Here here
Ludwig

Why can't the NT make its own decisions? Under Howard, we have never had so much centralised power overturning the NT. Surely the Territorian Government has the maturity to make the decision with some consultation.

It is also heavy handed to impose this upon Aboriginal people as "them and us". This is sounding closer to apartheid than giving people responsibilities over their own lives.

Yes, alcohol is bad for the Aboriginal communities. Consultation with the elders would have at least empowered them to own their own rules. Similar with child abuse. If people don't own their own responsibility, do you honestly believe they will follow prohibition from 3,000 km away from megalomaniacs like Howard who never lets the NT consult with anything?

Similar to Malcolm Turnbull who would rather take over all of Australia's rivers rather than consult with the states and farmers? We could at least own responsibility over changing the way we manage water. But no, they treat us like a nation of idiots.

This Government is as patronising as it is draconian in how it does business. When will Australians get out of this habit sparing to rod to satisfy their masochistic tendencies? The outcome I may agree with, but the way in which this is imposed is most disturbing.

pale again not trying to be funny or smart but I am forced to say I have zero respect for your thought pattens.
My concerns for the Aboriginals is real, I have in other threads on this subject stated clearly that MY ALP.
Yes the party I am welded to for life, in the NT is very much at fault on this issue, that the lunatic who is running the ACT from my side is , well an idiot.
That the WA reaction is petty and unwise.
There! can I say you should read others posts slowly and clearly before you aim your spite filled posts?
That ANY PERSON ANY PARTY, who uses the pain ,some of it very much self inflicted of this community to score political points is a GRUB!
Aware you find it hard to over come your personal biases I found some good in your up page post and agreed a true job is a needed start but sorry no other poster so consistently lets bias get in the way of debate in these pages, you have my sympathy but not my respect.

Saintfletcher.

“Why can't the NT make its own decisions?”

I get the feeling that if there wasn’t an election looming, the Feds would have worked with the Territory government on this issue instead of steamrolling them and then expecting them to come on board. The NT government had certainly been working on the issues. OK so Howard decided that faster stronger action was needed. But this shouldn’t have been an excuse to just complete overtop Clare Martin (Chief Minister and Minister for indigenous policy).

“It is also heavy handed to impose this upon Aboriginal people as ‘them and us’. This is sounding closer to apartheid than giving people responsibilities over their own lives.”

Yes. But just look at the absolutely terrible ‘them and us’ apartheid situation that has always existed. It is one of the great ironies that a heavy-handed more dispossessive policy is apparently needed in order to reduce the extent of this gaping chasm between ‘mainstream’ and indigenous Australians in terms of quality of life.

“Consultation with the elders would have at least empowered them to own their own rules.”

Yes. But consultation hasn’t worked very well overall has it. You might be able to point to a few dry (alcohol-free) communities, but for the same level of consultation, there are many more communities that didn’t deal with the alcohol problem themselves and didn’t condone outside regulation, and continue to live with the terrible consequences.

Of course consultation is desirable. And of course we desire just the same rules to apply to all Australians. But arguably it is these desires that have greatly hindered efforts to effectively deal with the issues.

continued

“If people don't own their own responsibility, do you honestly believe they will follow prohibition…”

Many won't. A strong enforcement regime is needed. But this is the same for most things in mainstream society. Many ordinary people are generally pretty damn poor at owning responsibility, and will break the law if they think they won’t get caught, whether or not they believe in the merit of the particular law they are breaking.

“This Government is as patronising as it is draconian in how it does business.”

Relatively speaking, you are probably right. But you could also say that this government hasn’t been anywhere near effective enough in all sorts of ways, despite working with the states, seeking expert studies, allowing for public consultation, etc. So perhaps a stronger government is just what we need. Unfortunately I think it is impossible for most people to view a stronger government as not being more patronising or draconian.

“The outcome I may agree with, but the way in which this is imposed is most disturbing.”

Yeah but the results (the many decades of worse-than-third-world conditions in indigenous communities) of not implementing a strong rule of law are vastly more disturbing.

the great contribution of tamerlane to sociology, was to demonstrate that it was not necessary to have a program to deal with the losers. unfortunately, western society didn't learn the lesson.

consequently the world is littered with losers, here in australia they are the aboriginal people. since the local government was neither willing to apply the tamerlane solution, nor willing to make any other solution to the ghosts who infested this 'no one's land', they remain a living testimony to humanities insensitivity to pain felt by people who aren't 'us'.

while i am able and willing to excoriate any government, and give them a 50 meter headstart, i can't think what they should do, that the average ozzie taxpayer/voter would welcome. the shame of this situation goes from top to bottom, side to side.