"70-Year-Old Vietnam Vet Shoots Two Armed Robbers"

http://freebeacon.com/issues/70-year-old-vietnam-vet-shoots-two-armed-robbers/

Sometimes the good guys win; you won't find this story in the local media.

"Two Feral Black Thugs Attack 70-Year-Old Veteran And Make One ..."

Two men pulled a gun , a Civil war cannon needing a pair of guys to aim it . The injured feral black is charged with murder because the peaceful, tame , white, gun-carrying white, shooting, white man killed one of the 1/2 a gun black men with black hands and faces.

Now if there was 'gun control' only the bad guys would have guns. Because the bad guys are completely unaffected by gun control. They set out to break the law and violence and weapons are part of their modus operandi.

Where the offenders and the victims are predominately black and gangs and drugs are almost always implicated as well, it is plain that blaming a 'gun culture' is just a smoke screen to avoid any critical examination of social problems that are most likely being made worse, or not being improved, by social policies (and social experiments).

In the interim it is difficult to argue against crime victims being able to defend themselves.

Dear Is Mise,

Every time I read one of these stories I am just so thankful we do not have a gun culture here in Australia. When was the last time, if ever, we had a teenager involved in 'dozens' of violent robberies involving firearms anywhere in this country. Our strict laws help protect us from not only that but people like you who hold up the US as their version of paradise, one they are keen we march toward.

SteeleRedux uses 'gun culture' in a pejorative sense.

But it is immediately obvious form the OP alone that even if the vague 'gun culture' is to be used, there is no one identifiable group but at least two and probably many.

In the OP, there is the respectable licensed citizen who was forced by circumstances beyond his control to legally defended himself.

There is also the criminal who set out to break many laws, with violence and with no concern for the value of human life.

So SteeleRedux, precisely which 'gun culture' are you talking about and aren't you guilty of researcher error, where you emotionally attribute the cause and to accord with your own biases?

Why would you discount the likely SOCIAL root causes of offending and death in the black population, thereby condemning them to more of the same?

Sadly, Obama didn't live up to the promise expected of a black President in the White House. He ducked and so do you.

Steele,

We do have a gun culture in Australia and it is growing; we are, thanks to John "Bullet Proof Vest" Howard the only country in the world that has a political party that is not only shooter oriented but is mainly made up of shooters/gun owners/collectors and it now has members in three States and is organized in all States.
Of recent years it has broadened its policies and now includes fishing and farming folk.

Our teenage criminals tend to use knives, probably because they know that their victims will be defenceless, the knife being the favourite weapon of choice for armed robbery and murder.

"A spate of random, cruel murders, committed by teens - coincidence or a sign?"
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/weekend-australian-magazine/boys-gone-bad/news-story/828f27e7ea94eb2124c8f09dd324d69d

and from Adelaide
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/the-teenage-killers-whose-crimes-shocked-south-australia/news-story/f2dd9a38d49a1613e117cb5798765cca

we certainly have a violence problem. The victims usually have nothing to defend themselves with. How long was the Victorian Govt in denial about African gangs and the NSW Govt in denial of Muslim Lebanese rapist? Yep no real problem until personally affected. Usually lefties living in leafy suburbs with little immigration repeat the mantra of how good it is in Aussie re crime. They insist on inflicting crime on others to support their ideology.

If a knife is used then a home-owner or attack victim can't just fire a gun, the defence must be proportional or reasonable .
Q. about a 'heart warming story'. What would the court say if a white druggie pointed a gun at a black and the black shot him dead..hmm..

nnn,

In NSW one only has to reasonably fear for one's life, and the various State police have shot people who threatened them with knives.
Personally I'd use my walking stick.

Ref the 2nd part, probably a lot would depend on the Court and its location, which in no way alters the fact that in some counties one is encouraged to defend one's self, unlike Australia where one is not allowed to possess ANYTHING for the purpose of self defence.

Although cannons are prohibited weapons in NSW they are not in SA .
They can be registered in NSW and probably mounted on a car without a firing mechanism but with a bit of practice in fast fitting you'll be fine. You need to reasonably fear the drone pilot has plastic explosive coming your way and use reasonable force or his uncle will track you with a drone scope . Walking sticks with leather strap for final sharpening are ideal.

nnn,

You don't know much about cannons either!

