I am not so doctrinaire that I cannot watch good programs put on by the politically challenged networks like the ABC and SBS. I like the ABC for British drama, and I have enjoyed 'Outlander', 'Midnight Sun' etc on SBS, and I am currently watching 'Deutschland 83'. But – and it's a big but.

Every time there is a break, huge banners cross the screen telling me to 'be aware of racism', and 'fu2 to racism'. To add insult to injury, there is that awful relic from Channel 9, mouthing something that I am too enraged to listen to on the subject of 'racism'.

What is it with these people? Why do they hate Australia so much? Why do they manufacture the nonsense that Australia is more racist than anywhere else? On our tax dollar, too!

I am beginning to think that what racism there is brought on by the lunatics running SBS. Give a dog a bad name, and it will bite.

As the psychiatrist said to his patient "Unfortunately you are inferior". Abos and Mussies can't help it that's how they're born.
FUSBS.

Hang on, how did we go from, ‘SBS and the ABC focus too much on race and racism’, to, ‘Why do they hate Australia so much’? How is denouncing racism synonymous with hating Australia? Because they claim that Australia is the most racist country in the world? Do they really claim this? I don’t remember hearing this claim from them before.

If the SBS and the ABC hate Australia so much, wouldn’t they want a socially destructive force such as racism to take hold and flourish?

Anyway, racism does still exist in Australia, so wanting to fight it is clearly justified. Perhaps they could distribute their efforts a little more evenly and focus their attention on other social justice issues as well? But fighting racism is still necessary, unfortunately.

Given the stark contrast in attitudes that I personally observe in the younger generations compared to OLO, however, I think the biggest killer of racism will be time.

Dear AJ,

I can still recall when my son was in primary school
and he came home telling me that his best
friend Benjamin had been called a "Dirty Chinese!" by someone
in his class." Mum what does that mean?" he asked me.
Apparently the other little boy kept yelling at Benjamin
and my son was puzzled by it all. Is it bad? he added.
I explained what that meant to my son as simply as I
could. And then asked my son if he understood?
To which my son replied. "Mum, Ben's not dirty.
He's my best friend!"
Which said it all.

It said it all by implication. Probably Ben pointed out his best friend to Mother who gasped and spat out the adjective and noun. Ben then repeated the strange words from past generations of parents.

There must be a hell of a lot of argy bargy and elbows out where those millions of dollars of funding and grants from government tare concerned.

The ABC and SBS do overlap considerably. That was stated by an outgoing ABC chairman - but only when he was going out of the door.

The 'racism' and other 'anti-phobe of whatever description' is about superior brand and which has dibbs on more guvvy dollars. That comes down to political parties and what they get out of it.

Speaking of which, ACT Labor politician Bec Cody must be following Shorten's lead, as in 'a politician should never let the facts get in the way of a geadline'.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/rsl-seeks-a-meeting-with-act-labors-bec-cody-after-her-attack-on-sussex-inlet-rsl-20170214-gud54e.html

No there are reasons for objecting to the tiles. There is not one tile of the Gov Gen P Cosgrove in the urinal , not 1 pic of a digger on the wall above the tray. Why are there no RSL urinals with the army badge engraved in the stainless steel ? Not one !.

Strangely I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed by A J PHILIPS. I say 'strangely' as I often don't agree with much of what he says. However, I consider him utterly correct; I don't believe either the ABC or SBS hate Australia at all. I expect they all have their various agendas, similar to that which are held by the senior Executives of Sydney's Radio 2GB. Who are unashamedly supporters of the 'right'. Whereas the two National broadcasters, appear to be supporters of the 'Left'. Doesn't mean they 'hate' Australia.

Furthermore I do also agree racism does exist - in two precise forms. there are some people from particular areas, where vocational racism is widely practiced. Including that of the normal xenophobia that seemingly pervades among ordinary groups of people, and is (still) alive and well. And will continue to flourish unfortunately. Will 'time' eradicate it, I'm not entirely sure, perhaps ?

I'll necessarily include, instances of racism emerging from some members in 'law-enforcement' (not only police). That is, until they realise, most people regardless from where they've come, are inherently good, whatever their race or the pigmentation of their skin. And to accept, it takes many people, from many backgrounds to make any nation great.

Notwithstanding however; anyone at all who seeks to come here, who wishes to zealously pursue a particular religion, and/or ideology, who's cardinal intent is to occasion harm to Australians, or our distinct way of life, are most unequivocally, 'never' welcome, and will ultimately be apprehended, and with an expectation of years of hard gaol ahead of them !

Racism operates at many different levels, some superficial like name-calling, some deeper, some deeper still. And some so deep that pretty much all of us take it for granted.

But I'm glad there is someone like Ray Martin who can 'fix it'. After all, it's a bit like a tap washer, in'it ? Bam - done.

Joe

 o sung wu,

OK, so I should have said 'why do they hate Australians' and, I could have added, why do so many Australians hate themselves? I'm not going to draw back from the fact the Left is mostly about hate.

Of course “racism exists”; but it is no more prevalent in Australia than anywhere else. Given our ridiculously high immigration and obsession with multiculturalism, I would say that racism was less severe in Australia than anywhere else.

There is certainly no need for SBS or anyone/thing else harping on the subject. As I said, give a dog a bad name.....

As you mentioned a “particular religion”, I feel the need to remind you that religion does not equate to race. I am strongly anti-Islam, not the various races of Muslims. I freely admit that I do not believe in multiculturalism, but that is not racism. Australia has a non-discriminatory immigration policy, and I completely agree with that policy; but, once you are here, forget the past. I don't go around fantasising about my 'roots': I am Australian and that's that.

There is no need for the SBS nonsense, nor the posturing and self-serving of Ray Martin, a very faded star, long past his due by date. The whole campaign is insulting and disloyal. Small wonder that newcomers don't place much importance on joining in.

However, nice to hear from you again. I thought we had lost you.

", who wishes to zealously pursue a particular religion, and/or ideology, who's cardinal intent is to occasion harm to Australians, or our distinct way of life, are most unequivocally, 'never' welcome,"
-
That's hard to read but it seems you mean that crims will get arrested. Good. Do you also mean that a particular religion has the main intent to harm Australians? Do you mean that's the purpose of Islam?

Bikie gangs have harmed Australians . They can be in docos about violence and drugs. And a doco can condemn hatred of bikies. Or condemn damage to Barrier Reef or condemn racism. Our Barrier Reef is great and a wall that foreigners pay to see but it has faults . North Korea has no faults.

Loudmouth, "Ray Martin who can 'fix it'. ... Bam - done"

Anything is possible. The world's most interesting celebrity, Ray Martin's wig, has claimed five times membership of the mile high club. The rug on top and messing with Ray's inflated ego.

Somewhere there is an aboriginal possum rug totem just waiting to be discovered with the aid of the SBS, or will the ABC beat them to it?

racism will just continue to grow because it is very favourable to be a victim. Industries are built around adhd, dv, racism, gw.

You see it in hospital emergency all the time. People become victims in cars and streets for the victim industry.

//it is very favourable to be a victim//

Very favourable to be a victim?

At this point, one has to pause and wonder if runner actually knows what the word 'victim' means. Because there are zero positive connotations to the definition in my pocket Macquarie.

Talking about Ray Martin's "rug?"

"His head's still hairier than his ears,
His arms don't jiggle like jello.
He draws attention to our fears,
But by God he's a good-looking fellow!"

