Foxy,

I know you too well to think that you are so dim as to believe that line. As soon as any news gets out via Indonesia or elsewhere it is in the papers, and unless Australia has silenced every single reporter in Aus and Indonesia, there have been no drownings.

And if the PM has said no laws have been broken, why does he have to follow labor's failed policy of megaphone diplomacy on the details?

P,

You are the one trying to claim that the payment to smugglers is illegal, but condone it all be it in different circumstances. Secondly you have no certainty that money actually changed hands, or if it did what it was for. If the ABC is right and the money was paid by intelligence agents the extraction of intelligence to disrupt further attempts is more than likely.

Secondly, if reports were correct, the boat was in a bad way, and intervention was necessary to save lives, the return trips are done from outside the Ind territorial waters with enough fuel for the 20km journey to Ind but not the 300km trip to Xmas Island.

No one drowned as probably would have happened if the boat had not been intercepted.

Secondly in 18 months only one boat's passengers have made it to Aus with maybe 20 attempting the journey, compared to about 20 a month 2yrs ago. The boats have all but stopped and your playing with semantics is not going to change it.

SM,

"You are the one trying to claim that the payment to smugglers is illegal, but condone it all be it in different circumstances...."

I haven't condoned anything....

Paying for intelligence is common practice - intercepting smugglers on the high seas and/or in Australian waters and showering them with wads of American dollars is not.

"No one drowned as probably would have happened if the boat had not been intercepted."

They only reason it was intercepted was to send it packing with a minimum of fuel - seemingly giving it the best chance of coming to grief.

These are the leaky sub-standard boats that the govt is now using:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/vietnamese-boats-unseaworthy-government-sources-say-20150311-1411bi.html

"The fleet of brightly coloured wooden Vietnamese fishing boats that the Australian government will use to turn back asylum seekers are unseaworthy and ethically wrong to use, marine sources in Darwin say.

A government official and a local fisher say they were shocked at the building standards of the 20-metre green, blue and red fishing boats that will replace the garish orange lifeboats that were deemed "unsinkable".

"The first boat the shipyard launched sunk, and it had to be retrieved with a crane," the government worker said.

"The materials are a really poor quality as well as the craftsmanship. They are completely unsafe and not a passenger boat."

Hardly any fuel and a crap boat.

We have no idea of what's been going on up there or how many people have come to grief - or anything else, for that matter.

If I believed any of you really cared about the drownings I would give you some kudos...but it's merely a convenient catch cry for you to bleat while backing all the other cruelties inflicted under our border policies.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You ask - why does the
Abbott-led Coalition - have to follow
Labor's "megaphone" diplomacy? That's
being somewhat hypocritic.
Who was it who chased Labor at every turn
asking for boat numbers?

But back to your question -

I wasn't aware that "megaphone" diplomacy
was what was being asked of Mr Abbott and his team.
Merely accountability, explanations, and answers on a
potentially suspect criminal act. After-all
if they broke the law in our name - and it is in our
name -
we as voters as entitled to know.

Under
our system (Thanks to the Magna Carta),
no-one is above the law. And that is how it should
be. This is not a matter of national security.
And suggesting that it is - is merely a political
tactic and a diversion.

Monstoring Labor and insisting on answers to
questions on boat people worked a treat for
Mr Abbott and the Coalition. Now it appears that it
has created a straitjacket for them in having to
confront those issues in government.

I guess that the take-out from the Gillard era was
that undermining trust was the political gold that
could tear down a government. But in honing
negativity to a fine art in opposition undermines
public confidence in the institutions of government and
creates a monster that now threatens to consume
them in power.

There's a German Proverb that states:

"You can't control the wind, but you can adjust
the sails."

And that is precisely what Mr Abbott needs to do -
and do quickly.

Hi there YUYUTSU...

Thank you for giving my ridiculous question a go ? Your thoughts are worthy of consideration, however they'd never stand up to anything but a cursory examination in this country unfortunately. Where there's a compulsory requirement for everyone to first genuflect, and obediently recognise, everything and anything, the all powerful United Nations require us to think and do ? Failure to do so, may result in them becoming very cross with us, to such a point they may never consent to speak with us again ! Your passive welcome, bereft of any assistance, is indeed meritorious to be sure ! In fact it's a brilliant idea, Thank you YUYUTSU.

Page 1 this thread.

Poirot "This is Abbotts best debacle yet"

Paul "the ducking and weaving by Abbott is a dead set give away that the story is true"

Foxy "so its a ripe old mess" "What a stuff up - all around"

These are some comments when the usual suspects thought they had Abbott with a smoking gun and jumped right in for the kill.

Now egg on faces all around. How keen they are to get the goods on Abbott. Most amusing!

At least the Labor party had the sense to shut up when they realized that some juicy info could be leaked about Labor when in office. Not a word since, and they can thank Julie Bishop for alerting them.

One would think they would learn from other occasions. Recall allegations of Navy torture of asylum seekers by hands on hot engines, shown to be lies and a spying scandal which was shown to occur when Labor was in office.

They should just admit that the 'illegals' issue is lost for them and that the LNP did what Labor said was impossible in stopping the boats. This matter alone will get the LNP re-elected.

"If the boats are "stopped, how come we're paying people to take them back? How come we're providing boats to send people back? How come we're holding people on ships before returning them?

I mean, it's a simple question....all these boats that are apparently "stopped"..ie. "aren't there" - apparently "are there"...ie. are not "stopped"?"

Poirot

Playing word games again Poirot? The boats have been stopped from landing in Australia. The Government has never claimed they have (or could) stop the boats from departing Indonesia.

Is the boat and crew in question the boat that was heading for New Zealand, the one the NZ Gov't request help with? If so, is it possible the New Zealand government made the pay off, if a pay off actually happened?