The 2013 election result led to criticism of preference deals between the so called micro-parties which helped them get candidates over the line despite securing only a small number of primary votes. This system saw candidates from minor parties such as the Australian Sports Party and the Motoring Enthusiast Party gain seats in the Senate.

The Greens pushed for a democratic way to fix the Senate voting system leaving voters to decide their preferences and end the backroom party deals by abolishing Group Voting Tickets.The key difference is that under the Greens plan the voter will decide the allocation of preferences not party backroom deals.

New legislation under the Commonwealth Electoral Amendment Bill would give voters greater control over where their preference votes end up in Senate elections. Will this change bring a true representation of the electorate, or just entrench the two party systems even further.

I think the Australian Muslim Party has a very big chance of getting a senator into the upper house at the next election. I think it will also draw a lot of votes from outside the Muslim communities. So don't be surprised if they get a lot more than a single senator into Parliament.

I think the age of the senate providing the checks and balances for the states of the Commonwealth is anachronistic given that Australia no longer exists as a nation but is now just a country structured around a congeries of ethnic groups which are becoming ever more segregated into spatial and political entities.

I'd like to see the Chinese establishing their own political party as well. I think the Chinese are in a position to become the principal political minority given that there are several million Chinese resident in Australia.

So in summary, these reforms may actually be the beginning of wider ethnic-based politics in Australia. We might eventually see the disappearance of the dominant two-party system and the introduction of continuous coalition governments in which the likes of the Australian Muslim Party joins with an Australian China Party to form a ruling coalition.

Opinion,

You going to learn Arabic as well as "Chinese"?

I think this Bill will help weed out most of those mad little political parties that were surely started with a joke! I will be happy to see this madness stamped out, and give voters more say in exactly who they want to elect.

Mr. Opinion, why not start the Opinion Party, and then you could stand for your fave anti-Chinese/anti-Muslim thoughts? Surely you could muster up more support for yourself than some of the other funny little Parties?

The new legislation makes politics a tad better than before, so I support the change.

However, I do not support the way and the context in which it was bullied through.

What happened essentially is that the government decided to banish certain senators which it hates and they are willing to use any convoluted scheme to achieve that objective. For them, passing this change so urgently at this time, was only a cog in their scheme rather than any genuine care for the autonomy of the voters.

As for the future, there will be somewhat fewer parties on the senate ballot papers, perhaps half, and this I expect, will assist a significant portion of the voters to number above the line, in some order or another (including donkey-order) all the parties except the big 3 dinosaurs.

The new legislation doesn't get rid of the voting above the line so preference deals will still be done.
voting should be all below the line with a minimum of consecutive numbers set.

Anyone who is not intelligent enough to vote with, say, 12 consecutive numbers shouldn't be voting.
That way I wouldn't need to number all the squares and could ignore the Greens entirely.

Dear Is Mise,

How about asking people to fill the ballot paper with consecutive prime numbers, or perhaps with a Fibonacci series? This will at least require a slightly higher level of intelligence...

Perhaps the ballot paper should look like:

X+2Y+5Z=45
3X-2Y+2Z=20
5X+3Y-Z=22

Place X in your first-preference box.
Place Y in your second-preference box.
Place Z in your third-preference box.
Place X squared in your fourth-preference box.
place Y squared in your fifth-preference box.
Place Z squared in your sixth-preference box.
Place X cubed in your seventh-preference box.
and so on... Good luck!

Now lets see how the "how to vote" cards will look:

The coalition will know the answers, but due to its strong ego will ask the voters to fill in double those numbers "double the vote to make it stronger!".

Labor will say: "Since we should be the winners, put '1' in our box and '0' in all other boxes".

The greens wouldn't have a clue in algebra, so they would ask Senator Lambie, which will tell them: "Just do as instructed: put the letter 'X' for the greens, 'Y' for labor and 'Z' for the coalition".

As it stands, almost every Australian voter is intelligent enough to write 12 consecutive numbers - most do so from left to right (columns A-L). As a second thought, perhaps using a roulette instead can save us $200,000,000.

Dear Is Mise,

That's the sort of system we would expect to be proposed by an engineer.

But it doesn't take into account the fact that Australia is not a nation any more. People seem to be slow in realising that Australia is now a multicultural country with increasing segregation along lines of race and ethnicity.

I would propose a multicultural electoral system which allows voters to cast their votes along cultural lines. For example, ballot papers could be printed in different languages.

Suse,

"I think this Bill will help weed out most of those mad little political parties that were surely started with a joke!..."

Of course, the crowning irony is that the Greens started out as a "mad little political" party that required other preferences to reach the quota.

As one commentator said, now that they are established, they're pulling up the ladder.