Once again it seems that it needs to be pointed out that that 'racism' is a misnomer, there is but one human race.
Racism, as commonly used, does not exist, what you are talking about is criticism (or worse) of the divisions of humanity based on geographical, language, customs, physiognomy and particularly skin pigmentation.

The golden rule is if seemingly disparate groups can mate and breed fertile offspring then they are of the same race.

"But by God he's a good-looking fellow!"
The master race. That stuff is banned in Germany . God is banned in Kyrgyzstan and racially they can't spell proper.

Thank you TTBN...
I've been pretty busy lately, and one thing on top of another, you know how it is, in this busy world of ours.

I don't for a moment blame religion for terrorism, rather many of the terrorists seem to come from Daesh, and Daesh is closely connected with Islam ? That in itself doesn't mean Islam is responsible for terrorism. However if I were seeking an operative from ISIS, I wouldn't start my initial enquiries at the Catholic Cathedral, rather I'd be hotfooting to the nearest Mosque, might prove a logical starting point I would think.

And how are you NICKNAMENICK...

I should apologise for my awful syntax and other deplorable grammatical errors that make anything I write very hard to understand?
As I mentioned above, it's quite wrong to blame Islam for terrorism. It is however reasonable to equate and synthesize terrorism with Islam and inversely so.

You direct much of your criticism towards the one per-centers and you'd be quite correct. Were you aware many patched members of these intellectual giants are of Lebanese origin, therefore most have had a fairly close associating with Islam - moreover many of the Prezz's are Lebanese, some are and were, the Club's prestigious Master of Arms. So to infer the bikies are a unit unto themselves, is erroneous. Most of the 1% have large Lebanese memberships and that my friend is true.

Please I'm not suggesting Lebanese folk are inherently bad, of course they're not - however the facts do speak for themselves with bikie gangs. Another gem if you will, NICKNAMENICK...

I don't know in which State you reside. However, Long Bag is the largest prison in Australia. Interestingly, those who run the joint are the Lebanese gangs. Followed by an amalgamation of Asian gangs, followed by the bikies. If you're a white anglo - tough, you need to buy yourself protection, ask screws for non-associate status, or bucket loads of Vaseline. Choices are limited.

Dear O Sung Wu,

My husband went to a Christian Brothers School and
was told by the Catholic Chaplain to Pentridge Prison,
in Melbourne, that the largest number of offenders
in prison under his care, were from Christian Brothers
schools. Over nine years at my husband's school,
having contact with other class-mates, my husband told me
this was totally believable. Perhaps times have now
changed.

//what you are talking about is criticism (or worse) of the divisions of humanity based on geographical, language, customs, physiognomy and particularly skin pigmentation.//

You do know physiognomy is a pseudo-science, right? You cannot reliably judge a man's character or intellect by his gait, facial features, cranial bumps, skin pigmentation, or whatever... it's crap and it always has been.

//The golden rule is if seemingly disparate groups can mate and breed fertile offspring then they are of the same race.//

When I studied biology at uni (only one semester - not my cup of tea) about 10 years ago, that was the definition of a species. There was no taxonomic class for 'race'. It went Kindly Pay Cash Or Furnish Good Security: Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species.

Contemporary biologists don't view 'race' as a thing, and nor do most other people. But some people still have quaint 19th century views about the inferiority of people with certain physical characteristics. What can you do? Some people still believe in homeopathy. Idiots will idiot.

Dear NNN,

Kyrgyzstan, Genghis Khan, Abidjan, Bogeyman,
Callaghan, Monaghan, Caravan.
Life should be simple,
Life should be fun,
It should be lived but not on the run,
It shouldn't hurt,
It shouldn't squirt,
Consider moving into a yurt.

Have you felt like a Yurt?
In Long Bag jail :
“You have the Aboriginals in one, then in the next yard the Lebanese, then next one caucasian Aussies and Asians, and next one caucasian Aussies and Islanders.
“They split the Aussies up because they couldn’t get on even with each other.
“But now you’ve got gangs, the motorcycle gangs, the ethnic groups like the Lebanese and islanders and the Asians. They’re all groups and they all stick together. And they’re very hard to confront if they’re in a gang.”
-
Bandidos : Vietnam War veterans , Caucasian.
Hells Angels: white racist ,
Gypsy Joker: US Norway Germany ( bikie gangs started with Hitler Youth in black leathers on bikes and guns)
Comanchero : Serbian Chinese Turk Penguins Yaks Yanks and Yurts.

I dunno about Yurts, but here's a joke I learnt from my dad:

Be Alert! Your country needs more lerts!

Toni,

"Contemporary biologists don't view 'race' as a thing, and nor do most other people."

Most other people don't seem to be represented much on this forum.

Race is a crap, cop out term.

FOXY I wouldn't know about Pentridge or the Christian Bros. From my understanding any of these God Botherers that are Prison Chaplains, are viewed with much derision by screws and crims alike, religious parasites.

NICKNAMENICK...

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Seemingly you know infinitely more about the subject then I.

What irks me when they call opposition to an ideology racism. Race cannot be changed, ideas can. We have racists in Melbourne according to SBS objecting to Islam in violent confrontation. Islam is an ideology not a race, as people of many genetic backgrounds are Islamists. Similarly with all religions they are ideas that the person can have a change of mind about. Well, maybe not Muslims as that invokes the death penalty. Islam is using the race card as it attempts to criminalise any who object.

ttbn,
"I'm not going to draw back from the fact the Left is mostly about hate."
This must be one of these "alternative facts" we've heard so much about lately.

Meanwhile, most of those who know that opinions based on prejudice aren't facts also know the Left is mostly about egalitarianism.
But those on the Right tend to hate that fact.

The left whingers are masters in:

Wildly exaggerating racism where it does exist,
Finding racism where it doesn't,
Manufacturing it where it has never been, and above all,
Ignoring it in their own ranks.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I'm Not sure about prison chaplains being religious
parasites. The world is full of human misunderstandings
concerning all sorts of people. I was simply quoting
what my husband was told at that time. Perhaps now
things have changed. Anyway, your experiences as a
former police officer would be far superior.

I'm very very sorry FOXY for my ridiculous remarks, utterly uncalled for. It's just I wasn't travelling very well yesterday, and all it needed, is some ineffectual button to be pushed, and 'stupid here' should've pulled his blood head in, otherwise if I 'said what I felt' I'd be banned from The Forum for life !

You'd think by now and at my age, all the venom, the violence, and hostility, would've left me by know, but no, it still remains lurking in some dark place bubbling away quietly. I felt better when I regularly attended the old VVCS weekly and then fortnightly, now the facility is no longer VV specific? There's always the Repat. I suppose. Again, I'm sincerely sorry FOXY for my intemperate response, it most certainly wasn't at all warranted.

o sung wu,

VVCS Factsheet
http://www.dva.gov.au/factsheet-vcs01-veterans-and-veterans-families-counselling-service-vvcs

What is the problem?

While not discounting the service and losses of those who are entitled, it has been since its inception, the single worthwhile counselling service available to MEN and a damned fine model it is, but exclusive to those with the qualifying service.

Other men have nothing, zilch and any moves no matter how small to remedy that glaring deficiency (eg., in the light of the male suicide rate in Australia), is always met with derision, resistance and political stalling.

Go there and be grateful.

