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The Forum > General Discussion > Put it into prospective Ms Hansen Young.

Put it into prospective Ms Hansen Young.

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So Ms Hansen Young has jumped on the band wagon saying all children are suffering in detention.

May I suggest to her, her followers and the good doctors, take a long hard look at where they came from, with their poverty, malnutrition and starvation and put it into prospective because at least while in detention they have food water and shelter.

If you wish to be helpful, may I suggest you channel your efforts at the core of the problem, over populating in their home lands.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 11 October 2015 5:33:07 PM
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Children need more than just food and shelter to be healthy Rehctub, and who better than all the doctors and the AMA to say that these children in detention are not healthy.
Certainly, if they say they are concerned re the children's mental health, then they are in a far better position to say what is best for them than anyone else.

It remains an absolute disgrace that 104 children remain in detention through no fault of their own. They do as they are told by their adult family members and should not be punished by our government by locking them up in detention.

These children and their mothers should be let out of detention and be allowed to live free in the community while their families claims are being assessed. Surely it wouldn't cost any more than what the government pays Nauru to keep them in detention there?
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 11 October 2015 9:52:24 PM
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pity Ms Hanson is not so concerned about children being butchered in mother's wombs.
Posted by runner, Sunday, 11 October 2015 9:57:42 PM
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butcher,

"So Ms Hansen Young has jumped on the band wagon saying all children are suffering in detention.

May I suggest to her, her followers and the good doctors, take a long hard look at where they came from, with their poverty, malnutrition and starvation and put it into prospective because at least while in detention they have food water and shelter."

What are you?

So a little psychological torture for the kiddies is what they should expect...after all, we all know that a modern first world social democracy like Australia shouldn't have to uphold the sort of standards it gives to its own people when we're dealing with desperates from elsewhere that we've banged up indefinitely in a gulag...is that how it goes, rehctub?

Doctors take a Hippocratic Oath - to do no harm.

They treat children who are suffering from their time in detention - socially and emotionally stunted, psychologically damaged from being in detention"...how can those doctors in good conscience send the kiddies back to the conditions which caused their trauma?

Children...these are children!

Of course, rehctub, your views have always come across as straight out of the horrors of Dickens.

A bit of food and shelter - and Bob's yer uncle, eh!

How do you reckon your little grandchild would develop in such a fear-driven, debased environment?

Blimey! - how debauched can you get.
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 11 October 2015 11:05:08 PM
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Suseonline - Quote "They do as they are told by their adult family members and should not be punished by our government by locking them up in detention.
These children and their mothers should be let out of detention and be allowed to live free in the community while their families claims are being assessed."

Any bet says a lot of those children were used as pawn by the parents.
Release them and the flood gate is potentially opened, they will just start coming or sending children.
Give them a loophole and they will use it.
Posted by Philip S, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:15:35 AM
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Hi Suse and Poirot away in Fiji at the moment on a working holiday seeing first hand what can be best called "happy poverty". Keep up the argument against the ignorant on here. Butch I don't believe you mean what you say, no one is that heartless.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 12 October 2015 5:23:10 AM
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Paul my interpretation of Butch is he is naïve, There is just too many trees in the way to see the scenery.

Kids should not be in detention at all. That is a blatant disaster both for the kid and for Australia. We are not a third world.

What is the crime these kids committed. These people come from a country where decisions are controlled by men. Women and kids do as they are told. I am not sure of what overpopulation of the homeland has to do with this detention here.

At least with a change from the brutal thoughts of Abbott in the distance we can be moderate and use common sense that tells you that kids in detention is an act of bastardry and need not exist in western nations.

I think we may see some commonsense prevail now Turnbull is in charge. We have been through an era of commonsense instability and confrontation rather than good govt; Which proved nothing and held us up as a nation
Posted by doog, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:16:52 AM
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No one thinks it is a good idea to keep children in detention

BUT

Splitting the family up is your "solution" ?

Be careful what you wish for !
Just have a look at what is happening in Germany today, it has become
chaos with criminal activity and rape.
It really is a monumental mess.

Large riots in Sweden have become so common that it is no longer news.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:37:35 AM
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There are only only 104 children in detention compared with 2,000 when Green/Labor finally blew government. Who's fault is it? The twaddle- talking Hanson-Young and Labor's failure in a basic requirement of government - border control. Hanson-Young and Co also forget that they, and Labor, were responsible for the DEATHS of children because of their bleeding-heart, politics-before-commonse, 'concern' for illegal arrivals who knew the risks they were taking with their children. Now they are still playing politics with something they caused and did nothing about. What a stinking bunch of hypocritical scumbags!
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:39:29 AM
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Well of course there should be no children in detention (in fact nobody should be in detention), but it is an interesting tactic to pretend as if children are there in order to deter others, even that they are tortured, while all have already been quietly settled in Australia... and keep the media out so that they can only speculate and interview a bunch of professional actors.

This is probably what I would have done, in fact I wouldn't have stopped or arrested those people in the first place, I would let them arrive but stage those concentration camps to deter others. I would also ask the refugees that arrived that in gratitude (perhaps also for a fee) they tell their families back home, their friends and especially the media that they are locked up on some tropical island in horrifying conditions.

Another way is to separate those arriving, then tell each one separately that they won a special lottery where one family in 100 was allowed to arrive in Australia while the others are locked away forever or even deliberately drowned, making each believe that it's so and only due to their sheer luck that they made it into Australia.