Has anyone taken notice of the expected increase in donkey votes, of many lazy people who will mark 1-6 in columns A-F above the line without even reading the party names?

To correct this, we should have 'trap' columns on both sides of the ballot paper, featuring parties that clearly and obviously do not exist above the line and celebrities of past centuries below. Voting for these should render votes informal.

Poirot, the Greens have been that way for a decade of more, try opening a new party branch and see how you go, they're nothing but Tories on bikes these days.

Poirot, I think a party that forms for environmental issues would surely be less 'mad' than the Pirate Party Australia, The Sex Party, Pauline Hanson One Nation Party, The Shooters and Fishers Party, and Katter's Australian Party?

Suse,

Yes....you'd think so.

However, if we're upholding the integrity of our system of democracy, then surely "principle" should be central to the theme.

....should it be clouded by individual opinions and definitions on what constitutes a "mad party"?

Mr Opinion>> But it doesn't take into account the fact that Australia is not a nation any more. People seem to be slow in realising that Australia is now a multicultural country with increasing segregation along lines of race and ethnicity.<<

Mr O, a month ago I listened to a talk back station and the subject was Halal food certification. I was taken aback by the number of Muslims calling in claiming that the scheme was a money making venture for a very few Muslims and did not support the wider Muslim community. It was a venture by corporations to take advantage of a wider market and the certification boards acted in their own personal interests.

Why I mention this is as an example of the Muslim community not supporting a supposed Muslim positive policy or the organization running it. On that basis would not be sure if a Muslim party, which will be Muslim centric, gaining the support of the wider Muslim community. The vast majority of Muslims living in western nations support a Westminster system and Sharia is as unpalatable to them as it is to us.

Responding to Suseonline's nonsensical 'drive-by'. It is plain that she never informs herself first.

Taking one example,

"About [S&FP]
The Shooters and Fishers Party (S&F) is a political party, represented in all Australian States.

S&F is the voice of hunters, shooters, fishers, rural and regional Australia and independent thinking Australians everywhere. Advocating for the politically incorrect, a voice of reason, science and conservation.

S&F is about sustainable utilisation of Australia’s resources, Conservative in family values, we honour and value the family unit as the basic building block of our society. We believe in a fair go for all, but not at the expense of others.

S&F respects and honours our democratic traditions and those in our history who fought and died for us so that we may enjoy the freedoms that we now have.

S&F believes in a multicultural society, committed to Australian values above all others."

Policies outline,

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/files/1/804003973/sfp_federal_policies.pdf

As a disclaimer (not that one should be required), I didn't vote for the S&FP last federal election. From their statement I definitely would not dismiss them if they offered a choice in the Senate. They seem more practical, no-nonsense and they do hold by their promises which is laudable.

As usual I am keeping my options open for the next election and will be looking first at the quality and record of the local candidates.

It must be so easy and comfy being like Suseonline. However like many others I prefer to be informed by facts and to make a rational choice.

OTB, there is rarely anything 'rational' about any of your posts, and just because I sometimes choose to write just one sentence, and not rant and rave on for a long boring diatribe like you do, does not make me a 'drive-by' as you say.

I choose not to like what the 'Shooters and Fishers Party' mainly stand for, and that is my opinion on this Online Opinion Forum, so I don't see what you are on about.
I dislike the cruelty of fishing, and no, I don't eat fish.
I dislike guns greatly...as you well know, so I really don't care what their other policies are at all!

The Liberals and Greens are assuming that the people whose votes ended up electing, say, Ricky Muir, would have preferred to see their preferences going to a major party and were not inspired by hatred of the major parties to vote for a minor party in the first place. The Liberals and Greens have actually just made it easier for the people who hate them to vote against them by numbering all of the boxes above the line and putting them last. They no longer have to number more than 100 boxes and take the risk that their vote will be declared invalid because a number was duplicated or left out. It will be interesting to see what happens. We owe Malcolm Turnbull our thanks.

Since 2013 it has become obvious that the requirement to fill in all 100+ ranks on one's preference ballot has led to 97% of voters simply voting above the line and having little to no choice as to how their preferences are distributed.

The greens have had senate reform on their agenda since 2004, and so has labor since at least 2010 which was included in their agreement with the greens.

What is amusing is the tantrum that labor threw over the greens' support for this policy. Even Sam Dastyari on Australian Agenda had to agree that the new rules were more democratic, his only reason for opposing them was that their calculations might give the coalition more senate seats.

Talk about putting one's interest above that of the country.

Dear SM,

The senate voting changes are overall positive and had it been done honestly then I presume that Labor would have supported them as well.

But we all know the context in which they were made, that it is a part of a sinister scheme to force a double dissolution by hook or by crook in order to banish the senators they hate.