Dear O Sung Wu,

You do not owe me an apology.
You did nothing wrong and I was not offended.
I was just explaining what my husband was told
at that time - and certainly now,times have
changed with different kinds of offenders
doing bad things. You look after your health
and please know that your opinion on this forum
is respected and valued. You are one of the most
fairest and gentlest of posters. You contribute
a great deal. I always look forward to reading
what you have to say.

Take care

O sung wu

You say: “You'd think by now and at my age, all the venom, the violence, and hostility, would've left me by know, but no, it still remains lurking in some dark place bubbling away quietly.”

No. I, at least, do not think that. We are the same people we always were, only wrinklier. I get very 'venomous' and 'hostile' still, but I don't have the energy any more, so it doesn't last long. There are no bad consequences as there used to be - young people don't take much notice of silly old buggers. Don't fight it. Don't bottle stuff up.

I was saying just a few hours ago to my wife that when we were growing up, things were improving gradually. Now that we are in our declining years, society seem to be deteriorating rapidly. The young ones don't know any better, and they will surive. We will not. But we can still kick and buck if we want to.

I remember lashing out you not so long ago. You survived. I felt contrite, learned my lesson, and life went on.

o sung wu
said " Were you aware many patched members of these intellectual giants are of Lebanese origin, therefore most have had a fairly close associating with Islam - moreover many of the Prezz's are Lebanese, some are and were, the Club's prestigious Master of Arms. So to infer the bikies are a unit unto themselves, is erroneous. Most of the 1% have large Lebanese memberships and that my friend is true."
-
So my post listed the ethnic groups in bikie gangs . Some are Lebanese but they are 1 section of nationalities. So Islam is not the issue is it?

Hi there LEOJ...

Point taken. Aussie Vets are probably the best looked after Veterans anywhere in the western world, and I for one, are eternally grateful for it. Moreover it's been claimed by some (only 'some') Aussie Vietnam Veterans are among the greatest whingers in the Veterans community, usually about there entitlements, TPI rates and the many other benefits we enjoy. Fortunately I don't belong to that number if they exist at all.

I've done the Repatriation Hospital, live-in PTSD course/or treatment programme. The biggest blue that most blokes were articulating, was the (lack of) welcome home or homecoming we had all experienced. I don't want to rehash all that crap now. Besides, it's right off topic. Lastly, I couldn't agree with you more; ordinary men 'NEED' to have their own dedicated 'drop-in' facility or Centre similar to that of the old VVCS - and very very soon I'd suggest!

I'm sorry TTBN for again high-jacking your excellent Topic under discussion. !

You're correct. In the 1%'s most leadership and positions of power, by and large are of Lebanese extraction, but Islam per se, doesn't play a major role within the organizational structure of the 1%'s. Nevertheless one can easily equate Islam and Lebanese together, without doubt. I can't say whether Bikie Gangs are inherently raciest, their clubs are very much closed shops as it were. A former colleague of mine was made case-officer of a newly formed Task Force, in order to interdict activities of the burgeoning outlaw M/C gangs originating in SW Sydney and it's environs.

When last we spoke shortly prior to my retirement, he indicated to me that he'd had substantial doubt as to whether or not he had the necessary resources, O/T Vote, and experienced manpower, just to make a small impression upon their suburban presence. I wouldn't wish to have carriage of his brief for anything at all ! That's for bloody sure?

So Christian Lebanese are in there too but the global story is not good:
" The Lebanese diaspora today is a staggering 20+ million, with only 4 million Lebanese residing in Lebanon. The advances of the Lebanese in their criminal activities throughout the world caused many governments and politicians to become corrupted and give in to their Lebanese guests due to their accumulated wealth and power. In Africa, specifically Nigeria, Ghana, Angola, and Sierra Leone it is reported that at least 35% of the national economy is controlled by Lebanese involved in some sort of illicit activity. The Lebanese mafia has successfully infiltrated and penetrated most governments and systems in the world, and they keep growing their criminal enterprises day by day. Criminal organizations however often transcend religious and cultural barriers, with members of the Sunni, Christian, Shia and Mhallami communities all involved in the same criminal organizations."

o sung wu, "The biggest blue that most blokes were articulating, was the (lack of) welcome home or homecoming we had all experienced"

Agreed, but NOT by the ordinary public and not then, not now.

I'd venture that you would know who trash-talks Vietnam Vets, soldiers, the police, authority and so on and they also regard the ordinary, hard-working tax-paying family-raising public as fools to be taken advantage of by the gravy train.

However as men (the women too) we cannot allow the chaff and lies of hard left Jackasses to affect our thinking and lives. That stuff is external to us. Dump it. Discard. Tip it out of your head. Your choice as to what you allow inside your head.

One thing is for sure though and that is you will never convince the hard left of anything.

What about this selfish, bigoted, old trout who lives off taxpayers and is set for life with two lots of pollies super and benefits, but bashes the 'capitalist society' that gives her all of that?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/31/factional-turmoil-for-greens-continues-amid-attack-from-lee-rhiannons-partner

Hi there LEOJ...

Of course you're right, you'll never convince the hard left of anything. But after awhile we simply lose our puff and our spirit to continue the blue, allowing the younger more exuberant and idealistic members of the far left to smother you with any amount of detritus.

I am becoming quite bemused by all the talk of racism in the media. Perhaps the north of Australia really is a different country, because despite having probably the smallest percentage of white residents in the country there is very little mention of racism.
Interracial marriage,particularly Aboriginal, Asian,White has been widespread up here pretty well since the first white settlers arrived.
On the whole, everyone gets along. White mothers with brown skinned children is a common sight, kids bring home friends of multiple types of race and colour.
My late husband was dark skinned aboriginal/Asian/White and the majority of our grandchildren and all of our great grandchildren have dark skins yet not once have I ever heard any type of negative slur whilst I was in their company, nor that of any of my multitude of dark skinned inlaws. Not in nearly 50 years of living with another race.
A couple of people asked my why I married my husband but it wasn't in a derogatory way,mit was sheer curiosity. And when we holidayed in Adelaide in the 70s and 80s, as a couple we received nothing but courteous treatment from waiters, flight attendants, theatre ushers etc.
One old lady approached us in Rundle St in the middle of Adelaide when we were on holiday with the four children and commented on how beautiful our children were.
So, as I said in the beginning, I'm a bit bemused by the attention given to this apparent crisis of racism. Have I missed something? Do I live in the wrong area? Or have I just been lucky?

u r right Big Nana. We should concentrate on ideology and behaviour not race. That's what makes it so funny when the left label people racist when truth telling about Islam. They are yet to learn that Islam is not a race.

Hey o sung wu there are drop in centres for men, they just go by different names.

Sailing clubs, with some of the larger ones open daily are pretty good places for younger blokes to have a chat regularly. Some cater to us old past it lot fairly well too, & all need people to help run them.

For those who don't want too much togetherness, but do like a bit, they are called car clubs. There are a host of them, catering to different people, just as different cars cater to different people.

I belong to the Triumph club in Qld. We have a monthly meeting night, a couple of Sunday drives in company, & a coffee night, so you can be quite involved or only a little. The same applies here too, car clubs are always short of people prepared to do background work.

If you need company take on a job as magazine editor, or secretary if you really want to be busy.

I find it rather amusing to drive an orphan. It can be fun convincing the young lady at the auto insurance company, that there once was a company called Triumph, that built cars, not just motor bikes.

