Bright purple/pink/blue hair, tats on almost every square inch of exposed skin, rats tails up to a foot long and crap hanging everywhere out of their faces, even bull rings between their nostrils, or holes in their ears you could park a truck in.

These are typical of young so called job seekers and quite frankly, other than say an out of sight factory/yeard worker, what are the prospects of these people actually finding a well paid job.

More importantly, at what point do the authorities start to wind back their dole payments, due to self inflicted, anti job prospect actions.

At what point do we start discriminating against this type of behaviour that is obviously contributing to youth unemployment.

How does hair colour affect someones work? Ditto for tattoos and piercings.
Maybe we should start discriminating against old fogies who have been around too long and cant cope with any changes in society.

Now come on rehctub, don't be like that.
You might upset the millennials feelings and that's just not ok in today's PC world.
It doesn't matter if it's true its all about their feelings, didn't you know?

Bigoted stereotyping again Butch. What you are saying is if you don't look like a member of the Young Liberals your not worthy of having a job. Lets add to the list; Blacks, homosexuals, Muslims, Asians, feminists, the disabled etc etc.
So, the tens of thousands of young people who do look like they could be members of the Young Liberals, but don't have a job, they are just unlucky.

There is a bloke working in my local butcher shop who has a beard. Should be sacked! Does not fit the stereotyping. Then again he would not be a problem in Butch's shop, he wouldn't be employed in the first place.
Have I mentioned the bloke with one good arm working a cash register at my local Woolies? Get rid of him ASAP!

yes well, as suspected, ive opened a can of worms.

Firstly, the big difference is, I am an employer and I do listen to the reactions from my customers and many feel the same way I do.

As for the bearded butcher, nothing at all wrong with that, but they should be wearing a beard net to comply with safe food regulations, similar to a hairnet.

As for my personal choice, id think twice about it un less it was neat and tidy and my customers don't object, because after all, they would be the ones paying his wages.

As for blacks, foreigners etc as suggested, no, I don't have any issues with them, provided they're not covered in tatts or have crap hanging out of their faces. I am also very reluctant to hire smokers as well, mainly due to passive smoke smells, as my customers don't deserve to be subjected to that. My business, my choice.

As for the tens of thousands of normal youth out of work, ask them what 9 x 9 is, as this may well provide the answer as many today are as dumb as dog ..it having gone through ten to twelve years of school for little gain.

So we can accept the problem exists, or ignore it, its our choice.

However, as most on this site appear to be retirees, anything that cuts in to your potential benefits should be of concern.

Whether we like it or not employers do look at the
clothes you wear, your hair style, personal hygiene, whether you
have tattoos, pierced body parts or anything else about
you that draws attention.

There are certain standards of dress in our society that are
considered rebellious, counter cultured, distracting,
thuggish, or they bring to mind lower social status.

Therefore how you dress can be harmful especially when
looking for a job.

Hi there BUTCH...

In principle I do agree with much of what you say, some of these young people have no intention of seeking work and will no doubt sabotage any and all efforts the authorities make, in order to find and get them suitable work. In fact, the more 'visually' unemployable they endeavour to make themselves, the better it is, according to their own meandering logic? Believe me Butch, I've had a lot to do with this particular demographic over the years, and I still haven't got much of a remedy, of how society should deal with with them! Though police were not known as being particularly sympathetic nor forgiving, either of their behaviour or their provocative method of bodily adornment!

However, there are many other young people who are similarly just as heavily inked and pierced, and who do have full time employment, holding down their respective jobs with considerable pride. When asked why they choose to 'ink-up' and 'hole-up' to the excess, they simply reply it's all to do with contempory fashion. And as the man said, fashion is all in the eye of the beholder, and who among us can legitimately argue with that?

"There are certain standards of dress in our society that are
considered rebellious, counter cultured, distracting,
thuggish, or they bring to mind lower social status."

I agree Foxy but in this day and age the above statement doesnt include tattoos, piercings and dyed hair.

Not saying I would do it but each to their own and as long as they do a good job then its their life, body, skin to do what they want with.

It is all, "Look at Moi, look at Moi!".

Of course questions arise and rightly so about the maturity and judgement of an attention-seeker who has paid large sums of money to have his/her skin look like the graffiti-abused wall of a Council dunny.

Body modification and 'inking' are reliable signs of stupidity, narcissism, ego problems, oppositional defiance disorder and many other problems you wouldn't want to import to a happy, productive workplace.