Can you tell that this is not already happening?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 12 October 2015 9:26:33 AM
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Poirot,

"How do you reckon your little grandchild would develop in such a fear-driven, debased environment?"

A lot better than if he/she had drowned at sea.

Good on the conservatives for stopping the boats.
Posted by Roscop, Monday, 12 October 2015 11:07:03 AM
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So why does detention of kids have to be part of stopping the boats. I can’t see a link, can you.

I see this whole detention thing as an unnecessary cost and a drain on Australia as a nation. Refugees to Cambodia at 10 million $ a head. That is money Cambodian people will never see.

Surely boats can be stopped without detention. Some see detention as a better option than drowning at sea. That statement would be best answered by persons involved in detention.

Highly politicized situation is detention. It’s always the other-sides fault. Well we have a Liberal PM that may just fix that. So would that make the fault even. The last remaining promise of Abbott is on the line
Posted by doog, Monday, 12 October 2015 11:44:39 AM
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They need to do a few of those renovation shows on TV.

For example:
Renovation Rescue - Detention Centre
The Block - Detention Centre

Well get all the trendies up there making it look nice for national tv and everyone will know they are being treated well and then we wont have to hear about it anymore.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 12 October 2015 11:47:54 AM
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Dear Critic,

<< everyone will know they are being treated well and then we wont have to hear about it anymore.>>

On the contrary - everyone should be made to (wrongly) believe that they are being extremely ill-treated, so that others would not be tempted to make the trip to Australia.

Likely, this is the reason for the recent laws that prevent reporting on the refugees' situation, lest it be disclosed how well they are actually treated...
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:20:35 PM
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It really is quite simple doog;
Those now in detention arrived under the Labour government.
There are none in detention under the Libs because none have arrived.

Got it ? Simple isn't it.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:35:38 PM
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Sarah Hanson Young (SHY) is a rude, arrogant, overbearing BS artist.

Only the Green Left loving ABC regards SHY as credible. The ABC's Leigh Sales et al treat the hypocritical BS artist with kid gloves. That is the ABC's informal 'Progressive' editorial policy at work. The informal editorial policy the ABC doesn't want to talk about, but is glaringly obvious.

Everyone else has had it up to the back teeth with her hypocrisy, rudeness and dumb-ass stupidity.

Immigration Minister Peter Dutton’s spokesman said Ms Hanson-Young’s behaviour was hypocritical: “It’s a pity this Senator wasn’t so caring when hundreds of illegal maritime arrivals were dying in waters to Australia’s north after the Greens and Labor threw open our borders to the people smugglers.

<“No one will ever forget her callous ‘tragedies happen, accidents happen’ response to the loss of those lives.”>

Nor will the public forget her crass hypocrisy in making a meal out of pollies' travel,
http://tinyurl.com/onqjcyw

Above all though, SHY is a buffoon, a clown, who rides the moral BS wagon. The ABC's very comfortably well-to-do management and TV hosts have always given a free podium to moral BS artists.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:47:23 PM
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All I am saying is that if they are in detention they are far better off than they woukd have been had they not come in the first place.

I also note the green/labor supporters didn't kick up a stink when Rudd caused 2000 odd to be in detention.

How very convenient of you all.

While i acknowledge they are kids, I say put it into prospective simply because they are far better off than they were.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:48:11 PM
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That should be 'Hansen' in the poseur's hyphenated name.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 12 October 2015 12:49:50 PM
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Bazz get deprogrammed. The untruths and the propaganda has ended. Abbott is long gone. We have a new PM and we can now have a say in the running of our country. Our new PM is liberal and we have returned to democracy.

OTB The ABC is there for your information, Lady Hanson-Young had a job to do and she done it well. Persons being interviewed must answer the question and not answer with rabble, or they will be cross examined with gusto. That is their job. And they are very well practiced at it.

Butcher Kids need not be in detention no matter where they came from. It is nothing short of a disgrace.
Posted by doog, Monday, 12 October 2015 1:59:23 PM
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doog, "Lady Hanson-Young"

Aren't the Greens opposed to titles? The compartmentalised minds of leftists.

SHY is a moral bullsh...er of the first order and the ABC deserves its reputation for giving moral bullsh...ers a free podium. ABC management could use some education on ethical reporting. What about its reluctance to invite speakers of note to balance the moral bullsh...ers it has preferred and given oxygen to for years?

SHY aims her moral BS at her constituency. It never about solving problems. It is all about sensationalism and headlines and geeing up the protest vote to keep the same old non-productive seat polishers in the Senate.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 12 October 2015 2:35:43 PM
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Doog, the 15yo who murdered that police worker the other week was from Iran. How many of these kids are from Iran, and how many will turn out the way this kid did?
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 12 October 2015 3:01:04 PM
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Butch No kids turn out that way, Kids are taught every thing they know. Police are doing everything possible on that front.

Instead of hanging a dead kid it is best to get the people that taught this kid to do what he did. that is a far better way to go.
Posted by doog, Monday, 12 October 2015 3:11:30 PM
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Rehctub, are you seriously calling all kids from Iran as potential murderers?
What a terribly racist thing to say.
Murderers come from all walks of life, unfortunately.

OTB, you are being totally over the top re your reactions to Hansen Young.
Could it be because she is a dreaded female politician?
Surely not.....
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 12 October 2015 3:12:44 PM
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Suseonline,

LOL, your sexism would deny SHY's recognition.