Big Nana,

You have reinforced the whole point. 'Racism' in Australia is a construct of the Left rabble-rousers. I have been called a white 'c..t' by a black person, who had probably been slurred in reverse by a white person. There is racism everywhere, in pockets, and in isolated cases. But, it is not endemic. It is not common. Particularly, I would suggest, in Australia, where people of all races and colours have lived together for decades. I don't care what people look like as long as they are good people and good Australians, no matter their background. The Left, in general, and taxpayer funded organisations like SBS and ABC are quite evil in their intent. They should be heavily censured and de-funded.

" There is racism everywhere, in pockets, and in isolated cases. But, it is not endemic."
Maybe SBS agrees?

runer
"They are yet to learn that Islam is not a race".and :
."Kevin Andrews tried to warn pig headed liberals about consequences of allowing so many Sudanese refugees. He was mocked and labelled racist. Malcolm Fraser was warned about the trouble Lebanese muslims would cause".
Sudan and Lebanon don't refer to races but types of cheese.

Hi Big Nana,

I agree, it's been a long time since I've heard anybody racially abused. Although I do recall, living up on the mission/reserve/community, being called 'red-hole' by a group of kids when the term was in fashion. I usually answered good-naturedly 'black-hole'. But name-calling is such a pissy part of the nature of racism: there are far worse forms.

For example, what might a leftist call an Aboriginal person who is qualified for, and striving to get and keep a mainstream job ? Behind his/her eyes, would he/she be thinking: 'Co----t' ? and devalue that person as Aboriginal (AND as a graduate: double whammy) ? That sort of racism, in the hands of a pig-ignorant bureaucrat, can destroy people, not just their careers. And, with more than forty thousand Indigenous graduates now, overwhelmingly in mainstream fields, I suspect that there is a lot of it around.

Best wishes and love to all your families,

Joe

Hi there BIG NANA...

A really nice contribution you've made on the subject Big NANA. I wonder whether the word 'racism' is correct in this instance. I know during my years in the police, racism, intolerance or even bigotry or any other description you might care to employ was pretty full on. Especially among the younger uniform members, and then only in and about the privacy of the station or our M/V's. It was more of a derogatory description of the various religions, rather than purely on an individual's ethnicity.

Perhaps the term racism is incorrect, though the precise description given in the Oxford English Lexicon, is clear. Very few of the coppers I've met and worked with when I was a relieving sergeant in the bush, spoke or acted in a truly prejudicial way towards our blacks. Sure in the process of a good stink a lot of swearing and adjectives were used but rarely language that could be considered raciest. Perhaps I'm wrong, I've been retired for awhile now ? Anyhow, thank you for your contribution.

G'day the HASBEEN...

You're perfectly correct, but I think our mutual friend was referring more to a similar service that was hitherto, previously offered to Veterans by the 'Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service'. Where we could enter a programme (Veteran specific) for PTSD, or quick tempers and violence, excessive alcohol use, etc etc. I undertook the in-patient PTSD programme run by the Repat Hospital. Thereafter we initially needed to have, weekly visits at the VVCS gradually tapering off to fortnightly and finally monthly. Most of the blokes achieved substantial benefits from it, notwithstanding the opening of some really ugly old wounds, completely concealed since the end of their tours.

I can't see why a similar clinical facility couldn't be made available for all adult men, personally ?

//I agree, it's been a long time since I've heard anybody racially abused.//

Well you're all quite fortunate. It hasn't even been two years since I had a particularly unpleasant bus ride with some pissed-up bogans subjecting the bus driver to all manner of vile, foul-mouthed abuse for the terrible crime of having brown skin. Which apparently is all that some bogans need to abuse people for being 'Muzzies', even though he looked to me a lot more like an Indian and thus more likely to be Hindu.

Why he didn't stop the bus and kick them off is beyond me. In the end, I had to speak up and request that they cease & desist from giving fair-skinned drunkards like myself a bad name.

Yeah, I hear the occasional bit of racial abuse on the train too. It's usually some bogan slagging off at Asians or Indians.

Anecdotal testimony is not evidence of anything, but it seems some here think the issue is now settled - there is no (or an insignificant amount of) racism in Australia. Nice methodology there, people. Y'all should write it up and submit it for review.

For all this talk of racism, and all these conclusions being reached, not once have the different forms of racism even been mentioned. How can we be sure of what it is that is definitely not happening in Australia?

Hi AJ,

I've probably lived a very sheltered life, but I do now recall a young white bloke on the bus, probably high or coming down: jumpy and incoherent, but he did have a verbal go at another passenger.

Another time, a young African bloke was in a similar condition, jumping up from seat to seat, opening the roof vent very loudly, until he was told by the bus driver to quieten down, whereupon he got off, vociferously, at the next stop.

I did write earlier, about other forms of racism besides simple name-calling:

"For example, what might a leftist call an Aboriginal person who is qualified for, and striving to get and keep a mainstream job ? Behind his/her eyes, would he/she be thinking: 'Co----t' ? and devalue that person as Aboriginal (AND as a graduate: double whammy) ? That sort of racism, in the hands of a pig-ignorant bureaucrat, can destroy people, not just their careers. And, with more than forty thousand Indigenous graduates now, overwhelmingly in mainstream fields, I suspect that there is a lot of it around."

Perhaps all Australians are racist in the sense that Noel Pearson means when he talks about the racism of low expectations: in the current (although very limited) attention to 'Closing the Gap', nobody says a word about what the people themselves could and should be doing for themselves. Aboriginal people are as intelligent and able as anyone else, yet their intra-group problems: violence, neglect and/or abuse of children, have to be resolved by the people themselves, not some do-gooder or bureaucrat (but of course take the legal consequences otherwise). Why expect so little from the people ?

Cheers,

Joe

Grant Hackett is a racer.

I was wondering therefore, if it were possible that racism, in all it's forms, is perhaps just another version of bullying, often perpetrated by a group in numbers ? I've been on a walking frame (four wheels) for a couple of years now, and I've noticed whenever I'm in a crowded shopping centre, many people tend not to see you, or if they do, almost push/elbow you aside. Just bad manners or thoughtfulness I guess ? Though on a couple of occasions, and in presence of my wife which made it infinitely worse, I've copped some significant verbal abuse. On one occasion we were on one of those constantly moving 'travelator' (sic) the type that folks can take their Supermarket Shopping Trolleys, and another instance egressing an elevator. Ostensibly because I took up too much room, and I'm relatively slow, all due to my pusher.

Admittedly words only, but uttered together with such malevolence and threats, you begin to wonder. I couldn't defend myself now, even if I had the will. While true, it's not racism, but still it's an indicator of what's happening in our world in these troubled times.

o sung wu,

There are some rough types around and civility and compassion are lost on them.

In some quarters there is rampant dislike and objection to the aged. It is mainly among the 'rule-breakers', the chattering left, who (wrongly) see the aged as representing all of the traditions and values that they themselves despise (but have nothing workable and better to offer in return).

look around this site (OLO) for examples. For instance, posters are regularly being negged as old and therefore not having any opinions of value, or not worth listening to. Age as a term of abuse.

You have noticed? It would be hard not to notice. But then the fools are easily led, slavishly following the negative stereotyping used by politicians for divide and conquer to protect their own exposed rumps for inadequate planning and their preoccupation with abuse of parliamentary privileges instead.

What you all don't understand, is that there in no such thing as 'race'. Therefore 'racism' can't possibly exist.

