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The Forum > General Discussion > Culling Feral Cats

Culling Feral Cats

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Is killing cats the answer or are there other solutions to the problem?

"The Australian government has announced plans to cull up to 2 million feral cats by 2020 in a bid to preserve dozens of native species that authorities claim face extinction because of the cats' predatory behavior.

Speaking to a national radio station, Gregory Andrews, the country's first threatened-species Commissioner, said Australian Environment Minister Greg Hunt "is declaring war on feral cats, and he's asked me to take charge of that programme."

Hunt unveiled the five-year plan at a Melbourne zoo on Thursday, vowing to protect Australia's native mammal and bird populations.

"We are drawing a line in the sand today which says, 'On our watch, in our time, no more species extinction,'" Hunt said...."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australias-war-on-cats-government-plans-to-cull-2-million-by-2020-10398555.html
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 8:30:32 AM
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Dear Is Mise,

From the little reading that I've done on the subject
I've learned that: -

In Australia, feral animals typically have few natural
predators or fatal diseases and some have high reproductive rates.
As a result their populations have not naturally diminished and
they can multiply rapidly if conditions are favourable.

Feral cats and foxes hunt and kill native birds, mammals, reptiles,
and insects. Their behaviour does threaten the survival of
many threatened species.

Therefore it does make sense to have some sort of a model
code of practice and standard operation procedures for the
humane capture, handling, or destruction of feral animals
in Australia.

However, I would hope and trust that
we do assess the relative humanness of
the proposed pest control methods currently
under discussion by the government.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 1:58:01 PM
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Politicians.

It is better than talking about the reef (GBR).

General comment
Pest reduction needs to be broad-based. Reducing cats will contribute to more rabbits for example. What about introduced Indian Mynah etc.

Take away the ridiculous registration of air guns and squirrel rifles, ie .177 (4.5mm) and .22 air-rifles, and rimfire. You could say the same for single and double barrel shotguns.

Put a small bounty on some ferals if needed, for example, Indian Mynahs.

Australia could put a lot of pressure on some ferals, eg rabbits, foxes and cats, simply by allowing hunting. Most of those hundreds of grey nomads would doubtless like some bunny for the pot and they can knock over foxes and cats through opportunity.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 4:05:42 PM
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Given all the past big-man talk about culling from politicians- cane toads, donkeys, camels, wild cattle, brumbies, African daisy, pricky pear, lantana, salvation jane, wild pigs, wild goats, rabbits etc, I don't think the cats have much to worry about.

Anyway, the way Abbott is allowing land to be sold off to foreign governments, the Chinese and their soon-to-be-imported cheap labour should have no trouble getting rid of pests. By putting a daily quota of fly bodies on every inhabitant in China, they got rid of flys in a very short time.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 6:14:46 PM
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They got rid of flies, too.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 6:16:53 PM
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Hi Foxy, can you please explain what you mean by this statement: "However, I would hope and trust that we do assess the relative humanness of the proposed pest control methods currently
under discussion by the government."

I'm confused how you wish apply 'humanness' to feral animals you are planning to kill off. There's no nice way to kill animals in the wild.
Posted by ConservativeHippie, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 6:43:27 PM
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A large number of feral cats are either domestic cats gone wild, or their offspring.

One solution is to bring in mandatory cat registration, just like dogs with higher rates fir complete cats. Then, the registered cat MUST wear an ID collar and have a chip then, if they get caught roaming away from their register address the owner cops a fine. If they don't have their collar the owner gets a heavier fine and, if they are not reg then they get put down.

It's pointless culling feral cats unless we stop Dom cats from roaming freely as they so often do.

While I'm not a cat hater,But our native wildlife deserves the right to breed and live without fear of being killed by a domesticated roaming cat.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 7:09:44 PM
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Rehctub is right in suggesting we try to ensure domestic cats aren't breeding, but very strong fines would need to be applied if owners were found to be in possession of non-registered, non-neutered cats.