This little dude was used in the Civil War and at this light weight it will comfortably ride on your cab roof.
"12-pounder Mountain Howitzer bronze.
220 lbs"

"The smallest working cannon measures 6.88 mm in length, , was made by Marcus Hull (Australia) and fired in Melbourne, Australia, on 4 July 2015."
"Swivel guns are among the smallest types of cannon, typically measuring less than 1 m in length and with a bore diameter of up to 3.5 cm . They can fire a variety of ammunition but were generally used to fire grapeshot and small caliber round shot. They were aimed through the use of a wooden handle, somewhat similar in shape to a baseball bat, attached to the breech of the weapon."

After firing , the baseball bat and walking stick are available for tidying up the the perpetrator.

nnn,

You didn't give any references.

So nicking someones wallet means execution for you lot now?
Harsh.

References ? Here's your references mate just get aboard and get going.
".the RAF decided to look for a 20mm cannon. Much effort was made to get the Hispano cannon into service. An ACAS report in November 1938 stated that "recent firing trials against armoured and unarmoured aeroplanes have convinced me that a more powerful weapon than the .303 must be introduced into service as soon as possible;....The 20mm calibre is the minimum which can be accepted.......every effort should be made to ensure rapid production."

mikk,

It is one thing to bag the authorities, but what evidence do you have to contradict the informed opinion of the District Attorney and police who stated without qualification that the targets of the armed attack by those armed thugs feared for their lives and the self-defence was reasonable and legal?

The self defence and protection of a friend was quick-thinking, well drilled and courageous. He should be given a medal.

What ideology and self interest makes you side with the thugs? Why should the rights of criminals always prevail over the rights of their vulnerable victims? Shouldn't victims of crime be allowed to defend themselves.

Nah mikk, not for the first offence, if they survive.

Just cutting off their hand for the first offence will do. Their head should only come off at the second offence, if they have survive.

nnn,

That's not a reference;
this is a reference
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/133217/Certain_Cannon_FACT_Sheet_Jan_2014.pdf

See the difference?

That's a reference like "An ACAS report in November 1938 " emphasising the delights of fireworks above 20mm. As your scrap of paper notes, Police are only too happy to see you load up a pre-1920 muzzle cannon. Keep a cork in the powder-hole to deter wasps, hornets and hail stones , dab some paint for sighting the culprit and cruise in comfort and security.

Just because we're old doesn't mean we are defenceless. Go old fella. I bet the training just kicked in & you reacted. Still got it.

He hasn't still got it. The M60 machine gun is the bare minimum for vehicles , on foot it's the M16 rifle. Pistols are for cooks and starched shirts.

nnn,

".... , on foot it's the M16 rifle...."

The semi-automatic version of which is going to be issued to NSW Police; seems someone did some testing and, wonder of wonders, found that the average policeman could shoot more accurately with a rifle than with a pistol.

Bloody amazing!!

"Glock pistols could become rifles: NSW Police looking at new technology to deal with terror attacks"

Apparently they have given up on this "brilliant" idea,
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/glock-pistols-could-become-rifles-nsw-police-looking-at-new-technology-to-deal-with-terror-attacks/news-story/c95e1d384eb56e18171888b79c2a3eb3

and are looking at the M4
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nsw-police-can-soon-use-longarm-semiautomatic-guns/news-story/016f7325cf77df8cd7e857123955b598

"“The tests carried out showing the comparison between an ordinary trained cop using a standard glock compared to the long-arm were staggering,[who would ever have guessed?]” a NSW officer told The Saturday Telegraph.

“Using a Glock at 25m, 50m and above the ­officer shooting at an active shooter would also hit three other people, whereas with the rifle the shooter was taken out without any innocent bystanders injured at all.”

Dear Is Mise;

You wrote;

"We do have a gun culture in Australia and it is growing; we are, thanks to John "Bullet Proof Vest" Howard the only country in the world that has a political party that is not only shooter oriented but is mainly made up of shooters/gun owners/collectors and it now has members in three States and is organized in all States."

Oh I am fully aware of the lobbying against, and the dilution of, our gun laws here in this country. I was talking to a Berretta rep about a year ago who said their sales, particularly of pistols, had skyrocketed over the last three years. He said with a wink that as a company they had spent a lot of 'political' money and it was paying off. It was also from educating the shooting community how far to push the rules.

