ttbn, I don't hate anyone no even Tony Abbott, and now and then I will make a positive post about Abbott as i did just the other day on this thread. its on page 14.

Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 August 2015 6:36:02 PM

I never give any credit to The Mad Monk, Tax Em' Tony or Tony Baloney but I have to give credit where credits due to Tony Abbott for taking the time to visit the remote island of Mer in the Torres Strait and paying his respects at the grave of Eddie Koiki Mabo. Abbott paid tribute to Mabo saying, "He (Eddie Mabo) was a giant of your island and of your people. He was a warrior who fought for justice and now he rests amongst the other warriors of your people. He was your father, your brother, your kinsman and he's our citizen." Well said Tony.

The SMH is very much part of the establishment and reports the news fairly in my opinion. Unlike the rubbish in its Sydney competition Murdoch's NoNews Very Limited publications.

Like so many you fall into the trap, what atrocities we commit are negated by the atrocities the enemy commits. Distorted logic to me.

Dear ttbn,

And I can not say that I will never comment when you commit treason by trying to justify acts that erode the values we have as a nation and denigrate our sense of worth as citizens.

Or if you felt like it we might just dial back the blind jingoism (yes I've been at it too to a degree, it's just that I might be a little more seasoned at it than you), so we could both get back to reasoned debate. I will leave that in your court.

And just for the record while you might not care what is done in our name I do. Primarily because behaving within the rules of international law and more importantly the standards we have set for ourselves is simply the right thing to do.

There is another reason though, incidents like the one under discussion not only served to halt operations and reflect badly on the professionalism of our military, but they undoubtedly would have impacted on our relationship with the local Afghan forces. This directly puts Australian lives at stake as the propaganda value for those seeking to turn soldiers to commit acts against our troops is given real currency.

Why would anyone want to see that danger increase?

Paul1405, "The SMH is very much part of the establishment and reports the news fairly in my opinion"

You will do yourself a mischief being astride that picket fence. You want to leave yourself the 'out' to flog the SMH as 'establishment' when its reports don't suit your politics.

A frank, honest answer would have recognised that while the news sections of the major newspapers are generally reliable and far more credible than the 'independents', the media are more about entertainment.

The ABC's Q&A program stands out as a recent example where the senior management admitted that yes, it is just a show and scripted and manipulated as any other entertainment. It was a pity that some took it all literally. They even opposed Q&A being moved to the News division for some mild applications of the rolled up newspaper across the nose when its unpublicised informal editorial policy became too obvious.

All are in a rush to the bottom as tabloids and yes, they do spin one way or the other to sell to their audience. It is amusing how many people want their world view and opinion confirmed, only reading what they already 'know'(sic).

The print media, radio and TV too, foolishly believed that the internet would not affect the monopoly (in effect) that they enjoyed for years because Australian population is spread among coastal capitals and once a paper was established it was impossible for any other to break in.

'The Australian' and some other newspapers, some weeklies or monthlies, offered an alternate and sometimes a deeper, more balanced view. That was obviously necessary for sales.

Paul,

Yes? After you referred to Abbott as a "Mad Monk", "Tax Em Tony" and "Tony Baloney". I'm sure you really love the man. Oh, and you also called him a warmonger, even though he has mongered no wars. Incidentally, I hold no torch for Abbott, as I 've said many times. I think he is weak (pink) and I object to his poncing around around with minorities instead of running the country. I also respect your opinion of SMH, but that opinion is being held by fewer and fewer people as sales plunge. And, no, I do not justify atrocity with atrocity. My beef with you "logic" is that you damn only your own side.

Steeleredux,

You present as a very strange fellow. The "treason" is all with you, if you mean what you
say. In your last post, you referred to me as a "patriot", while you have bashed Australia ever since you graced us with your prescence.

I'm not sure why you think you are "seasoned". With no intent to put you down, I have to say that your views seem to come from immaturity and inexperience. If you feel guilty about what is "done in (your) name", you alone will have to deal with that feeling; but, do you really think that Australia and the incumbent goverment would be doing anything in the name of a person with your views? You will, I think, have to wait for a socialist government to satisfy you, such is the nature of democracy.

Dear ttbn,

I have a habit of mimicking the tone used by others. If you want to go jingoistic them I'm happy to play in that pigpen too. If you want to bandy around terms like un-Australian then I'm happy to throw a charge of treason your way.

Do I think it is edifying or conducive to solid debate? Of course not. Is it mature? Well it's about as mature as talking about mincing up Taliban bodies and feeding them to the dogs. But if that is the arena you want for the discussion I'm sadly not above it.

Now how about you showing me where I have bashed Australia in this thread. Are you really contending that questioning the despoiling of bodies is bashing Australia?

Or is it a case of me 'bashing' your version of Australia, the one you would like us to become? One where any questioning of the actions of our military is regarded as un-Australian? There are plenty of counties whose people do just that, one of them across the Pacific, thankfully we are not there yet.

ttbn,

"...Oh, and you also called him a warmonger, even though he has mongered no wars..."

Not for the want of trying.

The latest example being of him badgering Obama to be allowed to bomb Syria.

A few months back he embarrassed a group of visiting US military men at a dinner with talk of wanting to take Oz forces unilaterally into Iraq.

Then there was his Ukraine sabre rattling.

It's easy to laugh his fantasies off - as most people with any heft have done up till now. Finally the US has acceded.

'According to sources, while President Obama did raise the subject of Syria, the PM basically pushed for an invitation to join in. So this was less a formal rallying of an ally and more of a "um, sure, you can come if you want, I guess…"'

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/view-from-the-street/view-from-the-street-tony-abbott-invites-himself-to-uss-syriabombing-party-20150826-gj8es5.html#ixzz3jzrIcJwi

I mean really...a try hard with a Churchill fixation is the last thing our country needs.

Add that to his fetish for hanging out with uniformed men - and we note he's wasted $10 million dollars dressing up our customs officers in new military style uniforms - militarising anything he can get his hands on, in fact...it's pathetic.

One could dismiss him as a Walter Mitty character, if he wasn't in such an infuential position.

As it stands, he's a dangerous twerp with a penchant for all things warlike.

Remember the title of his book?

"Battlelines"....