What exists is just plain old discrimination.

But doesn't the spectacularly victimizing, 'racism', sound so much more condemning?

There will always be discrimination.

Even saying, Australians are, 'racist', is in fact, discrimination of the worst variety.

If you could think about this, I am sure it would change minds.

Ah well, I tried.

Carry on :-)

Saying there is racism is racist and discriminatory. That sentence is also racist. Smash it.
" It is mainly among the 'rule-breakers', the chattering left, who."
That is not racist or discriminatory as Leftists are ratbag scum without any doubt. Truth is fact. Smash the Left . Blessed are the pure who don't chatter.

Prejudice and discrimination are found in any situation
of hostility and inequality between racial and ethnic
groups. The two words are often used inter-changeably in
ordinary speech, but in fact they refer to two different,
though related, phenomena: attitudes and behaviour.

Prejudice is an irrational, inflexible, attitude toward
and entire category of people. (The word literally
means "prejudged.") "Prejudice" usually implies negative
feelings - antipathy, hostility, even fear. The key
feature of prejudice is that it is always rooted in
generalisations and so ignores the differences
among individuals. Therefore, someone who is prejudiced
against Arabs will tend to have a negative attitude
toward any individual Arab, in the belief that all Arabs
share the same supposed traits.

Discrimination is unequal treatment of people on the
grounds of their group membership. "Discrimination"
usually implies negative actions. In particular,
discrimination involves the refusal to give members of
one group the opportunities that would be granted to
similarly qualified members of another group.
Discrimination occurs, for example, if an employer
refuses to hire or promote someone solely because of that
person's racial or ethnic background.

Yes it's sad to see the abuse it causes:
"Sundays are for discriminating drinkers at Champagne's
All our specialty cocktails are just $5 on Sundays from 8am-midnight.
So try out our Bar Rescue Classic Cocktail Menu:
Bee's Knees Manhattan Godfather Old Fashioned Vesper
Or our other specialty cocktails:
Moscow Mule
Dark & Stormy
Sazerac
Stinger
Brandy Alexander and more
Sign up for a players card for a $10 free play.
See bartender for details.
Champagne's
Legendary Since 1966"

No such thing as race? Who says so? Why do they say so?

It is time we brought cultural differences out into the open for intelligent discussion rather than just accept multi-culturalism as Australian. Attitudes that discriminate on the basis of skin or genetics, disability should be out of bounds.

However ideas, attitudes and actions must be seriously up for challenge. Eg. Orthodox Jews who want tread plates near street crossings to synagogues so they do not have to press buttons to change traffic lights on their Sabbath. The use of burka's as a form of dress in Australia. The wearing a cross as a form of jewellery. All consumers paying for Halel or Kosher foods etc. Is a woman's testimony only half the value of a man's? Should all Australians be equally subject to the Laws. Does religious laws apply to Australian society

"The wearing a cross as a form of jewellery."
Wedding rings are a halo . Eureka flag and Oz flag have a cross and army hats have crossed swords in gold colour.

Dear Nicknamenick,

Talking about discriminatory drinking:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/inner-south/drinkers-claim-bossy-mum-forced-them-out-of-acland-st-bottle-shop/news-story/2507493a961827138653f053112f8c68

We can only assume they had appalling choices of alcohol. How can a young girl develop a good palate when those who should be role models have cheap plonk?

ttbn'

"No such thing as race? Who says so? Why do they say so?"

Anthropologists say so as do other educated people,
humans are a single race, equines are a race, common chooks are a sub-species of the fowl and so on and so on.
That is the legitimate use of the word 'race'.

The human race can be divided into groups but all the groups can breed fertile progeny; although it is in some cases not advisable, different races cannot breed fertile offspring.

Is Mise,

Can you name these anthropologists, or these “other educated people”? Or are you just repeating something you have heard? Surely you don't believe that horses, chooks, “and so on” are 'races'? Where did you pick up such nonsense? Not from educated people!

The three major races are: Caucasian, Mongolian and Negroid. The discovery of Australian natives added 'Australoid' to the list, although that description is rarely used.

The loose talk about all people belonging to the one 'race', home sapiens, has a lot do do with political activism, and little to do with science. Ethnoscience is the discipline with the answers.

My question was a rhetorical one, which you fell for. The 'one race' idea is absurd

//No such thing as race? Who says so? Why do they say so?//

//The three major races are: Caucasian, Mongolian and Negroid. The discovery of Australian natives added 'Australoid' to the list, although that description is rarely used.

The loose talk about all people belonging to the one 'race', home sapiens, has a lot do do with political activism//

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7653#235054

See? I told you idiots will idiot.

ttbn,

Robert Sussman, Franz Boas for starters.

"Franz Boas' major contribution to anthropology was his denial of race as a biological construct. During the late 19th century, anthropologists used biological features to justify racial divisions. Boas disagreed with this and proved that physical features are a result of evolution in one's environment, not evidence of human species...."

https://www.reference.com/world-view/franz-boas-major-contribution-anthropology-244cde5ce97d2b80#

See also:
http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aas102%20(spring%2001)/articles/aaa_race.html

which gives the American Anthropological Association's views on the subject.

Race, as a classification system for the various groupings of humans, was debunked years an' years ago.

Unfortunately, because of the media and other ignorant groups, we seem to be stuck with the popular erroneous notion of 'race'.

Is Mise,

You are entitled to believe any old rubbish you chose to believe; just don't expect to be take seriously.

Dear nicknamenick,

Poor choices of alcohol?

Nah. "Alcohol is like love. The first kiss is magic.
The second is intimate, the third is routine and
after that - anything goes."

No I don't think they were gay , probably not Islamic and likely were on the rose bubbly.

So in other words, ttbn, you’re just gonna believe whatever you want, and to hell with the evidence? How very typical of you.

In my experience, the only people who cling to the debunked 19th century concept of race are those who want to believe that at least one of the other “races”, to which they do not belong, is in some way inferior to theirs.

And you reckon there’s no racism in Australia?

SBS is more obssessed with pornography and perversion than it is race. They call it art and diversity.

The question goes begging : " Why was Bec Cody was standing to pee in the mens urinal at Sussex Inlet RSL in the first place ?" Is it a 'girly tough thing' that female Labor members are want to exhibit in impressing their bikie, MUA and CFMEU mates? Maybe she was emulating the 'Silver Budgie' and couldn't hold her last yard glass long enough to make it to the 'ladies room' ?

As any bronzed ANZAC will attest, it's a sign of manhood to drink copious quantities of amber fluid and hold on for as long as humanly possible...too bad about those Changi induced bladders though. Poor form on the builders behalf for putting the powder room 500 metres down the paddock.

I had a small plaster gnome out amongst the foliage in the backyard of our home in Darwin, which my family used to pee on if the main toilet was engaged. Does SBS and ABC want to do a story on why short people... oh me bad, sorry "height challenged folk" should be urinated on ?

Not a journalist or camera van to be seen.

Dear runner,

I didn't know that about SBS.

I must watch it more often.

Dear nicknamenick,

They weren't gay - they were bogans.
Which explains it all.

ttbn,

Are you happy about your negroid ancestors?

Labor's Bec Cody makes things up,

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/rsl-seeks-a-meeting-with-act-labors-bec-cody-after-her-attack-on-sussex-inlet-rsl-20170214-gud54e.html

Doesn't the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly have any remedies or even concern where a member deliberately misinforms it? Coward's Castle?

