o sung wu, I never claimed I did know the number of people drowning while trying to reach Australia since the Libs got in. I merely highlighted the dubiousness of your claim that it was less than under Labor.

There is nothing careless about my statement that I favour human rights over States rights. It doesn't in any way imply that "we don't have any 'humans' in Australia" and there's no way a reasonable person could infer that unmitigated nonsense from my words – especially as I gave the example of the American Civil War. Unless you're suggesting there were no humans in the confederate states, in which case I don't think anyone is likely to take anything you say seriously.

What I was actually implying is that Australia is treating refugees as if they're not human. And that doing so is morally wrong. Refugees are not a threat to the rights of Australians. And we're certainly not according any *legitimate, *bona fide refugee everything we're humanly capable of giving them - and nor should we. But what we should give them (but currently aren't) is a fair go.

You, and many of the politicians, assume without evidence that most asylum seekers are criminals. But the number of genuine refugees out there is so high that this is extremely unlikely. Where there are criminals they should be dealt with, and if there's any doubt at all in their refugee status, it should be reviewed if they commit a crime in Australia. But it's persecution, not justice, that most people are fleeing.

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runner, only the very gullible could possibly exchange the PM who kept us out of recession during the GFC to the PM who stripped the rights of workers but taxed them more.

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Yuyutsu, you seem to believe having people here with no legal status is a good thing. Why? Should't the protection of the law extend to everyone?

In terms of stopping the boats, I think this is a brilliant idea.

If every boat's crew, over the next month or so, was paid to turn around and go back, and if you were a desperate refugee, would you trust them ever again ?

If all they do is to just take your money, take you out to sea, take Australian money and bring you back to Indonesia ?

This could spell the end of the entire trade. Perhaps the Europeans could try something similar in the Mediterranean.

Not much chop for the poor refugees, but a stroke of evil genius.

Joe

AIDAN my friend, your use of the word evidence is somewhat cockeyed, considering my previous vocation ? Furthermore I made no reference apropos those who drowned, none whatsoever. My knowledge of criminality associated with some of these refugees who've tricked their way into this country I would respectfully assert is well superior to yours ! Nothing, I repeat nothing you could say, would persuade me to review my assessment of these people. Accordingly I bid you a good night.

I agree, another brilliant idea along with the orange lifeboats.

If labor had the brains and the nuts to do it we would not be supporting 50,000 plus welfare for lifers, and a large number of people would not have become victims of crimes due to there incompetence.

It' got my vote. Thumbs up.

o sung wu,

It appears that your rebuttal to Adrian's response largely consists of the, "Trust me. I was a copper. I'd know." approach without actually providing much in the way of evidence or reasoned argument.

<<My knowledge of criminality associated with some of these refugees who've tricked their way into this country I would respectfully assert is well superior to yours !>>

Well, as a criminologist, who has worked closely with police, I'm aware of the fact that police often don't record race; let alone refugee status. So how is it that you came to know about the criminality of asylum seekers? I'm not for a second suggesting that it's impossible. The more I learn, the more I doubt how much I know (kind of like the Dunning-Kruger effect in reverse, I suppose). I'm just not aware of a method by which you could have come to know what you claim to know. So if you could let me in on it, I'm sure it would be valuable to any future research that I do.

<<Nothing, I repeat nothing you could say, would persuade me to review my assessment of these people. Accordingly I bid you a good night.>>

And it's likely that therein lies the problem with your entire worldview (http://www.godofevolution.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Ham-Nye-debate-in-a-nutshell-via-exploring-our-matrix.jpg).

Yep loudmouth, you can bet the Europeans have a fact finding team over here right now, trying to learn how we do it.

Anyone who thinks voters will be turned off by anything the government does to stop these gate crashers from getting to Oz is a dill.