I fully expect these to be added to the arsenal held by our criminal classes as stolen weapons make up the majority of these weapons.

I am also a realist an expect a mass shooting within the next three to five years in this country as a result of people like yourself feeling it is your god given right to put the rest of us in harms way.

And you guys will use it as an excuse to 'arm teachers' or some such ridiculous crap. But we have come too far. When it happens, and it will, the courage of Howard will be remembered and we will as a nation go there again.

Those lives will be on your head my friend. Hope you are prepared to shoulder them, a burden born out of selfishness and false pride.

"..shooting at an active shooter would also hit three other people,."
This is where the yank in his tank shows he's got it. With 2 perps holding 1 pistol he has a choice of Glock black block-buster or the ever-popular grapeshot cannon . A whole black feral gang in 1 grapeshot with black gunpowder , reload and drive on.

Steele,

Leave the comedy to Paul and NNN.

NNN: The M60 machine gun is the bare minimum for vehicles , on foot it's the M16 rifle. Pistols are for cooks and starched shirts.

You really shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.

The 60 (Yank & they are not used any more) or now the GPMG (Brit) the 60 was never accurate & is not intended to be accurate. It is an area weapon with a "Cone of Fire" for support or suppressive fire. Do I have to explain what that is? As is the GPMG, but less so. Unlike the Bren, which has a very minimal "Cone of Fire" & is very accurate. MG's on vehicles look very good in Movies, or as support fire, but venerable.

Cook's & Senior Ranks I agree with, only because I wouldn't want to get caught in "Blue on Blue."

The 16 & the 4 are good weapons, but the Styer 2, with the upgrade, is much better & Less inclined to jam at a bad time.

Is mise: “Using a Glock at 25m, 50m.

Two out of three rounds on a figure 11 at 25 m will hit sideways. 15m is maximum accuracy at 50m, anyone within a 5m radius is in danger. Luckily though a T Shirt would stop a 9mm at 50m.

I witnesses a VC get hit with at least half a mag from an Owen Gun & he ran away. We followed the blood trail but never found him. If you want to know what 9mm rounds hitting flesh is like at 15m get a hand full of marbles & drop them, one at a time, into a bucket of water. That's what flesh looks like when it's hit.

Steelie: Oh I am fully aware of the lobbying against, and the dilution of, our gun laws here in this country.

Welcome back. How come they let you back into the Country? By the way, I still waiting on answers to those questions I asked you yonks ago. Do you want them again?

I, too are against dilution of our Gun Laws. Reason. If everyone could have a weapon the Islamists would be stocking up like crazy. They are anyway but if they're caught we can do something about it. There is a mosque in Brisbane with two Containers buried under it. Apparently they stocked up when the Laws went into effect. Just going on what the builder told me.

By the way, I was a weapons instructor in a previous life. Anything from a Ging to a 106mm Recoilless Rifle plus 2", 3" & 81mm mortars. I've still got a Scab from a "Matilda Tank" from using Squash Head. That was a fun day. I just love L.A.W.'s, fired 40 M72's & 60 Gustave's in one day getting rid of old stock, another fun day on the range. I was in Townsville 2012 & shot a 266/300 on the Sniper Range. I hadn't fired a weapon since 87. The Range Supervisor was impressed. He said most of the Trained Soldiers now-a-days can't do that. Didn't pay for a drink that night in the Combined Mess. I was in Townsville in 2016 for "Cross of Gallantry Award" Parade & tried to talk them into giving me a L1A2 with a scope, just in case the mossies start a full scale war in Australia, you understand. They declined, but would keep me in mind. ;-)

Absolutely the M60 suppressive fire mops up a feral black personnel gang as well as the mountain cannon grape-shot does. I prefer the grape-shot for faster acquisition of target and reducing return fire.

“Using a Glock at 25m, 50m
Two out of three rounds on a figure 11 at 25 m will hit sideways. 15m is maximum accuracy at 50m, anyone within a 5m radius is in danger. Luckily though a T Shirt would stop a 9mm at 50m"

Are you vying for the comedy award too?

The police do need rifles.

