With the situation that occurred in the Aboriginal community just recently, whereby the police seemingly ignored two females having a punch up, it would appear to be a case of a 'dammed if we do, dammed if we don't' reaction from the frustrated police, and seriously, who can blame them.

We pour billions into this very small minority of people who, rather than appreciating this, seem more focussed on issues such as;
claiming to have had their land stolen from them, land which they did nothing to, or, the apology from Kevin Rudd over the stolen generation ,which I was very opposed to at the time and still am.

If the police intervene they face one, being classed as racist, two, the chances of another attention seeking death in custody, and a distant third, that being actually capable of achieving a positive outcome.

Is it little wonder they may well have appeared to have given up.

I wish the government would give up at times, so the wasted taxes could go to some other worthy cause, hopefully one that would appreciate the billions.

I say it's time for us to take a stand and say, enough is enough!

Hey Rehctub,
You guys know I'm not too fond of PC but this: "attention seeking death in custody".

Come on Rehctub, I don't think anyone deliberately gets killed in police custody over petty infringements of the law for attention, these aren't the refugees setting themselves alight.

I know its a lot of wasted taxes (I'm not fond of that aspect) and that's probably because the past plans were flawed and invented by bureaucratic and budget policy making fools, but that's an altogether different topic.

Remember, its foreigners that brought money here and took their land, before that they had NO NEED for money or houses or clothes... or pretty much anything else.

If you can't come up with some genuine mutually beneficial solutions then the 'default' solution must be that all foreigners should get back on boats and leave and let them go back to living how they used to before foreigners came here and before they ever needed money, instead of insisting that it's right and just for us to impose upon them, is it not?

We need a win-win solution, not one that simply satisfies budget issues.

BTW I thought the smaller girl held her own pretty well in that fight.
I wish there had've been better footage and we could've seen the ending and without the cop getting in the way, and also there was a lack of swearing which may have otherwise contributed to the overall entertainment value.

Welcome to Australia, haven't you been here long?

Rechtub

The reason I believe the police did not intervene is because the mob would of turned on them. It would not be the first time. My mate once rang the police when a man was given his woman a flogging. When the police arrived both the man and woman turned on the police.

Rehctub "I say it's time for us to take a stand and say, enough is enough!"

By that, do you mean we shouldn't give any welfare money to any communities that have members that commit violence against each other?
Or would that just be the Aboriginal communities? If so, why wouldn't we do this for other violent groups of people?
Wouldn't that be rather obvious racism if we did that?

If we did stop giving welfare money to these sorts of Aboriginal communities, would we leave the kids there? Is it these kids fault?

Of course not!
We have to work towards a solution, because there has to be solutions.
We can't just say that it is all too hard because all the money thrown at it hasn't worked so far. If we do that, then we are no better than common criminals...

Suze, you have hit the nail on the head with the word 'money', as this is mistake number one. Stop paying them, and any welfare recipient cash. Retirees being the exception.

As for the kids, if we leave them there we know we leave them in harms way, yet, if we remove them (my preference) we face another stolen generation backlash. It's a loose loose either way.

Arm Chair, what right did the Aborigines have to disposes the original inhabitants of their land? Or what right did they have to start killing innocent animals?

The time is fast approaching where we wont have the cash to waste. Then what. Do we cut more from our health, education, pensions?

I still recall a young bloke belting the daylights out of his beloved up on the Mission. She was on her hands and knees semi-conscious when he place-kicked her. Over she went, flat on her back. We were told not to intervene, otherwise his father would bring out his spears. After a few minutes, the poor girl got up and staggered off into the bush. I never saw her again.

Why do people do that ? Apart from the cultural aspects, which are probably real enough, is it possible that people are bored sh!tless doing nothing all day ? That they take out petty grievances on each other ? Maybe that might explain brothers going at it, and sisters too for that matter. And uncles and nephews. And aunts and nieces. Etc. Etc. Etc. Christ, no wonder people look so bunged up at thirty, teeth knocked out, jaws broken and poorly healed, bruises which have somehow become permanent.

Is there absolutely no hope for many 'communities' ? Yes, I think so. If a 'community' has no prospect of an economic base, no prospect of local employment except the usual make-work and sit-around, 'working at home', positions (don't call them jobs), and if there is no observable reason for kids to get any sort of education if they stay, what's the point ? But round and round we'll go. 'Communities' thus have their own ghastly, destructive logic.

What to do ? Assist people to leave to find work, and to get the hell as far away as possible. Aboriginal people in 'such 'communities' really have crapped in their own nest, over and over again, and expected white outsiders to come in and clean it all up. Which they do, out of the goodness of their hearts, at least until they get totally sick of it, leave, and never dream of coming back.

Joe

Rehctub, Aboriginal people aren't the only groups who have these problems.
Should we extend your 'no welfare' rules to everyone who are unemployed no-hopers?
If not, why not?