I would not like to see any change in our firearm laws, as we don't want any non-professional shooters roaming the countryside killing everything in sight.
In order to humanely kill any feral cats, we would need to use shooters who can kill swiftly and cleanly, not idiots playing cops and robbers.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 7:32:22 PM
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Now it is 'cops and robbers'. Heh, heh.

The site's resident hoplophobe, Suseonline, was going off again. She has seen too many Hollywood movies and always experiences difficulty separating fiction from reality.

There, there Dear, some boys knocking off Indian Mynahs with Daisy air rifles isn't exactly your Elliott Ness and the Untouchables. Cheap and efficient too. Or Grey Nomads taking safe, chemical free game for the table, as is our heritage and that includes your despised 'white' men as well as indigenous.

It is also a whole lot safer than the anal sex you are obsessed with and prosletyse.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 8:53:54 PM
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Lol OTB!
You are OLO's resident gun nut and misogynist , so we complement each other don't we?

Now you are advocating sending boys and old men racing around the countryside killing feral cats?
Oh gee, I wonder why no one else thought of that?
Good plan....
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 23 July 2015 12:45:00 AM
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Come on Suse. You lot paid me to learn how to shoot big cannons at things, with considerable accuracy. Surely you could trust me to shoot a few cats or birds, with a .22 pea shooter.

Actually in my poor youth, we ate a lot of rabbit I supplied to the pot, but they were dug out of warrens with a mattock, we couldn't afford ammunition, & didn't like holes in our food.

I don't know who these professional shooters you are on about are. In my experience, the ones they used in the Brucellosis cull in the north, were about half as good as the kids in our school cadet corps.

On that vane, how about the army? Instead of shooting pretend bullets at pretend enemy up north in their exercises, we could issue them with pea shooters, & let them get some real marksmanship training.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 23 July 2015 2:17:01 AM
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Good Idea Hasbeen.
I would think the army soldiers could do a good job at culling the cats, and get in shooting practice as well.
I have no doubt you would be good at that too, but I still wouldn't like to see our gun laws relaxed just to kill a few feral cats.
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 23 July 2015 10:41:29 AM
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Suseonline,

As a hoplophobe you are predictably ignorant about firearms risks and treatments, and how the available regulations are sops to hysterics and vote buyers - not efficient, robust controls. However, you don't know much about small pest control either.

Not surprising for a desk-bound, urban leftist 'expert'. But then all leftists are could not live outside of the iron lung of a city, where their every need is supplied by the State.

Yes, the elderly and youth with free time could do a lot to put pressure on small pests in particular while the rest of us are (hopefully) engaged at work and producing some product or service of value that way.

As a hoplophobe you do not know that the shooting sports and recreational hunting are not discriminatory in any way. The whole of society excepting for criminals and persons of dubious character are represented in the many thousands of good citizens who are licensed firearms owners.

One could wonder however about the character, dubious connections (eg that overseas (US) organisation that interferes in the domestic politics of other countries and is alleged to be doing that in Australia) and possible criminal past of the secret squirrel 'anti-gun' nuts. Unlike the respectable citizens they sledge, the 'gun control' freaks have no police certification that shows that they are of good character and good intent and many are serial protesters and activists.

Now, to return to that earlier point, it would be much healthier for youth to be in the open air helping to control Indian Mynahs with a pellet gun than risking diabetes from being trapped in front of a keyboard, where they are also being assailed by persons such as yourself, Suseonline, with your avid promotion of anal sex. Mothers of youth, especially girls who are being demanded to service men, some bisexual with anal sex and other nasties, are not thanking you.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 23 July 2015 11:27:20 AM
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I killed a feral cat yesterday, also a couple of foxes,
used a .220 Swift fitted with a 12 power scope.
Ammo was home loaded to around 3,500 feet/second and with a muzzle energy of some 1,700 foot pounds.

I took the shot at 250 yards (according to the scope's range indicator) and the moggie's head exploded, very humane kill.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 23 July 2015 11:47:53 AM
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Is Mise,

Well done, that will be more lambs that survive come Spring.