It's so transparent - now come May 3rd, the senate will be ordered to convene, but only the coalition senators (perhaps also Xenophon) will go to Canberra to attend - and so they will vote against their own ABCC legislation in order to pave the way for what their leader wants.

Y,

There is no precedent for labor putting the needs of the nation above its own. Labor finds the bunch of unrepresentative senators very useful.

Labor even agreed to do this in its pact with the greens in 2010.

SOL: I think this Bill will help weed out most of those mad little political parties that were surely started with a joke!

Like the Greens, hopefully.

Yutsie: all the parties except the big 3 dinosaurs.

Yep! That's what I'll be doing. Let's hope the Two big Party's have S#!t in their own nest.

I wouldn't count the Greens as a Big Party. With any luck the Druggie Party won't be around next time.

Now that we have a socialist leading the LNP, the changes would see the Senate dominated by Left of centre parties: Liberals, Labor, Greens and possible a few Xylophones. A blow to democracy.

What comes next if Malcolm Turnbull’s Senate clash on May 10 to create a new trigger for a double dissolution election is thwarted by the independents in the Senate by voting for the ABCC bill to keep their jobs.
Where to from there?

Dear Sonofgloin,

Even if the independents vote for the ABCC, some Liberals would be instructed to vote against it.

Y,

Now you are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, and not a smart one. If coalition senators voted against the ABCC laws there would be no DD trigger and a lose lose situation.

If the senate passes the legislation MT gets a victory that sets him up for an election in Sept. If the senate doesn't it gives him a DD election on union corruption, and as a majority of voters even in Labor and the greens support it, it is bad news for Shorten who is implicated in union corruption.

Dear SM,

Why would there be no DD if some Liberal senators voted against the trigger? The end result is the same - a second rejection by the senate, which is what MT seeks.

Also, what if some Liberal senators simply didn't show?

Another way, they could technically resign from their party for a few days, becoming independents, then after their vote against the ABCC they could rejoin and be accepted again with open arms.

The way to deal with union corruption is to allow people to sign whatever contracts they like, not involving unions unless they so wish. However, this is a minor matter as the main game in town is that the government hates to see ordinary people represented in the senate, so it wants to kick them out once and for all, whatever be the pretext. Even if it tactically defeats its own ABCC legislation, it will bring it back at some later date.

Lol!...talking of corruption.

"The NSW Liberal party has been slammed by election funding authorities for "concealing" the identities of illegal major donors before the 2011 election that brought it to power, including via the secretive Free Enterprise Foundation.
In an extraordinary finding, the NSW electoral commission has concluded that, based on evidence given to the Independent Commission Against Corruption in 2014, the foundation was used by senior Liberal party officials to "channel and disguise donations by major political donors some of whom were prohibited donors".
The commission says it has relied on evidence given to the ICAC by senior party officials including about the "involvement" of current cabinet secretary Arthur Sinodinos, who was finance director and treasurer of the NSW Liberals at the time.
In a statement released late on Wednesday, commission chairman and former NSW court of appeal president Keith Mason, QC, says the NSW Liberals have repeatedly failed to hand over details of donors to the foundation, which in turn helped bankroll the party's election victory five years ago.

The donations in question total $693,000."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-liberals-concealed-illegal-donors-before-2011-election-win-20160323-gnpsn6.html#ixzz43iwpUq2

And....

"The double-dissolution spill of all 76 Senate seats will hand Nick Xenophon the balance of power, experts say.

Despite Coalition hopes of annihilating the crossbench following the government's Senate electoral law changes, the same pundits are also predicting Jacqui Lambie and Glenn Lazarus have a good chance of being returned.

ABC election analyst Antony Green predicts the South Australian Nick Xenophon Team rather than the Greens will have the balance of power.

http://www.afr.com/news/xenophon-tipped-to-get-balance-of-power-in-senate-20160322-gnojnw#ixzz43ixMc9m

Y,

You are seriously naive. MT already has a trigger for a DD, he doesn't need the senate to reject the ABCC legislation to call a new election. What MT needs is for Labor and the cross benchers to reject the ABCC.

On union corruption, the coalition has a vast archive of dirt on the unions, their corruption, and their ties to Labor, and labor's craven blocking of legislation to stop it that will be used to beat labor.

P,

Even ICAC has recognised that circumventing donation laws while illegal is not corruption.

What is corruption is the 100 odd union officials charged with extortion, assault, intimidation, theft, etc, plus the NSW labor MPs that robbed taxpayers of 10s of $m, the labor councilors of Botany Matraville, Wollongong etc that robbed their constituencies of $ms.

SM,

"Even ICAC has recognised that circumventing donation laws while illegal is not corruption."

In that case, may I offer my sincere apologies....I should have referred to illegal activities - not corruption.