Can you imagine the crime rates we would have to endure from all these people with no way of supporting themselves? How would we fund all the jails?
How would others fund their new high-security lifestyles? Look at Africa.

You suggest that retirees should continue to get welfare money. What if they are the elderly who have never worked? Where do you want to draw the line?
What will we do with the disabled and the sick.......involuntary euthanasia?

You haven't really thought this through have you?

Joe (Loudmouth), "Aboriginal people in 'such 'communities' really have crapped in their own nest, over and over again, and expected white outsiders to come in and clean it all up. Which they do, out of the goodness of their hearts, at least until they get totally sick of it, leave, and never dream of coming back"

Not so long ago and during the previous Labor governments (to put a rough time on it), a number of grey nomads responded to the usual complaints of lack of resources and offered their voluntary services to help out, immediately and for as long as necessary. It made a lot of sense. Many nomads are fit, able and skilled. They could easily organise themselves, were self-sufficient and highly mobile. They would do whatever was required of them. Even in days the idea found plenty of volunteers with all sorts of practical skills, managers too.

The result? Well, who could ever have imagined how quickly the previously complaining spokespeople, activists and NGOs could mobilise and coordinate a stern, "NO way!" in reply. No thanks for offering. Just "NO" and up went the barriers to shore up the status quo.

In a dysfunctional system many of those who are part of it see a (personal) vested interest in maintaining it. Figure that one out.

Suze, at no point did I say no welfare, I said NO CASH.

All welfare should be quarantined in my opinion and distributed only via a restricted debit card that will not allow the purchase of restricted good, or cash out.

Sure, there are the VERY SMALL minority who will buy goods and trade them in a half value for grog, drugs, even cash, but no amount of intervention can legislate against stupidity. Besides, along with the card should come strict laws with mandatory criminal offences (jail time with zero tolerance) for both parties should this occur.

We simply must stop this waste, either that, or we decide what cuts are going to be made to fill the ongoing void this, and other welfare waste for that matter creates.

As a long term tax payer, surely i'm not asking too much to want my taxes to be used efficiently and not continually pissed up against the wall like they are in this ongoing waste fest.

OTB, you are spot on because if a young Aussie can't find work in their regional town, Miles/Chincilla being two such towns, they are forced to move to better their chances of finding work, or be cut off welfare.

Unfortunately racism does go both ways.

This has been an ongoing problem for decades and I fear, no thanks to K Rudds apology, that we now have our hands tied behind our backs and this is I suspect the main reason why Howward would not apologise, especially for something he did not do, which is precisely the way I feel.

The apology has simply put us on the back foot, but let's face it, Rudd made a right mess of everything else he touched, so why not this as well.

I don't blame police for not getting involved in camp punch-ups. Let's not forget, the traditional aboriginal ways (you know, the ones we are told we should be protecting) were always violent. That's not a criticism from me; it's fact. It's they way were, and it is they will stay as long as we help them try to replicate the old ways at great expense to us, and to them.

you are right Loudmouth and you obviously have more first hand experience and knowledge than most. For town folk however it creates huge issues when people come from the communities creating havoc. I think the bush people should be put in the electorates where the pollies make the decisions. That might awaken them from their willful ignorance.

Hi ttbn,

Aboriginal society is/was by no means unique: pretty much ALL traditional societies, in ancient Spain, Scotland, China, Maori, Mongol, Aztec, you name it, are/were brutal and very violent. It was the rule in most of those places for a man to die in battle, and shameful if he didn't. Women were traded and brutalised. Wars between groups were wars of total extermination. TOTAL extermination.

The Aboriginal elites and their white minders may be oblivious to how people actually live out there in the 'communities' and may just prattle about 'culture'. Yes, indeed: violence was an integral part of ALL traditional 'cultures'. If we should give credit where it is due, which is fair enough, then we must also, with open eyes, call out atrocities where we see them. Nobody's perfect, no society is perfect, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.

Cheers,

Joe

REHCTUB...

Hi Butch;

I've entered similar discussions on how police (including myself) have dealt with Blacks in the past. Their problems are both complex and confusing, in terms that we (white or European culture) expect them to submit to our modern laws and culture, many of which they don't understand. Whereas theirs is an ancient culture that has managed to deal with their problems, quite successfully for thousands of years, albeit we mightn't agree with their remedies?

I'll again reiterate, as a relieving sergeant in the bush, the one thing I learned and learned thoroughly, we (police, authority of any kind) MUST show them RESPECT above everything else! By doing so, is always a giant step forward.

Joe,

Yes. My own ancestors, Scots and Teutons were violent, as were most people. I can still put on a pretty good hissy fit. And, most Australians with aboriginal ancestors have calmed down and civilised too because they been influenced by time and culture as we all have. My beef is with the white galahs who want prevent the bush aborigines from getting that same influence that would would enormously better their lives.

