AJ Philips

Yes I know the feel on saying points over and over again...So what we can conclude to the findings, that God, law, doesn't work and I find that....Humans work in conventional means of just locking them up to the point of where we are as humans, we can all go back to animals. Even the word "human" tells a lot about ourselves even if we don't see it.

Each country has its laws....I don't always agree with them, but we come from a long line of people that have tried many ways from turning the ape into something less primitive, and I myself are at a loss to help in anyway.

I can only be a good person, cause I want to be, and being that person I am, I can only share it with others.

Tally

Again Thank You for your various contributions to
my discussion.

I have nothing more to say. I've said it all.
And I don't care to go on repeating the facts.
Except to leave you with
this final link from the Jakarta Post which tells us
the realities concerning the death penalty
and drug trafficking in Indonesia:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/12/10/death-penalty-does-not-deter-drug-traffickers.html

Dear o sung wu,

J. Edgar Hoover was a very mixed bag. He had little regard for civil liberties, had an unreasonable hold on power supposedly having a lot of dirt on various public officials which he held over their heads, and a complicated connection with organised crime. He was a publicity hound who could be vindictive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover tells about him.

In a democratic society policemen and military men should have respect for civil authority and should not be controlling figures in their own right.

I have the impression that you are a decent person who has been conscientious in your profession.

Fox,

Included in the facts you say you don't want to keep repeating you might include some facts about the possible 900,000 victims and families of the 'smack' those convicted drug traffickers were planning to release in Australia.

You might also have a talk with the anguished parents, police and authorities dealing with young people who have become addicts overnight because of drug gangs.

There was a relatively recent report in a newspaper that revealed the fact too that drug traffickers are deal with very leniently by Australian courts and more so in some States. They are recycled quickly through the 'higher education' (sic) of gaol, to re-offend soon after with the benefit of their additional skills and contacts.

While theoretically and generalising about all crimes it may well be that increased penalties may not be more effective in deterring some criminals and the ideal is swift detection, there are political parties and lobbyists who refuse to build up police forces and give them the technology, skills and inter-jurisdictional cooperation they require to do their job effectively. Police are also emphatic that courts are too lenient and maximum sentences are rarely almost never served. Well publicised rape+murders prove that point, but the media could say the same with bells on regarding drug gangs.

As well, the federal government(s) should be held accountable for not adequately treating the risks of importing toxic political systems and cultural traditions of violence and crime, particularly criminal gangs, through soft immigration policies and lapses in policy and screening.

While some here have attempted to excuse drug traffickers by claiming that drugs are available in Indonesia and elsewhere, those drugs are catering to a market. Drug traffickers are making millions out of developing the Australian market, resulting in a problem that is now well out of control.

What about the victims and their families? Forgotten.

otb,

Once again as usual you've put your own
interpretation of what is being said.
I suggest that you go back and read my
posts. I am not excusing drug traffickers
by any stretch of the imagination or
condoning their behaviour, neither am I against
punihsment of crimes. We are discussing
why the death penalty is not a deterrent -
especially in Indonesia. The Jakarta Post
explains it quite well - if you are interested.

Criminologists have pointed out that the best
deterrence is not necessarily the most severe
punishment; rather the best deterrence is one
that is swift and certain. If punishment follows soon
after the crime, and if there is little doubt
that it will follow, the crime rate according
to criminologists - will be low, but if
people think they may escape punishment
indefinitely, than the sanctions will have a
much less deterrent effect.

Anyway - read the link I gave from the Jakarta
Post - it explains the situation in Indonesia
rather well.

yep the dogma is that the death penalty is not a deterrent. Absolute nonsense although no doubt countless studies to back up the dogma. It defies commonsense and logic but then again the 'experts'say so. By all means oppose the death penalty but don't perpetuate the lie that its not a deterrent.