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The Forum > General Discussion > Australia is Different

Australia is Different

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Hey SteeleRedux,
I spent a few hours considering your criticism and position; and whether you're right that I should take a good hard look at myself.

I often make harsh criticisms, and many times it will be from a point of view that others mightn't consider.
I like to think for myself and not follow a herd-mentality and I don't hold an opinion for the purposes of being 'pleasing to others'.
Also however, by my rules, if someone else proves me wrong fairly, then I will happily concede the argument and accept their criticism rather that argue from a position of 'ego'; or 'not wanting to accept I was wrong'.

I gave your position a lot of consideration, and I wanted to concede I was wrong.
I tried to; but I just can't accept that I'm entirely wrong.

For someone who's lost a daughter maybe I did go too far, I'm willing to accept that.
In respect to the tragic loss of her daughter she should have our full condolences.
But does she hold a position of 'immunity from criticism' regarding her own statements? I'm not so sure.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-08/mia-ayliffe-chungs-mother-criticises-white-house-terrorism-claim/8250410

Then it occurred to me to think about it in a different way.
Instead of 'Radical Islam' what if this discussion were about 'Government Travel Rorts'?

- In response to that topic I've often said 'We need to put them in jail. If we let them get away with it then the next time it happens it won't just be their fault; it will also be ours, for not doing anything when we should've'.

In the same way, if we don't speak out against 'Radical Islam' then the next time it happens do we not have to take some of the blame ourselves for not denouncing it and doing more to stand united against it when we had the opportunity to do so?

So I honestly can't accept that I'm completely wrong, nor will I retract what I said (especially after watching the video) but I will accept your points and that maybe I was a little too harsh.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 10 February 2017 11:12:24 AM
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I have to stand by my original statements SteeleRedux, the way I see it I really don't have any choice.
I know the comments may be distasteful, but to retract them; to not criticise what Mia's mum said would in my opinion be equal to giving my silent approval to 'Radical Islam' and what the perpetrator did, and I just can't do that.

If the following arguments are true:

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

- Then I truly do not believe I'm wrong for my criticism of Mia's mums 'Muslim Apologist' statements.
I stand firmly against acts of violence containing elements of radical Islamic extremism and I believe I that I'm doing the right thing morally by openly doing so.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 10 February 2017 12:23:20 PM
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AC,

You are perfectly correct in what you say, and that's the end of the matter. There is no point in arguing with an idealogical idiot like steeleredux, who has serious problems he tries to solve by spraying his nasty bile at all and sundry. Move on, my friend; steelredux is a dropkick.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 10 February 2017 1:32:07 PM
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//would in my opinion be equal to giving my silent approval to 'Radical Islam' and what the perpetrator did, and I just can't do that.//

What does 'what the perpetrator did' have to do with 'Radical Islam', AC? Beyond shouting a phrase that any person capable of pronouncing the correct phonemes (most people - some Asians may struggle, and end up crying 'Arahu Akbal' instead) can shout?

The Qld. Police, who investigated the matter, have stated that there was no connection with 'Radical Islam'. Indeed, the facts have shown that the murderer was not even a Muslim, let alone a radical one. If I shout 'Allahu Ackbar' when I commit crimes, would that make me a 'Radical Islamsist' even though I'm a baptised-but-reformed Catholic of Irish heritage? What about if I shouted the Rosary? Would I be a 'Radical Catholic', even though I don't believe in God, miracles, saints, the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, the Bible or the Canon of the Church? Do people who get yin-yang symbols tattooed because they look nice but don't what they mean, then commit a crime, do so in the name of 'Radical Taoism'?

Do you really believe that the conclusions you jump to on the basis of scant factual information are actually more sound than those formed by experienced detectives through a painstaking and thorough process of investigation?

There's that old AC arrogance coming through again - your fundamental unwillingness to accept that there might possibly be anybody in the world who knows more about something you've firmly made your mind up about. Are you a narcissist?

//You are perfectly correct in what you say//

I guess that depends on your metric... I prefer facts, but I hear a lot of people are into what the Americans call 'alternative facts', the English call 'bollocks' and us Aussies call 'bullsh!t' these days.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 10 February 2017 7:18:15 PM
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Dear Armchair Critic,

Oh Jesus wept, did you really just quote “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.“?
Mate, this isn't about you being silent rather about conducting yourself like a normal human being who can put an opposing point of view without such denigration. Nor is it, by any stretch of fantasy, about you facing up to tyranny. You attacked her from behind the mask of anonymity. There is no courage in what you did only cowardliness. The fight against tyranny is not prosecuted at the feet of a grieving mother.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”?

Good men don't feel the need to do what you did. Your 'something' was pathetic, self serving, ideologically driven nastiness. There was certainly no morality on display.

However let me acknowledge your introspection. Some here are entirely incapable of it. You conceded you went too far and acknowledged partial wrongdoing to a degree.

But I reject completely your attempts of mitigation.

Your attack on this woman was unjustifiable under any circumstances but also based on the false premise that her daughter's death was the result of Islamic extremism. Something rejected by her, the Queensland police and the French anti-terrorist force.

Mia's killer was clearly suffering some form of psychosis. Not only did he cry 'Ali Akbar' but he also sang the bloody La Marseillaise during the attack. Are we now going to ban all Frenchmen? You claim the right to absolutely pillory this poor woman based on your dismissal of the appraisal of two far more knowledgeable agencies than you my friend.

You were spurred on by our resident pustule, and your ideology did not allow any appreciation of the facts of the case nor the people involved.

You neither had the need, nor the right, nor the reason other than your blinkered point of view to have done what you have.

Desperately bad form.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 10 February 2017 9:50:43 PM
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Hey Toni,
Trust you to smell blood in the water and have your 2 cents...
I'm tired and irritable and I don't want to argue, I'll give you points for your effort though...
But for everyone else that wants to hassle me, I just want to say no matter how ANY OF YOU want to try and package it with pretty paper and a bow, I'm not going to give radical Islam a free pass, and I don't care what any of you say.
If you want to support ISIS ideology that's your business, just don't expect me to willingly go along with it.

Ok? Now that I've said that...

No, it wasn't just the cries of "Allah Ackbar" on it's own; it was the frenzied stabbing / cold blooded murder of two innocent people (as well as a dog I believe) during the cries of "Allah Ackbar" that gives me cause to give 'Radical Islam' the benefit of the doubt.

Regarding the Police investigation; an important thing to note is that they categorise these things as 'terrorist incidents' based on a proven connection to a terrorist organisation and not the extent of the act itself.

Referring to 'Radical Islam' or 'Islamic Extremism' in my opinion simply refers to an ideology, one well and truly demonstrated in the Home Hill Massacre.

Can anyone here present a logical reason why someone might start murdering numerous people in a psychotic frenzied stabbing attack screaming "God is Great"??

Can ANYONE here give me a reason why I should consider this behavior normal?
Or that it should be written off and normalised as the cost of religious freedom, par for the course or any other insane reason at all; then I'm all ears..
Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Does ANYONE AT ALL HERE want to stand up and openly give this behavior a free pass?

I'm still not going give this behavior a free pass, or allow others to normalise it.
Not now, and not ever.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 10 February 2017 10:17:08 PM
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