Gday, this is my first post. Please bear with me.
About 8 yrs ago I was on the dole, Custody despute 5 yrs I used legal aid as I couldnt afford it. Case is over. 2.5 yrs ago got a job about $24hr. (was saving $50 per fortnight, saved 6 grand in 5 years)
My delema.
I live in dept of housing. If I work 4hrs a day 5 days a week my rent goes to market value. As this is a part time job i am still on the dole. Have a disabled kid so my missus is on the pension to look after him. 4hrs a day for 5, I get nothing from the dole. and she gets $10 per fortnight, if i do 2hrs per day i get 120 from the dole and she gets about 300. And the rent drematically dropps. Its mad. Savings are all gone
I despise my job. And the house is a dump. How on earth am i supposed to get ahead

Sadly you are caught in a no win situation, and perhaps the best way out of it is to get elected to Parliament, especially as a senator.

There is a paradox, that happens when you are on welfare and begin earning a wage, where the increase in income created by working is more than off set by the loss of benefits.

So you earn a dollar, but loose a dollar fifty in government assistance, that proves to be a real disincentive to work and to try and get ahead.

'morning seanw,

Truly sorry to hear of your situation and in particular about your disabled child.

If you are unable to get full time work you need to consider several part time jobs. Take as many as you can to make up the hours and pay rates you need to get ahead. This way you can selectively upgrade to better rates as or if they become available and adjust your hours accordingly.

This will also boost your self esteem which appears to have taken a battering.

I confess to being a little skeptical at the circumstances you describe, but I'm sure that once you are able to make up part time or casual work to about 50 hours a week you will be well on the road to financial independence.

Yep, I agree with spindoc.

The way to get ahead is to maximise your earned income, just like most of us do.

Trying to adjust your work & income to maximise your taxpayer handout is just bludging on those who do work 40 or perhaps 60 hours a week, & is immoral to say the least.

Granted you are encouraged to think the way you do by the welfare lobby, & the mess which is the way welfare is calculated, but no one has a right to expect to get ahead while holding their hand out for other peoples hard earned.

You have absolutely no right to "get ahead" on the back of people who work a lot longer hours than you do.

Hi seanw and welcome to the forum,

I understand your plight, I see it all the time. The poverty trap of the working poor. People living as you do, genuine people who through no fault of their own have not been dealt the best hand in life. Sympathy is cold comfort, you have not mentioned your age bracket or location. The options are to move to another location which offers better prospects, but that is not always possible with family commitments and the like, age etc.

It is so easy for some to stigmatize all "housos" as lazy good for nothings. and there is a proportion of people like that, no one can deny it. There is also a goodly number of genuine people who need societies help. Somehow we need to move from the simple handout mentality which results in the abandonment of people, to a holistic approach which sees people who genuinely want to get ahead, succeed.

Dear Sean.

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation.

You obviously need a clear incentive to drop benefits
and go back to work.

"People are better off on benefits than working," is
something we often hear. Many people think this is
a myth however in your case from what you've described
there does seem to be a major problem at the core of
our system.

Spindoc and Hasbeen have given you some good advice
and I'm sure others will come up with more.

All I can add is - you probably do need to get several
jobs (unless your wife can somehow manage to work also -
even perhaps part-time).
It's not going to be easy - that's for sure - but it
sounds like you're ready for a change anyway. Working
will help towards your self esteem and self worth -
and who knows it may lead to bigger and better things.
It may even lead to your considering - applying for an
apprenticeship and
studying at night to get better-skilled
and better paid jobs.

I wish you all the best and hope that things will work
out for you and your family.

seanw,

It does no good to wallow in self-pity when you should be counting your blessings - such as that subsided roof over your head. What about Medicare? Those are not shabby benefits. Talk with migrants from other countries, developed ones too and find out that you are not so badly off at all. Think about it.

Very few people are born with a platinum spoon their their mouth. All but the few have to put in some very hard yards - not just to be able to support themselves first off, but for the whole of their lives.

Apart from finding more work as some have suggested, what other options do you have to ease your budget such as growing a few veggies and fruit?