It is to be expected though that they are not referring to the modern arms they will be issued with as 'assault', 'automatic', 'sniper' and the other negative emotive, sensationalist words they use where civilian rifles, even Daisy air rifles, are concerned. Looks matter a great deal where duly registered and lawfully owned civilian arms are concerned. Police Politics, played by the upper echelon, who are worried about their careers. Who was that big, blue woman in Victoria some years ago?

I am wondering though what 'gun controls' the lunar Greens and their 'gun control' mates sponsored by currency billionaire George Soros will be demanding for the police semi-automatic rifles? The very least would be an armoured vehicle with numerous padlocks.
-To prevent the dangerous, wilful gun from escaping of its own volition and inflicting mass homicide. Guns do that you know, just ask the hysterical hoplophobes on OLO.

Time to forget the instrument, the tool of harm, which could be anything, a fist, fire. bomb or vehicle and to understand and deal with the human who decides to commit crimes.

Although the Greens and other hanky-wringers are so very soft where offenders are concerned. They are also so dismissive of the rights of victims of crime and the vulnerable public.

Is Mise: Are you vying for the comedy award too?

No, unfortunately. Oh, alright, a T-Shirts a bit thin, but a thick Lumberjack Shirt at 50m. A 9mm would be flat out penetrating it. You would get a hefty bruise though.

nnn: Absolutely the M60 suppressive fire mops up a feral black personnel gang as well as the mountain cannon grape-shot does. I prefer the grape-shot for faster acquisition of target and reducing return fire.

Living a fantasy again Nick. Are you talking about using a shot gun. You have to get dam close & use man shot, that's 5 5mm pieces in a round. You have to get dam close for them to be effective. If you are talking about normal Duck shot then all you do is make people mad. If you are talking about Canister or Splintex then you are talking about Artilery.

I do like Claymores. I was there at the time & place at 2 R.A.R. when Lenny lost his legs. As we used to say, "What's got 800 ball & F@*&S everything." These are a bit heavy to use on Civies though, don't you think?

Is Mise, how many times have you been on a 25m range, inspected the Fig, 11's & found lots of brass still imbedded in the 3 ply? Lots, I'll bet.

Back on page 2 at the end :
This little dude was used in the Civil War and at this light weight it will comfortably ride on your cab roof.
"12-pounder Mountain Howitzer bronze.
220 lbs"
-
Tactical operations :
"Since it would be rather difficult to hit a deer with a Mountain Howitzer Cannon that used a single 12 pound cast iron ball, ( even an exploding one ) and because down range fall-out ( from 1000 to 1500 yards ) would be a factor with that single 4-1/2" diameter ball, it would be more practical to use a standard load of what was called "Canister Shot".
A standard load of canister shot for the 12 pound Mountain Howitzer Cannon - is 148 individual lead balls, specifically, .69 caliber ( dia ) lead "musket balls". Total weight of this load is about 10-1/4 pounds. Velocity of the load is approximately 1000 feet per second, being lethal to about 250 yards.

The nice thing about using a canister shell in the Mountain Howitzer, is that each individual .69 cal lead ball weighs 1-1/4 ounces. This is exactly the same size and weight of a standard 12 gauge shotgun slug.

Casting the needed 148 lead balls takes a bit of time, and lots of lead. It is not necessary to have perfect balls (?) but check the weight of each to insure that none of them have large internal voids which could affect their accuracy."

Jayb,

"Is Mise, how many times have you been on a 25m range, inspected the Fig, 11's & found lots of brass still imbedded in the 3 ply? Lots, I'll bet"

Never, but then we were using WWII left over ammo.

One of my 'party' tricks was to shoot a figure target at 400 yards with the Owen gun.
The sight picture was base of the target on top of the rere sight and the top of the target just being touched by the underside of the fore sight mount. all shots would penetrate.
Likewise 44 gallon rubbish drums at the side of the range, depending on age/condition they would be penetrated on one side or severely dented/split.
I did know of one Chinese soldier who took a full magazine from an Owen, his heavy winter uniform saved him but he was knocked unconscious and taken prisoner.

I fired a 9mm Glock last Sunday at the range and managed to group 8 inches at 50 metres, which is not good by target standards but far, far better than your estimates and those of the police spokesman; admittedly our police are generally bad shots.
My youngest daughter was a firearms instructor in one of our police forces and she could tell some horror tales about lack of police competence.

