ttbn,

Are you ever able to argue anything without resorting to ad hominem? You attack those with whom you disagree, providing no rational argument to rebut what they have said, only to slink off to another thread and re-assert the same discredited claims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

"Faith can promote and justify atrocity"

Yes it does. But let's not confuse faith with religion. Most who are religious have faith but many who have faith are irreligious or often anti-religion.

The chap standing on the edge of a trench shooting unarmed Jews also had faith that his state religion knew what was best and this task, which many found abhorrent, had to be done.
http://www.memorialdelashoah.org/upload/minisites/ukraine/en/en_exposition4-radicalisation.htm

Communists also had faith that they were at the forefront of a new age. There are iconic stories of party members arrested during Stalin's purges who, while knowing they hadn't done what had been asserted, still felt they must have done something wrong because the Party couldn't make a mistake. They had faith in the absolute 'goodness' and infallibility of the Party.

The default position for man is to believe in something. The vast majority of people in the last 50 millennia have had faith in a deity of some sort. Those without a belief in a deity seek to place their faith elsewhere which partially explains the green movement.

People need to feel they are part of something greater than themselves which transcends the 3 score and 10 years, be it a 1000 yr Reich, spreading the word of the Christ or hastening the return of the 12th imam.

The Islamist offer that something in spades and this, to their way of thinking, entitles the faithful to perpetrate their atrocities in the name of their religion.
The west can no longer match that certitude. It no longer has a story to tell that gives its peoples pride in their past and hope for their future. Movements like cultural relativism, a black armband view of history, seeing all problems as the result of western actions or imperialism have sapped the strength from our culture. For some Islam fills that hole.

Steeledux,

" if he knew Quran he wouldn't be member of ISIS."

I wonder if al-Baghdadi reads the Koran? Perhaps a little arrogant to think we know more and understand more about it than he does.

Davidf, could you be confusing faith with blind faith and unquestioning obedience, as you yourself described Abraham's actions. Perhaps his was a bit of both.

Personally I don't see faith as the enemy of reason or that they must be mutually exclusive. There is a place for faith in people's lives; its misguided faith that creates problems.

If a pole vaulter doesn't have the faith he can get over the bar, chances are he won't. By reason he knows his training and previous jumps favour a positive outcome but he must have faith in his ability to do what is required to make it happen.

mhaze,

The only difference is that one can have faith without religion, while you cannot have religion without faith.

<<But let's not confuse faith with religion.>>

Faith, in the religious sense, can be defined as a belief without evidence, the excuse people give when they don’t have a good reason to believe something, or hope and desire mistaken for knowledge. No matter how one chooses to define it, it is essential to religious belief as no-one has ever provided any reliable evidence for it.

<<The default position for man is to believe in something.>>

No, the default is no belief or a position of scepticism. Both the legal burden of proof and the philosophic burden of proof are examples of why.

<<The vast majority of people in the last 50 millennia have had faith in a deity of some sort.>>

That’s just because they were primitive, uneducated and fearful people.

<<Those without a belief in a deity seek to place their faith elsewhere which partially explains the green movement.>>

I think what you’re actually talking about a sense of purpose, not faith. Some feel a sense of purpose in being environmentally warriors, others find meaning in being sycophants to celestial dictators.

ConservativeHippie,

The pole vaulter doesn’t need faith because he/she has good reason to believe they can get over the bar.

<<If a pole vaulter doesn't have the faith he can get over the bar, chances are he won't.>>

You’re conflating two definitions of faith: trust and belief without evidence. Now sure, theists ‘trust’ their gods - and they resort to this definition when the absurdity of believing something without good reason is pointed out to them - but when they accuse atheists of having a faith too (or the Green movement, for that matter) they demonstrate that this is not what they mean when they usually talk of faith.

AJ Philips,

"Faith, in the religious sense, can be defined as a belief without evidence"

That's not faith; that's gullibility!

Faith is trust without proof.

No sorry, Aiden.

http://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=define%3Afaith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith#Religious_views