Please understand I know if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
But in the house it sometimes converts to Apes.
It hurts to know so very many kids ,wifes, and daughters the young and vulnerable have signed AWAs that give NO PAY RISES IN 5 YEARS!
How can this mob say workers must help the economy with reduced living standards while pay rises rarely matched in most workplaces take place?
Should by some nightmare John Howard be returned to power this country will take 20 years to recover.

Whats got you convinced someone else will be any different?.

Pay the polyticks another 200%. That way we might get some real talent in there, the present crop have failed dismally.

"Workchoices" seems like an interesting word considering that for some employees there is no 'choice' to be made. From the boss' perspective it's either "my way or the highway" - and all this while we are told there is almost full employment!

I think it's fine for politicians to get a pay rise provided that they have to demonstrate the same sorts of contributions to productivity or outcomes that the rest of us have to demonstrate when we ask for a pay rise.

Let's get them to ask a simple question "What did I ACHIEVE today?"

If the answer is not forthcoming let's not pay them more. This after all is the criterion by means of which they restrict OUR pay packets. Let's see what they can achieve if they have to have performance based pay!

"let's not pay them any more". garpet, pay close attention as i may not get a chance to say this another 100 times: nobody asked you what pollies should be paid. you can pretend to be a citizen, but you're not. you're a subject in a polliarchy. there, i got that in. do likewise, all of you.

the pollies say what you should be paid, instead. see the difference? they have power over you, not the reverse. mostly they don't bother you, of course. you're a free person. as free as a sheep in a paddock, anyway. now go have a nice munch of grass, and raise some more wool- the boss likes wooly sheep, as long as they don't get above themselves.

Hi Belly

The AWA that I signed and have seen others signed include performance reviews every year. The first year I received about an 8% pay rise and about 6% the next year. Considering my base rate was a lot higher than under the award I did extremely well. I am sure their is abuse and exceptions but nearly all I know who have been on AWA's are better off.

Pay pollies double what they get now, ban all trade unionists and public servants from entering politics until they have been out of the unions or so-called public service for at least five years. Put in place some media restraints so that they can no longer put the smallest infraction of pollies family and friends into the headlines and we might get some people of value in politics.
BUT don't tell me that workers in this country are underpaid. Australians in work get well paid...at the expense of some of their unpaid colleagues. A senior state public servant was boasting to me this week that they had got a project on track with a great deal of help from an unemployed professional. When I asked if the unemployed professional had been paid it was clear that the issue had not even been considered and then the reply came,"No, we couldn't afford that but she knows she has to do it anyway."
They have been getting a free (and highly professional) service from this person since 1989. I pointed that out and was told that she should not expect to be employed because she can get the Disability Support Pension and workers need the income more. It is an amazingly selfish attitude and a very common one - and one which leaves me wondering how those in full-time employment can put their hands up for a pay rise because she is by no means the only one...so it is not just the pollies who need to rethink their pay rises (although they do too).

I question the understanding of anyone who thinks ALL Australians who work are well paid.
And I question anyone who does not understand an AWA is both a tool for paying at the top or needed end of the scale.
And a far different thing than the imposed agreement presented at the bottom end as a sign this or you do not have a job document.
And few of those higher skilled and higher paid ask this union official for help.
But it remains true, unchallengingly true some 5 year agreements have been imposed without worker input.
This shambolic government knows it and refuses to release information on those agreements.
many take some public holidays, shift allowances, over time , and give no pay rises for those 5 years.
Have we so lost contact with Aussie mate ship that its ok I am alright is the new rule?
An understanding of workchoices and its true impacts now and the future if unchanged is worth gaining.

Belly' "An understanding of workchoices and its true impacts now and the future if unchanged is worth gaining."

The problem for many of us is that there is no evidence that anybody is telling us the truth. The unions and labor have pinned labors election hopes on a scare campaign based on workchoices. The union paper used by the government recently provided clear evidence of a willingness to misrepresent workchoices for that end. I'd seen enough in my workplace to give that impression without the leak but it was interesting to see it spelled out.