Likewise for example I wouldn't recruit or retain flirtatious, superficial people. Not intended as an 'equal' comparison, but worthwhile stating the obvious fact that the workers have a vested interest in a harmonious workplace too. Who needs someone with 'issues' to cause problems?

Employment is a competitive market. The costs of poor selection can be horrendous and long-lasting even after the problem has departed.

Things have changed: even on a construction site the workers are generally into healthy lunches; they don't appreciate some idiot around them who takes risks with his own and their safety; the blue language has been toned down with the 'chicken-lipped' few being told not to show up for the next day or next job; and generally speaking anyone who is not mature and willing to do his job on time every time and get along can find a job elsewhere.

It is all about managing risk in a very tight market. Contrary to what the left leaning probably publicly-employed types believe, the business margins are most often slim. It only take one self-centered idiot to upset a job or a customer and spoil the exceptional work of many others. Average doesn't cut the mustard with clients and the business is judged on its last job/service.

Abusing one's body and attention-seeking are NOT reliable indicators of professionalism and having one's life in order.

In the current employment climate, thanks to our lefty & green mates, it can be a very expensive business getting rid of a bad employee. In a retail business such as rehctub's, a bad choice can alienate a lot of your patrons very quickly.

Any employer who does not vet his prospective employees carefully & well will soon be out of business.

In the Whitsunday island resorts with a high turnover of working holiday types, there were plenty of good people to go round. However there were plenty of the type who believed the boss owed them a living, & not that they owed the boss.

In the hospitality industry, where profits are often slim carrying bludgers is not easy. One thing I found was that the staff were much quicker to spot the wrong people. Rather than the union attitude in many industries of protecting the bad one, Our staff were quick to make life unpleasant for the slacker who threw an extra load onto them. Undesirables were usually gone before any management action was required.

Wouldn't it be lovely if this applied in the education industry.

When it comes to standards many of the old conservatives on here are content to stick to the 1950's business model of conformity, and expect young people to do the same. The 1960's gave rise to a counter culture of disobedient youth, who rebelled, many young people rightly questioned the values and standards of that older generation, they were about to replace. some youth were eager to determine their own social values, which were not those of their parents. Young people are doing much the same today, exactly what many of today's respectable bankers and lawyers etc did back then. I think there is no choice other than to live with it, I have no problem, but others do.

As Rehctub stated: My business, my choice!

But as for the dole, it's different because that's public rather than anyone's private business: better keep those self-inflicted there rather than encourage them to interfere with jobs, let them remain forever in that garbage-tip, forever poor.

Rehctub "More importantly, at what point do the authorities start to wind back their dole payments, due to self inflicted, anti job prospect actions."

Really?
How would they live then? With no money, they would no doubt have to resort to violence and crime to get by. Sounds great for the rest of us...

If a prospective employer does not like tattoos or piercings , they can insist that the new employee wears clothing to cover Tatts while at work, and to remove the pierced jewellery while at work.
It already happens now, so get with the times Rehctub and all you other 1950's tragics.

I respect your right to choose whichever employee you feel is the best for your business.
But I do think that how you react to people different to themselves has a good deal to do with the era they were brought up in.

What might seem outrageous to you might seem completely normal to them.

As for the people who make themselves unemployable, and anyone else not contributing towards paying their way the system should be changed so that people must earn the right to their welfare in advance, but you have to find good meaningful work for them, not make them feel like lesser people.

I might well be a 50's tragic, but at least with the guidance of my parents in my youth, I have become self sufficient and never have, and hopefully never will be, a burden on society, which is more than I can say for many of these young people wandering hopelessly from day to day, seemingly without a care I n the world.

You see many are cunning, in that they adjust their lifestyles to a point whereby the survive on the dole, with one such example being safety in numbers. ten or more living in one house.

A family consisting on mum and dad with eight kids does not receive $10,000 per month tax free, but ten on the dole receive exactly that, even more if some have kids, and more again if they scam the system and claim single parent allowance, another common scenario that's growing in popularity.

You see as long as we continue to make life comfortable for these people they will continue to adapt because after all, many have come from poor parenting and gone from zero to $250 a week for doing nothing.

One such approach (as I've said many times) is to stop paying but the pc brigade wont wear it.

So while making ones self undesirable to employers may seem harmless in ones youth, where are they going to be in their thirties or forties?

If you think we baby boomers are a headache for government planners, just wait another thirty/forty years and see what's going to happen.