General Comment
On small lots and even in backyards, youth and retired with time on their hands and a cheap air rifle, or even air pistols, could put a lot of pressure on the many foxes that now take advantage of urban living, as well as on the rats of the air, the Indian Mynahs that are rapidly displacing other birds. That is to take just a couple of examples. They can use pellets, air driven and under 1000fps, quite enough at the short ranges.

In excess of 90% of Aussies are urban and while most are well disposed to putting in some effort themselves, many lack the know-how, confidence and opportunities to contribute to reducing the feral pests problem and the proliferation of weeds.

Volunteering to remove feral pest and weed alike should be promoted and training provided free of charge.

It is only through a combination of strategies that the plant and animal (add disease and parasite!) can be controlled.

It is outrageous that a few serial activist pests skulking behind 'gun control', allegedly with money and other support from a highly suspicious overseas source that goes to extreme lengths to avoid disclosure, should regularly be given podiums by the ABC and without any opposing view from the legitimate, representative Australian sources available to balance. More of that informal editorial policy of the ABC at work, no doubt. That sucks, ABC!
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 23 July 2015 12:38:07 PM
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Is Mise,

.220 Swift. Now , there's a classic calibre. Sounds like a good shot. Foolishly, I handed in my last firearm about 20 years ago. City bound, and increasingly draconian gun laws. Now, I would have as much hope of getting another firearm in SA as I would have getting a dirty bomb over the counter. Legally, that is. Of course it's easy if you are a bikie or a criminal: you can do as you please, but it's us ordinary plebs who need to be kept under control.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 23 July 2015 1:14:33 PM
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This red herring is raised periodically by cat haters who do not give a damn for the results which would be catastrophic.
If all the feral cats could indeed be removed, the explosion of rabbits would be a disaster to the people supposedly most concerned, the farmers.
Let us not go to the ridicule of rabbit proof fences as an answer.
If these people are so concerned by the wholesale killing of native wildlife then maybe it would be better to ban all road traffic after dark?
A simple registration of cats that have been proved to be neutered and chipped would suffice not some draconian government department with a "commissar" to run it.
Posted by Robert LePage, Thursday, 23 July 2015 4:07:41 PM
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Quite right Robert LePage.
It seems to me it is always the redneck crowd supporting the gun lobby that appear to be the most 'concerned' for the feral cat problem.

Apparently, according to them, we would need to relax our strict gun laws to kill all these cats rampaging around our bush.

Of course, there is no need for that, if we have trigger happy blokes like Is Mise with legal guns already out there 'exploding' cat's heads.
Charming.
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 23 July 2015 7:45:19 PM
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Suse,

Yes "charming", but not in the sense of 'lucky', the shot was deliberate, calculated and applied with precision and with the predicted outcome.

A head shot, with a projectile that has sufficient energy to instantly disintegrates the cat's brain is the most humane way of killing them.
They are not even alarmed by the report of the rifle as the bullet is travelling at greater than the speed of sound, they are already dead before the sound reaches them.

Feral cats are a problem and a continuing one; what's your solution, Suse?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 24 July 2015 8:56:49 AM
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Feral cats are a problem and a continuing one; what's your solution,
by Is Mise,

The easiest answer is to hunt and kill the people who are responsible for letting them go because they will not look after their animals or spend money on them but that would be considered "not on".
Posted by Robert LePage, Friday, 24 July 2015 9:06:25 AM
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Robert,

The people that let the original cats go wild are long dead so your 'human' solution won't work.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 24 July 2015 9:10:16 AM
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Closed off Crown land, State and national parks, doesn't work. That has been made abundantly clear by the proliferation of pest animals and plants in those areas and notwithstanding the money poured into park bureaucrats and well-paid but not very successful contractors.

There will likely never be a complete eradication of some pests. 'Blitzes', concerted efforts where pest numbers skyrocket and fauna and flora at immediate risk, are useful in very narrow circumstances and only where supported by other strategies.

As has been proved often enough for it to be beyond dispute, the solution is continuous control, continuous pressure, through a multiplicity of strategies.