Howard and others clearly are not telling us the full story either. The suggestion that workers who did not like what they were offered should change jobs ignored the difficulty that poses for many of us.
Older workers with accrued sick leave (which is not transportable), others who have limited options by way of transport and available work hours to meet parenting responsibilities (single working parents etc) may not find it viable to find a suitable position which allows them to meet their responsibilities.

The thing that scared me most was not workchoices but workchoices in the hands of the Queensland government.

R0bert

Politics -
"Poly" meaning "many" and
"Ticks" meaning "blood-sucking parasites".

I would prefer candidates who have a genuine interest in creating a better society - not career opportunists chasing dollars.

If they want real social parity for working conditions and salary, let's see them do the same for their more than generous Superannuation conditions as well.
That way we wouldn't have to sell public assets to fund their pensions.

Oh, and Runner, I'm also under an AWA but my conditions are LESS than those my compatriots enjoy under the Award system.

RObert I think you can take it for granted no one truly understands the full impact of workchoices.
A list of questions put to my local member shows he a government member has zero understanding.
That all inclusive word unions, it one day must be known a difference exists between unions and the methods they use.
But if only! if only unions had the ability to drive the ALP!
It is never going to happen ,consider the Rudd years in Queensland politics.
workchoices however, forget the radicals, the lost children of the far left, takes away my right to represent my members.
Not to scream abuse at a boss, not to insult him just to sit at a table and say fair go mate lets talk!
Do you truly want your team to work for less than the bloke down the road?
Workchoices gives the boss the right to make the wrong choice!
One of south east Asia's biggest construction firms is unaware its best personnel are about to walk away mid project because they have a better deal else ware, one that says a worker can be an asset not the enemy.
Far more than workchoices will condemn Howard to his party's worse ever defeat on election night.
Your mob have let their own side down and murdered a mandate that should have been used other than as a weapon against so many who voted for them.

As this thread slips away under the weight of duplicated threads I think it needs rounding of.
Some of the politicians who benefit from the pay rise ,not all but too many from all sides of the house would be better used as day labour in a rubbish tip.
And still be under skilled for the job.
However some have no idea that workchoices is being used by some truly bad people, can any one think no boss is bad?
To not only reduce the living standards of those who work for them but their human rights too.
This government is running every add it can in every news paper it can on any subject to hide its true nature.
Seen the small business adds informing them how to bargain? collective bargaining?
Understand that?
That the intent of workchoices in practice is to Dennie workers that right?
That while high income AWAs are one thing the imposed one at the lower end are another .
Roll away thread under the weight of another non existent research student but Australia will remember on election night.

Why is it that people seem to think that the more you pay the better quality of politicians you are getting. More likely the better crooks you are getting. The more money there is in the job the more crooks are interested in it.
Look at the High Court of Australia, the judges are well paid but in my view incompetent in certain constitutional issues. WorkChoices was if anything a clear example! The Court simply concealed from its judgments very relevant details as otherwise it had to acknowledge that WorkChoices was in fact unconstitutional!
See also my blog http://au.360.yahoo.com/profile-ijpxwMQ4dbXm0BMADq1lv8AYHknTV_QH and my website http://www.schorel-hlavka.com

Politicians, prior to federation, did not get paid for being in Parliament and it would be nonsense to say they didn’t do a proper job.

In my view the politicians are being overpaid by far and that is why they have a non caring attitude far too often because they know they got the electors by the b… and they force you to vote for one or the other regardless that constitutionally no one can be forced to vote! (See my blog)

In my INSPECTOR_RIKATI® book series I have set out why the High Court of Australia was so wrong in its 14 November 2006 judgment about WorkChoices. However, WorkChoices does not personally affect me and so I have done the work as a “constitutionalist” to expose the truth and now it is for others to use it if they desire to do so.

Don’t complain about WorkChoices, politicians pay, etc, if you are dumb enough to vote for them! At least I refused to vote and the Court upheld my constitutional right that I do not have to vote if I do not desire to do so!