In my view anyone trying to find stable work, especially our youth with huge unemployment stats, should be doing everything in their power to maximise their chances, and like it or not, having bright pink/blue/purple coloured hair or crap hanging everywhere out of their faces is not helping. It may not hinder in some sectors, but it's certainly not helping.

Furthermore, in the likes of food retailing and hospitality, long sleaves are forbidden for health reasons.

As for tats, how many house deposits do you see in a day walking around?

Suseonline, "If a prospective employer does not like tattoos or piercings , they can insist that the new employee wears clothing to cover Tatts while at work, and to remove the pierced jewellery while at work"

Sure and best of luck with that. What if s/he decides otherwise as easily-led attention-seekers with 'issues' are likely to do? Why bother to take the risk in the first place where there are well-qualified, presentable recruits available?

There is a fellow who goes to our local newsagent who has the tatts and dreadlocks. He looks so shiny your eyes slip off him. Never stand down wind! I asked him one day what he did. He answered that he was a 'chef' in one of those evening food'n'booze places frequented by Hipsters. I asked which one so I could tell friends not to go there.

Dear Rehctub,

<<So while making ones self undesirable to employers may seem harmless in ones youth, where are they going to be in their thirties or forties?>>

If the dole was not conditional on playing the game of "trying to find a job" (but only on the fact that you have no income/assets), then they would have no incentive to make themselves undesirable to employers.

Many hundreds of thousands of workers do jobs they don't want to do and at a cost to their private time, recreational interests and drinking time, which doubtless wouldn't be their preferred choice either. They report for work though and have self respect.

They also pay for their housing and take care of themselves and families.

There will always be a percentage who wouldn't work in an iron lung and prefer to put their efforts instead into avoiding work and some criminal activity on the side, or maybe crime is their undeclared occupation (eg bikies).

The problem is that cynical SOBs like L'il Willie Shorten and the crew who run Labor and Greens want to win power by any means and the votes of dole bludgers help them to win seats in the federal Parliament.

Get rid of compulsory voting for a start.

In my experience, job seekers who dress unconventionally or have tattoos / piercings tend not to get jobs as easily as those who conform. So in that respect, they are already being 'discriminated' against. But more broadly, Australians have already made an art form of discriminating against our young job seekers, regardless of how they look.
We demand tertiary qualifications for jobs that didn't need them in the past. Then we saddle kids with HECS bills that earlier generations never copped.
We move low skilled jobs offshore to access cheap labour then whinge about kids on the dole.
We've gutted TAFE and replaced it with a hopeless hodge-podge of private training providers, half of which make their money by operating as back doors to immigration. Likewise, the CES - which used to help people find work - was replaced by a gaggle of charities whose performance is just rubbish.
In the scheme of things, discriminating against tattooed hipsters is a sideshow.
.

Beach, was that a typo "Get rid of compulsory voting for a start." should it not read "Get rid of voting for a start." Given your penchant for a police state, where regimentation and conformity are the order of the day.
There are thousands of people in Australia with tattoos and piercings who hold down regular well paying jobs with no problem. Unfortunately old conservatives can't understand young people, and treat them with suspicion, the message here from the crusty old brigade to the young comes across loud and clear; Conform to our standards, or we'll do our best to make your lives miserable.

Psychologists would tell you that it is the 'inked' dills who are conforming - to get attention and acceptance. That is very much like a streaker at the cricket, a sad, desperate SOB who would do that to get attention, having no other claims to separate him from the dross he is part of.

The inked are NOT individuals and it is someone else's doodling that defaces them anyhow.

As for Hipsters, they slavishly follow fashion and that includes being inked with the same designs, for instance triangles. At least many Hipsters find the shower occasionally, whereas most of the tattooed seem to have hygiene problems and an aversion to soap and water.

Now, what is going on with the number of tattoos and lack of teeth? The more the tatts the fewer the teeth.

Paul1405,
It is the Left, the International Socialists (or Trotskyists in the case of the NSW 'Watermelon Greens) who are the totalitarians, even down to refusing freedom of speech, for example through that noxious section 18c.

paul, most of your 'old conservatives' have a job, a house (or several) and are simply making an observation and more importantly identifying some of the reasons many of our youth today don't have a job.

Its got little to do with whether or not you think societies 'old conservatives' should 'move on' but everything to do with trying to steer young ones in a direction that removes them from the pier pressure that more often than not contributes to the fact that they make themselves less desirable to prospective employers.

Quite frankly, apart from the wasted tax payers dollars, mine included, I don't give a damn because my responsibility lies with my own two now adult children, both of which are well on their way to owning their own businesses and securing their own financial independence.