SHY works hard at being a moral bullsh...er. Woman or not she deserves the acknowledgement that she is without doubt a moral bullsh...ter of the FIRST ORDER.

OK, just to suit your fancy, although few here would ever dispute that gender is no barrier where BS is concerned, here is one of the male bullsh...ers that hangs from the ABC's teat and has done so for yonks,

<Phillip Adams on how to be a moral bullsh…er

How to be a moral poseur - a mere Man of Seeming, blind to the Doing - as demonstrated by the ABC’s Phillip Adams.
..
Adams’ moralising is vain, dishonest, evasive and blind to consequences. He is all posture, no responsibility. He is the perfect 21st Century bullsh...er.>
http://tinyurl.com/lsohu8m

Although some here on OLO aren't too far behind in the moral bullsh...er stakes either. What about the children and lets forget those drownings, eh what?
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 12 October 2015 4:07:57 PM
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Well what's new. We all know SHY is a BS artist of the first order of Magnitude. Why anyone listens to what she has to say is beyond me. Still, the only ones that really listen to her are her own Dyed in the Wool Greenie fans.

As for the children in detention. The parents knew what was going to happen. They came by leaky boat, knowing full well, they would end up in a detention camp. The parents MUST be charged with, Reckless Endangerment of a Minor, & sent packing.

SOL: are you seriously calling all kids from Iran as potential murderers? What a terribly racist thing to say.

Firstly it's not Racist. Religionist, it maybe, but not Racist. & Yes I believe that there is the potential of these children turning into moslem Terrorists. Just going on the growing frequency of children being led into fundamental islam in Western Countries.

Pulling the Racist card is always a good call when you haven't got anything of value to say.

Armcahir Critic: They need to do a few of those renovation shows on TV.

The Australian Government provided them with, at least 3* accommodation then they renovated it into 0*'s themselves in riots & refusing to clean up filth of their own making.

As for bring the woman to Australia to have an Abortion. Would the Right to Life, have something to say about that? I bet. I say prosecute the Rapist under Australian Law & send him back to where he came from. Then, let the lady be dealt with under their own Sharia Law. Seems like the right thing to do, eh.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 October 2015 5:16:09 PM
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Suseonline, "...because she is a dreaded female politician?" I would have another adjective in the descriptive:"fruitcake".
Posted by Roscop, Monday, 12 October 2015 6:39:10 PM
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Roscop,

"Good on the conservatives for stopping the boats."

Which, of course, is a load of old cobblers.

But seeing as the likes of you think that if Abbott bleated "stopped the boats" 13 times a day it must be true...Lol!

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/aug/06/australia-turned-back-20-asylum-seeker-boats-with-633-people-in-past-18-months

"The Australian government has turned back 20 boats carrying 633 asylum seekers in the past 18 months, the immigration minister announced on Thursday.

Peter Dutton confirmed there had been 20 turnbacks since December 2013 but would not go into detail about when they occurred."

"Dutton said the phrase “turnbacks” included scenarios such as assisted returns."

So the boats haven't "stopped"....which has been a nice little "secret". Further to that, if any have come to grief, whether by embarking initially or being "returned", there's no way to know because of the secrecy.

...at least, we will know eventually, but by then Dutton the Gormless will be long gone.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:03:40 PM
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Ar Suze, if i were outvfishing you woukd be a marlin my dear, the way you manage to portray me as a mean nasty person never ceases to amaze me.

For starters, where did I say all kids from Iran are a problem.

You see while every Muslim is not a terrorist, the majority of terrorists are Muslims. So it stands to reason that if you bring a kid in from a Muslim background, you stand a better chance of ending up with another 15yo terrorist.

Doog, we know what the problem is we just can't do anything about it. So the best we can do is to avoid immigration from countries known to have terrorism connections, whether they be men, women or children because when we see the likes of what happened in Sydney or the kid holding the severed head, or even the baby in the pram incident, it's like baking a cake. All you need is the ingredients and add hatred. Leave a key ingredient out though and you have no cake.

Besides, if people feel sorry for kids, look after those here who are neglected, but there's no news value in that hey.
Posted by rehctub, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:08:10 PM
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poirot: "Dutton said the phrase “turnbacks” included scenarios such as assisted returns.

Semantics. Who cares, as long as they never get here & are returned from whence they came or embarked. That's all that matters.

Their Religion is totally incompatible & a danger to any civilized World. Nothing to do with Race as they are many different Races, their commonality is Islam. Baaaad news everywhere it goes.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:30:35 PM
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Rehctub, you know I am right on the mark with you, where Muslims are concerned.
You paint them all with the same brush, just like your white male comrades Banjo, ttbn and Jay of Melbourne.

As for immigration, did we stop all the Irish migrating here when the terrorists were blowing up innocent people in Ireland and England? What about the Spanish and their terrorists? The Russians? Not quite the same thing?

OTB, I don't think I really have to go on much about your well known misogynistic views on this forum, as your posts explain it well enough....what with your fascination with Government 'teats' etc. Charming as ever.
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 12 October 2015 8:33:32 PM
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doog you said;
So why does detention of kids have to be part of stopping the boats. I can’t see a link, can you.

and I replied;
It really is quite simple doog;
Those now in detention arrived under the Labour government.
There are none in detention under the Libs because none have arrived.
You said:
Bazz get deprogrammed. The untruths and the propaganda has ended.