By the way, the Bren can be made to spray its shots by fitting a worn barrel nut, our savvy gunners always had a worn nut to use when called for, but NEVER when giving overhead covering fire!!

Is Mise: One of my 'party' tricks was to shoot a figure target at 400 yards with the Owen gun.

1300fps at the muzzle the Velocity drops dramatically from there. At 400yds, according to the chart. about 950fps. Of course that's the old ammo we were using. I believe they up graded after the debacle in Vietnam in 65. The new age 9mm is 1500fps Mv, so at 400 it's still travelling at 1300fps. Standard 9mm Parabellum is still listed at 1300fps. I guess we must have still been getting rid of old ammo back in Australia for many years when using the F1. Pistol ammo has a lower MV at 1000fps. All very confusing now-a-days.

Of course Barrel length does make a difference The Glock has a 5" barrel,the Owen a 9.75" & the F1 with a 7.75" Barrel. The blow back action of the Owen & the F1 does drop the MV a bit. Just physics.

" I do like Claymores.. These are a bit heavy to use on Civies though, don't you think?"

No.

Jayb,

The British .38-200 pistol round has a MV of 620 fps; would you stand in front of one and take a pill on your lumberjack shirt?

NNN,

Indigenous use steel star picket nulla nullas to sort domestic disagreements.

Superior technology? No, better availability and economy of movement. They don't have to scour bush for a good one when there are so many just standing there.

Calibre? Who cares, cop this!

Spiritual progress will direct the placid devotees to respond to violence with calmness. If a gang demands your wallet then hand over your Claymore. Peace brother.

Australian star pickets don't bend with abuse like the inferior imported ones.

Indigenous have some things to thank those peaceful settlers for.

Is Mise: The British .38-200 pistol round has a MV of 620 fps; would you stand in front of one and take a pill on your lumberjack shirt?

A velocity of 630 ft/s (189 m/s) at the muzzle, and over 570 feet (170 m) per second at 50 yards (46 m). That's a drop of 60 fps in 50 Metres. Now double that for the next 50m & then double that for every 50m thereafter. Using the Inverse relationships Theory. At 400m, yes, I think I'd be safe even if it got that far. Mind you, I'd have to wear my Flannel shirt on my head. ;-)

With resistance drag being velocity squared Area a speed bowler loses his grip on power at 20 metres. This gives the advantage to grape-shot at feral range with low co-efficient of resistance.

Jayb,

" Luckily though a T Shirt would stop a 9mm at 50m"

So why do you want to go out to 400 when faced with an inferior .38 revolver?

I am not stepping into that discussion except to say that on the range there are some light pistol loads used for targets.

A modern factory load hollowpoint 9mm will punch a neat hole through 50mm structural pine at 200X and would likely do the same at 400X, or 600X. Maximum range of harm - be guided by the manufacturer.

I sympathise with police officers who may not get enough regular practice, esp in a realistic situation. That make a big difference. Police should have their subs and expenses, mileage and ammunition, paid for a pistol club and range of their choice.

Where they are required to use a long arm and yes, a semi-automatic rifle [F88 Austeyr] should be carried in the boot of police vehicles and by officers in public at their discretion, their practise should also be catered for.

For interest, 9mm at 1,000X and rang the steel plate. You wouldn't like to be catching the bullet in your flannelette pocket,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jJ3XwizTqDw#t=0

Is mise: So why do you want to go out to 400 when faced with an inferior .38 revolver?

Less chance of getting hit, eh. ;-)

The 9mm ammo we used in Vietnam had a MV of 980fps, Pistol ammo. Then thye uped it to 1300 with the new ammo for the F1.

Come to think of it, aren't the Police Glocks .4", not 9mm?

OK Nick, you can play too.

leoj: 9mm at 1,000X and rang the steel plate.

Special Pistol & Special ammo, 148 Grain load. That would blow an ordinary 9mm pistol to bits. That's a big difference to 117/123 Grain for Pistol/ Submachine Pistols.

Still, a bloody good shot. About 150 feet up & one hell of a drop. Did you notice that the target Rang like a bell when he hit it with his hand?