I am merely making an observation.

Its reassuring to know Young Mr Beach, is bucking the trend and is still wearing Old Mr Beach's spats and straw hat from 1927. Your derogatory comments about young people are unfounded, because they choose to be different from you, and me for that matter, you heap scorn and derision upon them.
Obviously in your ideal society taking such liberties would be outlawed, along with just about every other freedom people enjoy, and transgressors could expect to feel the full weight of the law, your law of course.
This is not about tattoos and body piercings, its about conformity and control of the individual.
I often catch public transport, and sometimes there are old men and women on board who are dirty, and stink to such a degree, you can't sit within spitting distance of them, without covering your nose. Should they be castigated for their social transgression, being non conformists and all.

Look, not everyone out there that has tattoos paid for them with dole payments, it's not right to put everyone into that category, I reject that, but I do accept the stereotype you're directing your criticisms at.

Many of them are unintelligent unproductive bums.

I understand you don't like seeing your taxes thrown down the toilet and the choices and lifestyles these people make for themselves with that money, (and you've got a right to voice that opinion) but it's not black and white, there's always another side to the story.

Whilst your kids have enjoyed the benefit of having a father who taught them responsibility, and will be successful not all kids today have that.

Today's women have a financial incentive to have babies because economists want to increase the birth rate.
So you have ghetto breeding more ghetto without fathers, and the 'smart ones' that helped to create this situation.

You're getting upset at these people when its not all their fault in the way you're trying to say it is.

Instead of being angry at these people you should have some sympathy for them, not so much for the choices they foolishly make for themselves; though you should recognise that many didn't have fathers like you and don't know any better.

But because while your kids will grow up to own businesses, the most these people will ever be if they are lucky are employees for people like you and your kids.

I reject on some level your will to discriminate against these people simply because they haven't conformed to your standards when it isn't entirely their fault (the system created them), though I accept wholeheartedly your frustration at seeing your tax dollars thrown away.

rehctub,

I probably wouldn't employ someone with rats tails and a bull ring through their nose in a main stream business, where duties involve dealing with mainstream customers on the floor - simply because it would be a turn off.

I don't see too many young people of that ilk in my community though.

Tell me though, would you employ someone who looks more mainstream but whose written communication ability is of this quality?

"at what poinmt should we start discriminating, especuially against our young job seekers."

"yes well, as suspected, ive opened a can of worms"

For someone who routinely bangs on about your integrity - all the signs from you on this forum are that you can't even be bothered editing your own writing. We all make typos but yours are always a litany of rushed off sloppy mistakes - no attention to detail at all as far as presentation of your viewpoint is concerned.

Armchair Critic,

No-one is arguing that every person with a tattoo somewhere no matter how small and unobtrusive is automatically a poor employee.

You have a point there where fatherless families are concerned. Although the fathers even if known is usually feral himself. Likely he and some of his sexual conquests (with rum'n'coke and recreational drugs to help) are sharing progeny to get the best they can out of Centrelink.

Although it is a toss-up which is worse for the luckless children, the @rse who just HAS to pass on his genes, or the night visitors (and overstayers, but watch out for Centrelink!) mum finds at the RSL while the kids are babysitting themselves at home.

As far as trying to get any of these dole bludgers to work and to see the benefit to themselves and the spin-off positive modelling to children, the chances of that happening is nil unless they are forced to do so. What employer wants the management problems of these vain, stupid and lazy buggers or the lost customers?

As for trying to get the 'Struggle Streets' dads to take any real responsibility for the eggs they wantonly fertilised, best of luck there too. They would boast of their children and hope to one day leech from them too, but be around and take care of them? Not on your Nelly!

What if the foolish young could consider temporary stains on their skin instead? While that is not without risk, that is minor compared with the other alternative. Still, if mum and significant others in the child's life have the tatts and make poor decisions generally, what hope for the child? How to break the cycle where the child is in their 'care'(sic) is the problem.

'fathers' should be 'father'

Hi Poirot,

The perception in society of the butchering trade in my younger days; It was perceived as a "semi-trade" not for the sharpest tools in the shed. It was in essence for the kid (boys, they were all boys in those days) who was a bit brighter than the Joe who was only good for digging holes in the road. A "trade" working in a chop shop, selling snags and rissoles to old ladies and lamb chops to housewives, suited some whose reading, writing and comprehension skills would be tested in a less manual pursuit. Such a perception was probably just another case of stereotyping.

Hey onthebeach,
The only point I was trying to make was that if you're gonna give 'em a serve offer equal criticism to the system that made them, that's all.

