an exciting and compelling picture. It's quite an
important book on the Aboriginal European contact.

It always helps to get more than just one point of
view on any issue. And today we certainly can know
a great deal about the history of indigenous-settler
relations.