As for you dumping on your 'dump' of a Housing Commission house, give us a break!

Put in the effort and get some pride out of it. I meet people in their eighties with a daily struggle against cruel disorders like rheumatoid arthritis who are fiercely independent. Despite bugger all income and no support from others they take pride in doing what they can. This morning before the sun was up I was helping an old guy by re-sorting his garden to make it easier for him. He needs room between beds and higher beds for his wheelchair. While I was loading the truck he was out of his wheelchair on his hands and knees pulling stuff across the ground to help. Late today I am planning to find that cheap seed site on the Net because he has been reading about Kale to add to his Silver Beet.

You have had your moment of self-pity and fair enough too I guess. Now you need to do something for yourself and your family, which again was your choice.

Foxy,
I do work and it's still not worth putting in the extra effort, with two school age kids and a single income we do better if I work 20 hours a week and try to earn less than 40 a year, pay no tax and rely on welfare. We've done the maths,to get "ahead" I'd have to earn about 120 a year and put in 50-60 hours on the tools, either that or my wife would have to work full time.
The other issue is that the government wants us to move from welfare to work but my reply to that is "Where are the jobs?", they talk of mutual responsibility but it's all on us, the worker. Hey Mr Hockey, provide me with stable full time work and a 70k salary and I'll sign up to your vision, if the government isn't going to employ me I'll do things my way, at least being a sole trader I can't lose the job I have and end up with literally nothing.

Dear Jay,

Thank You for sharing your circumstances.
I'm in no position to judge you or any one else.
I've never been on the dole - and have worked my
entire life taking whatever jobs were available
to keep my family afloat. That was the way I was
raised - to work hard and not expect anything
from anyone. To persevere and not give up.
It has not been easy - but well worth the effort.
I've passed the same ethos onto my children -
an ethos that I got from my parents.

Dear seanw,

I'm sorry to hear about your circumstances.

Don't let anyone imply you are not paying tax. The GST means even if you paid nary a cent in personal income tax you are still contributing 10% of practically everything you earned. Well done on the savings you managed.

I disagree with spindoc in that no one in this country should have to work past 40 hours to make ends meet or even to get a little ahead.

But I understand how hard it is as a part timer when you are trying to increase your hours with a second job. Since you will have claimed the tax free threshold on your first job any other part time work will have you at the higher rate and it will seem like dubious value.

It certainly sounds like the system doesn't have the proper tapering that will allow you to feel there is not real roadblock facing you working those extra hours. This is poor policy and you are right to highlight and complain about it.

Cont'

Cont'

On the broader question I once employed a bloke who was a good catholic with 7 young kids. For what I was able to pay him he would have been better off on the dole but still he fronted up every day. His wife really resented me for it and I think reasonably so. He certainly would have done better by his kids to have gone on to benefits and the family definitely went wanting as a consequence. But he stuck with it and was a partner in his own business within 5 years after I sold up.

My advice for what it is worth is to try and find full or part time work in a job that has prospects either through experience gained or promotion. This way even if things seem really tough you will at least have your sights set on a goal. Don't be satisfied with sh-tty dead end work because you will always resent it. If you can't see a path forward then look for something else.

And please don't take our sanctimonious resident blowhard Hasbeen to heart. He recently claimed to be 'paying his way' with his medical bills but it turned out he was 'on the teat' like so many others. Plus if he really did own his own business there is no way in the world he wouldn't have been diving to avoid as much tax as he could.

Finally congratulations on fighting for custody of your disabled son. I certainly don't know all the circumstances but there are a hell of a lot of fathers I know who ,given your financial situation, would have taken an easier path.

All the best.

Hi there SEANW...

Sean my friend, you've done very well to come on to this Forum and carefully articulate your difficulties to a group of absolute strangers. And it does take more than a modicum of courage, particularly as you're not entirely sure what sort of response you might receive from the other contributors hereon ?

Like the others here, I do empathize with the unsatisfactory vocational and domiciliary quandary, that you and your small family find yourselves ? I guess it would give you cold comfort, but at least you're receiving 'some' governments assistance in sustaining your small family unit, in the short to medium term ?