Armchair Critic,

Yes and you are right.

All the best.

poirot, while I'm not one to make excuses, I do work a 60 plus hour week and oversee another business, so yes, most of my posts are rushed due balancing the need to work and my wanting to contribute to the forum. So please accept my apologies.

Having said that, I hold the belief that spelling is over rated and there have been examples to prove this.

As for Pauls comments, i'm the first to admit that my academic skills are not A1, but I am very astute in the areas that really matter, that being math and customer relations and I have a track record to prove it.

While butchery is one of those trades that the 'non geniuses' such as myself can thrive at, most school grads today don't even know their basic times tables and percentages is something that they have totally skipped in their ten/twelve years of schooling. What are they teaching kids today?

On the subject of academic skills, I have a young guy with me now, 21, who is a first year apprentice. He is very poorly educated.

The criteria I have adopted for selecting a worker is the old 'employ an attitude and teach it skills' and this kid is a poster boy for that famous statement although he does test my patience.

Had he arrived with his skill level, and had bright hair colour with crap hanging our of his face he would never have got a start, and I don't think i'm the only employer who thinks like this.

Success starts with attitude and the willingness to present ones self in a positive manner to a prospective employer and if the job one is seeking does not discriminate against these things, then that's fine, but don't come knocking on the likes of retail/hospitality doors and expect a positive response because in these fields, the customers become the judge. And let's face it, these two sectors play a large role in the first job out of school for job seekers.

Butch, I was not bagging the butchering trade, simply stating the way things were back then. For the right bloke such as yourself it presented an opportunity for success, that may not have come your way had you gone in another direction.
Today living in inner Sydney I see a lot of odd characters, young and old, some seem to work, some don't. The young people I come across, the majority are rather normal, the freaky people are certainly in the minority, even in Newtown. One young bloke I talk to, he's about 25 and a transvestite, sometimes I come across him, dressed straight, other times he's in drag. It took a while but he eventually scored a job as a van driver, got it himself, and he seems very happy with it. When we first meet he came across as being angry with me, talked abrupt, he was a bit of a clown, but I think it was more of a defense mechanism, him being what he is. and me being what I am, totally different. Given time he's accepted me, as much as I have accepted him. and we get on fine. Sometimes it only requires a little bit of understanding on both sides. Tats and piercings don't make for a good person, but they don't make for a bad one either.
Its not new that some kids fail through the cracks in the education system.

rehctub,

Since you are critiquing qualities and appearances in other people, it's relevant to point out that just because you think spelling is overrated, it doesn't necessarily follow you won't be judged for the appearance of your comments.

I'm not necessarily criticising your spelling prowess or the fact that you make mistakes. I am one for making inadvertent typos myself.

MY point is that you seem to be the type who would say: "A job worth doing is a job worth doing well." You've shown us that you can type a comment with care - and yet you repeatedly slap dash posts with the most glaring negligence.

All it takes is an extra few minutes to look at what is down on the page and correct it.

I'm sure you instil that kind of ethic in the people you train in your line of work....it's called attention to detail.

My other point here is that I've never understood why Graham doesn't edit thread titles with glaring mistakes in them in the general section. If you were coming to OLO for the first time and saw the spelling at the top of this thread - you'd probably think it was pretty amateur operation.

rehctub,

When you make as many mistakes as I do, then you should worry, LOL.

BTT

Job seekers etc.,

I am reminded of the saying, 'When the student is ready, the teacher appears'.

Some will never be ready. Maybe that is because they are stupidly over-estimating their own worth and knock back 'lesser' opportunities. Maybe they stupidly imagine that society owes them a living. Whatever their motivation and rationalisation, they are still stupid.

"They don't know moi. They judge moi and don't want to elevate me straight to manager (won't accept anything less!) because of moi artwork".

Yeah, right!

I don't know if they believe that the world owes them a living onthebeach, but they know our fool current welfare society will give them one, no matter how useless they are. Our western civilisation is bound the way of the dodo, as we are most unlikely to toughen up enough to make our bludgers earn a living. While we don't, their numbers grow exponentially.

Reduce the welfare to a tent, & 3 cans of cold beans a day, & watch these bludgers scrabble to find work. The hair, tats & body piercings
would quickly become last years way of avoiding a job.

You know I can hear the bleeding hearts now, "think of the children"

As for spelling, I don't give a damn. I am interested in what is being said, & provided I can get the meaning, who cares.

