Ok Poirot, so are you suggesting there are no cases out there where revenge by man haters occur.

These women, and they're not the majority by any means, will stop at nothing to see their x skinned alive, even if it does effect the kids.

Many women of broken relationships are not content with seeing their x on skid row, and many of those, while starting out with fairness in mind, change their minds and stop at nothing to see their x completely shattered.

Now of cause there are plenty of thugs who leave their women stranded as well, but if a woman finds herself in a violent relationship, then pushes him driven by revenge, then it's little wonder some get fatally hurt. I'm not supporting the practice, merely pointing out one cause.

Now this cause could be addressed by dealing with the extremely unfair child support arrangements, as many men are prevented from moving on because they get screwed over by the x.

Now I don't disrespect people without money, what I disrespect is people who knowingly place themselves in harms way, then cry wolf.

Again I stress, where are the stats on DV against women. Identify the causes, then address them, but don't just keep throwing money at it.

OK it appears I'd not reached a post limit
Poirot,
"If you surmised I had missed your earlier link, then why didn't you direct me to it" - no surmising until you said this "Show me the figures, RObert...if you can't find this year's figures - and you and Tony Lavis insist that it's usually around 25%, so you must have access to figures from years past - well put them up...show us!"

The first indication that I had that you had missed the earlier detail. Tony and I had in my view been clear enough about the estimates from past years and we were not as far as I'm aware asked to justify them up until that point. Rather a focus on this years figures which we had both mentioned not being able to locate. Tony mentioned extrapolating from past years in his estimate of 20.

"merely to smother discussion on female victims" - why does saying that a gendered approach is badly flawed and that violence needs to be tackled holistically have to be seen as smothering discussion on female victims?

I seriously detest the gendered approach to DV and intend to keep highlighting that it's not the gender issue the industry keeps making out (accepting that there are elements that are gendered).

I'm not sure if I've specifically started a thread on male victims of DV, I know I have started related threads which have been ignored.

On a side issue whats your take on Doogs comments, both in regard to mens responsibilities and what I perceive to be an implied suggestion of a lack a lack of moral agency in women? If you always do good then in my view it's a much easier ride than those who choose good over wrong. I'm of the view that women are fully human sharing a capacity for good and evil (or whatever words you prefer). Doog does not appear to share that view.

Starting at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7006#214581 and following on to at least
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7006#214585

R0bert

More side issues about gender or potty-training or whatever of perps.

Why not solve the problem instead of wallowing in it?

Slam the perps in the can and leave them there for decades to make everyone (except the perps) safe?

Seems a no-brainer.

I think the views around DV are too entrenched for me to get my point across directly.

I'm going to try a parallel.

I'll use a US example because the relevant example in Australia is far to skewed by the small percentage of the population represented by indiginous australians.

The numbers are from the NAACP site (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
- African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites
- Together, African American and Hispanics comprised 58% of all prisoners in 2008, even though African Americans and Hispanics make up approximately one quarter of the US population

There are a range of issues around the incarceration of colored people but on the face of it a case to suggest a problem with crime by colored people.

- Imagine if the only crime authorities talked about was colored crime. If a succession of US government departments and political leaders were to talk about colored crime and how colored people needed to take the lead in stopping it.
- Imagine those same leaders and departments never mentioning crime by whites.
- Imagine police admitting that it's tough to sort out who is at fault when there is a difference between a white person and a colored person so they mostly just deal with the colored one (after all they are often more powerfull physically).
- Imagine whites shouting down any colored person daring to point out both the structural problems that lead to the higher rates of incarceration and that whites commit crimes as well.
- Imagine if a colored person calling to report an assault by a white person stood a high chance of being the one arrested and a significant chance of loosing all that was dearest for daring to report the crime.
- Imagine others posting on public forums a that it's always the colored persons fault, whites just don't do bad stuff without good reason and anyway colored people do better sleeping rough than white folks.

R0bert

RObert,

Okay here is another parallel, using your black US demographic.

If you recall recently, their was a spate of black people being killed by the police for seemingly trivial reasons. This happens with monotonous regularity , but their was a jump in the numbers and also mobile film and photos of police shooting or being heavy handed with black people - all of which led to widespread protests.

If someone had started a thread ostensibly dealing with the subject of police brutality against "black people" - and then certain others joined the thread to point out that it happens (in smaller numbers) to white people also...well then the core issue of the thread is negated.

Of course all the issues are important, however, when something is introduced to the conversation to dilute the focus of the original subject then those taking part in the discussion, instead of looking for solutions, end up squabbling over ratios.

Which is exactly how it's played out here....

It really is quite straight forward.

Identify the problem areas where DV is occurring. While I accept the highly publicized cases, like young Luke Batty, I am assuming there are certain groups where DV is a re occurring problem.

Now if that happens to be certain ethnic groups, then there's little we can do simply because their upbringing sees that their men have total disrespect for women in general, and more fool us for allowing this into our peace loving nation. But as I've already said, that's history.

Also, if another large contributor happens to be indigenous families especially those living in isolated communities, then may I suggest we pour enough wasted taxes into these people and another few billion won't make any difference, esspecially when they can willingly waste their money on grog and the likes.

Then there are those who are dysfunctional families, because if they are another high contributor, then throwing money at them will also be wasted because they are dysfunctional for a reason in most cases.

While i accept DV is a major problem, I say find the main offenders, and if they can't be helped, then help others that want to be helped.

The reality is we no longer have money on tap and at some stage we must decide where funding is being wasted and address such waste.

It may well be that a large portion of DV cases are repeat offenders and are sadly beyond help, especially help that requires even more of our precious taxes.

I'm not a violet person and I despise wasting my taxes on unfixable issue caused by other people.

Genuine cases, yes, lost causes, no way.