I just cannot see the logic of your last reply. No boat kids have
been detained by the Libs, because no boats have arrived !
It is simple isn't it ?
Kids are NOT part of stopping the boats. they already HAVE STOPPED !
The the number of kids there have fallen by nearly 2000 !

The whole goings on about the kids in detention is a total nonsense !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 12 October 2015 9:10:37 PM
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SOL: did we stop all the Irish migrating here when the terrorists were blowing up innocent people in Ireland and England? What about the Spanish and their terrorists? The Russians?

At least they were Christian & I don't remember any Sectarian Violence Committed by them in Australia. Nor the Christian Spanish & Russians. At least the Spanish were fighting against a Fascist Dictator named Franco.

This lot just want to kill people because they are not moslems & allah tells them to or else they won't go to heaven.

Does Australia really need this type of Religion on it's shores. I don't think so. Multiculturism is a failure for Australian Society.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 12 October 2015 9:11:07 PM
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Oh Dear, the labour party computer is back !
Her decoding of messages is worse now than when Labour was in government.

She really does not understand which way is up.

>Separate reply

Suzie said;
did we stop all the Irish migrating here when the terrorists were
blowing up innocent people in Ireland

Really Suzie, I don't think you are that stupid, so you insult the
rest of us by making a comment like that about those circumstances
and times.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 12 October 2015 9:25:37 PM
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A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of what race, religion or color they are.
Their victims are just as injured or dead, regardless of the perpetrators.

I just watched a program about a bunch of truly mindless morons that call themselves the United Patriot Front. They are against Islam and Muslims it seems, and they seem like an overly aggressive little bunch, showing their muscles, tats, and their big loud mouths, all the while ranting about how much they love Australia....oi, oi oi....

Not my Australia...
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 12 October 2015 10:20:32 PM
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Okay... can any of our resident tories explain why keeping children in detention is necessary to stop the boats? I understand the arguments in favour of detaining adults, but I don't get why it's necessary to keep kids locked up as well. Surely they're not the people making the decision to enter Australia by boat?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 12 October 2015 10:32:26 PM
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No Tony, but it means splitting the family up.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 12 October 2015 10:55:31 PM
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Jayb, I'm nit so sure multiculturalism has been a failure in Oz, but what I refer to as 'Muslimism' most certainly has.

Toni, the kid who shot the police worker came from Iran. It's fair to assume he was radicalized by Muslims here in Oz, so, why risk offer more innocent children to these insane people.

Besides, it's nit just the kids Ms Young is calling for the release of, it's their mothers as well.

At some point even the dumbest of the dumb must cone to the realization that if you keep allowing Muslims in you are asking for trouble.

They are not Australians, in fact a large portion of them hate us, it's just that we're stupid enough to not only allow them in, but to support them and their ten kids.

Suze, you can try as much as you like to make me out to be racist, but all I have ever said is that even Muslim leaders themselves can't control extremists, so why take the risk.

As for the white crack, I'm against anyone who refuses to better themselves and expects me to support their wasteful lazy ways. It just so happens that our indigenous folk have a higher percentage of such people. It's been 200+ years, time to move on my dear.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 7:21:02 AM
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The children are locked up because their parents brought them here illegally and they have had it made clear to them that people coming by boat will not be settled in Australia. The government has said that, and now the opposition has said it. Get used to it, you Left wing traitors and anarchist Australia-wreckers. Hanson-Young and the Greens are rubbish.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 8:43:06 AM
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BAZZ kids and mothers. The biggest part of Australia do not believe with kids in detention . Who cares who done it, Your boats not arriving is red hot B/s You do not need to know.

Stopping the boats has nothing to do with detention. Abbott said no one will be resettled in Australia. Bill said we will keep stopping the boats.

So with detention centre’s you are defending Toni’s last remaining Promise. What a killer Not one promise kept. We are still waiting for our share of the carbon tax. Another blatant lie.
Leave it to Malcolm and Bill they will sort it out.
Posted by doog, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 8:54:57 AM
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Tony Lavis,

"Okay... can any of our resident tories explain why keeping children in detention is necessary to stop the boats?..."

Precisely...(and I'd extend that to all who are banged up in our camps)

If boats are still embarking, but being turned around and returned at sea - then why is Australia getting its jollies from incarcerating and psychologically torturing those on Nauru and Manus?

It's not being used as a "deterrent" because the Navy are forcibly intercepting and returning any boat they find...that's the deterrent.

Australia is indulging in pure sadism regarding those kiddies on Nauru.

rehctub,

"Besides, if people feel sorry for kids, look after those here who are neglected, but there's no news value in that hey."

Yeah, "hey".....I'm of the opinion that you will never give two hoots for any child that's not of a certain socio-economic echelon. It's kinda sickening.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 9:12:01 AM
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rechub: Jayb, I'm nit so sure multiculturalism has been a failure in Oz, but what I refer to as 'Muslimism' most certainly has.

I prefer, & I feel that most people other than the PC & Greenies, that "Inclusivism" would be better for Australia. By that I mean New Australians taking up Australian Culture, as did the immigrants after WW2.

Multiculturism is divisive. It encourages immigrants to keep their own Culture & shun Australian. Which is exactly what is happening.

SHY & her ilk are promoting the division of the Australian people. The result is the violence Australia in now experiencing. This Violence didn't happen when Inclusivism was the norm.

I agree Muslimism has been a big failure. A Religious Culture which does not fit in anywhere, even in the Middle East.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 9:24:51 AM
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I do not think anyone is promoting that Muslims keep and practice their islam here. Multiculturalism is
used as a country with different races of people.