I gather most of us journalise anyway, usually using only the first 2 & last 2 letters of a word to decipher it. This is great for me. Being slightly dyslexic, I can transpose the e & a in a word like teacher, & not be able to see my error in a dozen proof readings. Thus I don't notice, or care about, the errors of others.

Then with my typing ability, when spell checker is working I can have a very colourful page, just with my mishit keys. Just as long as I can continue to tell which way is up, an increasingly rare skill, I'm happy.

Hasbeen,

"As for spelling, I don't give a damn. I am interested in what is being said, & provided I can get the meaning, who cares.

I gather most of us journalise anyway, usually using only the first 2 & last 2 letters of a word to decipher it. This is great for me. Being slightly dyslexic, I can transpose the e & a in a word like teacher, & not be able to see my error in a dozen proof readings. Thus I don't notice, or care about, the errors of others.

Then with my typing ability, when spell checker is working I can have a very colourful page, just with my mishit keys. Just as long as I can continue to tell which way is up, an increasingly rare skill, I'm happy."

And in your latest post you display care and attention to the activity you are undertaking - it's well written and not slap dash. Your posts are always of quality. It shows that you care about the people reading it.

Which was my point to rehctub.

Poirot, the most important point has been made there was the fact that dole bludgers don't have to work because they are too well provided for, yet, you missed it.

You are so focussed on minor issues that it's almost as if you look for reasons to divert a thread of this much importance.

As for my academic skills, if I had chosen to be a doctor/lawyer/accountant or similar, there is little doubt I would have struggled, however, given when I attended school they actually TOUGHT YOU SOMETHING and, THEY MADE decisions on your behalf which saw me take a path that minimized my chances of failure, eg, a career path that suited my academic skills. They called them guidance councillors but i'm assuming the PC brigade has decided this is discriminating towards people of my, or lesser abilities.

Has been, simply removing the cash from welfare (seniors pensions exempt) would go a long long way towards addressing the issue you raise, however, those being provided for also get to vote so no government dare go there for fear of loosing votes.

Tony Abbott was the only PM for years who had the balls to do just that, but he got crucified for it.

The slide continues.

rehctub,

"Poirot, the most important point has been made there was the fact that dole bludgers don't have to work because they are too well provided for, yet, you missed it.

You are so focussed on minor issues that it's almost as if you look for reasons to divert a thread of this much importance."

Yes, sorry I diverted it...it was your focus on "appearances" that made me think.

You don't seem to give much of a stuff as to how your posts appear, so I commented on that.

That's all I have to say - so the floor is now yours.

Pretty soon there won't be any young job seekers. Under the ChAFTA the Chinese will just displace the local young job seekers with its own workers brought in from China.

The local young job seekers will become the new unemployables of the Sino-Australian landscape. Maybe these young permanently unemployable Australian job seekers can migrate to China and get jobs as wage slaves in a ping pong factory in Shanghai or stamping Happy Xmas onto expired Year of the Dog festivity cards.

Don't you just love the fact that Australia's politicians and business leaders have sold you out to China for a bagful of free fake $40K Rolexes.

A good dictator might be better than a succession of bad governments.

Dear Armchair Critic,

If the Chinese see that comment of yours they'll take it as an open invitation to invade.

Mr Opinion, the Chinese don't need an invitation because I suspect with our PC culture and our unwillingness to step on dicks, we are the laughing stock of the world. They would certainly change that in a heart beat.

In our current political arena the priority is first winning votes, followed closely by holding votes. The big issues come a distant third.

I would suggest Bill Shorten has just made a huge blunder by announcing he will accept the decision of the fair work tribunal on Sunday penalty rates. That's yet to be seen I might add, but he has just confused some of his die hard followers I would suggest with that comment.

The pendulum just swung a bit the other way for some.

The way we are going it is a race between the Chinese, & the Muslims to take over Oz.

It will be ironic if we old fashioned Ozzies, you know the ANZAC type, get to spectate in a civil war between these two, for control of the country.

Who ever wins, there's going to be many bonfires, burning same sex marriage certificates. Jobs will be the least of our worries.

I have been impressed by the skills and positive attitudes of the young Irish tradesmen and women being used by the heavy equipment hire firms locally. Always start before time with their safety and maintenance checks and always cheery, which is immediately returned making the workplace pleasant.

There is a slip of a young women, obviously well-trained, who can and does put her truck where the local 'super drivers' cannot. It is particularly noteworthy that where soil is being excavated, the temporary Irish operators always finish the day by smoothing down the piles to reduce the problem of wind borne dust. Five to ten minutes that keeps the builder on better terms with affected residents. They don't need the site supervisor chasing them to do it.