"The good news was he had a potential $20,000 donation for the party. The bad news was that it came from an "illegal" donor as property developers had been banned from donating to NSW political parties since late 2009."

"This week a series of payments made by the FEF to the NSW division of the Liberal party suddenly thrust the organisation back into the national spotlight.
In an explosive finding, the NSW electoral commission found it had graduated from providing privacy for donors to accommodating illegal contributions by "washing" them through the yawning governance gap in state and federal donations laws.
The ruling not only saw the NSW Liberal Party threatening to take the commission to the Supreme Court but also raised fresh questions about the involvement of one of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's most trusted advisors, cabinet secretary Senator Arthur Sinodinos."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/why-arthur-sinodinos-fails-the-pub-test-20160325-gnr0vo.html#ixzz43xhkfaJK

We're losing count of the number of state and federal Liberals being booted for various shonky activities. It's a hoot really, considering how Conservatives strut around holier than thou.

Why, even you, SM, are now making a distinction between illegal activities and corruption as some sort of lame attempt at defence.

Seems to be a party of spivs....

Poirot: "The NSW Liberal party has been slammed by election funding authorities for "concealing" the identities of illegal major donors before the 2011 election that brought it to power, including via the secretive Free Enterprise Foundation.

Which goes a long way to proving that both Major Party's are just as corrupt as one another. That's why it's time to rid Australia of both of them & Elect an fully Independent Senate.

Poirot: ABC election analyst Antony Green predicts the South Australian Nick Xenophon Team rather than the Greens will have the balance of power.

Let's hope so & the "Green Leaf" gets ousted for good.

SM: Even ICAC has recognised that circumventing donation laws while illegal is not corruption.

Yes, Lawyers are good at framing Laws for the Politicians, aren't they? In most countries it's called Corruption, In Australia it's called Donations.

Poirot: We're losing count of the number of state and federal Liberals being booted for various shonky activities.

I guess if we booted all the suspected LNP & Labour Politicians from Office we have an Independent Government, wouldn't we?

Sorry to disappoint Jayb, but here in NSW we Greens will be working hard to get Lee Rhiannon returned and have an excellent chance to win a second spot as well in any DD election. If you are in NSW you can vote for the Honorable Arthur Sinodinos.

The next Liberal for the high jump has to be Arthur Sinodinos, given the part he played in the illegal developer slush fund run by the Liberals in NSW. Sinodinos is now attacking the NSW Electoral Commission for withholding publicly funded money from the party, until it comes clean on this slush fund. At the last count The NSW Liberal Government were approving over 98% of development applications.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/arthur-sinodinos-included-on-slush-fund-email-trail-20160326-gnrist.html

Shadow Minister, me old mate.

How many Labor Councillors are on Matraville Council? Come to think of it, where is Matraville Council? Not one I am familiar with, Botany yes, Wollongong yes, but Matraville. Please fill me in on Labor corruption in Matraville Council. LOL

Public Health Warning: The consumption of "Magic Mushrooms" can lead to hallucinations of the mind. Could result in the belief in imaginary councils run by the Labor Party filled with corrupt Labor Councillors. Good one.

Ye Gods, Greens 'Watermelon' Lee Rhiannon to have an armchair ride and continue to log-jam the Greens Senate seat ticket in NSW?

Isn't it time that youth and fresh ideas had some time in the sun? Rhiannon hasn't ever had an idea that didn't come from the Fifties extreme left.

Mercy!

Paul1405: If you are in NSW you can vote for the Honorable Arthur Sinodinos.

Which part of my previous post didn't you understand. I say again.

Which goes a long way to proving that both Major Party's are just as corrupt as one another. That's why it's time to rid Australia of both of them & Elect an fully Independent Senate. Now talking of Corrupt or Party of Misinformation. I guess the Greens would take that out hands down. eh Sweet leaf. Let's hope Australia sees them for what they are, The Dope Party, & reject them totally.

Paul1405: The consumption of "Magic Mushrooms" can lead to hallucinations of the mind.

Well I guess the Greens would know more about that then the rest of us, eh. If my memory serves my right, & it does, The Greens started of as a Legalize Drugs Party in the 70's. I guess from their latest stance, nothing has changed in all those years.

Vote for Independents everywhere, especially in the Senate

OTB, Lee Rhiannon would debate you and any other right wing ratbags into the ground on any issue, night or day, including your man Jim Saleam. Lee was the popular choice for number one senate candidate by the grass roots membership in NSW. Given a ringing endorsement, Lee will carry on the good work as a Greens representative for the majority of Australians in the Senate. Sadly for you, in a DD election our number two Michael Osborne, a very experienced Greens representative stands a good chance of also being elected.