Is Mise is right, culling by firearm is one of the proved means. However it is far too expensive and stop-go where paid contractors or staff are used. Contractors use helicopter shooting to make it worthwhile, otherwise the travel by land alone would incur too much cost and too little cost/benefit. Small targets and helicopters? Maybe not!

Recreational hunters do have a recognised role in providing free, continuous control pressure on harmful exotics, with the bonus that they report other developing problems such as parasites and diseases, as well as exotic weeds taking hold. Examples of 'recreational' hunters include farmers who would be better off doing more productive things, groups arranged with clubs and associations, or other licensed individuals.

The army has not been found to be useful, a damned nuisance in fact, in the past.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 24 July 2015 11:11:16 AM
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When we moved into our new Estate 3 years ago we were the third house then surrounded by wrens, since then families have brought in their pets including cats roaming free. Today we do not see even one wren and we back on to bush and farmland. Household cats must be contained within the home. When I lived on the farm our neighbours built a large wired cattery their cats were de-sexed and the cats had lots of climbing and exploring activity areas. Register all breeders of cats and all cats as pets be de-sexed.

I have seen cats in the wild on the north coast NSW as big as small panthers. The thing with cats they climb trees as well as dig for food.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 24 July 2015 11:30:23 AM
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They are beautiful animals and no responsible person would ever want to encourage hatred.

As pets, companion and therapy animals they are superb. Not bad around a food storage facility either.

They just need to be neutered. Government and voluntary organisations could help by offering a free service to the financially strapped. Not much authorities can do about the irresponsible Bogans who refuse to neuter their cats and dogs though.

Farms near cities and metro refuse dumps see more cats.

We always appreciated the reliable fellows who sought permission to cull the game animals and put some pesticide free meat on the table for their families, who also knocked off the foxes and other vermin through opportunity shots. They were easy to brief and saved us from far bigger losses over the years.

There were the occasional nuisances about, but almost invariably they would be the drunken, firearms-unlicensed louts from the country town and known by police of course.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 24 July 2015 12:16:38 PM
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I agree with you SUSEONLINE...

HASBEEN'S suggestion of allowing the Army to get some realistic moving target acquisition and shooting, sounds most laudable I believe ?

For starters they might choose to use the venerable M242 'Chain Gun' in 7.62 or alternatively the old reliable M60 in 7.62 ? The mind boggles at the possibilities ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 24 July 2015 1:01:33 PM
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o sung wu,

The cats that need to be shot are difficult enough for farmers and hunters who are familiar with their habits and know the lay of the land.

We knew our properties and we had Match shots, rifle and shotgun, but feral cats were usually shot as targets of opportunity. Unless the poor things had recently been dropped from some Bogan's car, where they always sought humans and made that need obvious. The feral cat is scattered, always cautious and not an animal you can lay in wait for, or stalk.

The army assault rifles, kit and tactics are the exact opposite of what is practical and successful.

I will give you the heads-up, this is what is needed to complement other methods such as routine neutering of pet animals, feral and stray trapping and (judicious) baiting in selected zones,

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/fox-whistler-abe-andrews-is-more-cunning-than-a-fox/story-fnkfnspy-1227326856436
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 24 July 2015 1:30:37 PM
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I hear that Hanson-Young, Brigit Bardot et al want to get all the cat together & ask them not to eat Native Animals & agree to be neutered, free of charge of course.

Isn't that nice.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 24 July 2015 2:56:03 PM
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It would be a great start if people were to be accountable for their cat, with a birth certificate and a death certificate. And the same with dogs. It is far to easy to have pets, which become disposable property when on holidays.

1000 $ bond to have a pet, redeemed at death of pet.
Posted by doog, Friday, 24 July 2015 3:10:00 PM
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Yes, we have had both cats and dogs in our home for years.
At present we have 2 dogs and a cat, all registered and neutered.