You are talking about Sharia law. Australia has it’s laws that all cultures must follow. That is the message that must get through.

Muslims back as far as 50 + years, they have been here for. The Mosques is where they get instruction and bible study. So this is the place where Australian law is needed to be learned.

A handful of rogues is what is causing the issues. The wider Muslim community has got to be on board to tell others that terrorism is not acceptable practice here.

Abbott saying an attack is imminent and Death Cult may be the cause of the last lot. No one will take discrimination like that. No one is born a terrorist.

The island of Arche, off Indonesia practices sharia law. That is their business, and what happens here is Australia’s business.
Round them up and get rid of them, that is an Abbottism. They are Australian citizens, those with duel passports, which is wrong it should be one or the other. If they overstep the mark they need to be stripped of Australian citizenship and deported.

No different than any duel citizen. They can all get a visa to travel if their nose is clean.

Group housing is a bad idea, no one wants to see a Muslim town. Integration is the name of the game.
Posted by doog, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 10:03:30 AM
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Bazz,

"Oh Dear, the labour party computer is back !
Her decoding of messages is worse now than when Labour was in government."

Lol!...but I come here Bazz to keep abreast of the midgetry spouted from the fearful fellas on OLO (you know, the one's who shriek to high heaven things like "The whole goings on about the kids in detention is a total nonsense !" - and who still (after all these years) can't manage to spell "Labor" as Labor - like...um...it's spelled".

The likes of many yodelling around here bring into sharp focus the contrast between the integrity and nobility of the RCH doctors and themselves...the gulf is huge.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 10:05:47 AM
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poirot: the integrity and nobility of the RCH doctors and themselves...

I have an idea. Let those Doctors take personal responsibility for those children in their own homes. When they are well enough they can join their mothers on the island again on their self renovated housing.

Any time you want to answer my questions, poirot, I'm ready. Would you like for me to post them again for you.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 11:30:29 AM
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It is all politics. Some here have very short memories. There were 2,000 children in detention in 2013 and 1400 when the LNP took over the reins of government.

It says a lot though about the sort of people who pay people smugglers that they cannot be trusted around minors. Although reports rely mainly on unsubstantiated hearsay.

If the administration of the centres needs to be improved and 'human headline' Sarah Hanson Young's allegations are based on dated information, any suggestions for improvement should be directed at the government of the republic of Nauru. The Australian government can always provide financial assistance.

However, no-one wants to return to the porous borders and drownings of the Rudd and Gillard(plus her Greens sidekicks) era.

Waiting to see action on the children in those 'Struggle Streets' and in indigenous communities. That is different, apparently.

Here is an opportunity for the moral BS artists on this thread who were as quiet as mice during the Rudd and Galah'd governments to finally do some good. Open that tightly clenched purse and send some $$ this way,

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4231818.htm

What about a few dollars for the drought-affected farmers in Queensland too?

http://www.farmweekly.com.au/news/agriculture/general/news/rural-poverty-dogs-droughthit-qld/2745580.aspx
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:32:34 PM
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It is not good govt; policy that pays 10 million $ / refugee to settle in Cambodia. That is the going price.

Negotiated by Abbott. That is not good govt; policy.

You need to let go of your Far right views and join the rest of Australia. Malcolm and Bill will handle it.
Posted by doog, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 2:35:43 PM
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....You are talking about Sharia law. Australia has it’s laws that all cultures must follow. That is the message that must get through.

So how do we do that doog, it's not worked thus far.

You say integration is they key. Try telling them that, of cause it doesn't help when many of them hate us.

As for Bill, well he's about as popular as a dropped pie mate and other than cause mayhem in the workplace, is incapable of nothing.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 2:46:59 PM
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"Any time you want to answer my questions, poirot, I'm ready. Would you like for me to post them again for you."

Lol!...Notwithstanding I caught the last line of your last post - don't flatter, yourself, Jayb....I don't even bother reading your guff these days.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 4:31:39 PM
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poirot: ....I don't even bother reading your guff these days.

Well I don't blame you. Going by your beliefs you obviously stand by, you wouldn't want to make a fool of yourself, would you? ;-)

Answer them, if not for me for everyone else on OLO or the Forum. I'm sure they would be fascinated to know your answers. I already know.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 4:53:36 PM
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"Answer them, if not for me for everyone else on OLO or the Forum. I'm sure they would be fascinated to know your answers....'

Can't you read, Jayb,?

When I said I don't usually read your stuff, I meant it.

I didn't know you had asked any questions. I haven't read them...and I don't have any intention of bothering to find and read them in the future - let alone respond to them.

You've proved to me in the past that you'll say anything and misrepresent anyone if it suits you.

Therefore, your blatherings on here are of no interest to me whatsoever.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 5:08:59 PM
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doog,
Quote,"Muslims back as far as 50 + years, they have been here for. The Mosques is where they get instruction and bible study. So this is the place where Australian law is needed to be learned".

True but naive.
The Koran is the writings of Mohamed and the followers of Mohamed do the works of Mohamed and Western society is anathema to Islam.|"Australian Law is in conflict with the divine Law of Allah". They will never teach Australian laws and values till Shari'a becomes Australian law. e.g. Some Banks offer Muslims loans interest free, just an upfront fee
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 5:17:03 PM
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Poirot: didn't know you had asked any questions. I haven't read them.