Jayb, you favor something which is an Aussie version of the Italian parliament. Some 200 odd, very odd, individuals all claiming to be Prime Minister and calling the shots. That would last about a week then these "independents" would start forming themselves into political "groups", not parties, groups. After two weeks we would be calling for a fresh election, to get rid of the headless chooks, sorry independents, in Canberra.

Paul,

My error was in thinking of Marrickville and the greens corruption there.

Now, now, Shadow another porky from you "Marrickville and the greens corruption there." Liar liar pants on fire!

Corruption in NSW politics is strictly the province of the Liberal and Labor Parties. The "Liberal Corruption Bus' heading down to the ICAC is so full, now your man Arthur has jumped on board, its standing room only!

No wonder your federal mob want no part of a Commonwealth ICAC, it would have a field day with some of those Liberal/National rats in Canberra! Oh yes, Labor would also supply its quota as well.

Paul,

Yet another porky from you. Does Karel Solomon mean anything to you? Maybe kiddy porn might refresh your memory.

PS, even ICAC has admitted that the breaching the donations law is not corruption.

Paul,

Listen up!...

SM is schooling you on the difference between "corruption" and accepting "illegal donations".

Apparently he considers the latter is far more acceptable...and fails spectacularly to glean that indulging in illegal activities may be corrupt.

Lol!

Paul,

Is lying under Parliamentary Privilege corruption?

The Greens are adept at it.

Poirot,

I had never realised that boat people and jay walkers were corrupt. With your new definition just about everyone is corrupt.

Labor, MPs councillors, unions etc have been abusing their power to bribe, steal, and extort money from government, businesses etc, which for the uneducated, is the prime definition of corruption.

Hi Poirot, the headless chook brigade led by the chief roster himself Shadow Minister, now being assisted by the Shooters and Hooters number one sycophantic supporter, Is Mise, are running around with the message that what the NSW Liberals were indulging themselves in was not CORRUPTION. If it was not CORRUPTION then pray tell us what it was. Tell us Fellas what does the last big 'C' in ICAC stand for? I know you are slow on the up take so I'll spell it out for you.

C-O-R-R-U-P-T-T-I-O-N. One more time for the dummies;

C-O-R-R-U-P-T-T-I-O-N.

Have you worked it out by now.?

"This brings to 12 the number of state and federal LIBERAL politicians who have resigned or stood aside following CORRUPTION inquiries this year.
One, Senator Arthur Sinodinos, told the Independent Commission Against CORRUPTION on Friday he did not accept "any responsibility" for the NSW Liberal Party accepting donations from prohibited donors during the past state election campaign." -SMH my capitals.

Shadow has given up on the non existent Matraville Council and now makes totally erroneous allegations of corruption against Marrickville Council.

A quote for you lads to suck on;

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Paul,

I didn't say a word in support of the Liberals or the Laboreals, all that I asked was if it is corruption to lie under Parliamentary Privilege and observed that the Greens are adept at it.

Raw nerve, Paul?

SM,

"I had never realised that boat people and jay walkers were corrupt. With your new definition just about everyone is corrupt.'

Well, that's kinda lame...

I said:

"Apparently he considers the latter is far more acceptable...and fails spectacularly to glean that indulging in illegal activities may be corrupt."

Note the keyword "may"?

You really are a piece of work...imagine if it was the ALP accused of this - we wouldn't hear the end of it.

How many NSW Lib pollies have had to resign...How many dodgy federal Lib pollies have been given the boot?

What a party - wall-to-wall spivs!

Shadow, any reasonable fair minded person, and Poirot and I are reasonable fair minded people, would agree that any politician who accepted illegal money, such as the Liberal Party's dirty dozen in NSW, and regardless as to what purpose that money was used for, be it used for a sleazy weekend in Whopping with the mistress, while the good wife is at home attending to the poor sick little ones, or be it used for their own selfish re-election, there is no two ways about it, said politician is CORRUPT!

That is the verdict of the reasonable fair minded people.

Is Mise, good to see you have finally come over from the dark side and have distanced yourself from the evil ones within the Liberal Party. If only me old mate Shadow would do the same, and stop deluding himself about CORRUPTION in the Liberal Party, claiming it all happening in the Labor Green non existent Matraville Council!

Shadow, just on Marrickville Council, Fiona Byrne, former Greens Mayor of that council and runner up to Jenny Leong for
pre-selection in the seat of Newtown. Fiona is a very capable Greens member and I would hope to see her in State Parliament sooner rather than later. I am sure you will agree.

Paul1405: Fiona is a very capable Greens member and I would hope to see her in State Parliament sooner rather than later.

One Greenie in any Government position or Office is one too many. I am sure you will agree.

The Law says the way they receive Donations is not illegal. Then again, that's after it's been Laundered.