Our cat has a lovely covered cat run, down the side of our house.
We need stricter cat laws so cats that are allowed to roam are a thing of the past..
Posted by Suseonline, Friday, 24 July 2015 3:40:00 PM
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'afternoon to you ONTHEBEACH...

I feel I owe you an apology with my previous contribution ? I was being somewhat contemptuous with my inappropriate remark ? Trying to be amusing I suppose and failing miserably too, I'm sorry.

All animals feral or otherwise need to be dealt with in an effective but humane manner, whatever the circumstances are. Nevertheless many 'Cocky's' are at their wit's end, trying to make their rural properties flourish against sustained droughts, falling export demand, government over-regulation, merciless Banks wanting to foreclose on their delinquent loans, and yes trying to eradicate feral infestations of one sort or another ?

Therefore they have my profound sympathy, in all soul destroying negatives they must confront on a daily basis. By far these farmers and their families are owed so much, by the rest of us, for without them we'd all bloody well starve ! Therefore there's absolutely no room for smart arse's like me I'm afraid !

To further compound my poor attempt at humour ONTHEBEACH, I've no solution whatsoever, as to how best to control these infestation of feline vermin ? I wonder if the CSIRO can help ?

Didn't they assist in ridding all the feral cats and other vermin, left by the old-time Whalers in the late 1800's, from Australia's sub-artic, Macquarie Island ? Surely they'd have the necessary wherewithal, to at least bait (a cruel solution) or capture these feral pests, I would've thought ? I really don't know ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 24 July 2015 4:18:15 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

You've hit the nail on the head with
CSIRO.

The following website explains:

http://www.wildliferesearchmanagement.com.au/Fact%20sheet_feral%20cats.pdf
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 24 July 2015 4:32:22 PM
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Hi DOOG...

That's not a bad idea my friend, a sort of 'bond arrangement' paid by the owner of a feline or canine, were there's paper trail of sorts ?
We have two dogs and wouldn't be without them, but they're both constrained by our fences and correctly micro chipped, as well as being appropriately registered etc. Both have had 'operations' and despite their best endeavours and everlasting chagrin, can't produce progeny ? That said, our family couldn't imagine not having them, they're an constitutive part of the family.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 24 July 2015 4:38:09 PM
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o sung wu,

Sorry I missed the humour. All the best.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 24 July 2015 4:58:32 PM
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Foxy,

Interesting link re. the CSIRO; strange that they don't mention the means of eradication on the islands and in fenced areas.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 24 July 2015 11:20:28 PM
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So no one cme up with a solution other than killing them; I sort of hoped that someone would have brought up the idea of catch/de-sex/release but that must have gone out of favour.

Seems as if hunting them with a high powered rifle is the only option.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 1 August 2015 10:45:22 AM
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I still have not seen an answer to my post below as to the effects if indeed it was possible to eliminate all cats. Something I doubt would be possible.
Mainly the cat or should I say animal haters are the ones that promote blasting them with gunfire and of course poisoning them.
I suspect that these people are the sort who condone killing virtually captive lions and other scarce animals so they can hang their heads on a wall.

*This red herring is raised periodically by cat haters who do not give a damn for the results which would be catastrophic.
If all the feral cats could indeed be removed, the explosion of rabbits would be a disaster to the people supposedly most concerned, the farmers.*
Posted by Robert LePage, Saturday, 1 August 2015 1:38:19 PM
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The only good cat is a dead cat. Good books about Cats, "101 uses for a dead cat. Vols 1 & 2."

What do cats, rabbits, feral goats, feral pigs & moslems have in common? I leave that one up to you. ;-)

RLeP: I suspect that these people are the sort who condone killing virtually captive lions and other scarce animals so they can hang their heads on a wall.

Always someone takes it too far. Their favourite password, 1D0t.

RLeP: the explosion of rabbits would be a disaster to the people supposedly most concerned, the farmers.

Not to the Akubra Hat industry. They wouldn't have to source their Rabbit fur from Europe. & Then, we could all go out & shoot rabbits & make a quid. Go the Rabbitos! ;-)
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 1 August 2015 3:28:09 PM
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