Well, Here they are again poirot.

1) Do you consider a Secularphile to be an extremist who spreads hate against non-moslem unbelievers? "Yes" or "No."

2) Do you agree that;
Australia must become the Great Southern Caliphate,
All Australians must become moslems,
Sharia Law must be implemented in Australia,
Homosexuals & Adulterers must be whipped & stoned in Australia,
All Women in Australia must wear the face Burka or similar covering.

Do you agree that you want these thing or not? “Yes or “No.”

3) Persecution & Oppression does that mean anything that moslems declare as Persecution or Oppression, is, to Islam. E.g.:

Refusal to allow a moslem to marry & consummate that marriage with a child under the age of 16,
Refusal to be allowed to build a Mosque,
Refusal to move a Pig farm after a Mosque is build on the neighbouring land,
Refusing to grant a special day for moslems & screen off an area for moslem women at the Local Swimming Pool,
Refusal to put a screen around the Local Pool because the sight of so many naked bodies is offensive to moslems.
Refusing to pay to have a food declared Halal.
Refusing to let women wear the Burka, or other such women's clothing.
Refusing to recognize Sharia Law in Australia.
Refusing a moslem more than one wife.

Does Refusing any of the above list mean that moslems are being Persecuted, Oppressed, or that a “State of War” exists? “Yes” or “No.”

Equal rights.
Seeing that a Moslem male (husband)is allowed to have a temporary wife while he is away from home.

Is a moslem woman (wife) allowed to have a temporary husband while her husband is away? Or, would she be committing Adultery? "Yes" or "No."

Science question
Is the World flat or round like a ball? "Yes" or "No."

Does the Sun travel around the Earth or the Earth travel around the Sun? "Yes" or "No."

Medical question
Is illness caused by bad Jinns? "Yes" or "No."
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 6:01:20 PM
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I look forward to your answers in the spirit of expanding my knowledge of the wonderful world of Islam.

Of course if you refuse to answer these simple questions on Islam that indicates to me, at least, that your answers are all, Yes. That, I presume, would be the only reason you would refuse to someone who is very interested in learning about the true tenants of Islam.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 6:04:22 PM
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Lol!...Jayb...(what am I doing back here when I've got friends arriving for dinner in half an hour!)

But I note you've gone to all the trouble to daub some lengthy posts upon this thread.

Sorry - didn't read the actual content.

I'd love to stay here and trade insults - but I've got a lasagna to throw together.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 6:27:04 PM
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poirot: I'd love to stay here and trade insults - but I've got a lasagne to throw together.

I take exception to that. What insults?

Enjoy your Lasagne. Feel free to use the questions as conversation starters & get back to me with the results of your evening.

Love JB
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 7:50:40 PM
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If Poirot doesn't read Jayb's post as he claims, how does he respond to three of them in a row?.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 13 October 2015 8:41:51 PM
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......Yeah, "hey".....I'm of the opinion that you will never give two hoots for any child that's not of a certain socio-economic echelon. It's kinda sickening.

Poirot, sorry for the delay but I can't let your swipe at me go unchallenged.

During my 20 plus years in business I have provided support to the tune of $250K plus, most of which went towards children.

So what support have you given in that time period.

What most here are missing is that these kids are far better off where they are than where they came from and, the fact that they arrived illegally (albeit through their parents doing) does not give them the right to jump the que so as to speak.

The other point is there were 2000 in detention during Labors abortion of a management plan, there are now something in the order of 140. So where did the additional 860 go?

The other point you and your mates forget (conveniently I would suggest) is that labor built to camps, the libs have just been left with the mess and, I didn't hear a peep from you back then.

Perhaps you did kick up a stink and I missed it, Did you?

The fact if the matter is that as a previous poster has pointed out, which of cause you chose to ignore, is that if we let them in, we risk reopening the flood gates, these are the gates that labor created, and couldn't repair for two terms, yet they are the same ones Abbott closed in less than a year.

But do remember, labor caused this mess, then through their sheer incompetence, were dumped by the people and simply washed their hands of the problem, then had the hide to accuse others of causing the problem.

Have I got that right Poirot. Ar hang on, you don't answer questions do you!
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 3:24:22 PM
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rehctub,

"During my 20 plus years in business I have provided support to the tune of $250K plus, most of which went towards children.

So what support have you given in that time period."

So we both sponsor/support kids - my sponsorships are overseas...(yes, me too!)

I haven't bothered actually toting up the $$$, but for over 12 years - and ongoing.

"What most here are missing is that these kids are far better off where they are than where they came from and, the fact that they arrived illegally (albeit through their parents doing) does not give them the right to jump the que so as to speak."

For a start "it is not illegal to seek asylum" - and no matter what Morrison spun, they are NOT "illegal" which was a term he hijacked - and which pertained to a minor aspect in the technical classification of their arrival.

"The other point you and your mates forget (conveniently I would suggest) is that labor built to camps..."

Yes - that stinks as well!

"Perhaps you did kick up a stink and I missed it, Did you?"

Yes, you did...try foraging around for a succession of posts from me when Rudd announced his "Vote for me - I'm a Bastard too!" camp announcements.

"Have I got that right Poirot. Ar hang on, you don't answer questions do you!"

Well, yes I do Mr Butcherman, Sir - (just because I only read Jayb's three liners and ignore his longer posts, that's because I've had vast experience with his underhand style of interaction. I really do scroll straight past his longer guff these days....excellent!)