Paul,

Ignoring the judgement of the legal body set up to adjudicate corruption in the public sector, and instead making up your own definition is far from fair minded.

Abuse of one public position to enrich oneself or one's party is pure corruption. Examples such as councils accepting cash to rezone properties, rezoning properties which they have an interest, or simply syphoning council funds into their own accounts.

Less direct forms of corruption are accepting "donations" from companies or unions on condition of legislating in their favour. In particular after the corruption scandal in Wollongong. However, the legislation that Labor introduced, targeted donations from business that favours the coalition, yet did nothing about the dirty money coming from the unions.

That both Labor and the Greens take money from corrupt unions sourced often from extortion and other criminal activities and then install legislation that not only favours the unions, but blocks any policing of their criminal activities is the worst form of corruption.

SM: but blocks any policing of their criminal activities is the worst form of corruption.

That's why we have that Bill before the Parliament at the moment. Let hope the Independents support it. It's the Best Legislation the LNP have put forward so far.

The Greens have a considerable hide to pretend they are the keepers of the morals of others.

This woman spent more on outfitting can already pristine executive suite to meet her extreme needs and disregarded far cheaper equivalent office space in the suburb a half Km away, that was more representative of her electorate. Then she didn't think she should explain.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-greens-senator-larissa-waters-spent-414000-on-fitout-for-paddington-office/story-fnihsrf2-1226889449998

otb,

The dept of Finance is responsible for office fit outs for federal parliamentarians.

"Federal parliamentarians have criticised the Department of Finance's spend of more than $4.5 million on office "fit-outs" for MPs and senators in the final six months of last year.

From July to December 2014, more than 100 MPs and senators had new offices fitted out or upgraded — nine MPs had fit-outs worth more than $250,000."

The Finance Department is responsible for fitting out offices, and updates the public record on parliamentary entitlements, travel and office costs twice per year."

"Politicians acknowledged the need for appropriate security to protect themselves and their staff could increase costs.

But many MPs did not want to talk on camera because they did not want to wear blame for a process they had no control over.

Two MPs told 7.30 the Finance Department can make life "rather difficult"."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-30/department-of-finance-spends-millions-refitting-mps-offices/6585122

Does that not apply to Greens?.... (taking into account you'll continue to bang on about the location of her office:)

Poirot: The dept of Finance is responsible for office fit outs for federal parliamentarians.

& Just think. After the next election they have to rip out all those Office's because the New People won't take the perfectly Good Fitouts that were there before them. Especially the new Female Politicians.

I can see it now. "Ewww... The curtains don't match the Carpet & the desk doesn't go with the Paintings. Eeewwww.... Change it, change everything. Get me my Paris Decorator. & I want a new toilet, a man used that one."

Jayb, you really have a low opinion of women, as shallow, superficial air heads, when they are nothing of the sorts, heck your mother could have been a woman for all you know!
Over the years I have worked on many election campaigns for the Labor Party and The Greens, both for men and women. In general I have found women politicians, and aspiring ones at that, from all parties to be the more approachable, the more articulate, the more knowledgeable of the issues than men. The best politician I know, state or federal is a woman. Fortunately I don't know Bronwyn Bishop, if I did possibly my opinion would change.

Paul1405: you really have a low opinion of women, as shallow, superficial air heads,

No I haven't, but I do recognize the difference in their brains.

Her is a good video by Mark Gungor, a Marriage Guidance Councillor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjUFYxSxDk A Tail of Two Brains. Watch it, it's great. Funny but oh so true.

The full Video of the Seminar is long. 4+ hrs but well worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUNaZinoH_0

Lol!...there's so much corruption being exposed in the Liberal Party that Shadow Minister is literally wading through it attempting to classify bits of flotsam as he goes.

Most hilarious!

P,

You are even pathetic as a troll. With 100 future Labor MPs facing criminal charges I certainly have the last laugh.

Paul,

There is a rumour that Lee Rhiannon might be a woman.

SM,

"You are even pathetic as a troll. With 100 future Labor MPs facing criminal charges I certainly have the last laugh."

I'm telling it like it is...that's not trolling.

Watching you jump through hoops attempting to differentiate between what you consider is and is not corruption involving your party is very telling.

Every other day there's a new case of some dodgy Liberal up to his armpits.

Who are these 100 future Labor MP's?

Are you keeping track of the unionists whose TURC-related cases are being dropped - thrown out of the court system - for lack of evidence?

P,

You are the one making up the definitions of corruption as you go along. I was using the definition that ICAC used, and in spite of all your puffing, not one Liberal has been charged yet nor has anyone else been implicated.

Which is a very different case to the 100 crooked union officials. That some charges have been dropped because witnesses withdrew probably from intimidation is not an endorsement of the union thugs involved.