There is quite a heated competition in Labor for Juliar's crown for 'terminological inexactitudes', meaning outright lies. Shorten is an easy winner, too hard to beat.

The new euphemism for lies is 'alternative facts' and announced with that set face of the practised exponents of 'wobblies'.

Is Mise,

I have no knowledge of negroid ancestors. I suppose you are referring to the 'belief' that we all 'came out of Africa'? The only ancestors I am familiar with are: Scottish (half), English (a quarter) and German (a quarter).

Ever wondered why people living closest to the Equator are darker-skinned than those living further from it?

There is the obvious reason of climate to explain this. You and I (I assume that you are a white man) were never meant to live in this part of the world. Until we started meddling with nature and the natural way of things, mankind was living where he was meant to live.

Why? Some people believe God 'done it'. Some talk about Creation. Others, like me, don't have a clue, but it makes sense as a fact of nature: the right people being in parts of the world that naturally suits them. Since man has thrown off any thought of a higher being, thinking of himself as …. God, if you like … the world has gone mad. Mere humans now think that they can control nature. They think that they can change the climate. They think that they can make the arbitary decision that there is no such thing as race, even though the differences in people are as plain as the nose on their faces. They think that all people are equal – that they can live together happily. The fact that different people are not getting along very well in one place; the fact that all the claims about how we can control the climate have proven false – these things don't seem to matter to the manipulators and social engineers. So, they make up bulls..t, and people like you are sucked in.

Wow, I thought only runner could pack that much willful ignorance into one post. I was wrong.

Step aside, runner. There's a new kid in town!

I'm still no closer to figuring out who you used to be though, ttbn.

An angry, occasionally-abusive, right-wing, climate change denier, who isn't religious yet still doubts evolution, thinks race is a scientifically valid concept, and doesn't understand the notion of equality in the context of social justice...

Never mind, I'll get it one day.

What law says I cannot comment on another persons religion? Why should any law say I cannot comment on another persons race, colour, religion or creed?

What law says I cannot say something that offends others? Why should any law say I cant say something that offends others?

Why does the govt favour the use of legislation as the sole method of preventing racism over education?

Race laws exist for no other reason than to prevent freedom of speech about the effects on a country of mixing races?

The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion but allow a very lively debate within that spectrum. – Noam Chomsky.

"Race laws exist for no other reason than to prevent freedom of speech about the effects on a country of mixing races?"

Not really, mixing "races" has a generally good effect, new genes in the pool etc., the European of today is a good example.

Nobody stops any discussion of the effects of the Romans introducing North African and Eastern bloodlines into Britain.

Is mise
Yes, I agree that mixing of the bloodlines can be beneficial in creating a stronger
Race of Australians. It is well known that continuously breeding show dogs
With the same breed for too long perpetrates weaknesses in the breed until
the weaknesses become a real threat to the health of a lot of breeds and that. Mongrels
Get sick less often and are hardier and tougher.

But the minute you mention this type of Intregration as being desirable.you are accused of being racist.
There-in lies the down side of the mixing of the races. It needs to be done in an
Intelligent and controlled manner, because if you end up with two big ethnic groups here
Both big and equal in numbers you are more likely to get civil war over control of
The country before you get mixing in any great numbers by the ethnic groups.

Lions are the same species too, but if a lion comes onto the territory of another lion
You see exactly the same reaction that you see in a racist attack.
Hostility, threatening behaviour, fight.
It is better to call racism for what it is. Territorial bloodline hostility.
I'm surprised that some fellow on here who called himself a biologist, can probably
Understand this biological behaviour in animals, but fails to understand the same behaviour in humans who are also hardwired to protect those biologically closest to them, Their have been many bloodlines pushed to extinction through loss of land and territorial resources. The merging of bloodlines while desirable, has to be done in
A way that is very careful.

Hi Is Mise & Cherful,

Yes, Darwin was all in favour of what he called 'hybrid vigour', that inter-mixing of people with different historical, geographical and biological backgrounds produced children who inherited the best from both. Having been happily married to an Indigenous woman, and observing other people in similar situations, I'm confident in asserting that yes, the best from both sides is inherited: it's well-known that some of the most beautiful women in the world - the current Miss Universe, for example - have mixed parentage.

And there's a lot more of it to come :)

Cheers,

Joe

When people from overseas are in sports teams and sing the dirt by sea anthem , then verse 4 says:
"While other nations of the globe
Behold us from afar,
We'll rise to high renown and shine
Like our glorious southern star;
From England, Scotia, Erin's Isle,
Who come our lot to share,
Let all combine with heart and hand
To advance Australia fair!
In joyful strains then let us sing
"Advance Australia fair!"

Fair or blonde-haired are advanced Australians.

National Song Poll. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20071120035149/http://www.aph.gov.au/library/elect/referend/pleb.htm

The National Song Poll was held in 1977 by the Fraser Government to determine which song was preferred as Australia's national anthem. Until 1974 God save the Queen/King was used as Australia's national anthem.

The Whitlam Government, following the result of a public opinion poll conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, changed the anthem to Advance Australia Fair, except on specifically royal occasions.

In January 1976, the Fraser Government reinstated the use of God save the Queen for royal, vice-regal, defence, and loyal toast occasions. Advance Australia Fair was played on all other official occasions.

On 19 April 1984, the Governor-General Sir Ninian Stephen issued a proclamation declaring that God save the Queen was to be the royal anthem, to be used in the presence of the Queen or members of the Royal Family. Advance Australia Fair was declared to be the national anthem, and non-sexist words were adopted.

Striking shearers, mentally unhinged from poor nutrition - at best suicidal and inclined to sheep stealing, pursued by Gendarmes and aggrieved Pommy Neo-Con oligarch land barons on horseback are not very PC. But seemingly much more romantic than your version NNN.

Lyrics below:

Here in this God given land of ours, Australia
This proud possession, our own piece of earth
That was built by our fathers, who pioneered our heritage,
Here in Australia, the land of our birth.

REFRAIN

God bless Australia, Our land Australia,
Home of the Anzac, the strong and the free
It's our homeland, our own land,
To cherish for eternity,
God bless Australia, The land of the free.

Here in Australia, we treasure love and liberty,
Our way of life, all for one, one for all
We're a peace loving race, but should danger ever threaten us,
Let the world know we will answer the call

REFRAIN

Fraser, wishing to avoid losing a hefty remuneration from the Battenberg family trust account post politics, decided the best choice was to push for Advance Australia Fair along with the signing of a contract with British Leyland for more useless Series 3 Land Rovers.

"our own piece of earth"?
The Rockhampton farmers know it isn't so as Singapore may get the army land from George and sons. "Governor Phillip's Instructions 25 April 1787.
Instructions for Our Trusty Arthur Phillip Esq. Our Captain General and Governor in Chief, in and over Our Territory of New South Wales . In The Twenty Seventh year of Our Reign."
Although Charles could certainly sing it with feeling as prince of Wales . He can choose Lithuanian or Welsh version.

"On 1 June 1829 Stirling published this Proclamation constituting His Majesty's Settlement in Western Australia. In the Proclamation Stirling indicated that His Majesty's Authority now applied over the Colony and hence 'all persons whom it may concern should obey all Legal Commands and regulations, as I may see fit from time to time to enact ...'.
So 1 guy owned everything south of Indonesia and anything his man said was enforced , drunk , asleep or insane . His grandfather was German which explains it.