Getting back to your:

"...these kids are far better off where they are than where they came from..."

I find it deplorable that a fortunate man such as yourself can dismiss the child abuse and psychological abuse presided over by Australia - and excuses it on the grounds that the victims fled worse - an example of moral and ethical midgetry.

How can any grown adult dismiss child abuse thus?
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 6:24:52 PM
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Lol!...I'll just add this - presuming Jayb will attempt to daub his usual rubbish in reference to my "overseas child sponsorship".

They are in Ethiopia - and they're Christian.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 6:44:49 PM
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Doog, you said ...A handful of rogues is what is causing the issues. The wider Muslim community has got to be on board to tell others that terrorism is not acceptable practice here.

And where do you think these rogues came from Doog?

When you allow people to immigrate, that are known to harbor and promote harm to others, show little to no respect for women and promote children to be married, in total disregard for our laws, you have the ingredients for trouble and as I say, leave the key ingredient out of the cake and you have no cake.

I also see police have arrested a 12yo for suspected terrorism in connection with the NSW police terror attack.

I ask you one simple question, in fact I ask you all, how much more evidence do you need that proves allowing these people in comes with greatly increased risks. I believe we should remove the welcome mat to anyone until we find a way to deal with this increasing terror risk.

Poirot, good on you but I prefer to channel my support locally.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 7:36:10 PM
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poirot: Jayb will attempt to daub his usual rubbish in reference to my "overseas child sponsorship".

I had absolutely no idea you sponsored children anywhere.

If it one of those Sponsor Children Charities I be a bit wary if I were you. I had some people knock on my door the other day & wanted me to sponsor a child in Kenya. I looked at it & asked them to wait. I collect those cards. I found the exact same child from some 20 years ago from Ethiopia on a Save the Children Campaign. I showed them the card & they said they didn't know & it possibly wouldn't be that exact child I'd be sponsoring.

So I do some checking if I were you. Those Charities are usually a Scam like the one from the ATO on Channel 9 tonight.

I was just about to send this when I remembered something about the Save the Children Scam. The Scam was exposed on one of the Current Affair Programmes a few years ago. A Group of people met at a Caravam Park found they had all been sponsoring the same child & getting all exactly the same personal letters & photographs from this child for years. The TV Channel did some checking & found hundreds of people with the same child, letters & photographs from the same Charity.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 14 October 2015 8:01:28 PM
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Increasing terror attacks, There are Multiple times more killed on our roads, but that gets a very subdued response. Butch You have been radicalized by Abbott. You need to get over that it is not good for your wellbeing.

We have a very stable govt; in place now, and well placed to handle our safety. The last two years were a total loss, and now we can get on with the job.

It is best to have faith in our authorities rather than Rambo groups that think it is best to go by violence. These mobs are just as bad as a terrorist organization, and should be under the same banner.

Best we leave it to Mal and bill that is our best hope.
Posted by doog, Thursday, 15 October 2015 5:30:37 AM
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I am in Fiji at the moment and anyone interested in sponsorship programs there are a couple of good ones here both child and village based sponsorship. Of a more long term benefit is the 'rice growing program' rice as a cash crop 85% is imported. Australians failed 20 years ago but the new program is using an adaptation of the Thai growing method and is proving successful in wet lands and hopefully also soon in "dry" lands as well. With sponsorship a good Org will always allow contact between both parties school
village visits etc supervised contact. An Australian millionaire businessman I met this trip puts his money into teeth, costs about $2k per child max I know he put $80k into that program alone last year puts lots in, no fuss no tax dodge.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 15 October 2015 5:45:01 AM
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Paul1405,

Just as a heads-up, there is NO way I would be putting money into any traditional method of rice production because of the serious long-term environmental problems, including production of large quantities of Methane (CH4).

Then there are the serious problems to human health of mosquitoes and snails and the pesticides used.

Like some others on OLO you are forever bagging Australia - failed you say.

However what never seems to cross your mind is that Australian farming and hopefully the millions of dollars of international aid (aid of which the country you mention is also a large beneficiary), is modern, highly efficient and has an eye for sustainability and locals' health.

Now, about that $2,000 max per child for teeth, doesn't it strike you that someone might be having a lend of you?
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 15 October 2015 12:38:21 PM
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What about these clearly 'green' doctors who say that the are going to hang onto the children of illegals in their care? What about the breathless idiots who think that doctors have a say in in immigration and border-protection policies? What about the fact that we do not split children from their families (and these same useful idiots condemn the removal of aboriginal children from their dysfunctional families?) Do we also release the parents who are not suitable people to stay in Australia? Do these 'useful idiot' doctors not know that they are presenting a new business plan to people smugglers? Boat loads of unaccompanied children preparing the way for their parents to come here under family reunion (can't split up families, you know).

Send in police to return these children to the detention centres to be with their parents.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 15 October 2015 1:08:09 PM
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Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull finally granted an abortion for a refugee rape victim from Nauru detention centre. But now another women who says she was attacked has been named by police. Louise Burke reports

The decision to grant a 23-year-old Somali refugee - raped on the offshore detention centre Nauru - an abortion was the only acceptable outcome, after a week of high media scrutiny and public outcry.
Prime minister Malcolm Turnbull’s Government deserves some credit for coming to its senses and transferring her to Australia on Sunday.
But, as one injustice was being remedied against this poor woman, another was being committed against a second alleged rape victim on the women’s island prison.
Nauru police investigating the case of a 26-year-old Somali woman - whose distress call to police to report being raped and bashed by two local men was broadcast by ABC - reportedly named her in a public statement via an Australian PR company
Posted by doog, Thursday, 15 October 2015 4:31:28 PM
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"Melbourne's medicos remind us that the utilitarian politics behind our brutal asylum seeker policy strikes at the heart of our civilisation.