I look forward to the election when the crooked Shorten tries to explain why he took money from cleanevent to reduce the rates of their workers.

Paul,

"...all that I asked was if it is corruption to lie under Parliamentary Privilege and observed that the Greens are adept at it"

Well, is it?

SM,

yada, yada, yada...

Another day, another dodgy revelation....

"A second Turnbull government frontbencher has been caught up in the political donations row dogging the NSW Liberals over a finding that senior party officials used a controversial body to channel prohibited donations into its 2011 state election campaign.

Liberal rising star and Assistant Minister for Cities Angus Taylor discussed use of the controversial Free Enterprise Foundation with a former key Liberal fundraiser, Paul Nicolaou, and solicited a donation from a mining company to the organisation.

The revelation comes after cabinet secretary Senator Arthur Sinodinos was last week named in a damning report by the NSW Electoral Commission over the party's use of the federally registered FEF to "disguise" donations, including from banned donors such as property developers, to the NSW division of the party."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/assistant-minister-angus-taylor-discussed-free-enterprise-foundation-with-key-fundraiser-20160328-gns7li.html#ixzz44GeJWnk

Dear Poirot,

Sin-on-all-of-us really appears have his name mentioned every 6 months in connection with something dodgy. The new Mr Teflon I'm afraid. He must have his claws in pretty deep to have not been shown the door.

poirot: a damning report by the NSW Electoral Commission over the party's use of the federally registered FEF to "disguise" donations, including from banned donors such as property developers, to the NSW division of the party."

I would consider this to be Money Laundering.

Hey Steelie, Welcome back from the front. They didn't pick you up on the way in? Figured out if the Earth is Round like a Ball or Flat as a Tack yet?

"There is a rumour that Lee Rhiannon might be a woman." Shadow there is no second prize. You conserves should leave the humor to us Lefties and stick to what you do best, delivering messages of doom and gloom. Then on the other hand you can always make with the little joke, like sending out a list of Tony Baloney's finest achievements when he was Prime Minister. Now that will get you a laugh!

P,

Resorting to gossip?

Labor has 100 union officials charged, nearly a dozen labor party members convicted on corruption, and an ex PM that dodged charges because all the documentation and evidence "disappeared"

That makes it 120 odd to zero.

Suck it up.

Shadow, you are a crack up, and Al Capone was only a tax dodger and vacuum cleaner saleman.

Who are these people;

BARRY O'FARRELL
CRAIG BAUMANN
TIM OWEN
ANDRE CORNWELL
DARREN WEBBER
CHRIS HARTCHER
CHRIS SPENCE
BART BASSETT
and
ARTHUR SINODINOS

Besides all being members of the Liberal Party, what else do they have in common? Visiting the NSW ICAC.

Paul,

What do

Karel Solomon - (greens)
Bernard Finnigan - labor
Milton Orkopoulos - Labor
Keith Wright - Labor

have in common other than being left whinge and convicted of child sex offences

Shadow, I though you right wing blowhards were all for "law and order" seems not, at least not when it comes to CORRUPTION in the Liberal Party. If an election was held tomorrow I'm sure your would be putting a big number ONE next to the name of ARTHUR SINODINOS as your choice for senator from NSW. Turning a blind eye are you not.

I'm still waiting for details of corruption on the non-existent Matraville Council or Marrickville Council or what ever council you claim there is corrupt Greens councilors. No evidence makes you a blowhard who lacks any credibility what so ever.

Paul,

With regards CORRUPTION in Greens, I bet you would be putting a big tick against KAREL SOLOMON of the greens as senator if he wasn't in Jail.

Perhaps that is a new cause celeb for the greens. Fighting for the rights of persecuted minorities such as jailed union thugs, sex offenders, muslim terrorists etc.

The CORRUPT NSW Liberals are at it again, a number of NSW Liberal parliamentarians including the Premier Bugsy Baird have admitted to taking free-bees whenever the opportunity has arisen. Not content with taking illegal cash from developers, like other Liberal did, many now admit to taking free tickets to sporting events, entertainment shows, airlines and hotel rooms etc. One can easily imagine what flows back to those who dole out the goodies. Example, developers channeled illegal cash in and the Liberals approved over 98$ of their development applications, What does that tell you.

The CORRUPT Greens are spending vast amounts of money on travel and redecorating their offices.

SHY CORRUPTLY spent roughly $1m on travel, and Larissa Waters CORRUPTLY spent over $400k on her office, probably taking "commissions" in the process.
Karel SOLOMON of the greens CORRUPTLY downloaded and distributed child pornography
And the Greens CORRUPTLY took $1.6m in bribes from business and nearly $1m in bribes from criminal unions.