A couples of minutes drive away and hanging around the shopping centre and tavern there are the slack-arsed, tatts-covered Oz ferals who wouldn't even have washed the night or last week from their hide. They would be whining about Centrelink expecting them to try for training and a job, but all the while signalling through their obviously intended visual cues and their behaviour that they fully intend to bludge forever.

Why would anyone be making excuses for them?

Dear Hasbeen,

As far as Sydney is concerned the Chinese have already taken over. You should pop down for a visit and check it out. Absolutely amazing! I was watching the trains coming and going on the platform the other morning peak hour and I reckon half the carriages were full of Chinese. I know a lot of other Asians e.g. Filipinos who are asking the same question: 'What are all these Chinese doing here?'

Forget what Suseonline and Aidan tell you. Suseonline comes from WA and Aidan must also definitely be from outside of Sydney. They both think the Chinese in Sydney account for only 3 in every 100 persons. 3 in 100 would only add up the numbers living in Hurstville alone.

Actually I've noticed an increase in the working Chinese since the ChAFTA came into effect which makes me think that Chinese companies are bringing in their own workers from mainland China.

I feel sorry for all those men and women who fought in WW2 to protect Australia from invasion. For the ones who are no longer with us all I can say is they would be turning in their graves if they knew how Australia's politicians and business leaders have sold out their descendants to the Chinese all for a bagful of free fake $40K Rolexes.

For those who can't come to grips with what I am saying please come to Sydney and see it for yourself before criticising me for my comments and brushing me off as some paranoid Sinophobe. It's absolutely amazing!

While I totally respect the right of people to colour their hair, ink their skin, and pierce themselves in any bodily projection or orifice they so choose....rehctub has a fair point. I'm not in the least bit bothered by the tattoo brigade - at least not any more (I work with zillions of them), but I can appreciate that appearance offends or bothers some people (most likely including rehctub). These people have every right to find certain appearances acceptable or offensive. But what I am hoping is that most people out there can lift their gaze slightly and look at the bigger picture. I'm not saying job applicants shouldn't take a long, hard, look in the mirror before going to a job interview - in fact far from it. In fact some of them need a serious wake up call. rehctub - your opinions are duly noted and understood. But there are much, much bigger issues at play here, and I fear that far too many people in the business community just don't get it. If we fix these issues below (which I cannot see happening any time soon), then I can guarantee that all the tattoos and piercings won't seem like such a problem.

Our economic and employment climate in Australia has changed drastically over the last decade or so. In particular, our new "brilliant" Free Trade Laws (not!), along with the drastic increases in technology, and sharp increase of cheap foreign labour. With these recent changes, we've drastically reduced the number of FULLTIME jobs available, while simultaneously we have increased the labour pool. What this has resulted in is that there are just way too few jobs available for our current population. Virtually all the job opportunities for the masses working in the 1970's and earlier are now gone. It does not matter which way you look at it, this is an indisputable fact - etched into stone. Unless we reduce our population AND increase job numbers, Australia will simply become one giant prison.

Mr O,

Do you consider one selling pork to a Chinaman from his chop shop, even if he puts his thumb on the scales to overcharge the undesirable, and notwithstanding he serves him last, even if he was first in the queue. Is that in your opinion aiding and abetting the enemy. Could it be tantamount to treason! I suspect that this practice is widespread in butcher shops all over Australia. Naturally not in Butcher's butcher shop, the sign at the front door would make it perfectly clear as to who will, and who will not be served!
And, I haven't even mentioned the greengrocers yet!

Political correctness has some denying diversity while 'celebrating'* and 'embracing'* it.

*PC approved words where the endless-diversity-Oz-is-being-obliged-to-have is concerned

From the population atlas of brisbane for example and remembering that the Population Census defines children of migrants as Australians, not migrants,

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-a-city-of-many-nations-data-shows-20130123-2d7cb.html

Many don't have any issues with migrants. However the majority which includes migrants themselves, strongly object to 'Big Australia' and want a tightening on intakes particularly with sustainability and costs (taxes, loss of quality of life) to the present population in mind.

Secondly, the majority of Australians which includes migrants themselves, strongly object to allowing the 'diversity' tail to swing the immigration policy dog as some governments but particularly Labor are prone to do. That results in the importation of toxic beliefs, traditions and political systems that threaten freedom, safety and quality of life.