Ttbn you say a lot of interesting things about Africa and people who live there. It is a very hot place most of it, and the many peoples who live there are black skined because of the heat do you think or for other things.

I agree with you about the climate cannot be controlled by anyone by any man at all, its all nature and that sort of thing. Don't be worried by that "blow-hard" guy AJ Philips he sounds like a little girl baby who's worried about him being a man, so he's always rude to you and other peoples here on this site. He's lonely with no friend I think thats why he's so rude to many people on this site.

You know a lot of stuff about where you come from me I guess I am from Albania only, no other blood in me or my wife and kids we think or grand kids we also think. We are white peoples all of us. Albania is in Europe and Europe is white a lot I think. We as peoples are tall me over ( in your way of mesurement I'm about 5 inchs and six feet tall) and my is 10 inchs and 5 feet tall.

I finish now and I agree with much of the things you say, ignore the girl baby AJ Philips and his little bits of rudeness, he's just a bitter lonely person who's is an angry person all the time ?

misanthrope,

You sound like very angry mans. You is become obsess with me. You hold the grudges very long times. All because I tell you your god is fantasies. Must be Albania thing. Albanian peoples sound like big anger. You mafia are real charmers.

In my country, we say God, then man, then horse, then dog, then woman, then rat then cockroach, then Albanian.

Nah. On second thoughts, I think whoever's behind this misanthrope character is having us on. The more I read that last post, the less credible it sounds.

I mean, to refer to the most ignorant post on this thread as "interesting", and then congratulate the author of it for being knowledgeable, is bit too much for me to take seriously. Sounds like an obvious troll to me.

Nice work, mate.

Philips,

Baby bliss Philips the nasty person. Why you are so very nasty to people? When somebody returns your words, you cry like a little baby. You haven't a real friend in the world do you. You are so lonely that's why it is you insult people with cruel words, it's something to do with your complete lack of manhood. When challenged physically your would cry, saying you never mean to use your nasty tongue. You lack being a real man,so you have a gender confusing, thats what your problem is.
I never ever insult you being an Aussie but you insult me? When you sleep tonight think very hard about how brave you are to insult my country where I was born and how cowardly your are for doing so Philips.

“Look at me, I is big mean Albania mans.”

Haha!

Love ya work, mate.

Loudmouth , Jo

Thank you for your reply.
I always enjoy your reasoned, intelligent posts.

It is obvious that you think things through and give
an honest reply even at times when you may differ in opinion

Fool on the hill
You say that ,What we people don't understand, is that there is no such thing as race.

I suggest you buy some new glasses. You'll see people of obvious different races
everywhere.

You are no doubt referring to the attempt at promoting globalisation ideology.
by the academics. The percentage of matching DNA that all humans have in common.
Chimpanzees have most of their DNA in common with humans too. Which indicates
that, that small percentage of difference is capable of Creating profound dis-similarities
also.
Lions are genetically, percentage wise close in DNA. Doesn't stop them from reacting
With hostility and threat when another lion comes onto their territory.
You might call it racism, but it is actually territorial, tribal(bloodline) hostility.
I think it is you and your fellow academics who fail to understand the biology of the human being.

Hi Cherful,

Thanks for your kind words. But ....

We shouldn't confuse phenotype with genotype, what we look like implying some underlying 'racial' characteristic. Of course, people look different, there are seven or eight billion of us. Of course, we can loosely lump people into 'groups', in any number that we like, five 'races' or fifteen or five hundred if we get picky. But those 'groups' merge into each other: individuals assumed to 'be' in one group turn out not to be so. I remember a friend who I thought was Samoan who, as I found out fairly quickly, was Tanzanian. Maybe that's what makes some Anglo-Australians a bit uneasy: they can't categorise people as easily as they thought.

I got to know a bloke at the Sunday markets who I thought, for some reason, was Pakistani. No, he was Nicaraguan. I thought that another woman was Indonesian and I used to try to chat her up in Bahasa, but she turned out to be Hazara from central Afghanistan. Beautiful woman.

Maybe it pays to wait until we know someone better before we jump to conclusions about where they may be from, i.e. if we make judgements from their phenotype, what we think they look like, to genotype, the rather useless characterisation about what 'group' or 'race' they may belong to. 'Groups' blur into each other. Cambodians may look like Filipinos. Greeks may look like Spaniards or northern Indians or Finns. A Welshman may look Arab, as I found a couple of months ago on a bus, when a yob started insulting another bloke, a big bloke who could have taken him apart; and turned out to be Welsh, a NZ citizen, just visiting Adelaide.

Frankly, 'race' is a useless concept, and a hopeless means of differentiating the world of people around us. Where it gets dangerous is when we make illusory judgements from appearance to some supposed underlying characteristics to character etc. If there ARE 'races', there are seven billion of them.

Cheers,

Joe

We are one we are Albania. " Arthur Phillip, first leader of the colonization of Australia, originally named Sydney Cove "New Albion","
Britain and then Scotland were Albion "whites" like albino Swedes and pure-blooded Albanians , Advance Albania Fair.

Seriously folks, take it easy.

I'd hate for things to really turn hurtful.

Words do hurt.

I remember Misanthrope from way back when he
first joined the forum years ago. He is
from Albania and has not posted for a long
time.

Lets all relax and start afresh. Please?

Dear Foxy,

I know who misanthrope is. How could I not? He only ever posts now to attack me. If he is not just trolling OLO, then he sounds like a thoroughly terrible person. Nevertheless, I still feel bad for what I wrote, then I read his post again...

Dear AJ,

I'm sorry I did not know.

I always read your posts because I think they're
always rational and fair.

I don't always read many others for the fact that they're
neither rational nor fair.

Keep on posting. Please.

Thanks, Foxy. I try to remain fair and avoid biting back, but sometimes an individual's attacks will grind me down and I just snap.

Loudmouth Jo,
Yes it's true what you say about it being hard to pick what race some people are from
But it is also true that when people go to war, the overriding thing is, they know
In general what side of the racial divide they will fight on.

It may be hard to pick a Albanian from a Pakistani or whatever, if you are not overfamiliar with these races but you certainly can pick that they are not aboriginal,
Anglo Saxon, Japanese,Chinese,Jewish,Serbian or Russian.
In other words, we are pretty good in general,at knowing our own race(bloodline).
And when battle lines get drawn we are mostly only willing to fight on the side of those who offer the most protection to our nearest biological bloodline. That being, our children,our cousins, our aunts and uncles, parents,brothers and sisters and tribe.
The people in the tribe around us being the closest of any ethnic group genetically because of tribal intermarriage through the decades and centuries.

I cannot for the life of me see, why this obvious biological imperative operating in all wars cannot be seen by our so called brightest and most intelligent.
I don't think they want to see it. It frightens them to think they are being controlled and driven by nature, that they themselves won't be able to stop wars with all this nice
sounding emotional love and tolerance rhetoric. And so it is, all their best efforts at this,
since they set up the United Nations after World War,have failed spectacularly, and wars have continued unabated across the world.
Still,they think they have control over it. But, they don't have control over it.
We will as we have proven across history, kill to protect the territory for our offspring.

And you have Ray Martin thinking he can somehow change this obvious course of
nature in the historical events of human existence.
Well Ray,try and catch the wind.