O sung wu,

Can't agree. I am not going to respect people who's main way of dying is booze and bashing. I have empathy, and they need help to change, but they will never change while warped do-gooders are keeping in the Stone Age.

Hi there TTBN...

I hear what you say, and I've witnessed what you say. Their problems are enormous, and I can't see anyway out of them to be honest. All I can go on is what I've discovered and encountered when I worked among them.

o sung wu,
Hi old mate.
Having policed Aurukun I have a good grasp of the social incapacity of the place.
Actually I like the place and the people despite their failings.
The problem with Aurukun id the disparate tribal groups, a legacy of the church failings a long time ago.
We can't go back and the road ahead looks uninviting.
I can remember many a Monday morning, and I bet if you looked at the day these videoed fights were occurring you would find it was a Monday,
when we, as police, were required to do two things by the government.
1 Observe only with toilet paper stuffed in our holsters instead of weapons and
2 Make sure there were at least two Flying Doctor planes on the airstrip to attend to and fly out casualties'
One set of clans would line up outside the Council Offices in Kang Street and the opposing clans facing them and the weekly battle would take place.
I have seen star pickets wrapped in barb wire speared through the belly of a pregnant 13 year old.
Such is the vicious nature of these people and their feuds.
We were never allowed to intervene and nobody was ever charged.
We sent the injured off to Cairns and the town went about its business.
It reminded me of a short story (true) about a druid village in Wales called "The Lottery"
Who ever won the lottery got stoned to death by the village and that allegedly removed the aggression from the village for a whole year.
I have neighbors from Aurukun and two of her brothers are doing 'life' for murder.
Its in their blood.
I have wrote volumes on the problem and I still don't have a solution.
Incidentally I am going back to Aurukun in a weeks time so I'll keep you posted mate.
Cheers

Hi there CHRISGAFF1000...

Thanks a lot for your most interesting insights and commentary into this entirely puzzling and complex problem(s) that have intermittently erupted in the troubled Aurukun communities.

I've mentioned previously herein, that I was a relieving sergeant in the bush over a period of a couple of years, and boy did I learn heaps. Particularly the need to accord proper respect for our indigenous blacks. And I reckon I just managed to scratch the surface of identifying and establishing the main (root) causes of domestic violence; excessive alcohol use; and the availability to easily access many of the hard drugs within their dysfunctional communities.

I raised another topic on The Forum, concerning 'Respect for the traditions of our Courts'. Discussing this rash of arrogance and rudeness displayed by some from the Islamic community by not standing, whenever the Magistrate enters the Court. Deferring to the teachings of Allah, rather than submitting to our secular rituals?

I mentioned the 'Anunga Rules' the additional protocol added to the 'Judges Rules' specifically for the benefits and protection of our indigenous people who are about to be charged for a criminal offence.

Actually Chris, I was hoping you would expand upon that precise topic...; 'as my memory is exhausted your worship and I don't have my notes from which to refresh it' (sic)?

Anyway ol' mate please take a quick squizz at it, if you have both the time and the inclination please Chris?

Hmmm, what will be the situation in a thousand years when there are
no obvious aboriginal people still around ?
Will government forms still carry the
"Are you of Aboriginal or Torres Strait origin ?"

Will the proposed clause in the constitution be still there ?
Looked at in that light the welfare programs seem ludicrous.

Hi Bazz,

While welfare-oriented Aboriginal people have a genius for turning promising programs, like CDEP, into yet more no-work welfare programs, I have very strong concerns that your 1000-year scenario won't occur.

Concerns ? Yes, I suspect that there is a rapidly growing existential rift between work- and welfare-oriented Aboriginal people, manifested to a large extent spatially - a rift between remote, rural and outer-suburban populations (with exceptions) and working populations, focussing on their different interpretations on 'opportunity' - one population seeing 'opportunities' for more welfare security, the other seeing opportunities as the pathways to better education and work, usually in the larger towns and cities.

I suspect that the welfare-oriented population is driving itself further and further down the road to self-destruction (that 'self-determination' and even 'community' are frauds) while the growing working population avoids welfare agencies and just gets on with business, socialising and inter-marrying with work colleagues and raising the fourth or fifth generation now in urban environments.

Maybe I'm being alarmist, but I fear that the scourges of grog, FAS, drugs (particularly ice), and a coming Zika epidemic will do great damage to the welfare-oriented population, particularly in northern remote settlements. They may increase the mortality rates (as we'll see in the Census), and will leave behind very damaged individuals who will be completely incapable of ever making their own way in the world. If this is so, then the welfare-oriented population not only will never lift its game but instead, is, one way or another, heading for extinction.

I hope fervently that I'm wrong.

Joe