suppose you,a, hire another person,b, to kill a third, c.

1. b and c fight, c dies, are you a murderer?
2. b and c fight, b dies, are you a murderer?
3. b and c fight, but only a passer-by, d, dies, are you a murderer?

4. c and d will be angry with you if they survive, are they entitled to revenge?

5. if c killed you, would that be fair?

haven't thought about these things? if you don't hate or fear anyone, if you don't find anyone's existence inconvenient, or you haven't got an assassin's fee, then no reason to think about these things, naturally.

but some australians have filled roles a and b. if you knew which, would you socialize with them? or call the police?

unless they are the police of course, or the judiciary, or the cabinet. then you tip your hat.

People who have prompted me to think about any of this sort of stuff are in the law enforcement fraternity or government. They are exactly the sort of people who should uphold strong principles and command respect accordingly. The fact that they are in these sorts of positions and prove to be scumbags makes them much worse than your average scumbag.

I’m not going to proffer answers to your question Demos, but I will say that lowest life forms I have come across have been one or two people each in these categories: local government, the police force, the judiciary and federal government, in that order.

It is the most interesting thread in months congrats Demos.
And Ludwig too, let me say why I find it so.
I 25 years ago walked into a police station, the night before a drunk has smashed his car and was taken away by police.
His car was stripped by a near neighbor, he returned sober the next morning and I took him to the police to make a statement.
The detective was a grub! he swore he ranted all at me!
From that day life has taught me most police are egos on legs, not interested in justice just the discount suit they wear.
I am truly upset by a drug dealer in my community but would not for a second dob him in.
He may have killed more than once but in truth is it safe to tell a cop?
A GOOD COP IS WORTH MORE THAN ANY COMMUNITY CAN PAY.
But how can you tell who is the good one?
I would play no part in the death of any human who was not threatening the life of another but getting involved has only led to being abused in the past.
A policeman's ego questioned my views on community spirit

I have extremely strong feelings about the antics of some police, and the complete corruption of my confidence in them, to the point where like you Belly I am very hesitant to go anywhere near them, unless I absolutely have to.

This conflicts terribly with my view that normal people should bear the responsibility to play a large role in community policing, by way of reporting suspicious or dangerous activities.

I am not anti-police. In fact, I very strongly wish to support the police in doing the most effective job they can. But a small number of abject ratbags have rotted my respect for the whole constabulary.

This business hasn’t generated thoughts of murder, but it certainly has generated thorough thoughts of what I might be able to do about it…..and basically I have come up blank. It continues to be a major thorn in my side through the years.

Noone else is having a go so I will give a view off the top of my head that you can take with a grain of salt but at least it is responsive.

1. definitely
2. no
3. whether or not you are a murderer you would have some type of criminality
4.if they get revenge they will be punished more harshly than the iniator
5. It wouldn't be legal.
suppose you,a, hire another person,b, to kill a third, c.

tip your hat? If they are organising murder they should be reported to the police and CMC.

This is pretty obscure stuff DEMOS, but as I am sure there must be a reason behind it, I'll play along.

I guess the first thing to point out is that by hiring b to kill c, you are already in the frame for conspiracy to commit murder. Whether or not it actually goes ahead, or anybody gets killed, you get banged up for 25 years.

On with the motley.

1. Not murder, but conspiracy to commit. b gets the murder rap.

2. Not murder, but conspiracy to commit. c gets the murder rap, or gets manslaughter with some kind of self-defence remission.

3. Not murder, but conspiracy to commit. b and/or c get the murder/manslaughter rap, depending on how d was killed.

4. If c and d survive, then one of them must have killed b, and neither would be aware of your existence unless b told them before he died. Even then, they'd probably be best advised to keep quiet about it, as they wouldn't want to draw attention to b's death.

5. If c survives, he has probably killed b, and the same applies - how did he find out about you? b's dying breath, perhaps - "It was.... it was.... a-a-a-a-a-a..."

OK, I've done my bit.

Now, what's your point DEMOS?