Is there any prospect of finding additional casual or part-time work to supplement your meagre income ? I (think) I understand your ambivalence being on benefits ? Your only wish is to be fully independent from 'Centre Link' with their prevalence for rules and regulations ? A case of a good man wishing to preserve his self-respect and personal esteem.

Regrettably, the only piece of advice I can offer Sean, is to 'try' and search for some additional work. Work of a kind that you'll find more fulfilling, and less distasteful ? On a positive note, I've this sense, despite your innumerable difficulties, you're a man of character, and a man of quiet strength. And though you're having a tough time of it lately, you'll most assuredly prevail. Sooner rather than later I would've thought ! Good luck mate !

seanw is unhappy.

On happiness,

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/04/17/down-in-the-dumps-garbage-pickers-with-a-happy-life/

The first action should be to be grateful, not in a superficial way, for what we have and the world around us.

Sit down with the missus, or alone if necessary and go through what is good. Keep at it and build the list.

Be present in the moment and give earnest, grateful thanks every day, to life. What does it take, 5-10 mins for The Box (which will do your head in if you take any notice of it).

To some that might seem a frivolous, time-wasting thing to do, to be really and truly grateful. It isn't though. It makes a world of difference.

I would like to thank all for the input.
Housoes has a lot to explain.
The job i have i walk ave 25kms per day. I do have a veggie garden, 60 lettuce ready in 6 weeks, also 9 chickens. I have been seeking extra work mowing lawns, as i have no problem building a lawnmower from scrap parts. My missus mows lawns now, well only 3. The 23 yr old is doing bricklaying apprentiship. The disabled 17 yr old is looking for work as a labourer, he is great.
I will not work for cash, everything legit. honesty is the best policy.
Live in the illawarra. 45yrs old.
I hope this is the correct way to respond.
thanks again

seanw,

Yes, it is the correct way to respond.

Now, how to get you into some new skills training is the problem eg light machinery operator. Your walking job doesn't sound as though there is any way up from it.

Any particular interests/passions you have that you have always wanted to have a shot at but haven't got around to? Maybe light machinery operation or something? Anyone you can go to to get advice?

Hi again SEANW...

Indeed a great response. You sound as if you're not idly standing by and allowing the grass to grow beneath your feet ! You seem to have a very industrious streak within you my friend, and good on you for that ! So I'm sure everyone here, will want to wish you all the luck in the world, in your strong desire to better yourself, not only for your own benefit, but for the long term welfare of your family. Good luck to you Sean !

Not clear if you won the custody case and if it was over the disabled kid. If it was you should get child support. If not you should be paying child support and THAT is a total disincentive for working.

But you will be getting a good family allowance for the kid I take it?

oooops sorry, I had only read to bottom of page 1 [drat the way this forum is set up] and you went on to explain later - so ignore last post

I am sorry for your situation as well, as anyone would be. this topic has many ideas: immigration; poor education; religious Darwinism; being punished for poor personal planning; simply watching too much sports, not spending time to create new needed employment skills; spending time with friends and parents whom have similar concerns. my suggestions are to think more about how skilled work is carried out; improve verbal communication skills by listening to intelligent speaking media programs hopefully picking up subconscious behaviours and phrases. don't be scared of being a nerd. take up computer repairing hobbies. read a book on accounting if only to work out what the book was trying to communicate. my favourite suggestion is to avoid media political readings and talk fests, political conversations having no skilled thinking. Avoid making emotional decisions quickly, instead take the time to slowly consider what you're doing with long term planning considerations. to me education is more a natural selection employment for truck drivers employment, slowing better wage employment with bad thinking skills, which if realised can be self-corrected.

Gday. Would like to thank you all again.
Wish I had your eloquent power of speech.
I have 4 stepkids, yes I won the custody dispute (dont really see her ex made it too hard).
I work really hard. I worked in the mines for 10 years commercial fishing 10 yrs, payed heaps of tax, I just want to teach my stepkids to have a strong work ethic. Seems to be working.