Shadow, you are becoming increasingly desperate with each post. Was that last one your "evidence" of Greens corruption on the non-existent Matraville Council, which only seems to exist in your minds eye, or was it another one of your blatant porkies? When it comes to telling fibs have you been taking lessons from Arthur and the rest of those corrupt Liberals? They went before the NSW ICAC and had no trouble telling whoppers! You seem to do the same, is it a case of monkey see, monkey do?

Plese don't be upset if Bugsy and the boys don't cut you in for some of those corrupt free-bees they have been pocketing,

Paul,

Your lies are getting more and more desperate, where has Sinodinos done anything wrong?

The CORRUPT Greens are spending vast amounts of money on travel and redecorating their offices.

SHY CORRUPTLY spent roughly $1m on travel, and Larissa Waters CORRUPTLY spent over $400k on her office, probably taking "commissions" in the process.
Karel SOLOMON of the greens CORRUPTLY downloaded and distributed child pornography
And the Greens CORRUPTLY took $1.6m in bribes from business and nearly $1m in bribes from criminal unions.

Look we all know that ALL Politicians are what we would call Corrupt.

It's just that they have framed Laws to allow them to get away with it. Running Donations through a 3rd. Party is only one method. Up dating your Office beyond reasonable value with a cut off the top & taking extended holidays (Investigation Tours) overseas before you get kicked out at the next Election are only some of the other methods used by Politicians for undeniably, personal gain.

Everybody knows that. ;-)

Sorry Jayb, but everyone does not know that, the delusional and other like minded persons such as Shadow Minister does not know that. Shadow believes that law braking by Liberal polititions like his new pin up boy Arthur is quite all right.

Shadow, how far back does your support for the CORRUPT LIBERAL PARTY in NSW go. Does it extend back to the days of that CORRUPT Liberal Primer Robin Askin. Do you remember Askin and his weekly payoff in cash from organised crime, the operators of illegal casinos, brothels and drug dealers, surly an old bloke like you would remember Askin, changed his name to Robert, thought Robin was too girly. Possible not, maybe you started supporting the CORRUPT LIBERAL PARTY in NSW when Nick Greiner become Primer, you remember Nick, the Liberal Premier who had to resign after he was found to be CORRUPT by the ICAC. Don't remember Nick? Maybe you are a naive 'Newberry' to NSW politics, and only started supporting the CORRUPT LIBERAL PARTY when 'Boozy' Barry O'Farrell got in, you must remember 'Boozy' Barry. only two primers ago, also had to resign after the ICAC found him out over a bottle of expensive plonk he took for himself and hid in his kitchen cupboard. Do you see a trend with Liberal Primers in NSW, how long will 'Bugsy' Baird survive? Had to admit he has been taking 'free-bees'. Shocking!

Paul, you only ever mention the LNP. Don't you think the ALP & especially the Greens get up to Corrupt Shenanigans as well? You could be more even in your criticism & mention the others as well.

Paul,

How far back does your support of the CORRUPT greens go,

Does it go back to the CRIMINAL Brown Eyed bob being arrested for vandalism and theft?
Does it go back to Crusty Minge resigning in disgrace after taking a $1.6m Bribe,
Does it go back to the Greens Karel Solomon being arrested for Kiddie Porn.

Arn't you ashamed for being associated with thugs and liars?

Jayb , that is most observant of you, Labor's Eddie Obeid and Ian Macdonald went beyond corrupt, they now face criminal chargers. There is no evidence of corruptions or criminality within The Greens, full stop. Unless you want to take Shadows ravings as evidence.

Shadow, I suspected early one in the thread that your posts were influenced by the hallucinatory effects of the 'Magic Mushrooms', your last post confirms my suspicions beyond doubt. Totally raving!

Paul,

I assume that your accusation of me using mushrooms is due to your unceasing use of these recreational mushrooms.

This explains your frequent lunatic rantings about corruption when no one, not even ICAC has made such findings.

Shadow me old cob, as your only "Forum Friend" I have done my best to educate you on the CORRUPTION of the NSW Liberal Party. I gave you a history lesson, Askin, Greiner then O'Farrell all Liberal Primers all tainted by CORRUPTION, all gone. I gave you the list, the nefarious dirty dozen, I wont repeat it!
Friend, what have you offered in return, malicious rubbish, incoherent babbling, unsubstantiated allegations, shocking in the extreme. Friend, I have done my best to bring you over from the dark side, into the light of Greeness, but alas I feel the adverse effects of the magic mushroom is all to much, even for you. Sleep well.

The only education you have given me is

a) the greens are clueless and nearly as CORRUPT as labor,

b) you are baked.

Lay off that stuff Paul. It's not good for you. Really.