Australian governments and the Labor and Greens in particular, have NOT learned anything from the experiences of Rotherham and elsewhere in the UK,

"Rotherham council ignored child abuse by Asian [PC for Pakistani] gangs because of 'misplaced political correctness', report concludes

Misplaced political correctness by Rotherham’s Labour led council combined with a staggering culture of denial allowed more than 1,400 vulnerable girls to be routinely abused by gangs of Asian men, a withering report has concluded.

Children as young as nine were groomed, trafficked and raped by members of the town’s Pakistani community, but a desperation to avoid being labelled as racist meant councillors turned a blind eye to the appalling abuse for 16 years.

A damning report, written by former Victims’ Commissioner, Louise Casey, has laid bare the true extent of the council’s failings and accused those in charge of deliberately trying to cover up scandal and silence whistle-blowers"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html

Beach, as terrible as your favorite migrant bashing hobby horse Rotherham in the United Kingdom was, I fail to see the relevance of it to Australia in 2016. Are you claiming there is a parallel between them and us? Despite the fact there is no Australian evidence of such systemic child abuse among our migrant communities. In fact the only evidence of systemic child abuse in Australia has been uncovered by a Royal Commission into organisations such as the Catholic Church. The cover up of child abuse in Australia has been at the hands of individuals you might consider conservative, police and church officials.
Is your inference that Rotherham should be used as justification for a ban on migration to Australia. You claim without evidence "Australian governments and the Labor and Greens in particular, have NOT learned anything from the experiences of Rotherham and elsewhere in the UK." When it comes to Australian migration conservative governments have been no less supporters than Labor. What in particular did the conservatives learn from Rotherham that Labor and the Greens did not

The LNP federal government must have learned something, they threw these grubs out of the country,

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/brothers-convicted-over-the-death-of-police-officer-glenn-mcenallay-have-been-deported-to-tonga/news-story/c008879477ba399a822c51726a4570e4

and this,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/convicted-criminals-have-visas-cancelled/6254120

Not something the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens would be supporting eh, Paul1405?

Typical Greens, no empathy for the victims of crime and the law-abiding public. The Greens have lots to say about criminals' 'rights' and they don't like any impediments for criminal gangs, such as the previous Qld LNP government's successful Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment Act 2013.

Along with Labor the Greens are hell-bent on destroying that Act (VLAD) that easily survived an expensive High Court challenge by Bikies. How does that figure? Labor's and Greens' protester voting demographic again, no doubt. In this case, outlaw motorcycle gangs.

These fellows,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bikies-flock-north-as-crackdown-reviewed/news-story/fde66b02a17e241a2fbbf09267f53106

Birds of a feather,

<Bikies carry out threats and assaults for CFMEU, Assistant Police Commissioner says

Outlaw motorcycle gang members have carried out threats and assaults for the construction, forestry, mining and energy union (CFMEU), Victoria's Assistant Police Commissioner has told an inquiry.

Stephen Fontana told the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption that police have begun several investigations into allegations of violence, intimidation and debt collection carried out by outlaw bikie gang members for the union.

"That group is heavily involved in debt collection and they just go there and stand over people and bypass normal civil process," Assistant Commissioner Fontana said.

He said police had been unable to make any arrests because alleged victims had withdrawn their statements in fear of their own safety>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-18/bikies-carry-out-assaults-for-cfmeu,-police-say/5754368

Paul1405,

You may be able to assist the forum with advice on CFMEU donations to the Greens and Labor. Then again, you could be 'In de Nile', as the 'Watermelon' Greens Trots so often are.

Beach, as you know I do not open links provided by you, for obvious reasons, they may contain viruses as one has found out to their detriment in the past. As per usual you bounce from one hobby horse of yours to another, from Rotherham in the UK, to VLAD laws in Queensland. Making it hard to pin you down on anything of substance.

As I understand it a review into the VLAD laws was conducted by Justice Alan Wilson, are you inferring Justice Wilson is a friend of bikes? Justice Wilson's review found the laws to be "excessively harsh", particularly in relation to mandatory sentencing and recommended they be replaced by a new "aggravating circumstance" of serious organised crime, which could add extra years to a jail sentence. I believe the Palaszczuk Government has acted correctly in adopting Justice Wilson's recommendations. Naturally this will not satisfy an ultra right desperate such as yourself, who demands draconian laws to control the undesirables, but once gaining power would extend those laws, and introduce new ones, to control all, for the good of society of course.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-04/queensland-vlad-laws-should-be-scrapped-judicial-review-finds/7296778