Will the hard won and expensive (for the public) experience of the Victorian government pass on to other federal, State and Territory jurisdictions?

Better yet, will the unelected alternative government of Australia, 'their' ABC, 'fact check'(LOL) that handling young thugs with kid gloves doesn't work and can have the opposite effect, establishing a pattern of offending, predicting serious offending later in life?

Victoria's learning experience
<'Sob stories' no excuse for crime: Andrews
AUGUST 7, 2016

Youths caught in a crackdown on home invasions and carjackings will not be able to hide behind "sob stories" as an excuse for their violent crimes, says Victoria's premier.
Operation Cosmas has netted 129 arrests since May - mostly youths under 18 - over a wave of violent home invasions and carjackings across Victoria.
Premier Daniel Andrews said on Sunday some offenders were as young as 13, they come from a variety of backgrounds and were often repeat offenders.
Mr Andrews said while it was "sometimes fashionable" to talk about how people could have difficulties in life "no one will be accepting sob stories in the face of these violent crimes".
"Aggravated burglary, carjacking, home invasions, these sorts of crimes are completely unacceptable and no Victorian is prepared to excuse this sort of behaviour because you've had a hard deal in life or because your circumstances aren't how you'd like them to be," he said.
The Premier threatened that anyone caught "will be put inside" and "feel the full force of the law".
"This is unacceptable in a modern Victoria, we will not make excuses for it, we will not seek to explain it away, we will instead make sure Victoria Police has the powers and resources they need," he said.
Deputy Commissioner Andrew Crisp said it was a "significantly worrying trend" that it was a smaller number of offenders, committing more crimes, at a younger age..>
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/vic-crime-crackdown-nets-129/news-story/fa96b4c1d81a9f416d67899a5e01c6ad

Hi OTB,

At the risk of seeming to support Premier Andrews, I think he may be right. Perhaps Social Services in Victoria should develop courses and counselling for parents in what their obligations may be in city environments, and of course the youth involved should be sympathetically rather than punitively guided through similar courses in social integration.

For some ethnic groups, being dropped into urban environments like Melbourne's, really does involve a dramatic change in parenting responsibilities, just at a time when they themselves are trying to adjust as well, to find work, to recover from trauma, to pick up the pieces of their lives.

Another set of wicked problems.

Cheers,

Joe

The big question is, will a Left wing government actually put common sense into practice. Everybody knows that there has to be a serious crackdown on thugs; we don't need one of the dopiest politicians in Australia to tell us that. But Andrews has proven himself to all mouth and trousers, so the 'great plan' is unlikely to take hold in Victoria, let alone spread throughout the country. History shows that Australian politicians are incapable of protecting their citizens.

Hi there LOUDMOUTH...

You present some interesting thoughts on youth crime Joe, particularly some estranged ethnic groups not understanding nor knowing how to embrace city life in a large metropolis like Melbourne. Sympathetic as I am to their plight, it's still the responsibility of the parents of these groups, despite the difficulties they're encountering, to ensure they provide all the necessary protection and proper parenting, for their children in this puzzling new environment they find themselves in.

Hi there TTBN...

Yet again you've correctly identified the root cause of the majority of youth crime, committed in our big cities ! The protracted political paralysis of many of our political leaders to take pro-active and positive action, against ALL crime. Rather than simply emerging from their comfortable officers at election time; promising everything, and if re-elected, delivering nothing thereafter !

Many people have to serve a probation period simply when starting a new job. Surely for us to let anyone into our country it would not be asking too much for them to serve an official probation period.

I believe that a 2 year period of exemplify behaviour, when any misdemeanour by any member of a family meant instant deportation, regardless of the state of their homeland. This could be followed by a 5 year period where any criminal act against any person would draw the same fate.

It would have to be mandatory, with no exception for any type of so called mitigating circumstances, or some clown magistrate or minister would stop the system working.

I believe good behaviour is a habit, rather in the same way that bad behaviour is. After 5 years of behaving adequately to avoid deportation, there is a reasonable chance a pattern could have been set for these thugs, which would help them in the future, to live happy lives.

Those who were deported really don't matter, as they are a waste of space in any country.

Hi O Sung Wu & HasBeen,

Yes, that's right, and maybe both parents and their children are bound to break conventional rules early on BUT you would have thought that social workers with the Immigration Department, would have enough experience now of groups coming to Australia from very, very different political, social and economic backgrounds, to devise support programs for the parents and through them, for the kids.

I guess that's the point about a refugee intake - the people involved will, very likely, come from situations which are very different from what they will experience in Australia. You would have thought that Immigration people would have been ready for that inevitability ?

Cheers,

Joe

It is about time the law regarding some criminal convictions committed as a child are suppressed is changed.

Any convictions for assault, sex offenses or assault in company as well as multiple convictions for the same offense should show up when the person is an adult.

If the offenders are repeat offenders, the following should apply.

1. If they are not natural born Aussies, deport them and their families.
2. If they are Aussies, lock them away and charge the parents for the costs. If they don't work (the parents) then take $20 per week from both their centerlink payments then start charging the offender once they turn 18 or have a paying job. If this means paying for the rest of their lives, tough titties.
At the end of the day, the parents are the one who brought these kids into the world and like it or not, they must be held accountable. Take out insurance cover if they have to, but we must stop wasting our taxes on these thugs.

What we are talking about here is commonly known as criminology but before making blanket comments about why youths turn to crime etc.. we should be asking ourselves if this kind of behavior is genetic? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_criminal_behaviour#Genetics

IF this is true then the repercussions for society facing up to the facts about this antisocial behavior will be staggering and revolutionary to say the least..