It's easy to forget there was a time that we didn't justify our asylum seeker policies by claiming they were "stopping deaths at sea". Once upon the Howard era, we were candid enough to say flat out it was a bald assertion of sovereignty, bolstered by a general hunch we didn't really like these people very much."

(Not that the majority of folks on threads like this ever bother to hide their xenophobia - although I note the latest lament that the kids should be returned to abusive situations so they can be beside their equally abused parents)

"Viewed through that history we can see just how remarkable the transformation has been. "Deaths at sea" allowed us to take a crassly nationalistic argument and turn it instead into a moral one. The odd "economic refugees" or "Christians only" snipe aside, we stopped attacking refugees directly and attacked people smugglers instead. Brutality was transformed into a kind of muscular compassion, and every confirmation of the psychological (and sometimes physical) destruction of people under our jurisdiction was rendered a sober necessity. Deterrence, no matter what horrors it entailed, became the only moral position. That, insisted Malcolm Turnbull this week, is "the melancholy truth".

And it is precisely this that makes the current refusal of doctors at Melbourne's Royal Children's Hospital to discharge their asylum-seeker patients if they are to be returned to immigration detention so potent. In a debate that is so constant and repetitive it has become mere auditory wallpaper, theirs is the most disruptive intervention in years. And that's because it is so explicitly not political.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/doctors-protest-over-asylum-seekers-shows-us-what-real-morality-is-all-about-20151014-gk9emp.html#ixzz3ocS3ZxwI
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 15 October 2015 5:29:03 PM
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poirot: although I note the latest lament that the kids should be returned to abusive situations so they can be beside their equally abused parents)

Who said they are abused just by being in a place where they knew they were going to end up in.

poirot: turn it instead into a moral one.

No, one of protecting the Australian people against importing an evil religion that is even now hurting them.

doog: The decision to grant a 23-year-old Somali refugee - raped on the offshore detention centre Nauru - an abortion was the only acceptable outcome, after a week of high media scrutiny and public outcry.

Have we heard from the "Right to Life" people on this decision.

& Now by the look of it a flood of suddenly raped women are popping up everywhere. Foot in the door? They & their greenie ilk will try anything.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 15 October 2015 7:30:50 PM
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Poirot,

Both you and Waleed Ali have considerable gall to accuse the government (and the Opposition too who support stopping the boats) of utilitarianism.

Then there is this noxious, unexplained and unsubstantiated allegation against the Australia that has taken in so many migrants and implemented so much 'diversity' as to threaten continuance of its own culture,

"the utilitarian politics behind our brutal asylum seeker policy strikes at the heart of our civilisation"

Honestly now, what a load of steaming manure and very solidly establishing the author's claims to the title of Moralising BS Artist. There are a few like him around.

tbc..
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 15 October 2015 7:40:49 PM
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contd..

However I also read some posts in the link that did not make it a complete waste of time. Here is one from 'Crystal Clear',

" There are now fewer than 100 children in detention, on or offshore. I understand some of these are the families of failed asylum seekers, some on security grounds,who cannot be returned to their countries. Some from Nauru have been offered to be able to come to the mainland but without the refused parent. This has been declined.Do you have the figures, Waleed?

If we examine the European analogy, the number of arrivals, and the rate of drownings in the Mediterranean increased greatly after Italy commenced their Mare Nostrum pick-up and then EU started Operation Trident. Why? Inflatable canoes, even more disastrously overloaded, rather than marginally seaworthy boats were used as the migrants would ring to be picked up mere kilometres from the African coast. Result: more deaths. If Schengen rules were enforced at point of entry, fewer would have attempted the trip also.

Between Greece and Turkey there were few drownings until Merkel recklessly offered German hospitality. Then the rush in flimsy inflatables , overloaded, without safety jackets or reliable skippers , commenced, as all know the door cannot be kept open for long.
So there is substance to the argument that these "stop the boats"policies save lives.

I do not want to see children in detention either. The Liberal government is doing well to have the numbers as low as they are. But it is hard to be sure of anything Waleed when one does not know ( and cannot know for privacy reasons?) all of the details of the Australian detainees.

Maybe one should say that after WW2 even fascists and Nazis who wanted a fresh start became good citizens all over the world. So if the kids have unacceptable parents, let them in. Your street, or mine?- yours, please."
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 15 October 2015 7:42:36 PM
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Beach, no one is asking you, or anyone, to put money into rice farming in Fiji. The aim is to make Fiji self-sufficient in rice production by 2020 thus saving the economy about $40m annually. The latest venture is Korean backed through GRFC, I spoke to a company rep last week about the project and he gave me a bit of run down on the aims and future plans and I wish them well, the fact the Australian venture of 20 years ago failed is neither here nor there, and its not bagging Australia. These people are simply trying something different, Fiji thanks Australia for what we do for them both in aid and through the tourism industry, Fiji's largest industry now, taking over from sugar production.
Again, no one is having a lend of me regarding children's dental work

http://www.agriculture.gov.fj/index.php/newsroom/press-releases?id=257
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 17 October 2015 10:33:00 AM
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