Like any race on earth, you have your good and you have your bad, however, the problem with Muslims is Islam.

I say this because heaven forbid, should Australian Muslims, in fact global Muslims ever find themselves in a position where they have to decide to pledge alliance to the country they live in, or Islam, do you honestly think they will ignore the call to Islam.

This is not a bigoted or racist comment, it is simply a realistic question and one that really needs to be asked.

Many outstanding muslims but 1400 years of Islam speaks for itself. Only secularism could surpass it with its violence, murdering of the young and embracing of lies.

Yes, Islam is a problem. Unless we can convince Muslims that their religion is nonsense, or unless their education levels in Western countries reach a point to which they abandon their mythology in significant numbers, then I suspect that secularism will have to do what it has managed to do with Christianity: drag it kicking and screaming to the point where its adherents have been pacified and interpret and cherry pick their doctrine in a way that is more acceptable to modern Western societies.

Although there is still a way to go with Christians in that respect too, so I’m not confident that we’ll see significant progress with Islam as a whole in our lifetimes (especially when a Muslim sharing a dialogue with an atheist could enrage even moderate Muslims more that it would if they were to talk to the leader of ISIS, cf. Maajid Nawaz). I mean, just imagine if Christians were forced to pledge allegiance to their country over their faith? The US would have a second civil war on its hands with a well-armed and very pissed militia. It’s just as well most Christians in the US think their constitution was written by Jesus and establishes them as a Christian nation.

Islam is not the only religion whose doctrine is sometimes incompatible with a loyalty to the country in which one resides and the laws of its land.

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:37-39)

1915 Anzacs were in Egypt which wanted freedom from Turks. Diggers sailed past Syria which wanted.. Maybe some of Lawrence's tribesmen could have out-witted the Imperial British Command and actually held the top of Lone Pine. A few Afghans from the outback might have come in handy. Don't mention the jihadi , suicide bombers are not decent you know.

Posted by AJ Philips, Monday, 19 September 2016 7:18:20 PM

" ... Islam is not the only religion whose doctrine is sometimes incompatible with a loyalty to the country in which one resides and the laws of its land. ... "

Indeed, some self professed Christians are very much like their zealous Islamic counterparts i.m.o. but that is not all bad. I do not find Theocracies always to be desirable, but neither do I find them to be entirely without merit.

Australia however appears to have a different view entirely on this as dual nationality is acceptable here and maybe that is another debate to be had. In my families case, whilst Australian citizenship is partly desirable, it would unfortunately come at the cost of the loss of Indonesian citizenship, associated property rights etc etc

In the case of those who wanted to fight with ISIS, I would have, being satisfied that they really understood the Australian position, allowed them to leave on mass understanding that their citizenship was revoked and that they would be deported to legal limbo and thereafter treated as enemy combatants.

Neither would I have binned OBL's body but would have rather returned it. .. Now you have enemies that respect almost nothing.

Thereafter, if you were to wave Islam away with a magic wand with what exactly would you replace it, or rather I shudder to think what would come out of its ashes as Islam is also a great discipline. .. What time to wake, what time to work, what time to rest, what time to wash, what time to pray, what to wear etc etc It binds and unites families at a very fundamental level and as long as they go to Mosque on Friday I have always found them to be welcoming. They may limit what they wish to discuss, but they will at least talk.

What? To be a Muslim, one must practice the teachings from the Qu'ran...Muslim is a person who follows Islam.

@AJ Philips, let's portray Christianity as it is written in the Holy Bible. Not one part of the doctrine only as outlined in your post..

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:37-39)
Posted by AJ Philips, Monday, 19 September 2016 7:18:20 PM

Nothing complicated about that, it says value and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ above all else, not the values or teachings of any other mortal human being, regardless of blood kin or not.

.... and if we follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, he also has this to say about how to separate church from state...

Matthew 22:17-22 (as extracted from KJV w/ apocrypha)

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said , Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription ?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22 When they had heard these words,they marvelled , and left him, and went their way .

This applies to ALL religions, it's how one interprets any given doctrine. Only been going on since religion was conceptualized in humanity.