Mankind is always In an uneasy truce with nature and his ability to control it,even in himself. Nature will often just reassert itself, notice the gradual weakening of modern antibiotics,

"And when battle lines get drawn we are mostly only willing to fight on the side of those who offer the most protection to our nearest biological bloodline."
So no Australians did anything in the Korean or Vietnam wars? And didn't do anything to Germans in WWI and II ? English love French and Irish in wars? And everyone shook hands in the English and US Civil wars?

"And when battle lines get drawn we are mostly only willing to fight on the side of those who offer the most protection to our nearest biological bloodline"

I always wondered why so many Irish Republicans fought for Monarchial Britain in WW II.

Nicknamenick
I am well aware of the wars you mention, and I still stand by what I said
In my posts. Communism was seen as the major threat and enemy to
Western capitalist countries and their people. at, the time of the Korean and Vietnam wars.
The Cold War with Russia was at an all time high. And American leaders
Saw the Korean and Vietnam war as part of the domino affect of countries falling into communist hands and threatening them with more communist power.They also
Knew Russia was backing these wars with weapons.

We were asked to send troops by the country we saw as protecting our people
with, their seemingly unbeatable military. America.. So again we sided with the bloodline at the time, who was the most likely to come to the aid of our closest bloodline in Australia if we were threatened by the domino effect with the communists gaining control of one country after another in ASIA to our north. it was said at the time that the communists especially Russia and Mao’s Chinese were plotting to bring
Down capitalist countries and we feared being overrun by the millions of poor Chinese,by their sheer numbers. This was before China became prosperous by
Adopting the one child policy.
Now that's a fear of your bloodline being conquered and your territory and land you need for your own survival being overrun. That underpinned the Vietnam involvement
Our fear of China back then was the same kind of fear and distrust
Western countries, feel towards Isis now. Today we have a much better relationship with China due to trade deals etc.plus and they are prosperous and not desperately poor any more.

So the Vietnamese and Korean allies had the same view as the West in general? Australians killed more Germans than Asians . Europeans killed 395629463 Europeans more or less last century.

Is mise.
The Irish fought with the British against the Germans in Worl War 2
Because they saw Britain as the devil they knew, although their dislike of the British
having governance of Ireland was stiill strong.

But the Germans were an unknown enemy and may have decided to slaughter all the Irish that were under no threat of death from the British as they were in the1600s
When the British marched in and took control of Ireland and the British settlers followed and set up towns and cities on Irish land.

A few centuries down the track, The British people had informative news reporters
And everyday frequent news reports. The British military in Ireland could not be seen to be
Committing atrocities against the Irish citizens without just reason.
The Germans however were slaughtering millions of civilians at that time without any kind of fear from justice systems.
If I'd been Irish and had to make that decision, I too would have let the hostilities
Over making Ireland a republic which had a chance eventually of being won from the Brutish go and fought the more "real and present danger". (Yes,, movie quote) of the
Germans.

Nicknamenick.

And how many did the Ottomon empire slaughter.

The Japanese Slaughtered millions of Chinese, that's right "millions" in the lead up years to World War 2. You may have heard of the rape of Manchuria.
They seized the wealthy Manchurian railway and goldmine in China.

There,s Ghanghis Kane who conquerored half the world. Him and his men
Slaughtered most of the citizens in the towns and country's they took.

The Turks committed genocide against 1million Muslims but they deny it to this very day. They don't mention or teach it in their school history.

Oh, also how many did the Arabs kill when they started their civil war in Iraq with their bombs and car bombs. As many as the Americans I'd reckon, not to mention the invasion looting and rape of Kuwait for 3months before being driven out of Kuwait by
A United Nations sanctioned force headed up by America.
America waited 3months to get that permission while everyone was appalled on the
World news that no one was helping the people of Kuwait.

Genocide isn't a European trait it is an all of human trait. Which is the point I made in
My original post. All across history, also ,you have had warlords, like Isis and other
Bands of male conquerors rise up and just take lands and territorial wealth with
Weapons. Ghanghis Kane lived in absolute wealth and splendour, ruler of half the world that he took at the point of a gun and sword. Also the Roman Ceasars.
The British family today still has sumptuous wealth and lifestyle bestowed upon them
By the warlords who set themselves up as kings.
The rewards of territorial conquest are worth dying for, for some males who will be condemned to a life of poverty and misery otherwise.

CHERFUL,

Ireland was neutral in WW II and whilst she did nothing to stop her citizens joining the British forces she did nowt to stop them joining the German forces.

"Friesack Camp or Camp Friesack is a name commonly used to refer to a special World War II prisoner of war camp where a group of Irishmen serving in the British Army volunteered for recruitment and selection by Abwehr II and the German Army. The camp was designated Stalag XX-A (301) and located in the Friesack area, Brandenburg region.[1] The training and selection by Abwehr II and the German Army occurred during the period 1940-1943."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friesack_Camp

There was not as much involvement as in WW I when there was an Irish Brigade in the German Army, as there had been in the Boer War on the Boer side and previously in France, Clare'S Dragoons being notable.

Cherful
Careful. You just proved that racial blood ties are useless when the bell rings for the punch up.

Nonamenick.
Yes that can be true, The human is nothing if not a survival animal.
Not this touchy feely, lovey Dovey, peaceful reasoned creature he likes to
Believe he is.

So it does depend on the circumstances, and the forces and self interest of
Individuals clouding the waters. But if you study history you will mostly find
Wars are divided along ethnic tribal lines as they are in most of the world conflicts
Today. There will always be renegades and strange individuals who fight for
their own weird reasons or perceptions but they are not the usual.
Also tribes will aline with other bloodlines who share a fear of the same enemy
to help win and survive. That doesn't mean that the same allies are that friendly before or after a war.

They may even go back to tribal hostility and squabbling afterwards but co-operating
as allies has helped ensure their bloodlines holding on to the country's
And land they need for survival. That is always the main prioroity.

Is mise

Your knowledge of the Irish, who decided they hated the British more than
the Germans, is more advanced than my knowledge of the Irish mindset at
the time of world war 2. But it still doesn't change what I say about the Irish
Choosing an option that they saw as being more beneficial to the survival
Of their own people. And maybe a chance to take back the territory of Ireland
for the survival of their own tribal bloodline, the Irish.

It was still territorial tribal warfare. Which all wars are.

Nicknamenick

Sorry for getting your name wrong. Didn't notice it until I posted it.
I suspect it could have been my spell checker.

Nicknamenick

The thing you are not seeing is that the British bloodline was closer
to those living in Britain which had been separated from the Germans
by an ocean for a few generations. The Germans having Anglo Saxon links.
Had once invaded Britain linking the Anglo Saxon bloodline.
But the passing of history and an ocean had diluted the tribal closeness.

Brothers in a family will fight, but they will forget that and fight against
An outside enemy together also. It is the immediate present tribe around people
that they will seek to protect the most.
Simple biology. The old aging parent cells will protect the new cells that are
their only chance at human immortality that exists on this earth

Cherful,

"Choosing an option that they saw as being more beneficial to the survival of their own people"

What they mainly chose was a chance of adventure and, more importantly, a chance at making some money; Ireland was not a land of milk and honey in the 1930s.

War is violent politics and politics is peaceful war , like soccer.
Civil war is elections and parliament. The Kaiser was Victoria's grandson. Scotland is part Anglo Saxon and 50% want freedom , independence and lots of violence. The enemy can be London , Beijing or Australian Rugby.