Even back in 2014, there were reports of studies done into this although the control group was confined to 900 in Finland > http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29760212

But now we have discussions about so called "warrior genes" > https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/07/29/does-the-human-warrior-gene-make-violent-criminals-and-what-should-society-do/

So what do we make of all this? as far as universal agreement from educated experts in these areas, its seems the jury is still out. One thing for sure though, that better methodology and technology based tools will produce deeper analysis and thus differing conclusions.
You could say that about any form of science today though.

Rojama: There has already been a massive experiment done on whether criminal behaviour is genetic or not. More than 150,000 criminals were placed on an isolated island and allowed to breed for several generations. The organisers of this believed that criminality was genetic and thought they were ridding their homeland of future problems.

Contrary to expectations, in the new environment the majority of the criminals turned over a new leaf and became successful members of society. Their children and subsequent descendants were even more successful. Their new country prospered so well that people from all over the world try to join them. And there was no decline in crime in their homeland.

I'm a descendant of about six of those criminals, and I'm not aware of any criminality in their descendants, who are by and large very conservative, and range from business people, to teachers and scientists.

Genetics plays a key part in human behaviour, but the environment in which the genetics play out is vital. The same genetically influenced behaviour - risk-taking, cleverness, survival instincts, street smarts - may lead to criminality in situations of war, poverty etc., but lead to entrepreneurialship, invention, and success where conditions are favourable.

Some of those refugee youths probably only survived because of their risk-taking behaviour, now in Australia they have difficulty in turning those same traits to productive use. Maybe because they feel they are still beleaguered here?

The difference between the oppressed & the oppressor in these African & middle eastern countries, is a matter of who won the last fight. In no way are even genuine refugees any better than their oppressors.

The moment they find our ultra gentle system they are encouraged in their thuggish behaviour.

Personally, & in my experience, most normal Ozzies don't give a damn if these people could become almost useful citizens. That it will cost us a fortune to support them is given. That many will personally suffer at the hands of these thugs is also a given.

Most of us can see no reason that we should suffer by allowing them to come here.

When we can no longer support our own, without huge deficits it is time to call enough, & stop this stupidity.

hasbeen:

I agree with you absolutely on this subject, however I would like to offer my opinion to further try to explain why we are now suffering so much youth violence or violence across the whole of society.

Parenting and growing up of children is fast becoming an "industry"
thanks to the warped values that have been enacted through our Parliamentary system, virtually paying women to have children, and then having the taxpayers pay for some of their upkeep.

I would point out that in this day and age, with all the "social enlightenment" there is NO reason at all for a woman to "accidentally" fall pregnant, unless of course by way of rape, which falls into a totally different category.

With this principle in mind, we must assume that a conception is a desired or planned event, and could appear to be somewhat financially rewarding to the mother to be. Unfortunately the cost of raising a child today is somewhat astronomical in comparison to the public financial benefits currently being handed out, thus a parent with half a brain quickly realizes the social and moral cost of parenthood.

In this age of "social enlightenment" the institution of Marriage has gradually been diminished, with the "partnership" arrangement replacing it. The problem being that in many cases, one partner decides to fly the coup (for better feeding grounds) leaving the remaining male or female ex-partner to carry the can, and the child/children.

Social problem exposed! Children from single parent "families" with little discipline or moral principles exercised, resulting in out of control offspring. Add to that the absolute garbage that passes for entertainment on the idiot box, the mass brainwashing by the MSM and our Politicians, coupled with the "bleeding hearts" who have made it illegal to physically punish a child for wrong-doing, and we have the material for budding hooligans!

The failure to stop violent crime derives from the false notion that someone other than the violent criminal who commits it is "responsible" for it. Assault other than in retaliation for assault is 100% a personal decision of the criminal to commit it. Not the parents. Not "society". Not the criminal's ancestry. Not bad potty training. Not DNA. Voluntary assault by the criminal himself or herself.

That includes domestic assault.

This voluntary assault is a declaration of war against the victim and against the law-abiding community, no less if the aggressor has been "dissed" or whatever by the victim, or has chosen to get intoxicated by any substance whatsoever. In self-protection the community must carry the war to the aggressor and slam him or her in the can as a POW to be released only when his or her war is demonstrably over.

The only way to win a war is to fight the enemy, not fight someone else..

Hi there HASBEEN...

As usual, I always agree with everything you say - it's called 'common sense' if such a term still exists, within our socially warped and contorted vernacular?

Hi there CRACKUP...

You my friend, have completely and accurately identified the root cause, the starting point for (most) youth criminality. As a retired copper, the number of times I would've delighted in charging, and/or belting some sense into some of these culpable parent(s), for totally abrogating their parental responsibility towards their children.

Ahh what's the bloody use, we've spoken about it, over and over and over again ! Nobody in power will listen, despite the loud outcry's, protestations, and pleadings of police, youth workers and a few enlightened magistrates, judicially presiding in the Children's Court.

The number of kids breaking their necks to go out to Long Bay, to enter the 'BIG' time, in order to impress their peers, so they'll be perceived as being so tough ! Yet when they arrive, despite being placed on protection ('Non Associate') their little white arse's are nevertheless laid bare so the legitimate 'heavies' in gaol, can have their way with them.

Perhaps first, we should send their injudicious parents there (Long Bay Gaol) for monumentally failing their children; and let them bare their irresponsible arse's, as an example to others so minded, for total parental failure ? The difficulty is of course, most have done time themselves ?